Viruses / Vaccines 2

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Doesn’t anyone talk to their doctor anymore? It’s on the patient to ask their doctor what the benefits are, potential drawbacks and side effects and whether there are alternatives. At the end of that conversation you can deny the prescription. Unless you’re incapacitated or unable to advocate for yourself. Then you better have an advocate you can trust to ask on your behalf. Second opinions are still a thing too.

yes, but all too often you have a doctor with a god complex who is somewhat intimidating and doesn't feel the need to explain anything, no matter how many follow up questions you ask. I was literally at the doctor yesterday morning and I kept asking follow ups to his seemingly inane "non-diagnoses"  ("ees no problem, you fine. no fever? ees good, come back in one week if not better") and he just kept smiling at me like I was a child. 

sometimes it's like a whirlwind and you find yourself shuffled out the door with a piece of paper in your hand and you wonder what just happened. I'll be the first to admit that I'm the type that it takes me time to process things, and sometimes, by the time it's processed and I have the questions in my head, I'm halfway home. 

Did you get a lollipop? If not, you should have asked for one, if just to see their reaction. When you get the script filled, do you ask the pharmacist any questions? They always ask me if I have any questions and I usually don't because I asked the doctor who prescribed it but if I forgot the answer or am still unsure, I ask the pharmacist. Sucks to have folks in-line behind you boring holes in your back but oh well, my money is just as green as theirs and my health and time just as valuable.

it's funny, the last time I had a script filled, there was a few questions I had that I thought of after I left my doctor's office, and so I asked the pharamacist. She was equally as uninterested as my doctor usually is (my wife later confirmed she's had the same experience with the same pharamacist). So I said "fuck it" and didn't use it. 

I like my Dr but yeah they move you in and out so fast it's hard to get much comfort from their advice. 

And they are always just typing shit...I get that they are documenting everything but it's like talking to someone who is on their phone all the time

HughFreakingDillon

agreed. type that shit up after I leave. when I'm there, eyes up. 

Halifax2TheMax

HughFreakingDillon said:

agreed. type that shit up after I leave. when I'm there, eyes up. 

That's what she's thinking too.

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

agreed. type that shit up after I leave. when I'm there, eyes up. 

YEah they used to go to a dictation machine AFTER your appt and make notes...now it's all real time.

Plus their system asks them 100 questions that they have to answer for malpractice purposes I'm sure

hedonist

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

agreed. type that shit up after I leave. when I'm there, eyes up. 

That's what she's thinking too.

😂

I’m fortunate in that my docs, while notorious for being late, spend as much time as needed with me, and are always willing to listen to and address any of my concerns.

I don’t know if it’s a Cedars Sinai thing or I just lucked out. Probably a bit of both. 

what dreams

Not sure why the question was asked in the negative, "Doesn't anyone talk to their doctor anymore?" as if that is what actually happened in my case or the other poster's regarding the Paxlovid. In my case, I was in a complete Covid stupor and just wanted to get off the damned computer as fast as I could and go back to sleep. I only called the doctor to begin with because that's what the CDC protocol said to do. I also already knew, as a "mild case," that the only thing I should be doing is taking some Tylenol, drinking my fluids, and resting while monitoring my O2 and heart rate (which by the way, got quite high during the fever stage and I learned that's normal). 

Over the past five years, I've had quite the experience as an advocate while caring for my mom. I'm pretty sure that as soon as they saw us coming, they thought, "oh shit, here she is again." The last, most egregious fight I had to fight was for hospice care. I knew, as someone who spent 24 hours a day with her and completely in charge of her health, that every sign pointed to my mom's imminent death from heart disease. I brought up hospice as an option last December 16, and in her very narrow view of my mom's overall condition, the cardiologist said, "oh no, we're not at that stage yet." I disagreed -- strongly -- my mom got upset, the conversation ended with no hospice ordered -- and sure enough, my mom was dead on January 14, far sooner than the 6 month threshhold required for hospice. The last month of her life was miserable and she got no pain relief -- the only condition the doctors would *not* medicate her for. They were happy enough to over-prescribe 9 other pills for her heart and diabetes (and my mom was too scared to not take any of it), but when it came to the debilitating pain she was in, the answer was always "the benefits don't outweigh the risks." 

I could write a whole book about the patient experience based on 5 years in and out of doctor's offices and hospitals and nursing homes with my mom. The short version is stay as healthy as you can for as long as you can, because if your disease does not kill you, the treatment for it surely will.

hedonist

what dreams said:

Not sure why the question was asked in the negative, "Doesn't anyone talk to their doctor anymore?" as if that is what actually happened in my case or the other poster's regarding the Paxlovid. In my case, I was in a complete Covid stupor and just wanted to get off the damned computer as fast as I could and go back to sleep. I only called the doctor to begin with because that's what the CDC protocol said to do. I also already knew, as a "mild case," that the only thing I should be doing is taking some Tylenol, drinking my fluids, and resting while monitoring my O2 and heart rate (which by the way, got quite high during the fever stage and I learned that's normal). 

Over the past five years, I've had quite the experience as an advocate while caring for my mom. I'm pretty sure that as soon as they saw us coming, they thought, "oh shit, here she is again." The last, most egregious fight I had to fight was for hospice care. I knew, as someone who spent 24 hours a day with her and completely in charge of her health, that every sign pointed to my mom's imminent death from heart disease. I brought up hospice as an option last December 16, and in her very narrow view of my mom's overall condition, the cardiologist said, "oh no, we're not at that stage yet." I disagreed -- strongly -- my mom got upset, the conversation ended with no hospice ordered -- and sure enough, my mom was dead on January 14, far sooner than the 6 month threshhold required for hospice. The last month of her life was miserable and she got no pain relief -- the only condition the doctors would *not* medicate her for. They were happy enough to over-prescribe 9 other pills for her heart and diabetes (and my mom was too scared to not take any of it), but when it came to the debilitating pain she was in, the answer was always "the benefits don't outweigh the risks." 

I could write a whole book about the patient experience based on 5 years in and out of doctor's offices and hospitals and nursing homes with my mom. The short version is stay as healthy as you can for as long as you can, because if your disease does not kill you, the treatment for it surely will.

Damn, that’s just so sad — for both your mom and you. Something like that is a huge fear of mine. How do they not listen to, HEAR, their patients or their advocates? Makes my blood boil, because I guarantee there are many other instances like this. 

During his years with City of Hope, my father often referenced their philosophy (to paraphrase):  It makes no sense to heal the body, if in the process you destroy the soul.

Merkin Baller

It’s so f’ed… my father broke two vertebrae in his neck 10 years ago… had an amazing doctor operate on him, and was told he needed 4 hours of physical therapy a day to recover. The insurance company wanted to send him to a nursing home type rehab place claiming he was a senior citizen… the dude was in better shape than most 40 year olds… more importantly, that nursing home only offered 2 hours of rehab a day. 

Luckily my (then) fiancé’s friend is a nurse practitioner & her mom worked at Spaulding rehab, and they advised us on all the reasons he qualified for a program there, something the insurance company refuted. We pushed HARD and refused to let him go the nursing home and presented all the reasons our friends advised us on…. The hospital agreed with us, and the insurance company relented, sent him to Spaulding and he walked 30’ a week after breaking his neck & danced at my wedding 16 months later. 

Probably never would have happened if we didn’t advocate & let him go to that obviously less expensive nursing home. 

TJ25487

Always remember that all doctors are "Practicing Physicians" which means they haven't figured it out yet. 

dankind

TJ25487 said:

Always remember that all doctors are "Practicing Physicians" which means they haven't figured it out yet. 

So, they're human is what you're saying....

TJ25487

No that's not what I'm saying. 

Halifax2TheMax

You are the single greatest advocate for yourself, provided you’re capable. That said, you can’t control what or how the doctors you speak with react and recommend. Ultimately, the decision to take or not take their advice rests on you. Second opinions, finding new doctors and seeking recommendations from folks in the know or with previous experience with doctor’s offices, healthcare systems, etc. all play a part. My point being, asking yourself “why did the doctor prescribe this” just before you’re supposed to take it is too late in the process and isn’t on the doctor, it’s on you.

I don’t say this to be glib or combative as I’ve been through the healthcare wringer with hospice, children’s hospital ERs, cancer, major surgery, end of life, dementia, for family and friends, and know what it’s like. For the wealth of this nation, our healthcare sure can suck. Like everything transactional, it comes down to the people involved.

hedonist

TJ25487 said:

No that's not what I'm saying. 

But no one can have it all figured out. Mistakes and misdiagnoses are made. Plus, there are rarely, if ever, any guarantees when it comes to health matters.

I sure wish there were but it’s simply the nature of illnesses. 

what dreams

Yes, they are human -- with the same fallible ego that all the rest of us have to recognize in ourselves and stay open to alternatives. My chiropractor once shared with me that doctors treat "normal" as a numerical range, and completely ignore the fact that not every body presents within that range. They miss A LOT and they misdiagnose A LOT.

I had an epiphany about halfway through my caregiving role, which should have been so obvious beforehand  -- *medical* doctors are trained in *medicine.* It's what they do -- they spend most of their training learning how different medicines affect different "abnormalities" and then they look at their "if this, then that" algorithms and apply. Many of them have their favorite drugs, even if there might be a better drug suited for a specific individual. And in my research, I read that many doctors are so overwhelmed in their practice that they couldn't even tell you about all the side effects of a drug if you asked because there are too many drugs and too many side effects to keep track of. 

With the elderly in particular, polypharmacy is a huge problem not only because of side effects but because of the drug interactions, and many heart medicines in particular will actually cause another heart condition or make another heart condition worse! Elder care is a fucking disaster. At the end, after her final post-Xmas hospital visit, I wanted to get my mom into an out-of-network EXCELLENT rehab center that Medicare paid for prior to the pandemic. We had gone there four years ago after I yanked her out of a shit hole when I literally found a pair of someone else's pants soiled with shit in the wardrobe in my mom's room. I called this rehab center again early January and found out, as part of our wonderful pandemic response (/s), the government oh-so-quietly changed the Medicare rules and said if your "advantage" insurance company has a spot in a facility in their network, they will no longer cover care elsewhere. Total bullshit. We would have had to come up with $30,000 up front to put her in a place that wouldn't kill her. Instead she went into another shit hole Kaiser approved facility (don't get me started on Kaiser and their "leadership managed care"). She aspirated on medicine that her doctor would not split up, at my request, into separate doses because the pills were too large for her to swallow. In her case, the medicine LITERALLY killed her, and I'll never forgive the fucking doctor. Her hospital discharge papers said in print "aspiration risk, take precautions" and the doctor did not take precautions. "Do no harm" my ass.

cutz

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Doesn’t anyone talk to their doctor anymore? It’s on the patient to ask their doctor what the benefits are, potential drawbacks and side effects and whether there are alternatives. At the end of that conversation you can deny the prescription. Unless you’re incapacitated or unable to advocate for yourself. Then you better have an advocate you can trust to ask on your behalf. Second opinions are still a thing too.

yes, but all too often you have a doctor with a god complex who is somewhat intimidating and doesn't feel the need to explain anything, no matter how many follow up questions you ask. I was literally at the doctor yesterday morning and I kept asking follow ups to his seemingly inane "non-diagnoses"  ("ees no problem, you fine. no fever? ees good, come back in one week if not better") and he just kept smiling at me like I was a child. 

sometimes it's like a whirlwind and you find yourself shuffled out the door with a piece of paper in your hand and you wonder what just happened. I'll be the first to admit that I'm the type that it takes me time to process things, and sometimes, by the time it's processed and I have the questions in my head, I'm halfway home. 

Did you get a lollipop? If not, you should have asked for one, if just to see their reaction. When you get the script filled, do you ask the pharmacist any questions? They always ask me if I have any questions and I usually don't because I asked the doctor who prescribed it but if I forgot the answer or am still unsure, I ask the pharmacist. Sucks to have folks in-line behind you boring holes in your back but oh well, my money is just as green as theirs and my health and time just as valuable.

it's funny, the last time I had a script filled, there was a few questions I had that I thought of after I left my doctor's office, and so I asked the pharamacist. She was equally as uninterested as my doctor usually is (my wife later confirmed she's had the same experience with the same pharamacist). So I said "fuck it" and didn't use it. 

I like my Dr but yeah they move you in and out so fast it's hard to get much comfort from their advice. 

And they are always just typing shit...I get that they are documenting everything but it's like talking to someone who is on their phone all the time

Yeah, it seems like we have the appointment with the Laptop and not the DR.

GlowGirl

Ugh. Came home sick from Prague. Coughing, sneezing, and hoarse voice. I took two home Covid tests. Both negative. It is probably a summer cold. I am glad I took an extra day off work. The jet lag isn’t helping either. I got up at 4:30 this morning. It should be ok in a few days. 

lastexitlondon

Thats not cool.  I hope you recover  fast. Some people  here with the  b.a 5 variants have not tested pos for a couple  days of symptoms  odd. 

hedonist

Take care of yourself, GG! It seems like many folks I know get sick when flying to / from their destination. 

GlowGirl

lastexitlondon said:

Thats not cool.  I hope you recover  fast. Some people  here with the  b.a 5 variants have not tested pos for a couple  days of symptoms  odd. 

Thanks. It’s hard to trust these tests. If I don’t feel better in a few days I will get the PCR test. It really does just feel like a cold. So whatever it is at least the symptoms are not severe. 

GlowGirl

hedonist said:

Take care of yourself, GG! It seems like many folks I know get sick when flying to / from their destination. 

Thanks. Yeah traveling can be hard on the system. Plus I was running around there a lot. Didn’t get as much sleep as I probably should have. I hope you are doing ok as well. How are you feeling?