2022 North American rumour thread take 2

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Comments

  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,026
    You cant deny me these dates!
     Well done
  • danlee1095danlee1095 Posts: 1,241
    PJNB said:
    D-Rod said:
    bossfan92 said:
    Fenway Park has submitted for concert permits from the city on the following dates:
    (Source: https://www.boston.gov/public-notices/15784061)

    June 7-8
    June 10
    July 1-2
    July 14-16
    August 5-6 - Def Leppard/Motley Crue (rescheduled)
    August 7
    August 18-20
    September 8 - Aerosmith (rescheduled)
    September 10 - Red Hot Chili Peppers

    Subsequently announced shows that aren't on that list are Zac Brown on 7/15 and Bad Bunny on 8/18. My bet would be PJ on 8/19 & 8/20?
    Great work my friend.  August 18th-20th is my guess 
    Just booked my hotel before prices surge!
    Could Bad Bunny of put in for 3 dates only needing one though? Same goes for Zac Brown in July? 
    I suppose anything is possible since this is all speculation but the hotel (The Verb, which is fantastic and basically becomes PJ central at the pool for Fenway shows / stayed in '16 and '18) is fully refundable.  If anyone looking to book, call in and ask for "Returning Rock Star Rate" for 15% off.  Saved $400 off web price.
    9/8/98 (NJ), 9/10/98 (NY), 8/23/00 (NY), 8/24/00 (NY), 8/25/00 (NY), 4/30/03 (NY), 7/8/03 (NY), 7/9/03 (NY), 5/12/06 (NY), 6/1/06 (NJ), 6/3/06 (NJ), 8/5/07 (IL), 6/22/08 (DC), 6/24/08 (NY), 6/25/08 (NY), 7/1/08 (NY), 10/4/09 (TX ), 10/30/09 (PA), 5/20/10 (NY), 5/21/10 (NY), 9/3/11 (WI), 9/4/11 (WI), 7/19/13 (IL), 10/18/13 (NY), 10/19/13 (NY), 10/3/14 (MO), 9/23/15 (NY), 9/26/15 (NY), 5/1/16 (NY), 5/2/16 (NY), 8/5/16 (MA), 8/22/16 (IL), 4/7/17 (NY), 6/18/18 (UK), 8/20/18 (IL), 9/2/18 (MA), 9/4/18 (MA), 9/18/21 (NJ), 9/26/21 (CA), 10/1/21 (CA), 10/2/21 (CA), 9/10/22 (NY), 9/11/22 (NY), 9/14/22 (NJ), 9/16/22 (TN), 9/22/22 (CO), 8/31/23 (MN), 9/2/23 (MN), 9/5/23 (IL), 9/7/23 (IL), 5/16/24 (NV), 5/18/24 (NV), 5/28/24 (WA), 5/30/24 (WA), 8/29/24 (IL), 8/31/24 (IL), 9/3/24 (NY), 9/4/24 (NY), 9/7/24 (PA), 9/12/24 (MD), 9/15/24 (MA), 9/17/24 (MA)
  • darwinstheorydarwinstheory LaPorte, IN Posts: 6,622
    PJNB said:
    D-Rod said:
    PJNB said:
    bossfan92 said:
    Fenway Park has submitted for concert permits from the city on the following dates:
    (Source: https://www.boston.gov/public-notices/15784061)

    June 7-8
    June 10
    July 1-2
    July 14-16
    August 5-6 - Def Leppard/Motley Crue (rescheduled)
    August 7
    August 18-20
    September 8 - Aerosmith (rescheduled)
    September 10 - Red Hot Chili Peppers

    Subsequently announced shows that aren't on that list are Zac Brown on 7/15 and Bad Bunny on 8/18. My bet would be PJ on 8/19 & 8/20?
    Nice work but when is Lady Gaga and at what stage of the planning do these become public?
    PJNB you looking for some bad romance? 
     Nah she is super talented but nah lol. Just trying to scratch another date off? 
    Seems like you're putting on you p-p-p-poker face p-p-poker face.
    "A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
  • Nashville could be towards the end of the leg if it really is Memorial Day Weekend. The band might want to quarantine for 2 weeks before going to Europe
    2003: Uniondale, MSG x2 | 2004: Reading | 2005: Gorge, Vancouver, Philly | 2006: East Rutherford x2, Gorge x2, Camden 1, Hartford | 2008: MSG x2, VA Beach | 2009: Philly x3 | 2010: MSG x2, Bristow | 2011: Alpine Valley x2 | 2012: MIA Philly | 2013: Wrigley, Charlottesville, Brooklyn 2 | 2014: Milan, Amsterdam 1 | 2016: MSG x2, Fenway x2, Wrigley 2 | 2018: Rome, Krakow, Berlin, Wrigley 2 | 2021: Sea Hear Now | 2022: San Diego, LA x2, MSG, Camden, Nashville, St. Louis, Denver | 2023: St. Paul 1, Chicago x2, Fort Worth x2, Austin 2 | 2024: Las Vegas 1, Seattle x2, Indy, MSG x2, Philly x2, Baltimore, Ohana 2
  • PJNBPJNB Posts: 13,564
    OK I LOVE LADY GAGA! 


    @HailHailVitalogy that is actually a good point and a possibility with quarantining but these guys did not even do that for Ohana and SHN last year. Sure it was just a couple of fests vs a whole Euro tour but I still found it interesting they were out in the public so much before the shows. Mike and Ed especially. 


  • PJNBPJNB Posts: 13,564
    So for Fenway with the info above Aug 19/20 are the only dates that really work if there are no other permits that can be applied. If the September rumour is true it has to be either Sep 5-7 or Sep 19-21. You would have to think after Sep 21st Ohana is going to be a factor. Also 4 days that have not been mentioned are Aug 1-4. 

    I am still going with the Sep 5 and Sep 7th as the dates. Just a guess. 
  • lmckenney24lmckenney24 Posts: 2,005
    PJNB said:
    So for Fenway with the info above Aug 19/20 are the only dates that really work if there are no other permits that can be applied. If the September rumour is true it has to be either Sep 5-7 or Sep 19-21. You would have to think after Sep 21st Ohana is going to be a factor. Also 4 days that have not been mentioned are Aug 1-4. 

    I am still going with the Sep 5 and Sep 7th as the dates. Just a guess. 
    I think all are possible, but my gut has a hard time getting past the fenway dates not being the back half of the week or weekend. 
  • Weston1283Weston1283 Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 4,924
    edited January 2022
    I mean long shot but I wouldn’t rule out June 7-8

    If Nashville ends Memorial Day weekend, they could play Fenway those 2 days, jump on a relatively quick flight to Netherlands from Boston and have 8-9 days to rest before PinkPop.  Maybe even make a stop in Ohio, Michigan or Pennsylvania on the way up to Boston.

    Maybe Fenway was the reason Amsterdam shows moved?

    Those permits seem pretty solid and planned specifically for those dates.  June 7-8 is the only one not occupied at least in part by another band 

    The more I think about it, why go through moving Amsterdam AGAIN just for “rest” which they have had for 5 years now?  Or was it moved for a really, really good reason, something like 70k people at Fenway park over 2 days?

    The latter makes much more sense to me 
    Post edited by Weston1283 on
    2010: Cleveland
    2012: Atlanta
    2013: London ONT / Wrigley Field / Pittsburgh / Buffalo / San Diego / Los Angeles I / Los Angeles II
    2014: Cincinnati / St. Louis / Tulsa / Lincoln / Detroit / Denver
    2015: New York City
    2016: Ft. Lauderdale / Miami / Jacksonville / Greenville / Hampton / Columbia / Lexington / Philly II / New York City II / Toronto II / Bonnaroo / Telluride / Fenway I / Wrigley I / Wrigley - II / TOTD - Philadelphia, San Francisco
    2017: Ohana Fest (EV)
    2018: Amsterdam I / Amsterdam II / Seattle I / Seattle II / Boston I / Boston II
    2021: Asbury Park / Ohana Encore 1 / Ohana Encore 2
    2022: Phoenix / LA I / LA II / Quebec City / Ottawa / New York City / Camden / Nashville / St. Louis / Denver
    2023: St. Paul II
    2024: Las Vegas I / Las Vegas II / New York City I / New York City II / Philly I / Philly II / Baltimore
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,614
    PJNB said:
    OK I LOVE LADY GAGA! 


    @HailHailVitalogy that is actually a good point and a possibility with quarantining but these guys did not even do that for Ohana and SHN last year. Sure it was just a couple of fests vs a whole Euro tour but I still found it interesting they were out in the public so much before the shows. Mike and Ed especially. 


    I knew it!!!! 

    My wife and I love Boston, that would be a show I would definitely go to.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,300
    All those years trying to wish a Fenway show into existence was obviously time well spent. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Beachman44Beachman44 Swedesboro, NJ Posts: 176
    pjhawks said:
    Citizens Bank in Philly is available Friday Sept 2.  Sat the 3rd the Chilli Peppers are playing but they usually don't do just 1 night of shows at CBP. Usually do one Friday and one Saturday often with a different show Friday than Saturday.  Just sayin...
    I like this idea. Going before/after RHCP/Strokes in both Philly/Boston has the potential of some great guests.  =)
    9/29/1996, 8/28/1998, 8/29/1998, 9/8/1998, 8/25/2000, 9/1/2000, 9/2/2000, 4/28/2003, 5/03/2003, 7/5/2003, 7/6/2003, 10/01/2004, 9/19/2005, 10/1/2005, 10/3/2005, 5/27/2006, 5/28/2006, 5/30/2006, 6/26/2006, 4/15/2008. 6/19/2008, 6/20/2008, 6/22/2008, 8/16/2008, 10/28/2009, 10/30/2009, 10/31/2009, 5/13/2010, 9/3/2011, 9/4/2011, 9/2/2012, 10/21/2013, 10/22/2013, 10/27/2013, 4/8/2016, 4/9/2016, 4/11/2016, 4/13/2016, 4/28/2016, 4/29/2016, 9/2/2018, 9/18/2021, 9/14/2022, 8/31/2023, 9/2/2023, 9/3/2024, 9/7/2024
  • johnny__utahjohnny__utah New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 200
    Wrigley is available August 11-18th, 26-Sept 5th, certainly potential for some ballpark shows in August, just need Gaga to settle her date. 
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,614
    @pjnb what are they saying on the Gaga message boards about your dates?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJNBPJNB Posts: 13,564
    mcgruff10 said:
    @pjnb what are they saying on the Gaga message boards about your dates?
    Nothing solid yet which is odd. I usually am the first to know these things but all is quiet... 
  • D-RodD-Rod Hamilton, Ontario Posts: 1,906
    mcgruff10 said:
    @pjnb what are they saying on the Gaga message boards about your dates?
    Oh my!!!!! Mike is going let up on this one.   Maybe because he was born this way. 
    1996.....Toronto
    2005.....Hamilton
    2011.....Toronto N1, Toronto N2, Hamilton
    2013.....London, Buffalo
    2014.....Detroit
    2016.....Toronto N1 Toronto N2, Boston  N1, Boston N2, Chicago N1
    2018.....Seattle N1, Seattle N2
    2022.....San Diego, Los Angeles N1, Los Angeles N2, Phoenix, Oakland N1, Oakland N2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto  
    2023.....Fort Worth N1, Fort Worth N2, Austin N1, Austin N2
    2024.....Las Vegas N1, Las Vegas N2, Los Angeles N1, Los Angeles N2, Boston N1, Boston N2
    2025.....????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,614
    D-Rod said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @pjnb what are they saying on the Gaga message boards about your dates?
    Oh my!!!!! Mike is going let up on this one.   Maybe because he was born this way. 
    Ha ha.  Have you heard Anything on the Ariana Grande front? I m thinking she could sell out Fenway.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • D-RodD-Rod Hamilton, Ontario Posts: 1,906
    mcgruff10 said:
    D-Rod said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @pjnb what are they saying on the Gaga message boards about your dates?
    Oh my!!!!! Mike is going let up on this one.   Maybe because he was born this way. 
    Ha ha.  Have you heard Anything on the Ariana Grande front? I m thinking she could sell out Fenway.  
    No, but if you want any tour Information on Zamfir Master of the Pan Flute then D-Rod is your guy. 
    1996.....Toronto
    2005.....Hamilton
    2011.....Toronto N1, Toronto N2, Hamilton
    2013.....London, Buffalo
    2014.....Detroit
    2016.....Toronto N1 Toronto N2, Boston  N1, Boston N2, Chicago N1
    2018.....Seattle N1, Seattle N2
    2022.....San Diego, Los Angeles N1, Los Angeles N2, Phoenix, Oakland N1, Oakland N2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto  
    2023.....Fort Worth N1, Fort Worth N2, Austin N1, Austin N2
    2024.....Las Vegas N1, Las Vegas N2, Los Angeles N1, Los Angeles N2, Boston N1, Boston N2
    2025.....????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
  • PJNBPJNB Posts: 13,564
    D-Rod said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    D-Rod said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @pjnb what are they saying on the Gaga message boards about your dates?
    Oh my!!!!! Mike is going let up on this one.   Maybe because he was born this way. 
    Ha ha.  Have you heard Anything on the Ariana Grande front? I m thinking she could sell out Fenway.  
    No, but if you want any tour Information on Zamfir Master of the Pan Flute then D-Rod is your guy. 
    :lol:
  • ComeToTXComeToTX Austin Posts: 7,851
    It only took a week for Elton to get Covid and have to postpone some shows.  Touring is going to be rocky for a bit longer.  Hopefully more normal by May.
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • D-Rod said:
    I’m not annoyed yet, as I’ve expected “early 2022” to mean last week of Jan or early February.

    Now, if the first week or two of February pass and we hear nothing, then I’ll be annoyed again lol
    That’s what I’m thinking as well 
    Alright then.  New deadline Feb. 15.  
    Reconsidered. Will now request my Ottawa refund on Feb 1 if no news by Jan 31.  Enough is enough already.  
    PJ: 2013: London (ON); Buffalo; 2014: Cincinnati; 2016: Sunrise, Miami, Toronto 1-2, Wrigley 2; 2018: London (UK) 1, Milan, Padova, Sea 2, Wrigley 1-2, Fenway 1-2; 2021: SHN, Ohana, Ohana Encore 1-2; 2022: LA 1-2, Phx, Oak 1-2, Fresno, Copenhagen, Hyde Park 1-2; Quebec, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto; MSG, Camden, Nashville, Louisville, St. Louis, OKC; 2023: St. Paul 1-2, Chicago 1-2; Fort Worth 2; Austin 1-2; 2024:  Vancouver 1-2, LV 1-2, LA 1-2, Napa, Barcelona 1-2
     
    EV Solo: 2017 Louisville and Franklin, 2018 Ohana, 2019 Innings Fest, Berlin, Düsseldorf, Dublin and Ohana; 2021 Ohana Friday (from beach) and Saturday; 2022 Earthlings Newark; 2023 Innings Fest and Benoraya 1-2.

    Gutted:  London 2 2018, Sacramento 2022, Noblesville 2023
  • uglybabouglybabo Posts: 527
    D-Rod said:
    I’m not annoyed yet, as I’ve expected “early 2022” to mean last week of Jan or early February.

    Now, if the first week or two of February pass and we hear nothing, then I’ll be annoyed again lol
    That’s what I’m thinking as well 
    Alright then.  New deadline Feb. 15.  
    Reconsidered. Will now request my Ottawa refund on Feb 1 if no news by Jan 31.  Enough is enough already.  

    "The idea of doing business in Ontario is so uncertain that folks are just not interested in constantly trying to navigate the rules," she says.

    "We're hearing things like outright cancellations and conversations (on future tour dates) being paused until 2023 in some cases."

    https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-is-closed-for-business-concert-theatre-organizers-face-new-covid-hurdles-1.5753653


  • uglybabo said:
    D-Rod said:
    I’m not annoyed yet, as I’ve expected “early 2022” to mean last week of Jan or early February.

    Now, if the first week or two of February pass and we hear nothing, then I’ll be annoyed again lol
    That’s what I’m thinking as well 
    Alright then.  New deadline Feb. 15.  
    Reconsidered. Will now request my Ottawa refund on Feb 1 if no news by Jan 31.  Enough is enough already.  

    "The idea of doing business in Ontario is so uncertain that folks are just not interested in constantly trying to navigate the rules," she says.

    "We're hearing things like outright cancellations and conversations (on future tour dates) being paused until 2023 in some cases."

    https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-is-closed-for-business-concert-theatre-organizers-face-new-covid-hurdles-1.5753653


    All will be good for May here... March 14 - we go back to FULL CAPACITY.... 
    I am a bit more concerned for Quebec City... they seem to be a bit behind in terms of opening back up... but May should be good - certainly Sept.  
  • uglybabo said:
    D-Rod said:
    I’m not annoyed yet, as I’ve expected “early 2022” to mean last week of Jan or early February.

    Now, if the first week or two of February pass and we hear nothing, then I’ll be annoyed again lol
    That’s what I’m thinking as well 
    Alright then.  New deadline Feb. 15.  
    Reconsidered. Will now request my Ottawa refund on Feb 1 if no news by Jan 31.  Enough is enough already.  

    "The idea of doing business in Ontario is so uncertain that folks are just not interested in constantly trying to navigate the rules," she says.

    "We're hearing things like outright cancellations and conversations (on future tour dates) being paused until 2023 in some cases."

    https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-is-closed-for-business-concert-theatre-organizers-face-new-covid-hurdles-1.5753653


    Ottawa is my sacrificial lamb if they don’t announce any dates.  If they release the US dates and say Canadian dates aren’t yet determined that would be fine.  
    PJ: 2013: London (ON); Buffalo; 2014: Cincinnati; 2016: Sunrise, Miami, Toronto 1-2, Wrigley 2; 2018: London (UK) 1, Milan, Padova, Sea 2, Wrigley 1-2, Fenway 1-2; 2021: SHN, Ohana, Ohana Encore 1-2; 2022: LA 1-2, Phx, Oak 1-2, Fresno, Copenhagen, Hyde Park 1-2; Quebec, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto; MSG, Camden, Nashville, Louisville, St. Louis, OKC; 2023: St. Paul 1-2, Chicago 1-2; Fort Worth 2; Austin 1-2; 2024:  Vancouver 1-2, LV 1-2, LA 1-2, Napa, Barcelona 1-2
     
    EV Solo: 2017 Louisville and Franklin, 2018 Ohana, 2019 Innings Fest, Berlin, Düsseldorf, Dublin and Ohana; 2021 Ohana Friday (from beach) and Saturday; 2022 Earthlings Newark; 2023 Innings Fest and Benoraya 1-2.

    Gutted:  London 2 2018, Sacramento 2022, Noblesville 2023
  • DissidentRival74DissidentRival74 Six One Five Posts: 150
    JojoRice said:
    Take this with a grain of salt but a guy on Facebook says that the Nashville show will take place over Memorial Day weekend. 
    That'd be awesome....
    "I'm only civil because I don't know any swear words."
  • uglybabouglybabo Posts: 527
    woolyman said:
    uglybabo said:
    D-Rod said:
    I’m not annoyed yet, as I’ve expected “early 2022” to mean last week of Jan or early February.

    Now, if the first week or two of February pass and we hear nothing, then I’ll be annoyed again lol
    That’s what I’m thinking as well 
    Alright then.  New deadline Feb. 15.  
    Reconsidered. Will now request my Ottawa refund on Feb 1 if no news by Jan 31.  Enough is enough already.  

    "The idea of doing business in Ontario is so uncertain that folks are just not interested in constantly trying to navigate the rules," she says.

    "We're hearing things like outright cancellations and conversations (on future tour dates) being paused until 2023 in some cases."

    https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-is-closed-for-business-concert-theatre-organizers-face-new-covid-hurdles-1.5753653


    All will be good for May here... March 14 - we go back to FULL CAPACITY.... 
    I am a bit more concerned for Quebec City... they seem to be a bit behind in terms of opening back up... but May should be good - certainly Sept.  
    As of now, March 14th should be back to full capacity but will they allow bar/food sales?

    The article hints that bands/artists may just cancel or reschedule for 2023, especially those who have had multiple reschedules. I mean these are the third Elton dates I think and he’s going to have to reschedule again. 
  • jimjam1982jimjam1982 AZ Posts: 1,434
    Ed's on the road next week. PJ social media confirmed.
     
    Any bands/artists who says they are canceling for covid is just outright lying at this point. They have shitty ticket sales is all. 
  • JojoRice said:
    Take this with a grain of salt but a guy on Facebook says that the Nashville show will take place over Memorial Day weekend. 
    That'd be awesome....
    Not really - check out Nashville hotel prices that weekend.  
    PJ: 2013: London (ON); Buffalo; 2014: Cincinnati; 2016: Sunrise, Miami, Toronto 1-2, Wrigley 2; 2018: London (UK) 1, Milan, Padova, Sea 2, Wrigley 1-2, Fenway 1-2; 2021: SHN, Ohana, Ohana Encore 1-2; 2022: LA 1-2, Phx, Oak 1-2, Fresno, Copenhagen, Hyde Park 1-2; Quebec, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto; MSG, Camden, Nashville, Louisville, St. Louis, OKC; 2023: St. Paul 1-2, Chicago 1-2; Fort Worth 2; Austin 1-2; 2024:  Vancouver 1-2, LV 1-2, LA 1-2, Napa, Barcelona 1-2
     
    EV Solo: 2017 Louisville and Franklin, 2018 Ohana, 2019 Innings Fest, Berlin, Düsseldorf, Dublin and Ohana; 2021 Ohana Friday (from beach) and Saturday; 2022 Earthlings Newark; 2023 Innings Fest and Benoraya 1-2.

    Gutted:  London 2 2018, Sacramento 2022, Noblesville 2023
  • ddeschlerddeschler Posts: 669
    Nashville always has exorbitant hotel rates.  Like cartel level pricing.  Way out of proportion to the level of importance of anything going on there.  Don't know what's up with that.  But I don't like it. 
    I've seen quite a few Pearl Jam shows.
  • GibsonGibson Toronto Posts: 2,652
    ddeschler said:
    Nashville always has exorbitant hotel rates.  Like cartel level pricing.  Way out of proportion to the level of importance of anything going on there.  Don't know what's up with that.  But I don't like it. 
    Agreed. I stayed about 10 minutes outside of Nashville for my visit. The hotel was adequate (safe, clean, but nothing extravagant) and it saved me $700-$1000 if I wanted something in the city. 

    Link: Hillside Crossing Nashville a Ramada by Wyndham


    It was a $10 uber into downtown and there was a bus stop about 2 minutes away that went straight to the arena.
    1998: Barrie  2000: Toronto  2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Toronto  2006: Toronto 1&2, Paris, Milan, Torino, Pistoia  2009: Calgary, Vancouver  2011: Canada  2013: London, Wrigley, Philly 1&2  2014: St. Louis, ACL 1, Detroit  2016: Lexington, Quebec, Ottawa, Toronto 1&2, Fenway 1&2, Wrigley 1&2  2017: EV - Louisville  2018: London 1&2, Milan, Padova, Rome, Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Wrigley 1&2, Fenway 1&2  2020: Toronto, Ottawa, Hamilton  2021: London 1&2  2022: Hamilton, Toronto  2023: Chicago 1&2, Noblesville  2024: Seattle 1&2, Noblesville, Wrigley 1&2

  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,952
    ddeschler said:
    Nashville always has exorbitant hotel rates.  Like cartel level pricing.  Way out of proportion to the level of importance of anything going on there.  Don't know what's up with that.  But I don't like it. 
    You’re spot on. It’s supply and demand which will level out eventually as they have hotels going up to meet the surge in tourism.  Until then, I’m glad I have family and friends to stay at within close proximity to downtown. 
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