Viruses / Vaccines

Spunkie

I figured BC pulled this stunt to appease the union. And spread out the largely unvaxxed hospitalizations a wee bit. I imagine having resources like rapid tests might have changed our course of action.

HughFreakingDillon

in about 20 minutes manitoba is going to close schools grades 7-12 for January. at least that's what's expected to be announced. 

lastexitlondon

I wish they  would shut them here. Tomorrow  it all starts  again  back into the shit storm we go.

Spunkie

HughFreakingDillon said:

in about 20 minutes manitoba is going to close schools grades 7-12 for January. at least that's what's expected to be announced. 

Our health miniister regularily points out that BC's pandemic is different from others. For instance, Quebec is up the creek because of a later delta onset. Isn't that the same in Winnipeg?

A whole month away... jeez! Our minister thinks its better to group them and keep track of their same contacts rather than letting them run around free.

Spunkie

lastexitlondon said:

I wish they  would shut them here. Tomorrow  it all starts  again  back into the shit storm we go.

I remember feeling that way in other waves. But I'm not as afraid with this variant and vaccines that prevent severe illness.

HughFreakingDillon

tish said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

in about 20 minutes manitoba is going to close schools grades 7-12 for January. at least that's what's expected to be announced. 

Our health miniister regularily points out that BC's pandemic is different from others. For instance, Quebec is up the creek because of a later delta onset. Isn't that the same in Winnipeg?

A whole month away... jeez! Our minister thinks its better to group them and keep track of their same contacts rather than letting them run around free.

I'm not really sure. I believe most of our cases right now are all delta. but we also typically felt the "current wave" later than most. 

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

HughFreakingDillon

one week remote only. wow. I'm surprised. 

Poncier

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

Halifax2TheMax

Poncier said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

My premiums went up anywhere from say between 6% and 12% year over year prior to Obamacare. Once that went into effect, premiums went up closer to the rate of inflation, 2% to 4%, again with some years staying flat and no loss of benefits and even minor improvements. The only thing that really changed was the number of plans available went from 5 to 3, with one of those a PPC? that has crazy deductibles but if you're healthy and don't go to the doctor, is good, I guess? When I was a state employee 30 years ago, we had a choice of 5 or 6 plans. Now I believe its 2.

It seems to me that states that have embraced the concept of Obamacare via their exchanges and actively work to make them better, have done so and that that has been an overall improvement than the status quo or having millions uninsured, which we still do. That all said, I would't assume that my personal experience equates to "all employers plans are worse."

Clearly the larger the organization, the better negotiating power which makes one think governments would encourage enrollment and use in their plans on the exchanges rather than actively do things to undermine it, like what many repub states have done. I'm still waiting for that repub plan that is better, cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare. Is Obamacare perfect? No. But it was a place to start, to be improved upon over time via legislation and real world inputs and outcomes. But one party still doesn't want to participate and would just rather scream SOCIALISM.

So I guess, in closing, if you, mrussel and mace want better health insurance, find an employer who provides better health care benefits? Its not like you don't have choices and there's a lot of jobs open right now. And before you all get up in arms, I'm kidding. But its a shame, isn't it?

mrussel1

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

tish said:

Ask yourself: while Canadian children lose the social and academic benefits of in-person schooling this week, what unnecessary freedoms are you enjoying? A trip to the mall, dinner with friends, or perhaps a movie night out?

What's your point?  Should we not go out dinner because Canadian kids aren't in school?

So when Canadians kids are locked out of school you’ve gone out to dinner?  Shaking my head…

why should his life get altered when kids from another country are told to stay home?

I believe it was sarcasm...

HughFreakingDillon

man, my sarcasm meter must be on the fritz. 

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

Poncier said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

My premiums went up anywhere from say between 6% and 12% year over year prior to Obamacare. Once that went into effect, premiums went up closer to the rate of inflation, 2% to 4%, again with some years staying flat and no loss of benefits and even minor improvements. The only thing that really changed was the number of plans available went from 5 to 3, with one of those a PPC? that has crazy deductibles but if you're healthy and don't go to the doctor, is good, I guess? When I was a state employee 30 years ago, we had a choice of 5 or 6 plans. Now I believe its 2.

It seems to me that states that have embraced the concept of Obamacare via their exchanges and actively work to make them better, have done so and that that has been an overall improvement than the status quo or having millions uninsured, which we still do. That all said, I would't assume that my personal experience equates to "all employers plans are worse."

Clearly the larger the organization, the better negotiating power which makes one think governments would encourage enrollment and use in their plans on the exchanges rather than actively do things to undermine it, like what many repub states have done. I'm still waiting for that repub plan that is better, cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare. Is Obamacare perfect? No. But it was a place to start, to be improved upon over time via legislation and real world inputs and outcomes. But one party still doesn't want to participate and would just rather scream SOCIALISM.

So I guess, in closing, if you, mrussel and mace want better health insurance, find an employer who provides better health care benefits? Its not like you don't have choices and there's a lot of jobs open right now. And before you all get up in arms, I'm kidding. But its a shame, isn't it?

I said from teh beginning that I think premium increases have slowed teh past few years.  The rise was much more dramatic in the aughts.  I also don't think Obamacare has a single thing to do with it.  

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

man, my sarcasm meter must be on the fritz. 

Yep, time to go Hugh...

This too was sarcasm

mrussel1

HughFreakingDillon said:

man, my sarcasm meter must be on the fritz. 

double sarcasm is like a double negative.  We don't know which way to go. 

HughFreakingDillon

I think I am just able to detect it from some and not from others....for various biased reasons.....

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Poncier said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

My premiums went up anywhere from say between 6% and 12% year over year prior to Obamacare. Once that went into effect, premiums went up closer to the rate of inflation, 2% to 4%, again with some years staying flat and no loss of benefits and even minor improvements. The only thing that really changed was the number of plans available went from 5 to 3, with one of those a PPC? that has crazy deductibles but if you're healthy and don't go to the doctor, is good, I guess? When I was a state employee 30 years ago, we had a choice of 5 or 6 plans. Now I believe its 2.

It seems to me that states that have embraced the concept of Obamacare via their exchanges and actively work to make them better, have done so and that that has been an overall improvement than the status quo or having millions uninsured, which we still do. That all said, I would't assume that my personal experience equates to "all employers plans are worse."

Clearly the larger the organization, the better negotiating power which makes one think governments would encourage enrollment and use in their plans on the exchanges rather than actively do things to undermine it, like what many repub states have done. I'm still waiting for that repub plan that is better, cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare. Is Obamacare perfect? No. But it was a place to start, to be improved upon over time via legislation and real world inputs and outcomes. But one party still doesn't want to participate and would just rather scream SOCIALISM.

So I guess, in closing, if you, mrussel and mace want better health insurance, find an employer who provides better health care benefits? Its not like you don't have choices and there's a lot of jobs open right now. And before you all get up in arms, I'm kidding. But its a shame, isn't it?

I said from teh beginning that I think premium increases have slowed teh past few years.  The rise was much more dramatic in the aughts.  I also don't think Obamacare has a single thing to do with it.  

What do you think had to do with it? Corporate healthcare benevolence? Seriously, I've had health insurance since 1989. It regularly got squashed, less benefits, more cost and less options. Until around 2014. Then it mellowed. Something changed. Dramatically.

gimmesometruth27

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

man, my sarcasm meter must be on the fritz. 

double sarcasm is like a double negative.  We don't know which way to go. 

doesn't double sarcasm cancel out the original sarcasm? like in math where 2 negatives make it positive?

mrussel1

gimmesometruth27 said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

man, my sarcasm meter must be on the fritz. 

double sarcasm is like a double negative.  We don't know which way to go. 

doesn't double sarcasm cancel out the original sarcasm? like in math where 2 negatives make it positive?

In that case,  you cut it in half then double it. 

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Poncier said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

For me personally I would agree with mrussel. When we first moved to Colorado 9 years ago a family plan was about half what it costs now and the coverage was way better. Deductibles and copays are high, medications are ridiculous. We pay $250 once a month for Humira now, which used to be $30. Every time we fill prescriptions I ask what the cash price is because I find a good chunk of the time it’s actually cheaper paying the cash price than it is paying the agreed upon copay, which seems absolutely ridiculous to pay thousands in premiums only to have it cheaper to not go through it.
That would be like paying $1200 a month for car insurance. Then when you go to repair your car the mechanic says if you use your insurance it’s $500 to fix your car, but if you just do cash I can do it for $100. And it’s not the mechanic setting the price, it’s your own insurance company. Why even have it then?

You and mrussel personally, not "all employer plans are worse." That's what I'm implying. Does my personal experience mean all employer  health plans are better? Or not, because either of yours and mrussel's is worse?

I'm in the boat with mace and mrussel. Honestly, I think you are the outlier faxxy. Premiums have gone up consistently for me (and everyone at my company) and pretty much everyone I speak with about the subject, both work contacts and friends/family. And the other consistent thing is coverage getting worse while deductibles and copays are rising.

My premiums went up anywhere from say between 6% and 12% year over year prior to Obamacare. Once that went into effect, premiums went up closer to the rate of inflation, 2% to 4%, again with some years staying flat and no loss of benefits and even minor improvements. The only thing that really changed was the number of plans available went from 5 to 3, with one of those a PPC? that has crazy deductibles but if you're healthy and don't go to the doctor, is good, I guess? When I was a state employee 30 years ago, we had a choice of 5 or 6 plans. Now I believe its 2.

It seems to me that states that have embraced the concept of Obamacare via their exchanges and actively work to make them better, have done so and that that has been an overall improvement than the status quo or having millions uninsured, which we still do. That all said, I would't assume that my personal experience equates to "all employers plans are worse."

Clearly the larger the organization, the better negotiating power which makes one think governments would encourage enrollment and use in their plans on the exchanges rather than actively do things to undermine it, like what many repub states have done. I'm still waiting for that repub plan that is better, cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare. Is Obamacare perfect? No. But it was a place to start, to be improved upon over time via legislation and real world inputs and outcomes. But one party still doesn't want to participate and would just rather scream SOCIALISM.

So I guess, in closing, if you, mrussel and mace want better health insurance, find an employer who provides better health care benefits? Its not like you don't have choices and there's a lot of jobs open right now. And before you all get up in arms, I'm kidding. But its a shame, isn't it?

I said from teh beginning that I think premium increases have slowed teh past few years.  The rise was much more dramatic in the aughts.  I also don't think Obamacare has a single thing to do with it.  

What do you think had to do with it? Corporate healthcare benevolence? Seriously, I've had health insurance since 1989. It regularly got squashed, less benefits, more cost and less options. Until around 2014. Then it mellowed. Something changed. Dramatically.

Honestly don't know.  Insurance premiums are a mystery to me.  I'm very fortunate because health care is part of my contract so the increases don't affect me directly,  but the out of pocket stuff is still rising.  It's "co- insurance" now where each family member has a 2k deductible or 3k for the family.