Jan 6 Select Committee

Merkin Baller

Huh

https://twitter.com/alyssafarah/status/1542247899383402498?s=21&t=Xw1vYmGdIzyy16jdxX1kRQ

mickeyrat

from a wapo article related to this.

Ornato denied the conversation. His role is also something that will be chewed over plenty moving forward, including by the Jan. 6 committee. That’s because he was not only a senior Secret Service agent with oversight duties that day but also a political adviser to the White House — an unprecedented setup.

Merkin Baller

“Tony Ornato should testify under oath” - Olivia Troye the former White House Homeland Security advisor to Mike Pence. 

(Betcha he won’t, at least not willingly tho) 

Cropduster-80

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

pjhawks said:

mrussel1 said:

cblock4life said:

My apologies if this was answered before/somewhere….. so I remember hearing that they don’t like calling secret service to testify but they can….so are they using the  “tradition” excuse again and not going to make these guys testify? 

Personally I think this particular issue is a distraction and just sensationalism.  Unless you're going to charge the president with assault against the agent, it doesn't matter.  Trump's words where he said he didn't care that people had weapons and to get rid of the "mags" is much more important and radical.  

agree also.  not sure what the point of the story was.  could have just said Trump was angry at being sent back to the White House against his wishes. I guess they are trying to establish how much he wanted to go to the Capitol but they have pretty much already established that.

I agree the mags issue is huge, but so is the SS angle. 

We are talking about an American president wanting to ride in Mussolini style to Capitol Hill assume the power of congress and probably threaten Pences life in person. Had he done that, we’d either have a bloody revolution or trump indicted in Jan 2020. Either way, it’s a historic moment (that exact moment when he physically fought with the SS) in American history and the SS played a paramount role in what happened.

The SS can not only corroborate her testimony, but since they possibly saved trump from indictment had he pulled a Mussolini, it has become significant to the events right at the moment congress was attacked. 

SS  also likely ignored a presidential order to possibly take him to congress. The ignore part is also huge and historic.

Allegedly, to my knowledge none of this has been backed up, no?

Which makes it compelling to hear the SS side, it’s the exact moment the world could have changed for every American.

If any of this is true I wish they would have let him cross a line before they stopped him so at least there would be some solid proof.

Don’t be a Debbie downer, we have thousands of journalists calling thousands of sources since the testimony

To me, it’s doesn’t matter if he hit an SS agent or just yelled, the essential fact is did he want to be at the assault on the Capitol at the moment it happened, and under what authority was his request denied?

Some reporting from NYT today,

” Secret Service officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that both Mr. Engel and Mr. Ornato would dispute that Mr. Trump tried to grab the wheel of the car or that Mr. Engel was struck. They said the two men would not dispute that Mr. Trump wanted to be driven to the Capitol as the angry pro-Trump protesters, some of them armed, headed in that direction and Congress was gathered to ratify that he had lost the election”

I don’t think the president actually has unilateral authority on where they go.

pretty sure SS does it’s absolute best to accommodate but can say no.  If he wants to walk to McDonald’s during a riot it doesn’t matter how bad he wants to go. He isn’t going 

kind of like how they put him in the bunker that time. It wasn’t up to him 

however it also seems to indicate the assessment was the capital couldn’t be secured, and that was probably long before it was breached I would suspect. They probably  had a good idea what was going to happen.  When the SS first said no you can’t go to the capital could be important.  I doubt the first time they said no was after the speech 

the SS doesn’t care why he wants to go. That doesn’t matter, just that it’s secure or able to be secured. Other people were trying to get him not to go for legal reasons. 

The Juggler

PAT CIPOLLONE.....COME ON DOWN!

Now we're getting somewhere, folks

Cropduster-80

The Juggler said:

PAT CIPOLLONE.....COME ON DOWN!

Now we're getting somewhere, folks

This whole idea he’s trumps lawyer so he can’t testify is absurd.

White House council is the lawyer to the office of the president, not the presidents lawyer. If anything he has to testify to protect the office of the president as a democracy being functional is kind of a requirement 

That’s  why they have to get outside council when it’s stuff pertaining to them. He doesn’t represent them specifically 

Lerxst1992

Cropduster-80 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

pjhawks said:

mrussel1 said:

cblock4life said:

My apologies if this was answered before/somewhere….. so I remember hearing that they don’t like calling secret service to testify but they can….so are they using the  “tradition” excuse again and not going to make these guys testify? 

Personally I think this particular issue is a distraction and just sensationalism.  Unless you're going to charge the president with assault against the agent, it doesn't matter.  Trump's words where he said he didn't care that people had weapons and to get rid of the "mags" is much more important and radical.  

agree also.  not sure what the point of the story was.  could have just said Trump was angry at being sent back to the White House against his wishes. I guess they are trying to establish how much he wanted to go to the Capitol but they have pretty much already established that.

I agree the mags issue is huge, but so is the SS angle. 

We are talking about an American president wanting to ride in Mussolini style to Capitol Hill assume the power of congress and probably threaten Pences life in person. Had he done that, we’d either have a bloody revolution or trump indicted in Jan 2020. Either way, it’s a historic moment (that exact moment when he physically fought with the SS) in American history and the SS played a paramount role in what happened.

The SS can not only corroborate her testimony, but since they possibly saved trump from indictment had he pulled a Mussolini, it has become significant to the events right at the moment congress was attacked. 

SS  also likely ignored a presidential order to possibly take him to congress. The ignore part is also huge and historic.

Allegedly, to my knowledge none of this has been backed up, no?

Which makes it compelling to hear the SS side, it’s the exact moment the world could have changed for every American.

If any of this is true I wish they would have let him cross a line before they stopped him so at least there would be some solid proof.

Don’t be a Debbie downer, we have thousands of journalists calling thousands of sources since the testimony

To me, it’s doesn’t matter if he hit an SS agent or just yelled, the essential fact is did he want to be at the assault on the Capitol at the moment it happened, and under what authority was his request denied?

Some reporting from NYT today,

” Secret Service officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that both Mr. Engel and Mr. Ornato would dispute that Mr. Trump tried to grab the wheel of the car or that Mr. Engel was struck. They said the two men would not dispute that Mr. Trump wanted to be driven to the Capitol as the angry pro-Trump protesters, some of them armed, headed in that direction and Congress was gathered to ratify that he had lost the election”

I don’t think the president actually has unilateral authority on where they go.

pretty sure SS does it’s absolute best to accommodate but can say no.  If he wants to walk to McDonald’s during a riot it doesn’t matter how bad he wants to go. He isn’t going 

kind of like how they put him in the bunker that time. It wasn’t up to him 

however it also seems to indicate the assessment was the capital couldn’t be secured, and that was probably long before it was breached I would suspect. They probably  had a good idea what was going to happen.  When the SS first said no you can’t go to the capital could be important.  I doubt the first time they said no was after the speech 

the SS doesn’t care why he wants to go. That doesn’t matter, just that it’s secure or able to be secured. Other people were trying to get him not to go for legal reasons. 

That sounds very logical and likely how SS operates. But we are talking about the Commander and Chef? Trump overrode their orders, the SS changed history by ignoring their “commander”

During the impeachment trial, trumps role was viewed as simple incitement, and the GOP defense was FREE SPEECH. If we saw trump on the steps of the Capitol as it was violently invaded? Not only would that have  been an immediate admission of culpability, but far reaching implications on what it means to be an American.

It could have created a second civil war on the spot, or a basis to immediately arrest trump.

Halifax2TheMax

Don’t forget that Pence refused the SS entreaties to leave the Capitol. Who on SS was directing that initiative?

Cropduster-80

Halifax2TheMax said:

Don’t forget that Pence refused the SS entreaties to leave the Capitol. Who on SS was directing that initiative?

Pence also authorised the national guard to respond too I think. Don’t think he has that authority 

the take away is probably Trump wasn’t in charge of much, except his twitter feed 

brianlux

The Juggler said:

PAT CIPOLLONE.....COME ON DOWN!

Now we're getting somewhere, folks

Yeah, I'm hoping with Hutchinson coming forward and testifying, and Thompson urging others to come forward (or come back and tell more) that Cipollone and others will do just that.  Hopefully, Hutchinson opened the door, so to speak.

cincybearcat

mrussel1 said:

cblock4life said:

My apologies if this was answered before/somewhere….. so I remember hearing that they don’t like calling secret service to testify but they can….so are they using the  “tradition” excuse again and not going to make these guys testify? 

Personally I think this particular issue is a distraction and just sensationalism.  Unless you're going to charge the president with assault against the agent, it doesn't matter.  Trump's words where he said he didn't care that people had weapons and to get rid of the "mags" is much more important and radical.  

Except it adds to her credibility which makes everything she said even more credible 

Bentleyspop

Traitor...

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1541856003934797827?t=YFvgVfuJ59SOFySqY_DgvQ&s=19

Cropduster-80

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

cblock4life said:

My apologies if this was answered before/somewhere….. so I remember hearing that they don’t like calling secret service to testify but they can….so are they using the  “tradition” excuse again and not going to make these guys testify? 

Personally I think this particular issue is a distraction and just sensationalism.  Unless you're going to charge the president with assault against the agent, it doesn't matter.  Trump's words where he said he didn't care that people had weapons and to get rid of the "mags" is much more important and radical.  

Except it adds to her credibility which makes everything she said even more credible 

Looks like that same story was floating around the secret service too. So to some extent it was widely  known 

Tony Ornato I wouldn’t trust what he says anyway though. A secret service agent who gets a waver to become deputy chief of staff.  That means he’s a political true believer and a guy who for his entire career had to be willing to take a literal bullet for his boss.  Lying for him is that bullet, just less painful 

that also leads me to believe all those agents that close to trump were probably MAGA guys to begin with.  I would trust the other agents saying they told them it happened Vs them directly saying it didn’t 

Cropduster-80

Newsmax has had to bring in a “body language expert” to try to refute her testimony.

so that’s a good indication of what they have got on her to this point.  Nothing 

OnWis97

Cropduster-80 said:

Newsmax has had to bring in a “body language expert” to try to refute her testimony.

so that’s a good indication of what they have got on her to this point.  Nothing 

"She how she sneezed? Nobody that sneezes has gone their entire lives without telling a lie."

Lerxst1992

Bentleyspop said:

Traitor...

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1541856003934797827?t=YFvgVfuJ59SOFySqY_DgvQ&s=19

Thankfully in Oct. Moore v Harper will take care of this peaceful transition of power nonsense once and for all

Go Beavers

Good article on the legal breakdown after Hutchinson's testimony about how the writers think there's enough evidence now to indict Trump on incitement to riot, obstruction of Congress, and maybe insurrection and seditious conspiracy depending on the contact between the white house and proud boys, etc.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/cassidy-hutchinsons-testimony-changed-our-minds-about-indicting-donald-trump

Lerxst1992

Until someone who actually heard trump comment about the mags, it’s hearsay and not evidence to indict. So far, no one has come forward to corroborate.

mickeyrat

Lerxst1992 said:

Until someone who actually heard trump comment about the mags, it’s hearsay and not evidence to indict. So far, no one has come forward to corroborate.

From the Lawfare article above.

In particular, Hutchinson testified to hearing Trump order that the magnetometers (metal detectors) used to keep armed people away from the president be removed: “I don’t fucking care that they have weapons, they’re not here to hurt me. They’re not here to hurt me. Take the fucking mags [magnetometers] away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here; let the people in and take the mags away.” 

mrussel1

Lerxst1992 said:

Until someone who actually heard trump comment about the mags, it’s hearsay and not evidence to indict. So far, no one has come forward to corroborate.

This isn't accurate.  She heard Trump.