Viruses / Vaccines 2

BF25394

HughFreakingDillon said:

 

Now that covid has evolved to basically the common cold, I don’t bother with the boosters. 

This is not right. The common cold is almost never fatal. COVID-19 is still killing tens of thousands of Americans each year (about 45,000 died from COVID-19 in the U.S. in 2024). Data are still incomplete for the current season, but COVID-19 was also still deadlier than the flu during the 2023-24 season.

BF25394

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Tim Simmons said:

My personal take is, let the scientists do their thing. If you aren't a scientist, stfu. 

I tend to agree with this statement, but scientists are people, and people are corruptible.  Scientists give me better odds though.  That said, while I eat McDonalds and thus am a hypocrite, I'm not going to take a shot or a pill unless it is critical to my health.  

So when the unit doesn't work as well as it used to, you'll just retire from that activity?

Haha.  I eat McDonalds because it tastes good despite the harmful effects.  The blue pill provides a welcome effect.  Both examples have pros and cons.  Unless I think I would get really sick from Covid (I don’t), the vaccine doesn’t give me a big benefit.

But it is not critical to your health.  Interestingly, as you get older it may be very much to your advantage to take the vax, especially if you start acquiring age related diseases.  

McDonald's is also only harmful if you eat too much of it. It's not harmful to your health to have McDonald's occasionally.

BF25394

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Let's try again. What is Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -  ?

Pretty obviously a bit of rhetoric turning the fallacious logic of anti-vaxxers around on themselves.

BF25394

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

As safe and effective as J&J and AstraZeneca? Why did they get pulled? 

Nah. The mRNA ones. 

Right. Out of 4 main vaccines, 2 ended up on the safer side. Your 50% odds in 2021 were not bad at all. 

That's some creative math. The overwhelming number of vaccines administered in the U.S. were the Pfizer and ModeRNA vaccines. Saying they account for "50 percent" of vaccines is like saying that, since California and Nevada are two states, California accounts for "50 percent" of the people who reside in their combined area.

BF25394

curmudgeoness said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Let's try again. What is Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -  ?

Seriously, it is a response to "Why can't the people worried about getting sick just stay in their basements?" You asked a -- presumed -- hypothetical, and I am asking *you* why we should cater to bullies and jackasses. Why are *you* outraged by the suggestion that the standard you recommended for others, whom you labeled "phobic," could just as easily be flipped and applied to you? That's not logically consistent. Why is it okay to isolate those afraid of catching a serious disease (by the way -- do you not know anyone with health problems?!? Many already curtail their movements out of necessity!) but outrageous and insane to suggest, instead, isolating people who are intent on spreading disease? If you're entertaining the former solution, you must also consider the advantages of the latter, otherwise you are merely suggesting privileging people who share your worldview over others.

Just because *you* thought Covid was like a "common cold" (which, again, before Prevnar, a common cold stayed with me for months...) even though over a million people in the US died from it -- doesn't mean that it was "just a cold" for everyone else. And -- you are aware that quarantine and isolation are not new concepts developed by the libs in 2020, aren't you? It's common freaking sense to limit the spread of disease, especially a new disease when information about mortality and long-term effects is not readily available (original estimates for Covid gave, I think, a 5% mortality rate; that's serious shit). I cannot wrap my head around outrage over very basic public health concepts that have been with us for, literally, thousands of years. You want to talk about how silly it was for California to close the beaches? I didn't like that, myself. Should blue states have found ways to get kids back in school sooner? Possibly, yes! But the idea that people should just be allowed to wantonly spread disease because ... reasons? That's a non-starter.

So, again: I sure would like to be on the rail in front of Mike at a show, but I don't see the point of camping out and waiting in line for hours and hours. Why can't I just push my way to the front? That's way more convenient for me; why should I have to inconvenience myself by spending my valuable time waiting in the GA line just because other people said that's how it's done? Based on what you're saying, it would be wrong for those poor fools who camped out for two days to yell at me and tell me to go to the back of the line, because if they're so worried about how other people are behaving, maybe they should just stay home. I don't think that tactic would be well received.

In a pandemic, availing oneself of vaccinations is a basic civic duty. Period. You do not have the right to endanger others. You also do not have the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, nor do you have the right to incite violence, or to use your AR for target practice in a residential area, or to drive the wrong way on the freeway because there's a backup and you're in a big hurry. I do love civil liberties, but all of the above actions infringe on the rights and freedoms of others, and that's not okay!

Finally: I spent nearly a year taking a dear elderly friend her groceries, until she was fully vaccinated against Covid. We spent a lot of time talking over those months, and one time she said "By the time you get to be my age, everyone has something wrong with them." Growing old is a privilege. I was at the Pittsburgh shows: much less smoky than the first shows I went to, far fewer drunks, nobody around me strung out on acid. We're all getting old/er. Perhaps you are the unusually lucky exception. Perhaps you have elite-level fitness, normal blood pressure and cholesterol, no history of smoking, no chronic diseases, no wonky family history. Perhaps. That's highly unlikely, but it's possible. If so, well, one of these days, that will change. Maybe it won't bother you if people around you react to your health problems with a shrug and "Sucks to be you, but I'm not changing what I'm doing just because you have XYZ." I don't know.

But I, personally, would rather live in a society where other people hold the door for an elderly person, or summon help for someone having a heart attack, or do really basic things to respect the well-being of others.  It sure would be *nice* if people stayed the hell at home when they have colds, and I had hoped that the pandemic would engender some empathy in others. But the fact that we're still having this debate five years later tells me that's not happening. That's fucking depressing, but here we are.

Everything you say here*, as in all of your posts, is well-reasoned and well-argued. Unfortunately, as they say in Cool Hand Luke, "some men you just can't reach."

* One small point: you can shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater. What you cannot do is falsely shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater. If there's a fire in a crowded theater, and someone spots it, we want them alerting their fellow theatergoers.

BF25394

AW124797 said:

curmudgeoness said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Let's try again. What is Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -  ?

Seriously, it is a response to "Why can't the people worried about getting sick just stay in their basements?" You asked a -- presumed -- hypothetical, and I am asking *you* why we should cater to bullies and jackasses. Why are *you* outraged by the suggestion that the standard you recommended for others, whom you labeled "phobic," could just as easily be flipped and applied to you? That's not logically consistent. Why is it okay to isolate those afraid of catching a serious disease (by the way -- do you not know anyone with health problems?!? Many already curtail their movements out of necessity!) but outrageous and insane to suggest, instead, isolating people who are intent on spreading disease? If you're entertaining the former solution, you must also consider the advantages of the latter, otherwise you are merely suggesting privileging people who share your worldview over others.

Just because *you* thought Covid was like a "common cold" (which, again, before Prevnar, a common cold stayed with me for months...) even though over a million people in the US died from it -- doesn't mean that it was "just a cold" for everyone else. And -- you are aware that quarantine and isolation are not new concepts developed by the libs in 2020, aren't you? It's common freaking sense to limit the spread of disease, especially a new disease when information about mortality and long-term effects is not readily available (original estimates for Covid gave, I think, a 5% mortality rate; that's serious shit). I cannot wrap my head around outrage over very basic public health concepts that have been with us for, literally, thousands of years. You want to talk about how silly it was for California to close the beaches? I didn't like that, myself. Should blue states have found ways to get kids back in school sooner? Possibly, yes! But the idea that people should just be allowed to wantonly spread disease because ... reasons? That's a non-starter.

So, again: I sure would like to be on the rail in front of Mike at a show, but I don't see the point of camping out and waiting in line for hours and hours. Why can't I just push my way to the front? That's way more convenient for me; why should I have to inconvenience myself by spending my valuable time waiting in the GA line just because other people said that's how it's done? Based on what you're saying, it would be wrong for those poor fools who camped out for two days to yell at me and tell me to go to the back of the line, because if they're so worried about how other people are behaving, maybe they should just stay home. I don't think that tactic would be well received.

In a pandemic, availing oneself of vaccinations is a basic civic duty. Period. You do not have the right to endanger others. You also do not have the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, nor do you have the right to incite violence, or to use your AR for target practice in a residential area, or to drive the wrong way on the freeway because there's a backup and you're in a big hurry. I do love civil liberties, but all of the above actions infringe on the rights and freedoms of others, and that's not okay!

Finally: I spent nearly a year taking a dear elderly friend her groceries, until she was fully vaccinated against Covid. We spent a lot of time talking over those months, and one time she said "By the time you get to be my age, everyone has something wrong with them." Growing old is a privilege. I was at the Pittsburgh shows: much less smoky than the first shows I went to, far fewer drunks, nobody around me strung out on acid. We're all getting old/er. Perhaps you are the unusually lucky exception. Perhaps you have elite-level fitness, normal blood pressure and cholesterol, no history of smoking, no chronic diseases, no wonky family history. Perhaps. That's highly unlikely, but it's possible. If so, well, one of these days, that will change. Maybe it won't bother you if people around you react to your health problems with a shrug and "Sucks to be you, but I'm not changing what I'm doing just because you have XYZ." I don't know.

But I, personally, would rather live in a society where other people hold the door for an elderly person, or summon help for someone having a heart attack, or do really basic things to respect the well-being of others.  It sure would be *nice* if people stayed the hell at home when they have colds, and I had hoped that the pandemic would engender some empathy in others. But the fact that we're still having this debate five years later tells me that's not happening. That's fucking depressing, but here we are.

Jesus. You seem like a very nice person and I don't want to sound rude, but I'm not really interested in anecdotal/personal. We all have a story and you wouldn't be interested in mine as it doesn't fit your narrative. What really caught my eye is your isolation comments. Can you clarify in 1-3 sentences or with a simple yes or no, so it's very obvious for all confused here, if (now, in 2025, NOT 2021) you still support mandatory vaccinations for common cold and isolation of the unvaccinated. That's all that interests me.

There is no vaccine for the common cold. COVID-19 is not the common cold, and it will not be the common cold no matter how many times you disingenuously try to conflate the two.

AW124797

BF25394 said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

As safe and effective as J&J and AstraZeneca? Why did they get pulled? 

Nah. The mRNA ones. 

Right. Out of 4 main vaccines, 2 ended up on the safer side. Your 50% odds in 2021 were not bad at all. 

That's some creative math. The overwhelming number of vaccines administered in the U.S. were the Pfizer and ModeRNA vaccines. Saying they account for "50 percent" of vaccines is like saying that, since California and Nevada are two states, California accounts for "50 percent" of the people who reside in their combined area.

I like your spin on things here. Very creative. In Europe (2021) I was offered Pfizer, Moderna, J&J and AZ before the data on blood clots and myocarditis came out. 50% to make a bad choice. Hope that helps you. 

AW124797

BF25394 said:

AW124797 said:

curmudgeoness said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Let's try again. What is Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -  ?

Seriously, it is a response to "Why can't the people worried about getting sick just stay in their basements?" You asked a -- presumed -- hypothetical, and I am asking *you* why we should cater to bullies and jackasses. Why are *you* outraged by the suggestion that the standard you recommended for others, whom you labeled "phobic," could just as easily be flipped and applied to you? That's not logically consistent. Why is it okay to isolate those afraid of catching a serious disease (by the way -- do you not know anyone with health problems?!? Many already curtail their movements out of necessity!) but outrageous and insane to suggest, instead, isolating people who are intent on spreading disease? If you're entertaining the former solution, you must also consider the advantages of the latter, otherwise you are merely suggesting privileging people who share your worldview over others.

Just because *you* thought Covid was like a "common cold" (which, again, before Prevnar, a common cold stayed with me for months...) even though over a million people in the US died from it -- doesn't mean that it was "just a cold" for everyone else. And -- you are aware that quarantine and isolation are not new concepts developed by the libs in 2020, aren't you? It's common freaking sense to limit the spread of disease, especially a new disease when information about mortality and long-term effects is not readily available (original estimates for Covid gave, I think, a 5% mortality rate; that's serious shit). I cannot wrap my head around outrage over very basic public health concepts that have been with us for, literally, thousands of years. You want to talk about how silly it was for California to close the beaches? I didn't like that, myself. Should blue states have found ways to get kids back in school sooner? Possibly, yes! But the idea that people should just be allowed to wantonly spread disease because ... reasons? That's a non-starter.

So, again: I sure would like to be on the rail in front of Mike at a show, but I don't see the point of camping out and waiting in line for hours and hours. Why can't I just push my way to the front? That's way more convenient for me; why should I have to inconvenience myself by spending my valuable time waiting in the GA line just because other people said that's how it's done? Based on what you're saying, it would be wrong for those poor fools who camped out for two days to yell at me and tell me to go to the back of the line, because if they're so worried about how other people are behaving, maybe they should just stay home. I don't think that tactic would be well received.

In a pandemic, availing oneself of vaccinations is a basic civic duty. Period. You do not have the right to endanger others. You also do not have the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, nor do you have the right to incite violence, or to use your AR for target practice in a residential area, or to drive the wrong way on the freeway because there's a backup and you're in a big hurry. I do love civil liberties, but all of the above actions infringe on the rights and freedoms of others, and that's not okay!

Finally: I spent nearly a year taking a dear elderly friend her groceries, until she was fully vaccinated against Covid. We spent a lot of time talking over those months, and one time she said "By the time you get to be my age, everyone has something wrong with them." Growing old is a privilege. I was at the Pittsburgh shows: much less smoky than the first shows I went to, far fewer drunks, nobody around me strung out on acid. We're all getting old/er. Perhaps you are the unusually lucky exception. Perhaps you have elite-level fitness, normal blood pressure and cholesterol, no history of smoking, no chronic diseases, no wonky family history. Perhaps. That's highly unlikely, but it's possible. If so, well, one of these days, that will change. Maybe it won't bother you if people around you react to your health problems with a shrug and "Sucks to be you, but I'm not changing what I'm doing just because you have XYZ." I don't know.

But I, personally, would rather live in a society where other people hold the door for an elderly person, or summon help for someone having a heart attack, or do really basic things to respect the well-being of others.  It sure would be *nice* if people stayed the hell at home when they have colds, and I had hoped that the pandemic would engender some empathy in others. But the fact that we're still having this debate five years later tells me that's not happening. That's fucking depressing, but here we are.

Jesus. You seem like a very nice person and I don't want to sound rude, but I'm not really interested in anecdotal/personal. We all have a story and you wouldn't be interested in mine as it doesn't fit your narrative. What really caught my eye is your isolation comments. Can you clarify in 1-3 sentences or with a simple yes or no, so it's very obvious for all confused here, if (now, in 2025, NOT 2021) you still support mandatory vaccinations for common cold and isolation of the unvaccinated. That's all that interests me.

There is no vaccine for the common cold. COVID-19 is not the common cold, and it will not be the common cold no matter how many times you disingenuously try to conflate the two.

Covid feels like common cold to most people nowadays no matter how many times you try to misinterpret the situation. 

AW124797

BF25394 said:

curmudgeoness said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Let's try again. What is Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -  ?

Seriously, it is a response to "Why can't the people worried about getting sick just stay in their basements?" You asked a -- presumed -- hypothetical, and I am asking *you* why we should cater to bullies and jackasses. Why are *you* outraged by the suggestion that the standard you recommended for others, whom you labeled "phobic," could just as easily be flipped and applied to you? That's not logically consistent. Why is it okay to isolate those afraid of catching a serious disease (by the way -- do you not know anyone with health problems?!? Many already curtail their movements out of necessity!) but outrageous and insane to suggest, instead, isolating people who are intent on spreading disease? If you're entertaining the former solution, you must also consider the advantages of the latter, otherwise you are merely suggesting privileging people who share your worldview over others.

Just because *you* thought Covid was like a "common cold" (which, again, before Prevnar, a common cold stayed with me for months...) even though over a million people in the US died from it -- doesn't mean that it was "just a cold" for everyone else. And -- you are aware that quarantine and isolation are not new concepts developed by the libs in 2020, aren't you? It's common freaking sense to limit the spread of disease, especially a new disease when information about mortality and long-term effects is not readily available (original estimates for Covid gave, I think, a 5% mortality rate; that's serious shit). I cannot wrap my head around outrage over very basic public health concepts that have been with us for, literally, thousands of years. You want to talk about how silly it was for California to close the beaches? I didn't like that, myself. Should blue states have found ways to get kids back in school sooner? Possibly, yes! But the idea that people should just be allowed to wantonly spread disease because ... reasons? That's a non-starter.

So, again: I sure would like to be on the rail in front of Mike at a show, but I don't see the point of camping out and waiting in line for hours and hours. Why can't I just push my way to the front? That's way more convenient for me; why should I have to inconvenience myself by spending my valuable time waiting in the GA line just because other people said that's how it's done? Based on what you're saying, it would be wrong for those poor fools who camped out for two days to yell at me and tell me to go to the back of the line, because if they're so worried about how other people are behaving, maybe they should just stay home. I don't think that tactic would be well received.

In a pandemic, availing oneself of vaccinations is a basic civic duty. Period. You do not have the right to endanger others. You also do not have the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, nor do you have the right to incite violence, or to use your AR for target practice in a residential area, or to drive the wrong way on the freeway because there's a backup and you're in a big hurry. I do love civil liberties, but all of the above actions infringe on the rights and freedoms of others, and that's not okay!

Finally: I spent nearly a year taking a dear elderly friend her groceries, until she was fully vaccinated against Covid. We spent a lot of time talking over those months, and one time she said "By the time you get to be my age, everyone has something wrong with them." Growing old is a privilege. I was at the Pittsburgh shows: much less smoky than the first shows I went to, far fewer drunks, nobody around me strung out on acid. We're all getting old/er. Perhaps you are the unusually lucky exception. Perhaps you have elite-level fitness, normal blood pressure and cholesterol, no history of smoking, no chronic diseases, no wonky family history. Perhaps. That's highly unlikely, but it's possible. If so, well, one of these days, that will change. Maybe it won't bother you if people around you react to your health problems with a shrug and "Sucks to be you, but I'm not changing what I'm doing just because you have XYZ." I don't know.

But I, personally, would rather live in a society where other people hold the door for an elderly person, or summon help for someone having a heart attack, or do really basic things to respect the well-being of others.  It sure would be *nice* if people stayed the hell at home when they have colds, and I had hoped that the pandemic would engender some empathy in others. But the fact that we're still having this debate five years later tells me that's not happening. That's fucking depressing, but here we are.

Everything you say here*, as in all of your posts, is well-reasoned and well-argued. Unfortunately, as they say in Cool Hand Luke, "some men you just can't reach."

* One small point: you can shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater. What you cannot do is falsely shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater. If there's a fire in a crowded theater, and someone spots it, we want them alerting their fellow theatergoers.

It's pretty obvious what he or she meant, but thank you anyway. Again, hope it made you feel better. 

josevolution

I don’t get the point of arguing/debating this issue, I don’t waste my time talking to antivaxers about it. I saw a lot of death in that 1st year of the pandemic working in a hospital here in NY

Halifax2TheMax

AW124797 said:

BF25394 said:

AW124797 said:

curmudgeoness said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Let's try again. What is Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -  ?

Seriously, it is a response to "Why can't the people worried about getting sick just stay in their basements?" You asked a -- presumed -- hypothetical, and I am asking *you* why we should cater to bullies and jackasses. Why are *you* outraged by the suggestion that the standard you recommended for others, whom you labeled "phobic," could just as easily be flipped and applied to you? That's not logically consistent. Why is it okay to isolate those afraid of catching a serious disease (by the way -- do you not know anyone with health problems?!? Many already curtail their movements out of necessity!) but outrageous and insane to suggest, instead, isolating people who are intent on spreading disease? If you're entertaining the former solution, you must also consider the advantages of the latter, otherwise you are merely suggesting privileging people who share your worldview over others.

Just because *you* thought Covid was like a "common cold" (which, again, before Prevnar, a common cold stayed with me for months...) even though over a million people in the US died from it -- doesn't mean that it was "just a cold" for everyone else. And -- you are aware that quarantine and isolation are not new concepts developed by the libs in 2020, aren't you? It's common freaking sense to limit the spread of disease, especially a new disease when information about mortality and long-term effects is not readily available (original estimates for Covid gave, I think, a 5% mortality rate; that's serious shit). I cannot wrap my head around outrage over very basic public health concepts that have been with us for, literally, thousands of years. You want to talk about how silly it was for California to close the beaches? I didn't like that, myself. Should blue states have found ways to get kids back in school sooner? Possibly, yes! But the idea that people should just be allowed to wantonly spread disease because ... reasons? That's a non-starter.

So, again: I sure would like to be on the rail in front of Mike at a show, but I don't see the point of camping out and waiting in line for hours and hours. Why can't I just push my way to the front? That's way more convenient for me; why should I have to inconvenience myself by spending my valuable time waiting in the GA line just because other people said that's how it's done? Based on what you're saying, it would be wrong for those poor fools who camped out for two days to yell at me and tell me to go to the back of the line, because if they're so worried about how other people are behaving, maybe they should just stay home. I don't think that tactic would be well received.

In a pandemic, availing oneself of vaccinations is a basic civic duty. Period. You do not have the right to endanger others. You also do not have the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, nor do you have the right to incite violence, or to use your AR for target practice in a residential area, or to drive the wrong way on the freeway because there's a backup and you're in a big hurry. I do love civil liberties, but all of the above actions infringe on the rights and freedoms of others, and that's not okay!

Finally: I spent nearly a year taking a dear elderly friend her groceries, until she was fully vaccinated against Covid. We spent a lot of time talking over those months, and one time she said "By the time you get to be my age, everyone has something wrong with them." Growing old is a privilege. I was at the Pittsburgh shows: much less smoky than the first shows I went to, far fewer drunks, nobody around me strung out on acid. We're all getting old/er. Perhaps you are the unusually lucky exception. Perhaps you have elite-level fitness, normal blood pressure and cholesterol, no history of smoking, no chronic diseases, no wonky family history. Perhaps. That's highly unlikely, but it's possible. If so, well, one of these days, that will change. Maybe it won't bother you if people around you react to your health problems with a shrug and "Sucks to be you, but I'm not changing what I'm doing just because you have XYZ." I don't know.

But I, personally, would rather live in a society where other people hold the door for an elderly person, or summon help for someone having a heart attack, or do really basic things to respect the well-being of others.  It sure would be *nice* if people stayed the hell at home when they have colds, and I had hoped that the pandemic would engender some empathy in others. But the fact that we're still having this debate five years later tells me that's not happening. That's fucking depressing, but here we are.

Jesus. You seem like a very nice person and I don't want to sound rude, but I'm not really interested in anecdotal/personal. We all have a story and you wouldn't be interested in mine as it doesn't fit your narrative. What really caught my eye is your isolation comments. Can you clarify in 1-3 sentences or with a simple yes or no, so it's very obvious for all confused here, if (now, in 2025, NOT 2021) you still support mandatory vaccinations for common cold and isolation of the unvaccinated. That's all that interests me.

There is no vaccine for the common cold. COVID-19 is not the common cold, and it will not be the common cold no matter how many times you disingenuously try to conflate the two.

Covid feels like common cold to most people nowadays no matter how many times you try to misinterpret the situation. 

Does Covid feel like the “common cold” to those who are vaccinated, those who are not or those who die from it? Just wondering.

BF25394

AW124797 said:

BF25394 said:

AW124797 said:

curmudgeoness said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

AW124797 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Stop being dramatic. No one is suggestion forced vaccinations or quarantining. The vaccines are safe and effective and mitigate more severe infections. There’s nothing wrong with positing that maybe we think about other people instead of just ourselves when it comes to dealing with illness. Especially if it all it takes is doing the bare minimum at next to no risk to yourself. 

Wait, is this suggesting, wishing or hoping? Help me out here. 

curmudgeoness said:

....But shit like cigarette smoke and Covid droplets enter my nose and make me sick, and I take issue with that. You do not have the right to make me or anyone else sick. I view availing oneself of vaccinations as a basic civil duty. Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -- if you're determined to be an unrepentant plague vector, why should the rest of society be expected to accommodate you?

Wishing/hoping that people would be considerate of others. 

Let's try again. What is Why can/should we not argue that anti-vaxxers should be isolated, instead? Seriously -  ?

Seriously, it is a response to "Why can't the people worried about getting sick just stay in their basements?" You asked a -- presumed -- hypothetical, and I am asking *you* why we should cater to bullies and jackasses. Why are *you* outraged by the suggestion that the standard you recommended for others, whom you labeled "phobic," could just as easily be flipped and applied to you? That's not logically consistent. Why is it okay to isolate those afraid of catching a serious disease (by the way -- do you not know anyone with health problems?!? Many already curtail their movements out of necessity!) but outrageous and insane to suggest, instead, isolating people who are intent on spreading disease? If you're entertaining the former solution, you must also consider the advantages of the latter, otherwise you are merely suggesting privileging people who share your worldview over others.

Just because *you* thought Covid was like a "common cold" (which, again, before Prevnar, a common cold stayed with me for months...) even though over a million people in the US died from it -- doesn't mean that it was "just a cold" for everyone else. And -- you are aware that quarantine and isolation are not new concepts developed by the libs in 2020, aren't you? It's common freaking sense to limit the spread of disease, especially a new disease when information about mortality and long-term effects is not readily available (original estimates for Covid gave, I think, a 5% mortality rate; that's serious shit). I cannot wrap my head around outrage over very basic public health concepts that have been with us for, literally, thousands of years. You want to talk about how silly it was for California to close the beaches? I didn't like that, myself. Should blue states have found ways to get kids back in school sooner? Possibly, yes! But the idea that people should just be allowed to wantonly spread disease because ... reasons? That's a non-starter.

So, again: I sure would like to be on the rail in front of Mike at a show, but I don't see the point of camping out and waiting in line for hours and hours. Why can't I just push my way to the front? That's way more convenient for me; why should I have to inconvenience myself by spending my valuable time waiting in the GA line just because other people said that's how it's done? Based on what you're saying, it would be wrong for those poor fools who camped out for two days to yell at me and tell me to go to the back of the line, because if they're so worried about how other people are behaving, maybe they should just stay home. I don't think that tactic would be well received.

In a pandemic, availing oneself of vaccinations is a basic civic duty. Period. You do not have the right to endanger others. You also do not have the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, nor do you have the right to incite violence, or to use your AR for target practice in a residential area, or to drive the wrong way on the freeway because there's a backup and you're in a big hurry. I do love civil liberties, but all of the above actions infringe on the rights and freedoms of others, and that's not okay!

Finally: I spent nearly a year taking a dear elderly friend her groceries, until she was fully vaccinated against Covid. We spent a lot of time talking over those months, and one time she said "By the time you get to be my age, everyone has something wrong with them." Growing old is a privilege. I was at the Pittsburgh shows: much less smoky than the first shows I went to, far fewer drunks, nobody around me strung out on acid. We're all getting old/er. Perhaps you are the unusually lucky exception. Perhaps you have elite-level fitness, normal blood pressure and cholesterol, no history of smoking, no chronic diseases, no wonky family history. Perhaps. That's highly unlikely, but it's possible. If so, well, one of these days, that will change. Maybe it won't bother you if people around you react to your health problems with a shrug and "Sucks to be you, but I'm not changing what I'm doing just because you have XYZ." I don't know.

But I, personally, would rather live in a society where other people hold the door for an elderly person, or summon help for someone having a heart attack, or do really basic things to respect the well-being of others.  It sure would be *nice* if people stayed the hell at home when they have colds, and I had hoped that the pandemic would engender some empathy in others. But the fact that we're still having this debate five years later tells me that's not happening. That's fucking depressing, but here we are.

Jesus. You seem like a very nice person and I don't want to sound rude, but I'm not really interested in anecdotal/personal. We all have a story and you wouldn't be interested in mine as it doesn't fit your narrative. What really caught my eye is your isolation comments. Can you clarify in 1-3 sentences or with a simple yes or no, so it's very obvious for all confused here, if (now, in 2025, NOT 2021) you still support mandatory vaccinations for common cold and isolation of the unvaccinated. That's all that interests me.

There is no vaccine for the common cold. COVID-19 is not the common cold, and it will not be the common cold no matter how many times you disingenuously try to conflate the two.

Covid feels like common cold to most people nowadays no matter how many times you try to misinterpret the situation. 

You are analogizing a disease that still kills tens of thousands of people each year to a disease that kills virtually no one. Actually, you're not even analogizing. You're straight-up acting like the two diseases are equivalent. They aren't. You either understand this, and are being disingenuous, or you don't understand it, and are ignorant. Either way, it reflects poorly on you.

HughFreakingDillon

BF25394 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

 

Now that covid has evolved to basically the common cold, I don’t bother with the boosters. 

This is not right. The common cold is almost never fatal. COVID-19 is still killing tens of thousands of Americans each year (about 45,000 died from COVID-19 in the U.S. in 2024). Data are still incomplete for the current season, but COVID-19 was also still deadlier than the flu during the 2023-24 season.

as I clarified on a post after this one, I meant TO ME

mrussel1

BF25394 said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Tim Simmons said:

My personal take is, let the scientists do their thing. If you aren't a scientist, stfu. 

I tend to agree with this statement, but scientists are people, and people are corruptible.  Scientists give me better odds though.  That said, while I eat McDonalds and thus am a hypocrite, I'm not going to take a shot or a pill unless it is critical to my health.  

So when the unit doesn't work as well as it used to, you'll just retire from that activity?

Haha.  I eat McDonalds because it tastes good despite the harmful effects.  The blue pill provides a welcome effect.  Both examples have pros and cons.  Unless I think I would get really sick from Covid (I don’t), the vaccine doesn’t give me a big benefit.

But it is not critical to your health.  Interestingly, as you get older it may be very much to your advantage to take the vax, especially if you start acquiring age related diseases.  

McDonald's is also only harmful if you eat too much of it. It's not harmful to your health to have McDonald's occasionally.

The point isn’t about McDonald’s, it’s that you weaken as you age so don’t act like what you need (or don’t need) today is the same as in your 70s and beyond. 

bootlegger10

mickeyrat said:n

US CDC continues to recommend COVID vaccines for children, contradicts Kennedy - https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-cdc-keeps-recommendation-covid-vaccines-healthy-kids-report-says-2025-05-30/

Stupid stupid stupid stupid.  Measles vaccine? Yes.  Covid vaccine for kids? No.  Money money money and you all don’t see it. 

Tim Simmons

maybe we do and we value health more?

Tim Simmons

omg Big Pharma makes money. stop the press you sheeple.

mickeyrat

insurance covers vaccines.

so, how about parents , in consultation with their childs physician, make the decision. and in consultation with their own doctors, make the decision that they feel is best for them?

I dont know, seems like that might work?

bootlegger10

Tim Simmons said:

maybe we do and we value health more?

Pushing shots on people that they don't need.  

Tim Simmons

bootlegger10 said:

Tim Simmons said:

maybe we do and we value health more?

(Altered Comment removed by Admin.)

FTFY
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