America's Gun Violence #2

Gern Blansten

I can see holding the gun shops accountable but yeah...unless the manufacturer is promoting backyard militia type stuff they really can't be held liable.

When I bought a handgun about 20 years ago the guy selling it to me said something like "the first thing you want to do is chamber a round and shoot it into the ground....that gets their attention".  I was like holy shit man what places are you hanging out in?

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

I can see holding the gun shops accountable but yeah...unless the manufacturer is promoting backyard militia type stuff they really can't be held liable.

When I bought a handgun about 20 years ago the guy selling it to me said something like "the first thing you want to do is chamber a round and shoot it into the ground....that gets their attention".  I was like holy shit man what places are you hanging out in?

Yes, if the store doesn't follow whatever the current laws are when selling a gun, sure, should be accountable.  But we clearly can't expect them to do the job that our politicians are supposed to be doing which is creating the laws.

HughFreakingDillon

Gern Blansten said:

The gun nuts forget that the killers will adjust. This guy didn't even wait to enter the mall. He just gets out of his car and starts shooting.

Have we encountered a recess shooting yet? The idea makes me cringe but they are coming. No need to break down doors to enter a school. Just wait for the targets to congregate outside and open fire.

and then the conservatives will opt to cancel outdoor recess. 

Merkin Baller

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

The gun nuts forget that the killers will adjust. This guy didn't even wait to enter the mall. He just gets out of his car and starts shooting.

Have we encountered a recess shooting yet? The idea makes me cringe but they are coming. No need to break down doors to enter a school. Just wait for the targets to congregate outside and open fire.

and then the conservatives will opt to cancel outdoor recess. 

No need to cancel outdoor recess, just build high walls, w/ no doors and lots of barbed wire. 

cincybearcat

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

The gun nuts forget that the killers will adjust. This guy didn't even wait to enter the mall. He just gets out of his car and starts shooting.

Have we encountered a recess shooting yet? The idea makes me cringe but they are coming. No need to break down doors to enter a school. Just wait for the targets to congregate outside and open fire.

and then the conservatives will opt to cancel outdoor recess. 

No need to cancel outdoor recess, just build high walls, w/ no doors and lots of barbed wire. 

And make Mexico pay for it!

RoleModelsinBlood31

I’m all for banning assault weapons (they’ll have to declare what exactly those are though) and high capacity clips.  But I agree that holding the manufacturers accountable is a stretch.  To me it wouldn’t make sense to hold alcohol manufacturers accountable for domestic abuse.

Halifax2TheMax

From WaPo:

The shooting in Allen is the third mass killing recorded in Texas so far this year. In 2022, Texas recorded six mass killings by gun — the most of any single state.

Merkin Baller

While I don't disagree w/ the premise that gun manufacturers shouldn't necessarily share in the blame for when mass shootings happen, it's pretty insulting to say the least, to prioritize & protect their interests over that of the innocent people getting murdered every day. 

"Tennessee moves to shield gun firms after school shooting"

https://apnews.com/article/tennessee-gun-lawsuits-shooting-e35ded1be99d504b7ae1694ad030be17


& as long as our politicians are paid off by the gun lobby, they're going to prioritize the gun lobby's interests over yours & mine, so without massive reform regarding political donations, nothing is going to change. 

Gern Blansten

Merkin Baller said:

While I don't disagree w/ the premise that gun manufacturers shouldn't necessarily share in the blame for when mass shootings happen, it's pretty insulting to say the least, to prioritize & protect their interests over that of the innocent people getting murdered every day. 

"Tennessee moves to shield gun firms after school shooting"

https://apnews.com/article/tennessee-gun-lawsuits-shooting-e35ded1be99d504b7ae1694ad030be17


& as long as our politicians are paid off by the gun lobby, they're going to prioritize the gun lobby's interests over yours & mine, so without massive reform regarding political donations, nothing is going to change. 

agreed...that is an industry that should be forbidden from lobbying. I'm sure they get enough government contracts to make that trade off.

tbergs

I have gone back and forth on my opinion about whether gun manufacturers should be held accountable. On one hand, they are only selling the product as allowed by law, and much like alcohol, it's the people using the product who are responsible for how that usage occurs, but then I look at what happened with the tobacco industry. They were just selling a product as well, but they ultimately were proven to know how dangerous it was, I don't see how that case can't be made with guns and alcohol. Outside of companies advertising guns for hunting, the self-defense patriot and hero fantasy of the fear mongering side of the marketing division definitely knows what they are doing. I believe it was here that someone posted those JR-15 style guns targeting kids. Gun culture has just become so fucking toxic.

I mean the automotive industry has progressed leaps and bounds with required safety features and so have other industries where the usage of a product was causing fatalities and serious injury. Unless the gun manufacturers have their feet held to the fire, they will continue to focus their money on making products that more readily are able to to kill more efficiently. There needs to be a wake up call where safety features or measures become the focus.

There are so many levels of failure to getting this problem under control and we know it will already take decades if any measure is actually implemented. Politicians, gun manufacturers and sellers, and the American people all need to take responsibility in curtailing the mass shootings. It's beyond absurd at this point.

Gern Blansten

tbergs said:

I have gone back and forth on my opinion about whether gun manufacturers should be held accountable. On one hand, they are only selling the product as allowed by law, and much like alcohol, it's the people using the product who are responsible for how that usage occurs, but then I look at what happened with the tobacco industry. They were just selling a product as well, but they ultimately were proven to know how dangerous it was, I don't see how that case can't be made with guns and alcohol. Outside of companies advertising guns for hunting, the self-defense patriot and hero fantasy of the fear mongering side of the marketing division definitely knows what they are doing. I believe it was here that someone posted those JR-15 style guns targeting kids. Gun culture has just become so fucking toxic.

I mean the automotive industry has progressed leaps and bounds with required safety features and so have other industries where the usage of a product was causing fatalities and serious injury. Unless the gun manufacturers have their feet held to the fire, they will continue to focus their money on making products that more readily are able to to kill more efficiently. There needs to be a wake up call where safety features or measures become the focus.

There are so many levels of failure to getting this problem under control and we know it will already take decades if any measure is actually implemented. Politicians, gun manufacturers and sellers, and the American people all need to take responsibility in curtailing the mass shootings. It's beyond absurd at this point.

It is....it's fucking stupid

And I can't tell you how many people I argue with about the 2A that aren't even gun owners. The non gun owners seem to be more rabid than actual NRA members which is proven by polling.

gimmesometruth27

the shooter wore a "right wing death squad" patch. this was not your average yosemite sam. this was a neo nazi white supremacist.

this is the same patch worn by proud boys on 1/6.

Gern Blansten

gimmesometruth27 said:

the shooter wore a "right wing death squad" patch. this was not your average yosemite sam. this was a neo nazi white supremacist.

this is the same patch worn by proud boys on 1/6.

Yeah he's not a woke Biden voter for sure

Merkin Baller

tbergs said:

I have gone back and forth on my opinion about whether gun manufacturers should be held accountable. On one hand, they are only selling the product as allowed by law, and much like alcohol, it's the people using the product who are responsible for how that usage occurs, but then I look at what happened with the tobacco industry. They were just selling a product as well, but they ultimately were proven to know how dangerous it was, I don't see how that case can't be made with guns and alcohol. Outside of companies advertising guns for hunting, the self-defense patriot and hero fantasy of the fear mongering side of the marketing division definitely knows what they are doing. I believe it was here that someone posted those JR-15 style guns targeting kids. Gun culture has just become so fucking toxic.

I mean the automotive industry has progressed leaps and bounds with required safety features and so have other industries where the usage of a product was causing fatalities and serious injury. Unless the gun manufacturers have their feet held to the fire, they will continue to focus their money on making products that more readily are able to to kill more efficiently. There needs to be a wake up call where safety features or measures become the focus.

There are so many levels of failure to getting this problem under control and we know it will already take decades if any measure is actually implemented. Politicians, gun manufacturers and sellers, and the American people all need to take responsibility in curtailing the mass shootings. It's beyond absurd at this point.

Pie in the sky thinking here, but  what if, like with the Surgeon General's warnings w/ tobacco, gun stats were plastered on the wall of every gun store, and gun show etc, as study after study has shown the mere presence of a firearm raises the risk of casualty from a firearm for those around them? 

Guns don't make people safer, they in fact do the opposite...maybe a little truth in advertising might be a good start? 

tbergs

gimmesometruth27 said:

the shooter wore a "right wing death squad" patch. this was not your average yosemite sam. this was a neo nazi white supremacist.

this is the same patch worn by proud boys on 1/6.

Should be an automatic disqualification from obtaining a firearm. The level of hate a person like this has is dangerous to us all.

gimmesometruth27

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

the shooter wore a "right wing death squad" patch. this was not your average yosemite sam. this was a neo nazi white supremacist.

this is the same patch worn by proud boys on 1/6.

Should be an automatic disqualification from obtaining a firearm. The level of hate a person like this has is dangerous to us all.

i can argue that that level of hate actually motivates someone to get an ar-15 style weapon. most people would not ever see a need to have one.

josevolution

Gern Blansten said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

the shooter wore a "right wing death squad" patch. this was not your average yosemite sam. this was a neo nazi white supremacist.

this is the same patch worn by proud boys on 1/6.

Yeah he's not a woke Biden voter for sure

Where’s three names racist sending condolences to this patriot or Trumpolinni offering his condolences to him! 

Halifax2TheMax

From CNN:

Witness and Army vet demands change, not thoughts and prayers 

Steven Spainhouer rushed to the gruesome scene after receiving a call from his son, who works at the mall’s H&M store and was hiding in a break room.

When Spainhouer arrived, he “started counting the bodies on the ground … one, two, three, five, six, seven bodies,” he told CNN.

“The first girl I walked up to … I felt for a pulse, pulled her head to the side, and she had no face,” 

He said one child survived after his mother shielded him from the bullets. But the mother was struck and killed.

“When I rolled the mother over, he came out,” Spainhouer told KTVT. “He was covered from head to toe, like somebody had poured blood on him.”

Spainhouer, a former police officer and Army veteran, said the degree of carnage at the mall was “unfathomable.”

“It’s tough when you see a family that’s out shopping, having fun, get wiped off the face of the Earth,” he told KTVT.

Nothing can be done.

OnWis97

Gern Blansten said:

I can see holding the gun shops accountable but yeah...unless the manufacturer is promoting backyard militia type stuff they really can't be held liable.

When I bought a handgun about 20 years ago the guy selling it to me said something like "the first thing you want to do is chamber a round and shoot it into the ground....that gets their attention".  I was like holy shit man what places are you hanging out in?

That same guy probably eventually moved onto "the first thing you want to do is chamber a round and shoot it into someone's leg....that gets their attention".

Now? "the first thing you want to do is chamber a round and shoot it into someone's chest....that gets their attention".

Gern Blansten

https://twitter.com/steven_seegel/status/1655637387530350598