Viruses / Vaccines

HughFreakingDillon

mrussel1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

man, my sarcasm meter must be on the fritz. 

double sarcasm is like a double negative.  We don't know which way to go. 

doesn't double sarcasm cancel out the original sarcasm? like in math where 2 negatives make it positive?

In that case,  you cut it in half then double it. 

sounds like the rules to "new sarcasm" they're teaching the kids these days. 

OnWis97

HughFreakingDillon said:

one week remote only. wow. I'm surprised. 

So is it a "post-holiday grace period" or something? I think that makes sense.

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Poncier said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

My premiums went up anywhere from say between 6% and 12% year over year prior to Obamacare. Once that went into effect, premiums went up closer to the rate of inflation, 2% to 4%, again with some years staying flat and no loss of benefits and even minor improvements. The only thing that really changed was the number of plans available went from 5 to 3, with one of those a PPC? that has crazy deductibles but if you're healthy and don't go to the doctor, is good, I guess? When I was a state employee 30 years ago, we had a choice of 5 or 6 plans. Now I believe its 2.

It seems to me that states that have embraced the concept of Obamacare via their exchanges and actively work to make them better, have done so and that that has been an overall improvement than the status quo or having millions uninsured, which we still do. That all said, I would't assume that my personal experience equates to "all employers plans are worse."

Clearly the larger the organization, the better negotiating power which makes one think governments would encourage enrollment and use in their plans on the exchanges rather than actively do things to undermine it, like what many repub states have done. I'm still waiting for that repub plan that is better, cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare. Is Obamacare perfect? No. But it was a place to start, to be improved upon over time via legislation and real world inputs and outcomes. But one party still doesn't want to participate and would just rather scream SOCIALISM.

So I guess, in closing, if you, mrussel and mace want better health insurance, find an employer who provides better health care benefits? Its not like you don't have choices and there's a lot of jobs open right now. And before you all get up in arms, I'm kidding. But its a shame, isn't it?

I said from teh beginning that I think premium increases have slowed teh past few years.  The rise was much more dramatic in the aughts.  I also don't think Obamacare has a single thing to do with it.  

What do you think had to do with it? Corporate healthcare benevolence? Seriously, I've had health insurance since 1989. It regularly got squashed, less benefits, more cost and less options. Until around 2014. Then it mellowed. Something changed. Dramatically.

Honestly don't know.  Insurance premiums are a mystery to me.  I'm very fortunate because health care is part of my contract so the increases don't affect me directly,  but the out of pocket stuff is still rising.  It's "co- insurance" now where each family member has a 2k deductible or 3k for the family. 

If you honestly don't know, how can you flatly dismiss Obamacare as potentially having something to do with it? Aren't the costs of insurance premiums partly driven by losses, i.e. the more uninsured, when using healthcare = losses, there are, the more the insured pay? So, it reasons that the more folks that have insurance, the less uninsured and the less the already insured have to pay?

Spunkie

Today's message from the BC Health Officer was to have all business and schools prepare for 1/3 of staff being absent due to illness. Then, she emphaszied the prioritizing of keeping schools, grocery stores, and hospitals open. 

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Poncier said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

My premiums went up anywhere from say between 6% and 12% year over year prior to Obamacare. Once that went into effect, premiums went up closer to the rate of inflation, 2% to 4%, again with some years staying flat and no loss of benefits and even minor improvements. The only thing that really changed was the number of plans available went from 5 to 3, with one of those a PPC? that has crazy deductibles but if you're healthy and don't go to the doctor, is good, I guess? When I was a state employee 30 years ago, we had a choice of 5 or 6 plans. Now I believe its 2.

It seems to me that states that have embraced the concept of Obamacare via their exchanges and actively work to make them better, have done so and that that has been an overall improvement than the status quo or having millions uninsured, which we still do. That all said, I would't assume that my personal experience equates to "all employers plans are worse."

Clearly the larger the organization, the better negotiating power which makes one think governments would encourage enrollment and use in their plans on the exchanges rather than actively do things to undermine it, like what many repub states have done. I'm still waiting for that repub plan that is better, cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare. Is Obamacare perfect? No. But it was a place to start, to be improved upon over time via legislation and real world inputs and outcomes. But one party still doesn't want to participate and would just rather scream SOCIALISM.

So I guess, in closing, if you, mrussel and mace want better health insurance, find an employer who provides better health care benefits? Its not like you don't have choices and there's a lot of jobs open right now. And before you all get up in arms, I'm kidding. But its a shame, isn't it?

I said from teh beginning that I think premium increases have slowed teh past few years.  The rise was much more dramatic in the aughts.  I also don't think Obamacare has a single thing to do with it.  

What do you think had to do with it? Corporate healthcare benevolence? Seriously, I've had health insurance since 1989. It regularly got squashed, less benefits, more cost and less options. Until around 2014. Then it mellowed. Something changed. Dramatically.

Honestly don't know.  Insurance premiums are a mystery to me.  I'm very fortunate because health care is part of my contract so the increases don't affect me directly,  but the out of pocket stuff is still rising.  It's "co- insurance" now where each family member has a 2k deductible or 3k for the family. 

If you honestly don't know, how can you flatly dismiss Obamacare as potentially having something to do with it? Aren't the costs of insurance premiums partly driven by losses, i.e. the more uninsured, when using healthcare = losses, there are, the more the insured pay? So, it reasons that the more folks that have insurance, the less uninsured and the less the already insured have to pay?

Losses are relegated to the pool of people.  For example, when I worked for a major bank, we were self insured.  So what affected our premiums was the usage of our employees.  What happened with Obamacare care pools was not relevant to our pricing.  Now we were so big, it was hard to see a big movement.  However, now I work for a company with a fraction of the employee base.  And I'm close to expenses, so when we have several people who have expensive issues, you can see how your usage from teh previous year affects this year's premiums.  

BTW - it is very common for large corps to be self insured.  They just hire Aetna and the others to administer the plan.  

HughFreakingDillon

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

one week remote only. wow. I'm surprised. 

So is it a "post-holiday grace period" or something? I think that makes sense.

they explained it more as a way to get the supplies needed into the hands of the schools; N95 masks, particularly, but I'm sure there's also the stop-gap angle to it for sure. 

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Poncier said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

My premiums went up anywhere from say between 6% and 12% year over year prior to Obamacare. Once that went into effect, premiums went up closer to the rate of inflation, 2% to 4%, again with some years staying flat and no loss of benefits and even minor improvements. The only thing that really changed was the number of plans available went from 5 to 3, with one of those a PPC? that has crazy deductibles but if you're healthy and don't go to the doctor, is good, I guess? When I was a state employee 30 years ago, we had a choice of 5 or 6 plans. Now I believe its 2.

It seems to me that states that have embraced the concept of Obamacare via their exchanges and actively work to make them better, have done so and that that has been an overall improvement than the status quo or having millions uninsured, which we still do. That all said, I would't assume that my personal experience equates to "all employers plans are worse."

Clearly the larger the organization, the better negotiating power which makes one think governments would encourage enrollment and use in their plans on the exchanges rather than actively do things to undermine it, like what many repub states have done. I'm still waiting for that repub plan that is better, cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare. Is Obamacare perfect? No. But it was a place to start, to be improved upon over time via legislation and real world inputs and outcomes. But one party still doesn't want to participate and would just rather scream SOCIALISM.

So I guess, in closing, if you, mrussel and mace want better health insurance, find an employer who provides better health care benefits? Its not like you don't have choices and there's a lot of jobs open right now. And before you all get up in arms, I'm kidding. But its a shame, isn't it?

I said from teh beginning that I think premium increases have slowed teh past few years.  The rise was much more dramatic in the aughts.  I also don't think Obamacare has a single thing to do with it.  

What do you think had to do with it? Corporate healthcare benevolence? Seriously, I've had health insurance since 1989. It regularly got squashed, less benefits, more cost and less options. Until around 2014. Then it mellowed. Something changed. Dramatically.

Honestly don't know.  Insurance premiums are a mystery to me.  I'm very fortunate because health care is part of my contract so the increases don't affect me directly,  but the out of pocket stuff is still rising.  It's "co- insurance" now where each family member has a 2k deductible or 3k for the family. 

If you honestly don't know, how can you flatly dismiss Obamacare as potentially having something to do with it? Aren't the costs of insurance premiums partly driven by losses, i.e. the more uninsured, when using healthcare = losses, there are, the more the insured pay? So, it reasons that the more folks that have insurance, the less uninsured and the less the already insured have to pay?

Losses are relegated to the pool of people.  For example, when I worked for a major bank, we were self insured.  So what affected our premiums was the usage of our employees.  What happened with Obamacare care pools was not relevant to our pricing.  Now we were so big, it was hard to see a big movement.  However, now I work for a company with a fraction of the employee base.  And I'm close to expenses, so when we have several people who have expensive issues, you can see how your usage from teh previous year affects this year's premiums.  

BTW - it is very common for large corps to be self insured.  They just hire Aetna and the others to administer the plan.  

But couldn't Obamacare pools have been relevant if your firm's insurance company was part of Obamacare and expanded its pool? Isn't that the point of almost all insurance companies, to spread the risk/losses among the most payees/insured as possible to increase profit (minimize losses while maximizing paying customers at whatever demographic cost)? Whether, auto, home, life, healthcare? Just different methodologies to spread the risk (ages of drivers, home locations, etc.)?

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Poncier said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

My premiums went up anywhere from say between 6% and 12% year over year prior to Obamacare. Once that went into effect, premiums went up closer to the rate of inflation, 2% to 4%, again with some years staying flat and no loss of benefits and even minor improvements. The only thing that really changed was the number of plans available went from 5 to 3, with one of those a PPC? that has crazy deductibles but if you're healthy and don't go to the doctor, is good, I guess? When I was a state employee 30 years ago, we had a choice of 5 or 6 plans. Now I believe its 2.

It seems to me that states that have embraced the concept of Obamacare via their exchanges and actively work to make them better, have done so and that that has been an overall improvement than the status quo or having millions uninsured, which we still do. That all said, I would't assume that my personal experience equates to "all employers plans are worse."

Clearly the larger the organization, the better negotiating power which makes one think governments would encourage enrollment and use in their plans on the exchanges rather than actively do things to undermine it, like what many repub states have done. I'm still waiting for that repub plan that is better, cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare. Is Obamacare perfect? No. But it was a place to start, to be improved upon over time via legislation and real world inputs and outcomes. But one party still doesn't want to participate and would just rather scream SOCIALISM.

So I guess, in closing, if you, mrussel and mace want better health insurance, find an employer who provides better health care benefits? Its not like you don't have choices and there's a lot of jobs open right now. And before you all get up in arms, I'm kidding. But its a shame, isn't it?

I said from teh beginning that I think premium increases have slowed teh past few years.  The rise was much more dramatic in the aughts.  I also don't think Obamacare has a single thing to do with it.  

What do you think had to do with it? Corporate healthcare benevolence? Seriously, I've had health insurance since 1989. It regularly got squashed, less benefits, more cost and less options. Until around 2014. Then it mellowed. Something changed. Dramatically.

Honestly don't know.  Insurance premiums are a mystery to me.  I'm very fortunate because health care is part of my contract so the increases don't affect me directly,  but the out of pocket stuff is still rising.  It's "co- insurance" now where each family member has a 2k deductible or 3k for the family. 

If you honestly don't know, how can you flatly dismiss Obamacare as potentially having something to do with it? Aren't the costs of insurance premiums partly driven by losses, i.e. the more uninsured, when using healthcare = losses, there are, the more the insured pay? So, it reasons that the more folks that have insurance, the less uninsured and the less the already insured have to pay?

Losses are relegated to the pool of people.  For example, when I worked for a major bank, we were self insured.  So what affected our premiums was the usage of our employees.  What happened with Obamacare care pools was not relevant to our pricing.  Now we were so big, it was hard to see a big movement.  However, now I work for a company with a fraction of the employee base.  And I'm close to expenses, so when we have several people who have expensive issues, you can see how your usage from teh previous year affects this year's premiums.  

BTW - it is very common for large corps to be self insured.  They just hire Aetna and the others to administer the plan.  

But couldn't Obamacare pools have been relevant if your firm's insurance company was part of Obamacare and expanded its pool? Isn't that the point of almost all insurance companies, to spread the risk/losses among the most payees/insured as possible to increase profit (minimize losses while maximizing paying customers at whatever demographic cost)? Whether, auto, home, life, healthcare? Just different methodologies to spread the risk (ages of drivers, home locations, etc.)?

No, I don't believe you can do that when it comes to self insured organizations.  We literally paid Aetna a service cost.  Now maybe you could argue that prices went up because doctors were overwhelmed with all the new people in the healthcare system thereby driving up overall costs that get passed down to consumers.  But I've never seen any data supporting that and again, to the point I thought you made earlier, since Obamacare the pace of your increases have slowed, not accelerated.  

Halifax2TheMax

Dammit Brandon! You suck, you should do more! Its all on you!

Prices are creeping up for popular over-the-counter coronavirus test kits, just as the omicron variant fuels a surge of infections.

The White House has touted frequent testing as a pillar of its pandemic strategy. But tests have become tough to come by in large swaths of the country, and a White House plan to deliver free kits to Americans has yet to come to fruition. A deal with the White House to sell at-home test kits at cost expired in December, and retailers such as Walmart and Kroger are raising prices on BinaxNOW at-home rapid test kits, the Wall Street Journal reported Tuesday.

Coronavirus live updates and omicron variant news - The Washington Post

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Poncier said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

My premiums went up anywhere from say between 6% and 12% year over year prior to Obamacare. Once that went into effect, premiums went up closer to the rate of inflation, 2% to 4%, again with some years staying flat and no loss of benefits and even minor improvements. The only thing that really changed was the number of plans available went from 5 to 3, with one of those a PPC? that has crazy deductibles but if you're healthy and don't go to the doctor, is good, I guess? When I was a state employee 30 years ago, we had a choice of 5 or 6 plans. Now I believe its 2.

It seems to me that states that have embraced the concept of Obamacare via their exchanges and actively work to make them better, have done so and that that has been an overall improvement than the status quo or having millions uninsured, which we still do. That all said, I would't assume that my personal experience equates to "all employers plans are worse."

Clearly the larger the organization, the better negotiating power which makes one think governments would encourage enrollment and use in their plans on the exchanges rather than actively do things to undermine it, like what many repub states have done. I'm still waiting for that repub plan that is better, cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare. Is Obamacare perfect? No. But it was a place to start, to be improved upon over time via legislation and real world inputs and outcomes. But one party still doesn't want to participate and would just rather scream SOCIALISM.

So I guess, in closing, if you, mrussel and mace want better health insurance, find an employer who provides better health care benefits? Its not like you don't have choices and there's a lot of jobs open right now. And before you all get up in arms, I'm kidding. But its a shame, isn't it?

I said from teh beginning that I think premium increases have slowed teh past few years.  The rise was much more dramatic in the aughts.  I also don't think Obamacare has a single thing to do with it.  

What do you think had to do with it? Corporate healthcare benevolence? Seriously, I've had health insurance since 1989. It regularly got squashed, less benefits, more cost and less options. Until around 2014. Then it mellowed. Something changed. Dramatically.

Honestly don't know.  Insurance premiums are a mystery to me.  I'm very fortunate because health care is part of my contract so the increases don't affect me directly,  but the out of pocket stuff is still rising.  It's "co- insurance" now where each family member has a 2k deductible or 3k for the family. 

If you honestly don't know, how can you flatly dismiss Obamacare as potentially having something to do with it? Aren't the costs of insurance premiums partly driven by losses, i.e. the more uninsured, when using healthcare = losses, there are, the more the insured pay? So, it reasons that the more folks that have insurance, the less uninsured and the less the already insured have to pay?

Losses are relegated to the pool of people.  For example, when I worked for a major bank, we were self insured.  So what affected our premiums was the usage of our employees.  What happened with Obamacare care pools was not relevant to our pricing.  Now we were so big, it was hard to see a big movement.  However, now I work for a company with a fraction of the employee base.  And I'm close to expenses, so when we have several people who have expensive issues, you can see how your usage from teh previous year affects this year's premiums.  

BTW - it is very common for large corps to be self insured.  They just hire Aetna and the others to administer the plan.  

But couldn't Obamacare pools have been relevant if your firm's insurance company was part of Obamacare and expanded its pool? Isn't that the point of almost all insurance companies, to spread the risk/losses among the most payees/insured as possible to increase profit (minimize losses while maximizing paying customers at whatever demographic cost)? Whether, auto, home, life, healthcare? Just different methodologies to spread the risk (ages of drivers, home locations, etc.)?

No, I don't believe you can do that when it comes to self insured organizations.  We literally paid Aetna a service cost.  Now maybe you could argue that prices went up because doctors were overwhelmed with all the new people in the healthcare system thereby driving up overall costs that get passed down to consumers.  But I've never seen any data supporting that and again, to the point I thought you made earlier, since Obamacare the pace of your increases have slowed, not accelerated.  

True, since Obamacare the pace of increase in cost for my premiums/co-pays have slowed or been flat. I mean, I expect inflation but not the 12%-16% increase in cost gouging and reduction in services that regularly occurred prior to 2014. Can you drop your employer's plan and go on the portal plan(s) or is that not allowed? And if you can, how do costs/coverage compare?

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Poncier said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

My premiums went up anywhere from say between 6% and 12% year over year prior to Obamacare. Once that went into effect, premiums went up closer to the rate of inflation, 2% to 4%, again with some years staying flat and no loss of benefits and even minor improvements. The only thing that really changed was the number of plans available went from 5 to 3, with one of those a PPC? that has crazy deductibles but if you're healthy and don't go to the doctor, is good, I guess? When I was a state employee 30 years ago, we had a choice of 5 or 6 plans. Now I believe its 2.

It seems to me that states that have embraced the concept of Obamacare via their exchanges and actively work to make them better, have done so and that that has been an overall improvement than the status quo or having millions uninsured, which we still do. That all said, I would't assume that my personal experience equates to "all employers plans are worse."

Clearly the larger the organization, the better negotiating power which makes one think governments would encourage enrollment and use in their plans on the exchanges rather than actively do things to undermine it, like what many repub states have done. I'm still waiting for that repub plan that is better, cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare. Is Obamacare perfect? No. But it was a place to start, to be improved upon over time via legislation and real world inputs and outcomes. But one party still doesn't want to participate and would just rather scream SOCIALISM.

So I guess, in closing, if you, mrussel and mace want better health insurance, find an employer who provides better health care benefits? Its not like you don't have choices and there's a lot of jobs open right now. And before you all get up in arms, I'm kidding. But its a shame, isn't it?

I said from teh beginning that I think premium increases have slowed teh past few years.  The rise was much more dramatic in the aughts.  I also don't think Obamacare has a single thing to do with it.  

What do you think had to do with it? Corporate healthcare benevolence? Seriously, I've had health insurance since 1989. It regularly got squashed, less benefits, more cost and less options. Until around 2014. Then it mellowed. Something changed. Dramatically.

Honestly don't know.  Insurance premiums are a mystery to me.  I'm very fortunate because health care is part of my contract so the increases don't affect me directly,  but the out of pocket stuff is still rising.  It's "co- insurance" now where each family member has a 2k deductible or 3k for the family. 

If you honestly don't know, how can you flatly dismiss Obamacare as potentially having something to do with it? Aren't the costs of insurance premiums partly driven by losses, i.e. the more uninsured, when using healthcare = losses, there are, the more the insured pay? So, it reasons that the more folks that have insurance, the less uninsured and the less the already insured have to pay?

Losses are relegated to the pool of people.  For example, when I worked for a major bank, we were self insured.  So what affected our premiums was the usage of our employees.  What happened with Obamacare care pools was not relevant to our pricing.  Now we were so big, it was hard to see a big movement.  However, now I work for a company with a fraction of the employee base.  And I'm close to expenses, so when we have several people who have expensive issues, you can see how your usage from teh previous year affects this year's premiums.  

BTW - it is very common for large corps to be self insured.  They just hire Aetna and the others to administer the plan.  

But couldn't Obamacare pools have been relevant if your firm's insurance company was part of Obamacare and expanded its pool? Isn't that the point of almost all insurance companies, to spread the risk/losses among the most payees/insured as possible to increase profit (minimize losses while maximizing paying customers at whatever demographic cost)? Whether, auto, home, life, healthcare? Just different methodologies to spread the risk (ages of drivers, home locations, etc.)?

No, I don't believe you can do that when it comes to self insured organizations.  We literally paid Aetna a service cost.  Now maybe you could argue that prices went up because doctors were overwhelmed with all the new people in the healthcare system thereby driving up overall costs that get passed down to consumers.  But I've never seen any data supporting that and again, to the point I thought you made earlier, since Obamacare the pace of your increases have slowed, not accelerated.  

True, since Obamacare the pace of increase in cost for my premiums/co-pays have slowed or been flat. I mean, I expect inflation but not the 12%-16% increase in cost gouging and reduction in services that regularly occurred prior to 2014. Can you drop your employer's plan and go on the portal plan(s) or is that not allowed? And if you can, how do costs/coverage compare?

I would never do that personally, but I also don't believe you can if your employer offers it.  But I'm sure someone else here knows for sure.  I've been an advocate for the gov't to create a medicare for people under 65 so you could buy into gov't administered healthcare.  Let the market decide whether private or medicare is a better option. 

Poncier

gimmesometruth27 said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

man, my sarcasm meter must be on the fritz. 

double sarcasm is like a double negative.  We don't know which way to go. 

doesn't double sarcasm cancel out the original sarcasm? like in math where 2 negatives make it positive?

Only for those on double secret probation.

gimmesometruth27

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

man, my sarcasm meter must be on the fritz. 

double sarcasm is like a double negative.  We don't know which way to go. 

doesn't double sarcasm cancel out the original sarcasm? like in math where 2 negatives make it positive?

In that case,  you cut it in half then double it. 

sounds like the rules to "new sarcasm" they're teaching the kids these days. 

all i have to say is "is our children learning?"

gimmesometruth27

Poncier said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

man, my sarcasm meter must be on the fritz. 

double sarcasm is like a double negative.  We don't know which way to go. 

doesn't double sarcasm cancel out the original sarcasm? like in math where 2 negatives make it positive?

Only for those on double secret probation.

we were on double secret probation once. it sucked. we couldn't do anything remotely fun or we would get kicked off of campus.

Halifax2TheMax

And now Hillary controls them all!

All nine Supreme Court justices have received a Covid-19 booster shot - CNNPolitics

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Poncier said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

My premiums went up anywhere from say between 6% and 12% year over year prior to Obamacare. Once that went into effect, premiums went up closer to the rate of inflation, 2% to 4%, again with some years staying flat and no loss of benefits and even minor improvements. The only thing that really changed was the number of plans available went from 5 to 3, with one of those a PPC? that has crazy deductibles but if you're healthy and don't go to the doctor, is good, I guess? When I was a state employee 30 years ago, we had a choice of 5 or 6 plans. Now I believe its 2.

It seems to me that states that have embraced the concept of Obamacare via their exchanges and actively work to make them better, have done so and that that has been an overall improvement than the status quo or having millions uninsured, which we still do. That all said, I would't assume that my personal experience equates to "all employers plans are worse."

Clearly the larger the organization, the better negotiating power which makes one think governments would encourage enrollment and use in their plans on the exchanges rather than actively do things to undermine it, like what many repub states have done. I'm still waiting for that repub plan that is better, cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare. Is Obamacare perfect? No. But it was a place to start, to be improved upon over time via legislation and real world inputs and outcomes. But one party still doesn't want to participate and would just rather scream SOCIALISM.

So I guess, in closing, if you, mrussel and mace want better health insurance, find an employer who provides better health care benefits? Its not like you don't have choices and there's a lot of jobs open right now. And before you all get up in arms, I'm kidding. But its a shame, isn't it?

I said from teh beginning that I think premium increases have slowed teh past few years.  The rise was much more dramatic in the aughts.  I also don't think Obamacare has a single thing to do with it.  

What do you think had to do with it? Corporate healthcare benevolence? Seriously, I've had health insurance since 1989. It regularly got squashed, less benefits, more cost and less options. Until around 2014. Then it mellowed. Something changed. Dramatically.

Honestly don't know.  Insurance premiums are a mystery to me.  I'm very fortunate because health care is part of my contract so the increases don't affect me directly,  but the out of pocket stuff is still rising.  It's "co- insurance" now where each family member has a 2k deductible or 3k for the family. 

I’d say they still affect you directly. When premiums go up and your employer pays the in lease, less money for raises for the employees.

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Poncier said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

My premiums went up anywhere from say between 6% and 12% year over year prior to Obamacare. Once that went into effect, premiums went up closer to the rate of inflation, 2% to 4%, again with some years staying flat and no loss of benefits and even minor improvements. The only thing that really changed was the number of plans available went from 5 to 3, with one of those a PPC? that has crazy deductibles but if you're healthy and don't go to the doctor, is good, I guess? When I was a state employee 30 years ago, we had a choice of 5 or 6 plans. Now I believe its 2.

It seems to me that states that have embraced the concept of Obamacare via their exchanges and actively work to make them better, have done so and that that has been an overall improvement than the status quo or having millions uninsured, which we still do. That all said, I would't assume that my personal experience equates to "all employers plans are worse."

Clearly the larger the organization, the better negotiating power which makes one think governments would encourage enrollment and use in their plans on the exchanges rather than actively do things to undermine it, like what many repub states have done. I'm still waiting for that repub plan that is better, cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare. Is Obamacare perfect? No. But it was a place to start, to be improved upon over time via legislation and real world inputs and outcomes. But one party still doesn't want to participate and would just rather scream SOCIALISM.

So I guess, in closing, if you, mrussel and mace want better health insurance, find an employer who provides better health care benefits? Its not like you don't have choices and there's a lot of jobs open right now. And before you all get up in arms, I'm kidding. But its a shame, isn't it?

I said from teh beginning that I think premium increases have slowed teh past few years.  The rise was much more dramatic in the aughts.  I also don't think Obamacare has a single thing to do with it.  

What do you think had to do with it? Corporate healthcare benevolence? Seriously, I've had health insurance since 1989. It regularly got squashed, less benefits, more cost and less options. Until around 2014. Then it mellowed. Something changed. Dramatically.

Honestly don't know.  Insurance premiums are a mystery to me.  I'm very fortunate because health care is part of my contract so the increases don't affect me directly,  but the out of pocket stuff is still rising.  It's "co- insurance" now where each family member has a 2k deductible or 3k for the family. 

If you honestly don't know, how can you flatly dismiss Obamacare as potentially having something to do with it? Aren't the costs of insurance premiums partly driven by losses, i.e. the more uninsured, when using healthcare = losses, there are, the more the insured pay? So, it reasons that the more folks that have insurance, the less uninsured and the less the already insured have to pay?

Losses are relegated to the pool of people.  For example, when I worked for a major bank, we were self insured.  So what affected our premiums was the usage of our employees.  What happened with Obamacare care pools was not relevant to our pricing.  Now we were so big, it was hard to see a big movement.  However, now I work for a company with a fraction of the employee base.  And I'm close to expenses, so when we have several people who have expensive issues, you can see how your usage from teh previous year affects this year's premiums.  

BTW - it is very common for large corps to be self insured.  They just hire Aetna and the others to administer the plan.  

But couldn't Obamacare pools have been relevant if your firm's insurance company was part of Obamacare and expanded its pool? Isn't that the point of almost all insurance companies, to spread the risk/losses among the most payees/insured as possible to increase profit (minimize losses while maximizing paying customers at whatever demographic cost)? Whether, auto, home, life, healthcare? Just different methodologies to spread the risk (ages of drivers, home locations, etc.)?

No, I don't believe you can do that when it comes to self insured organizations.  We literally paid Aetna a service cost.  Now maybe you could argue that prices went up because doctors were overwhelmed with all the new people in the healthcare system thereby driving up overall costs that get passed down to consumers.  But I've never seen any data supporting that and again, to the point I thought you made earlier, since Obamacare the pace of your increases have slowed, not accelerated.  

True, since Obamacare the pace of increase in cost for my premiums/co-pays have slowed or been flat. I mean, I expect inflation but not the 12%-16% increase in cost gouging and reduction in services that regularly occurred prior to 2014. Can you drop your employer's plan and go on the portal plan(s) or is that not allowed? And if you can, how do costs/coverage compare?

We looked into that several years ago since some plans that looked comparable to our coverage were significantly less. And I mean less by comparing our half that we pay and not counting what our employer contributes, it was still less.  But we didn’t qualify since our employer offered coverage. 

I blame the insurance companies. They know they can charge whatever they want and we essentially have to pay it. We have to use them because we don’t qualify for the state exchange and by law we have to have coverage. So why not charge $2200 for a plan I’m forced into that is crap, legally have to buy, and is double what I could probably get on my own.

bootlegger10

HughFreakingDillon said:

bootlegger10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

bootlegger10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

bootlegger10 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Per above. The democratic governor is requesting a proper count of hospitalizations for Covid versus people who just happen to be Covid positive but hospitalized for different reasons.  You would think that is a silly question, but sadly it isn’t and we are not being provided with the correct numbers.  I am sure they are still high, but the governor said in the article that AS MUCH as 50% of patients may have been hospitalized for non Covid reasons.  

I can’t remember which thread but Fauci said something similar about children being hospitalized. 

Crap like this is why people don’t trust the government and the media.  This crap supports the far right argument that the government is playing up the virus and trying to control behavior…yada yada yada.  We shouldn’t be having these issues about hospitalization numbers this far into the pandemic.  It screams of an agenda to purposefully overstate the numbers.

Bump so this doesn’t get lost in all of the health care cost debate.  I remember any time someone came on here and said that hospitals were coding deaths or patients as Covid when Covid wasn’t the issue that they were some far right conspiracy theorist.  Here we are though two years into the pandemic and the Democrat governor is asking about the % of those hospitalized with Covid but not because of Covid and that the number may be as much as 50%.

50% of hospital use for covid is bad....

That wasn’t the question she was asking.   What she was asking about is if 100 patients are hospitalized for Covid, how many of those are actually hospitalized because of Covid or because they happen to have Covid but are being treated for something completely different.  The dem governor has heard it may be as much of 50% of the 100 that may be in the hospital but are not there because of Covid.  That is an important number to know.  50% may still be high but when you give false or misleading info to the public then you deserve to be questioned on it.  It is hard to debate conspiracy theorists when they point to stories like this one.  

Yes saying that 100% of hospital occupants are there because of covid would likely be incorrect....but if 50% are there because of covid that is really bad. 30% is bad....even 25% would be alarming

It is an important number because we should be working with accurate information.  50%=bad

It begs the follow-up question... how many of the 800k people that have died from COVID actually died from COVID or from some other non-COVID issue?   Is it 750k?  Is it 600k?  It is still a lot whatever it is but we should be acting on accurate information.  Hospitalizations are basically the main driver of whether we shut our economy down or not.  That is a big deal.  

How is the governor of New York to decide vaccination requirements, event attendance limits, etc... when hospitalizations may be overstated by 50%?   There is a push to trust everything from the government on this and I'm glad that a Democrat isn't blindly following the narrative.  If those actually hospitalized due to COVID are closer to what we typically see with a bad flu season, then perhaps we don't take as extreme measures because we never did before.  Regardless of the decisions, the public should be informed of the right data to judge the decisions made by the government.

I think that would be a very difficult number to provide accurately; I mean, so many people have a co morbidity; do you report people who are 100% otherwise healthy with covid only? because people who died as a result of covid who also had, say, cancer, may have actually survived the cancer, but being so vulnerable from the disease made them succumb to covid. does that get reported as a covid death, or cancer death? I'd say covid. 

I absolutely do agree with you, though, that more accurate, trustworthy reporting should be out there. I recall for months and months that Manitoba Health was only reporting the number of people in ICU. Which was alarming to me, since it was nearing capacity. But then when they actually broke it out as Covid ICU and "regular" ICU, the number was cut 4-fold. That makes a difference to me. 

Tough call for sure in some cases. I would say you could categorize into a few buckets:

- Died from Covid (no significant underlying issues)
- Died with Covid (clear that cause of death was not related to Covid)
- Died from Covid complications (already in a vulnerable state)

At the beginning of the pandemic I was saying to trust the science and the doctors as I am not an expert.  It just seems like every few weeks the leaders or main health leaders do something to reduce the amount of trust or confidence I have. 

I just can’t see how this far into the pandemic we are making decisions with grossly incorrect or misleading information.

brianlux

1.08 MILLION new cases in the U.S. today.  Very discouraging news.

Stay safe, all.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/04/us-global-record-more-than-1m-daily-covid-cases

US reports global record of more than 1m daily Covid cases

Total of 1.08 million people test positive across country, a figure largely driven by Omicron variant

As the highly transmissible Omicron variant wreaks havoc in the US, more than 1.08 million people across the country tested positive for Covid-19 on Monday – a global daily record, data from Johns Hopkins University revealed.

The deluge of infections is forcing government officials, employers and citizens to weigh their risk tolerance as Americans enter year three of a devastating pandemic that has upended lives and livelihoods.

Although evidence suggests Omicron is generally more mild and less lethal than other strains, the volume of new cases has been followed by an increase in hospitalizations, threatening to once again overwhelm beleaguered hospitals.

Medical experts are sounding the alarm that the Omicron wave could be particularly harmful to children, as pediatric admissions of patients with Covid-19 reach record highs.

lastexitlondon

What i can't understand is.
My whole family except my mum and us 4 in this house have had covid over Christmas.  Now my brother and his wife are alcoholics  and smoke a pack a day.  High b.p.Double vaccinated  with different  vaccines. AZ and pfizer.
Not one symptom. 
The others very  mild . One unvaccinated  had it twice. Worse 2nd time and ill 10 days.
Reading  above about children  worrys me. But how can the ones with poor health  have no symptoms.