PJ fans in 12 step Recovery

mickeyrat

HughFreakingDillon said:

noticed this thread and saw a post a page or two back, and I have an honest, NOT JUDGMENTAL, question for whomever wishes to answer: why is a higher power such an integral part of the process? what does a god or spiritual being have to do with getting sober? this is something I've always wondered, especially after that Seinfeld episode.

Ok, as an alcoholic and a drug addict, I was powerless to stop on my own. I was compelled, day after day , year after year to chase the next one. So the theory is, I would need a power greater than or outside of , myself to help me. Now what this power consists of ,be it a God of whatever religious faith or other spiritual entity or practice ( think buddhism) is entirely up to the individual. For me personally I draw from the natural world and my place in it as that power greater than myself. ( prior to sobriety I saw no place where I fit in the natural order of things you know? I felt alien to this world). Also the power contained in the actions taken of the 12 steps itself . I am amongst a group of people who individually could not get or stay sober on their own. Collectively , we can get and stay sober. So theres power in that , that I do not possess of myself.

Of course its true that a 12 step program is not the end all be all in getting or staying sober. There are innumerable ways for that to occur. What I have found though , is that this method works for me. Provided I am willing to put the work in and decline the first drink or drug. That is after all the one that gets ME every time. The first one.

whispering hands

HughFreakingDillon said:

noticed this thread and saw a post a page or two back, and I have an honest, NOT JUDGMENTAL, question for whomever wishes to answer: why is a higher power such an integral part of the process? what does a god or spiritual being have to do with getting sober? this is something I've always wondered, especially after that Seinfeld episode.

I can only answer for
Myself.. but for me it's about being able to truly "let go " of all the crap ghost messed me up in the first place. There is a freedom not found in any
Other system. But in the day to day. Those moments that make me question myself, toI know I can ask God for the strength to get through. Putting my faith in God to get me through, versus my
'Faith' on that drink, is comforting; and encouraging, because I truly believe He wants us to be happy.

That's my perspective.

HughFreakingDillon

whispering hands said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

noticed this thread and saw a post a page or two back, and I have an honest, NOT JUDGMENTAL, question for whomever wishes to answer: why is a higher power such an integral part of the process? what does a god or spiritual being have to do with getting sober? this is something I've always wondered, especially after that Seinfeld episode.

I can only answer for
Myself.. but for me it's about being able to truly "let go " of all the crap ghost messed me up in the first place. There is a freedom not found in any
Other system. But in the day to day. Those moments that make me question myself, toI know I can ask God for the strength to get through. Putting my faith in God to get me through, versus my
'Faith' on that drink, is comforting; and encouraging, because I truly believe He wants us to be happy.

That's my perspective.

I feel the need to preface my questions with this, as I know it is a sensitive subject, and don't want to come across as an ass, my questions are not meant to be a "challenge" (being atheist/agnostic-I'm still not sure-lol) I'm just honestly curious:

did you believe in god prior to getting sober, or was it a by product of the process?

whispering hands

No. I have always known there is a God. After so
Many crazy instances where you should be dead, and it just makes sense to ne that there must be someone/ something out there watching out for me..My getting sober was after I had left church and God behind for many years, and one day, I
Just broke. I was sitting in a room FILLED with empty liquor bottles, and beer cans. I smelled like a swill, just lost my sweet job, and got into a terrible fight with my sister.. I finally asked God to help me. But that required my getting away from everyone and everything outside of church.. That was the process that worked for me. I attend a bible
Based 12 program called Most Excellent Way. I have been attending for two and a half years. Outside of some pot here and there, I have been sober for two and a half years.

I answered this as honestly as you asked your question. I really can't explain why the higher power part is so heavily presented. I DO know this started as a Christian based teaching. ( the original 12 step program cited God, and God alone, Eventually the te higher power got thrown in to include all faiths and beliefs)

I can only tell you why believing in God is what works for me. I cannot convince you to believe in Him. All I CAN do is live my life in such a way, that the difference between the jack ass I was WITHOUT God in my life, and LIVING for Him, is brilliant and obvious. ( I know that I have NOT been a very
Good witness of my faith, so take this as you will).

And I think the higher power part of the program is there to kind of force the mind to let go of things, Shen
You truly let go of the things that are causing the need for escape, you are able to face things with a confidence ( that often doesn't feel bold or confident), that you give up when
You hide in your addiction. Giving things to God, letting go and letting God, is powerful.. But not everyone believes in God. You have to find a power that moves you.. One builds you
Up, and gives you strength.

Sorry if this post was confusing.

mickeyrat

FYI there are numerous Atheists who have found recovery in the rooms of AA.

HughFreakingDillon

mickeyrat said:

FYI there are numerous Atheists who have found recovery in the rooms of AA.

but don't you have to admit to there being a higher power?

HughFreakingDillon

whispering hands said:

No. I have always known there is a God. After so
Many crazy instances where you should be dead, and it just makes sense to ne that there must be someone/ something out there watching out for me..My getting sober was after I had left church and God behind for many years, and one day, I
Just broke. I was sitting in a room FILLED with empty liquor bottles, and beer cans. I smelled like a swill, just lost my sweet job, and got into a terrible fight with my sister.. I finally asked God to help me. But that required my getting away from everyone and everything outside of church.. That was the process that worked for me. I attend a bible
Based 12 program called Most Excellent Way. I have been attending for two and a half years. Outside of some pot here and there, I have been sober for two and a half years.

I answered this as honestly as you asked your question. I really can't explain why the higher power part is so heavily presented. I DO know this started as a Christian based teaching. ( the original 12 step program cited God, and God alone, Eventually the te higher power got thrown in to include all faiths and beliefs)

I can only tell you why believing in God is what works for me. I cannot convince you to believe in Him. All I CAN do is live my life in such a way, that the difference between the jack ass I was WITHOUT God in my life, and LIVING for Him, is brilliant and obvious. ( I know that I have NOT been a very
Good witness of my faith, so take this as you will).

And I think the higher power part of the program is there to kind of force the mind to let go of things, Shen
You truly let go of the things that are causing the need for escape, you are able to face things with a confidence ( that often doesn't feel bold or confident), that you give up when
You hide in your addiction. Giving things to God, letting go and letting God, is powerful.. But not everyone believes in God. You have to find a power that moves you.. One builds you
Up, and gives you strength.

Sorry if this post was confusing.

thanks WH. i appreciate it.

HughFreakingDillon

sorry, i'm not trying to take away from the purpose of this thread. i am just always curious about spirituality in humans and how it comes about in different settings.

mickeyrat

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

FYI there are numerous Atheists who have found recovery in the rooms of AA.

but don't you have to admit to there being a higher power?

no.Not neccesarily. Or rather in the terms or definition I think you are thinking of. My post above tree's points to that. But there are no rules to this Hugh. Only suggestions. Whats laid out as suggestion is what the first 100 or so did. Thats all the book is an accounting of what they did and the results gained. We are free to incorporate all or some to our understanding and desires.

Another aspect to the HP concept is the humility involved. Being humble is in my opinion a crucial virtue to this thing or in life in general.

HughFreakingDillon

mickeyrat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

FYI there are numerous Atheists who have found recovery in the rooms of AA.

but don't you have to admit to there being a higher power?

no. there are no rules to this Hugh. Only suggestions. Whats laid out as suggestion is what the first 100 or so did. Thats all the book is an accounting of what they did and the results gained. We are free to incorporate all or some to our understanding and desires.

Another aspect to the HP concept is the humility involved. Being humble is in my opinion a crucial virtue to this thing or in life in general.

interesting. i didn't know that. i thought you had to follow and complete the 12 steps. my ignorance. my bad.

mickeyrat

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

FYI there are numerous Atheists who have found recovery in the rooms of AA.

but don't you have to admit to there being a higher power?

no. there are no rules to this Hugh. Only suggestions. Whats laid out as suggestion is what the first 100 or so did. Thats all the book is an accounting of what they did and the results gained. We are free to incorporate all or some to our understanding and desires.

Another aspect to the HP concept is the humility involved. Being humble is in my opinion a crucial virtue to this thing or in life in general.

interesting. i didn't know that. i thought you had to follow and complete the 12 steps. my ignorance. my bad.

well , if you want to follow the template of the steps as they are suggested , you then can have a check on your work in the results as written, you know? But there isnt a progress checklist that everyone sees or something along those lines. This is a complete individual proposition, done together as it were.My first 3 years ,, I half assed the steps and was able to maintain the desire to stay abstinent. I wasnt very happy or even content during that time. So , in my experience , while its possible, its not the better path.

I hear it all the time , folks wanting to do this perfectly. Which to start is false and in IMO impossible , being a fallible being., enough blackouts or even one , your 4th step will be incomplete by that standard.

whispering hands

mickeyrat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mickeyrat said:

FYI there are numerous Atheists who have found recovery in the rooms of AA.

but don't you have to admit to there being a higher power?

no.Not neccesarily. Or rather in the terms or definition I think you are thinking of. My post above tree's points to that. But there are no rules to this Hugh. Only suggestions. Whats laid out as suggestion is what the first 100 or so did. Thats all the book is an accounting of what they did and the results gained. We are free to incorporate all or some to our understanding and desires.

Another aspect to the HP concept is the humility involved. Being humble is in my opinion a crucial virtue to this thing or in life in general.

Another good point.

mickeyrat

stressful time the holidays. check your local intergroup for alcathons and the like.

theres 2 in my area that go from xmas day through to new years day. 24 hrs a day. meetings every 2 hrs or so. "staffed" by volunteers from the area groups. often theres food.

if you need somewhere to go or are looking for areas of service opportunities, this is a good fit.

Be safe, be warm, stay sober and enjoy each moment as it presents itself.

happy holidays.

www.aa.org links to intergroup offices nationally.

hedonist

Cheers to you, mickey. I hope you and others on similar paths get through with peace and lightness of soul.

whispering hands

Thank you as always for the reminder Mickey! Yes, stay connected.. it makes a world of difference having that support!

chadwick

you're a good guy mr. mickeyrat

deadendp

A thinking of my brother bump.

hedonist

deadendp said:

A thinking of my brother bump.

mickeyrat

closing out the day of 11 yrs clean and sober.....

Amongst the Ani

Congrats!!!!!!!!!