Viruses / Vaccines 2

curmudgeoness

bootlegger10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

bootlegger10 said:

Tim Simmons said:

My personal take is, let the scientists do their thing. If you aren't a scientist, stfu. 

I tend to agree with this statement, but scientists are people, and people are corruptible.  Scientists give me better odds though.  That said, while I eat McDonalds and thus am a hypocrite, I'm not going to take a shot or a pill unless it is critical to my health.  

I just can’t buy the fact that 99.9% of the world’s scientists/experts/etc were all bought and/or stupid and/or sheep. But the minuscule few are the ones to trust. 

Many advanced nations treated COVID vaccines differently.  The U.S. recommended vaccines for kids while other nations did not (Norway for example).  So are we trust US scientists?  Norwegian scientists?  The answer I think is to make a reasonable decision yourself.  For me, if my kid had a very low chance of being sick from Covid, I am not going to vaccinate.   Measles?  Polio?  Hell yeah I would vaccinate as those things are very likely to do harm.  

Wasn’t J&J’s vaccine pulled as unsafe?  

The FDA allows all sorts of harmful stuff to be included in our food in the U.S.  Europe has banned many of these substances.  Why?  Lobbyists in the US is my thought.  Money and power can corrupt anyone.

I think discussing the benefits or dis/advantages of certain vaccines for certain groups, like this ^^^ is worthwhile. I view it as a very different conversation than ones involving conspiracy theories. For some people, there might be little or no added benefit from getting a vaccine (e.g., if you are on anti-rejection drugs due to an organ transplant, you might well not develop any antibodies from the vaccine). For others, the vaccine could make a huge difference (example from my life: for ~25 years, every time I got a cold I developed pneumonia and was sick and wheezing for months. In my mid-40s I pushed for, and received, the pneumonia vaccine. It changed my life!).

mrussel1

bootlegger10 said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Tim Simmons said:

My personal take is, let the scientists do their thing. If you aren't a scientist, stfu. 

I tend to agree with this statement, but scientists are people, and people are corruptible.  Scientists give me better odds though.  That said, while I eat McDonalds and thus am a hypocrite, I'm not going to take a shot or a pill unless it is critical to my health.  

So when the unit doesn't work as well as it used to, you'll just retire from that activity?

Haha.  I eat McDonalds because it tastes good despite the harmful effects.  The blue pill provides a welcome effect.  Both examples have pros and cons.  Unless I think I would get really sick from Covid (I don’t), the vaccine doesn’t give me a big benefit.

But it is not critical to your health.  Interestingly, as you get older it may be very much to your advantage to take the vax, especially if you start acquiring age related diseases.  

mickeyrat

curmudgeoness said:

bootlegger10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

bootlegger10 said:

Tim Simmons said:

My personal take is, let the scientists do their thing. If you aren't a scientist, stfu. 

I tend to agree with this statement, but scientists are people, and people are corruptible.  Scientists give me better odds though.  That said, while I eat McDonalds and thus am a hypocrite, I'm not going to take a shot or a pill unless it is critical to my health.  

I just can’t buy the fact that 99.9% of the world’s scientists/experts/etc were all bought and/or stupid and/or sheep. But the minuscule few are the ones to trust. 

Many advanced nations treated COVID vaccines differently.  The U.S. recommended vaccines for kids while other nations did not (Norway for example).  So are we trust US scientists?  Norwegian scientists?  The answer I think is to make a reasonable decision yourself.  For me, if my kid had a very low chance of being sick from Covid, I am not going to vaccinate.   Measles?  Polio?  Hell yeah I would vaccinate as those things are very likely to do harm.  

Wasn’t J&J’s vaccine pulled as unsafe?  

The FDA allows all sorts of harmful stuff to be included in our food in the U.S.  Europe has banned many of these substances.  Why?  Lobbyists in the US is my thought.  Money and power can corrupt anyone.

I think discussing the benefits or dis/advantages of certain vaccines for certain groups, like this ^^^ is worthwhile. I view it as a very different conversation than ones involving conspiracy theories. For some people, there might be little or no added benefit from getting a vaccine (e.g., if you are on anti-rejection drugs due to an organ transplant, you might well not develop any antibodies from the vaccine). For others, the vaccine could make a huge difference (example from my life: for ~25 years, every time I got a cold I developed pneumonia and was sick and wheezing for months. In my mid-40s I pushed for, and received, the pneumonia vaccine. It changed my life!).

this year my doc suggested this one.  considering it.

in 88 , in navy boot camp, they gave us I dont know what. one for sure was flu vax. got knocked down for a few days. another guy laid up for a week. he had to get set back to another boot company a week behind us. from then until 2020 I never got vax again. then Jan 3 2020 I got whatever was around at that time , nasty shit. felt like I eanted to die. lungs and ribs hurt until mid march.

you bet your ass I get the flu vax now and have since fall 2020....will continue with covid vax as my job has me around other drivers from different parts of the midwest plus am overweight, high bp and apnea.

will discuss the pneumonia vax with my nurse wife....

AW124797

curmudgeoness said:

Being immunocompromised is not a lifestyle choice, and suggesting that real health issues are phobias is callous, trollish, and grossly lacking in empathy.

Your argument also, more broadly, suggests that we should just capitulate to bullies -- wouldn't it be easier to just let the GA line cutters be on the rail in front of Mike? Isn't it so much easier to just let the flippers take entire boxes of posters at the merch tent? Instead of traffic laws, wouldn't it be easier to just yield right of way to the biggest vehicles? And if a few children, or a few thousand children, get mowed down by big-ass trucks in a hurry, well, isn't it easier to just tell kids to stay out of crosswalks if they're so scared of being hit by a truck?

Why do we even live in social groups? We do so to protect the more vulnerable among us -- children, the elderly, those who are sick or injured. This is such a fundamental concept that it boggles my mind that I need to spell it out.

Don't expect empathy if in 2025, you're still suggesting isolation and mass forced vaccinations for common cold illness with shots that are not safe nor effective. 

Tim Simmons

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

AW124797

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

AW124797

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

As safe and effective as J&J and AstraZeneca? Why did they get pulled? 

Tim Simmons

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Tim Simmons

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

As safe and effective as J&J and AstraZeneca? Why did they get pulled? 

Nah. The mRNA ones. 

HughFreakingDillon

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Just look at all the damage that moronic anti vaxxers are causing. Seen the most recent measles outbreak data lately? 

Halifax2TheMax

HughFreakingDillon said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Just look at all the damage that moronic anti vaxxers are causing. Seen the most recent measles outbreak data lately? 

Or how’s about another strain spreading from Asia? Darwinism is a thang.

mickeyrat

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Just look at all the damage that moronic anti vaxxers are causing. Seen the most recent measles outbreak data lately? 

Or how’s about another strain spreading from Asia? Darwinism is a thang.

saw a forbes link on adbook just today. dont subscribe so didnt post but I do a variant is emerged in China and supposedly has already made its way here

AW124797

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Let's try again. What is Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -  ?

AW124797

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

As safe and effective as J&J and AstraZeneca? Why did they get pulled? 

Nah. The mRNA ones. 

Right. Out of 4 main vaccines, 2 ended up on the safer side. Your 50% odds in 2021 were not bad at all. 

AW124797

HughFreakingDillon said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Just look at all the damage that moronic anti vaxxers are causing. Seen the most recent measles outbreak data lately? 

I read left and right news everyday and i haven't seen. Honestly. Definitely not going to Google it. 

AW124797

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Just look at all the damage that moronic anti vaxxers are causing. Seen the most recent measles outbreak data lately? 

Or how’s about another strain spreading from Asia? Darwinism is a thang.

Cyberchondria is a thang, too.

Halifax2TheMax

AW124797 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Just look at all the damage that moronic anti vaxxers are causing. Seen the most recent measles outbreak data lately? 

Or how’s about another strain spreading from Asia? Darwinism is a thang.

Cyberchondria is a thang, too.

Mmmmmmm, no. That you?

curmudgeoness

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Let's try again. What is Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -  ?

Seriously, it is a response to "Why can't the people worried about getting sick just stay in their basements?" You asked a -- presumed -- hypothetical, and I am asking *you* why we should cater to bullies and jackasses. Why are *you* outraged by the suggestion that the standard you recommended for others, whom you labeled "phobic," could just as easily be flipped and applied to you? That's not logically consistent. Why is it okay to isolate those afraid of catching a serious disease (by the way -- do you not know anyone with health problems?!? Many already curtail their movements out of necessity!) but outrageous and insane to suggest, instead, isolating people who are intent on spreading disease? If you're entertaining the former solution, you must also consider the advantages of the latter, otherwise you are merely suggesting privileging people who share your worldview over others.

Just because *you* thought Covid was like a "common cold" (which, again, before Prevnar, a common cold stayed with me for months...) even though over a million people in the US died from it -- doesn't mean that it was "just a cold" for everyone else. And -- you are aware that quarantine and isolation are not new concepts developed by the libs in 2020, aren't you? It's common freaking sense to limit the spread of disease, especially a new disease when information about mortality and long-term effects is not readily available (original estimates for Covid gave, I think, a 5% mortality rate; that's serious shit). I cannot wrap my head around outrage over very basic public health concepts that have been with us for, literally, thousands of years. You want to talk about how silly it was for California to close the beaches? I didn't like that, myself. Should blue states have found ways to get kids back in school sooner? Possibly, yes! But the idea that people should just be allowed to wantonly spread disease because ... reasons? That's a non-starter.

So, again: I sure would like to be on the rail in front of Mike at a show, but I don't see the point of camping out and waiting in line for hours and hours. Why can't I just push my way to the front? That's way more convenient for me; why should I have to inconvenience myself by spending my valuable time waiting in the GA line just because other people said that's how it's done? Based on what you're saying, it would be wrong for those poor fools who camped out for two days to yell at me and tell me to go to the back of the line, because if they're so worried about how other people are behaving, maybe they should just stay home. I don't think that tactic would be well received.

In a pandemic, availing oneself of vaccinations is a basic civic duty. Period. You do not have the right to endanger others. You also do not have the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, nor do you have the right to incite violence, or to use your AR for target practice in a residential area, or to drive the wrong way on the freeway because there's a backup and you're in a big hurry. I do love civil liberties, but all of the above actions infringe on the rights and freedoms of others, and that's not okay!

Finally: I spent nearly a year taking a dear elderly friend her groceries, until she was fully vaccinated against Covid. We spent a lot of time talking over those months, and one time she said "By the time you get to be my age, everyone has something wrong with them." Growing old is a privilege. I was at the Pittsburgh shows: much less smoky than the first shows I went to, far fewer drunks, nobody around me strung out on acid. We're all getting old/er. Perhaps you are the unusually lucky exception. Perhaps you have elite-level fitness, normal blood pressure and cholesterol, no history of smoking, no chronic diseases, no wonky family history. Perhaps. That's highly unlikely, but it's possible. If so, well, one of these days, that will change. Maybe it won't bother you if people around you react to your health problems with a shrug and "Sucks to be you, but I'm not changing what I'm doing just because you have XYZ." I don't know.

But I, personally, would rather live in a society where other people hold the door for an elderly person, or summon help for someone having a heart attack, or do really basic things to respect the well-being of others.  It sure would be *nice* if people stayed the hell at home when they have colds, and I had hoped that the pandemic would engender some empathy in others. But the fact that we're still having this debate five years later tells me that's not happening. That's fucking depressing, but here we are.

mickeyrat

curmudgeoness said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Let's try again. What is Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -  ?

Seriously, it is a response to "Why can't the people worried about getting sick just stay in their basements?" You asked a -- presumed -- hypothetical, and I am asking *you* why we should cater to bullies and jackasses. Why are *you* outraged by the suggestion that the standard you recommended for others, whom you labeled "phobic," could just as easily be flipped and applied to you? That's not logically consistent. Why is it okay to isolate those afraid of catching a serious disease (by the way -- do you not know anyone with health problems?!? Many already curtail their movements out of necessity!) but outrageous and insane to suggest, instead, isolating people who are intent on spreading disease? If you're entertaining the former solution, you must also consider the advantages of the latter, otherwise you are merely suggesting privileging people who share your worldview over others.

Just because *you* thought Covid was like a "common cold" (which, again, before Prevnar, a common cold stayed with me for months...) even though over a million people in the US died from it -- doesn't mean that it was "just a cold" for everyone else. And -- you are aware that quarantine and isolation are not new concepts developed by the libs in 2020, aren't you? It's common freaking sense to limit the spread of disease, especially a new disease when information about mortality and long-term effects is not readily available (original estimates for Covid gave, I think, a 5% mortality rate; that's serious shit). I cannot wrap my head around outrage over very basic public health concepts that have been with us for, literally, thousands of years. You want to talk about how silly it was for California to close the beaches? I didn't like that, myself. Should blue states have found ways to get kids back in school sooner? Possibly, yes! But the idea that people should just be allowed to wantonly spread disease because ... reasons? That's a non-starter.

So, again: I sure would like to be on the rail in front of Mike at a show, but I don't see the point of camping out and waiting in line for hours and hours. Why can't I just push my way to the front? That's way more convenient for me; why should I have to inconvenience myself by spending my valuable time waiting in the GA line just because other people said that's how it's done? Based on what you're saying, it would be wrong for those poor fools who camped out for two days to yell at me and tell me to go to the back of the line, because if they're so worried about how other people are behaving, maybe they should just stay home. I don't think that tactic would be well received.

In a pandemic, availing oneself of vaccinations is a basic civic duty. Period. You do not have the right to endanger others. You also do not have the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, nor do you have the right to incite violence, or to use your AR for target practice in a residential area, or to drive the wrong way on the freeway because there's a backup and you're in a big hurry. I do love civil liberties, but all of the above actions infringe on the rights and freedoms of others, and that's not okay!

Finally: I spent nearly a year taking a dear elderly friend her groceries, until she was fully vaccinated against Covid. We spent a lot of time talking over those months, and one time she said "By the time you get to be my age, everyone has something wrong with them." Growing old is a privilege. I was at the Pittsburgh shows: much less smoky than the first shows I went to, far fewer drunks, nobody around me strung out on acid. We're all getting old/er. Perhaps you are the unusually lucky exception. Perhaps you have elite-level fitness, normal blood pressure and cholesterol, no history of smoking, no chronic diseases, no wonky family history. Perhaps. That's highly unlikely, but it's possible. If so, well, one of these days, that will change. Maybe it won't bother you if people around you react to your health problems with a shrug and "Sucks to be you, but I'm not changing what I'm doing just because you have XYZ." I don't know.

But I, personally, would rather live in a society where other people hold the door for an elderly person, or summon help for someone having a heart attack, or do really basic things to respect the well-being of others.  It sure would be *nice* if people stayed the hell at home when they have colds, and I had hoped that the pandemic would engender some empathy in others. But the fact that we're still having this debate five years later tells me that's not happening. That's fucking depressing, but here we are.

Here, I think you dropped this...

🎤

Merkin Baller

curmudgeoness.- well said.