Will Pearl Jam join Neil Young in leaving Spotify?

pjl44

vant0037 said:

Conspiracies about GMOs and conspiracies about a deadly disease are very different.  If Neil is as irrelevant as some here say he is and Rogan is as relevant as his listenership would indicate, then we all should agree that Neil’s lunacy about the former is far less dangerous than Rogan’s lunacy about the latter. 

Neil’s move is less about being “bigger” than Rogan and more about not wanting to be associated with a platform that features Rogan.  Why is that a hard thing to tolerate?

Daily Beast made the case for drawing a line from anti-GMO nuttiness like Neil's to anti-vax nuttiness

https://www.thedailybeast.com/neil-youngs-long-record-of-spreading-scientific-misinformation

Tim Simmons

If we say NY is wrong about GMOs but right for not wanting to be associated with anti vax rhetoric, can we move on from that whataboutism? 

musicismylife78

musicismylife78 said:

LGBTQ Researcher & Joe Rogan watchdog at

@mmfa

. He/Him. Opinions dancing on my own. Employed by Media Matters

----
Seems like someone open to hearing Joe and differing points of view and is totally unbiased and plays it right down the middle!

Tim Simmons

The heart of it is this: Neither Neil Young or Spotify are gonna hurt from this arrangement.


But what it comes down to is, do we want to say, "yeah some corporation can to pay a dude tons of money to talk out of his ass (some legit, some not)" or do we want to compensate artists for their art that is the backbone of our corporation? 
 

vant0037

Tim Simmons said:

If we say NY is wrong about GMOs but right for not wanting to be associated with anti vax rhetoric, can we move on from that whataboutism? 

Right.  Whether Neil is right or wrong on GMOs (I happen to think he’s wrong; Norman Borlaug and millions of starving Africans would like a word, Mr. Young), is not the question.  The question is why Neil distancing himself from a platform that allows Joe Rogan to repeatedly feature to fringe voices and conspiracists is such a big deal for some people.  Is he not allowed to do that?  I’ve heard people casually throw around “free speech”; did Spotify remove Joe Rogan?

It may be true that Neil was/is wrong about GMOs.  That doesn’t mean him taking a stand against what Joe Rogan is doing is wrong or dumb or “won’t make a difference.”  There’s a Minor Threat song that talks about this I think. Haha!

drakeheuer14

Sure he has a nice deal with Spotify, but I don’t inherently think oh man Joe Rogans platform! It’s kind of funny that Neil does

patkelly12

"Misinformation is ok when our guy does it." - The Cuckold Motto.

vant0037

Joe Rogan is popular because he makes white dudes feel like they are open-minded because they listen to another white dude ask open-ended questions of other white dudes, many of whom conveniently dabble in pseudoscience or anti-establishment type views.  Speaking from anecdotes of course because the only listeners of Joe Rogan I personally know are white dudes! That’s a joke everyone.  Calm down. Keep reading.

I have no issue with Joe Rogan. Frankly, he seems like he’s probably actually a nice guy, and to hear his friends tell it, he probably is!

But his type of “inquiry” into matters of importance is to let fringe voices talk, while never engaging in the actual work it takes to dispute, refute or worse - prove! - a position the guest or Rogan himself end up taking.  He just plays the privileged role of being a guy asking questions while never having to really defend the places those questions lead.  It’s the type of intellectual laziness that has real life consequences.

Full disclosure: my mom had an aneurysm in November.  Ambulance ride.  Unconscious. The whole deal.  Never saw the inside of an emergency room.  Was triaged in a hospital cafeteria because all the rooms at the inn were full of COVID patients.

Take two small but very reasonable leaps with me: many people have refused a vaccine that protects them from hospitalization because a once-marginalized worldview like anti-vax beliefs are fostered, allowed to grow and in many cases promoted by people like Joe Rogan.  What do you end up with?  Hospitals needlessly full of patients with a preventable situation, preventing other otherwise healthy people from getting critical care when they need it most. “Otherwise healthy” means my mom lived.  Many might not have been so lucky.

Joe Rogan can say whatever he wants and host whoever he wants. But with speech comes responsibility and consequences.  Some people like Neil Young - and me - will choose to distance ourselves from him until he uses his platform more responsibly.

Will either “consequence” matter to Rogan or his defenders?  Nah. But that was never the point anyway.

cp3iverson

Don’t care one bit about Neil.  Don’t care one bit about Joe. 

Spotify is easily the best service though.  I had Apple Music and Amazon for years.   Spotify blows them away. Most importantly their random styled playlists make sense and are so good.  In the last thirty minutes I’ve heard Cocteau Twins into The Lemonheads into Frank Black into Buffalo Tom into Dino Jr. and now Catherine Wheel.  

Tim Simmons

But they don’t have HD audio and they pay the writers and artists shit. So is interface that big of a draw? 

cp3iverson

Tim Simmons said:

But they don’t have HD audio and they pay the writers and artists shit. So is interface that big of a draw? 

HD audio is a big draw to audiophiles but just like SACDs and AAA vinyl it isn’t exactly sought after by the general public listening through their iPhones, cars, or google nests.   

I’ll take the service that has these algorithms.  

Go Beavers

vant0037 said:

Joe Rogan is popular because he makes white dudes feel like they are open-minded because they listen to another white dude ask open-ended questions of other white dudes, many of whom conveniently dabble in pseudoscience or anti-establishment type views.  Speaking from anecdotes of course because the only listeners of Joe Rogan I personally know are white dudes! That’s a joke everyone.  Calm down. Keep reading.

I have no issue with Joe Rogan. Frankly, he seems like he’s probably actually a nice guy, and to hear his friends tell it, he probably is!

But his type of “inquiry” into matters of importance is to let fringe voices talk, while never engaging in the actual work it takes to dispute, refute or worse - prove! - a position the guest or Rogan himself end up taking.  He just plays the privileged role of being a guy asking questions while never having to really defend the places those questions lead.  It’s the type of intellectual laziness that has real life consequences.

Full disclosure: my mom had an aneurysm in November.  Ambulance ride.  Unconscious. The whole deal.  Never saw the inside of an emergency room.  Was triaged in a hospital cafeteria because all the rooms at the inn were full of COVID patients.

Take two small but very reasonable leaps with me: many people have refused a vaccine that protects them from hospitalization because a once-marginalized worldview like anti-vax beliefs are fostered, allowed to grow and in many cases promoted by people like Joe Rogan.  What do you end up with?  Hospitals needlessly full of patients with a preventable situation, preventing other otherwise healthy people from getting critical care when they need it most. “Otherwise healthy” means my mom lived.  Many might not have been so lucky.

Joe Rogan can say whatever he wants and host whoever he wants. But with speech comes responsibility and consequences.  Some people like Neil Young - and me - will choose to distance ourselves from him until he uses his platform more responsibly.

Will either “consequence” matter to Rogan or his defenders?  Nah. But that was never the point anyway.

And somehow asking questions is misconstrued as critical thinking. They're two different things obviously, although critical thinking requires asking questions so maybe that's how some people see them as the same?

JT167846

Didn't he have a show called "Joe Rogan Questions Everything"?

Yefa

https://thegrio.com/2022/01/21/the-problem-with-joe-rogan-and-white-boys/amp/

3days

Neil Young has a right to speak his mind, and to vote with his feet. I hope other artists join him.

Tim Simmons

vant0037 said:

Joe Rogan is popular because he makes white dudes feel like they are open-minded because they listen to another white dude ask open-ended questions of other white dudes, many of whom conveniently dabble in pseudoscience or anti-establishment type views.  Speaking from anecdotes of course because the only listeners of Joe Rogan I personally know are white dudes! That’s a joke everyone.  Calm down. Keep reading.

I have no issue with Joe Rogan. Frankly, he seems like he’s probably actually a nice guy, and to hear his friends tell it, he probably is!

But his type of “inquiry” into matters of importance is to let fringe voices talk, while never engaging in the actual work it takes to dispute, refute or worse - prove! - a position the guest or Rogan himself end up taking.  He just plays the privileged role of being a guy asking questions while never having to really defend the places those questions lead.  It’s the type of intellectual laziness that has real life consequences.

Full disclosure: my mom had an aneurysm in November.  Ambulance ride.  Unconscious. The whole deal.  Never saw the inside of an emergency room.  Was triaged in a hospital cafeteria because all the rooms at the inn were full of COVID patients.

Take two small but very reasonable leaps with me: many people have refused a vaccine that protects them from hospitalization because a once-marginalized worldview like anti-vax beliefs are fostered, allowed to grow and in many cases promoted by people like Joe Rogan.  What do you end up with?  Hospitals needlessly full of patients with a preventable situation, preventing other otherwise healthy people from getting critical care when they need it most. “Otherwise healthy” means my mom lived.  Many might not have been so lucky.

Joe Rogan can say whatever he wants and host whoever he wants. But with speech comes responsibility and consequences.  Some people like Neil Young - and me - will choose to distance ourselves from him until he uses his platform more responsibly.

Will either “consequence” matter to Rogan or his defenders?  Nah. But that was never the point anyway.

I’m sorry about your mom. I hope everything turned out well. 

pjl44

Tim Simmons said:

If we say NY is wrong about GMOs but right for not wanting to be associated with anti vax rhetoric, can we move on from that whataboutism? 

"Hey buddy, you specifically are a hypocrite" is not whataboutism

on2legs

It is possible that Neil is wrong on GMO’s and right about Rogan.  

pjl44

on2legs said:

It is possible that Neil is wrong on GMO’s and right about Rogan.  

Depending on your viewpoint, absolutely. Although I'm sure you could find people who think he's right about GMOs and wrong about Rogan, too.

Edit: I'll bet you could find A LOT of that latter profile at the DC RFK Jr rally last Sunday

eddiec

I just hope Neil tours Europe this summer.

I don't listen to PJ on Spotify so if they left I wouldn't care. (I do use it for other artists.)

Joe Rogan is the only person who's ever interviewed Mike Tyson and made it boring.