Viruses / Vaccines

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Meltdown99 said:

Perhaps people should not discuss socialized healthcare in Canada unless they used it…

Because for the amount of taxes we pay in this country we are getting cheated…

And those that aren't in the US system shouldn't envy it.  It sucks.

Our care is wonderful, I'm sure it's the best or among the best in teh world.  The issue is the cost, which is because we have the insurance companies sitting in the middle, taking their vig.  I would not trade our care for anything in the world. 

Yet we are ranked 37th in the world.  

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

Wow.  My obamacare has gone up 10-20% in cost every year.  Lowest was a 13% increase one year...

The effect of Obamacare on my employer provided healthcare (2/3-1/3) slowed the annual increase in cost, year over year, with some years being flat but with no loss in benefits. I’m not in Obamacare, to clarify.

Yes that is great for company insurance.  For what I have read, the drastic increases were to get up to par with the subsidizing costs.  My income bracket says I can afford X and that helps out the others in the system that do not make what I do.

What drastic increases are you referring to and for which type of insurance, private employer provided, individual employed or Obamacare? I’m not understanding.

Since obamacare you said that your insurance has not gone up much.  You have a company provided healthcare option.  As of 2014 I have had a private obamacare policy and while you have not seen increases I have seen my rates go up every year form 13% to as high as 22%.

Gern Blansten

Zod said:

Gern Blansten said:

Meltdown99 said:

Perhaps people should not discuss socialized healthcare in Canada unless they used it…

Because for the amount of taxes we pay in this country we are getting cheated…

And those that aren't in the US system shouldn't envy it.  It sucks.

As a Canadian I look on the US system as a system of means.  If you have the means it can be a great system, if you don't have the means it can leave you bankrupt, or prevent you from seeking help.

I'm struggling up here in Canada.  Our health care system has fallen apart.  Before Covid you couldn't get a family doctor (GP).  You're only solution was a walkin clinic, but they usually had 3 or 4 hour line ups.   If you need something operated on, it could take months or years to get from specialist to an operating table.   Now with Covid, walk in clinics are are write off too.   The only way to see a doctor is on videochat apps.   We're starting to see the ramifications.   People are dying because they're procedures (or cancer treatments) are getting delayed.  People don't have doctors to see, so cancers aren't being caught until much later when they aren't as treatable.

I keep asking myself... am I better off with the Canadian system?   If I paid $30000 income tax and 40% of our tax dollars goes to health care, how much coverage would $12,000/year buy me in insurance coverage in the US?   Or if I could opt not to contribute, how much would need to top it up to get decent insurance?

The Canadian system is broken and we're facing a head on crisis with trying to maintain support for our aging population... sigh...

I don't doubt that there are horror stories all over. We have them as well. 

Obamacare has made things better for sure. Now lower income people without means can get coverage but they will struggle with the deductibles and out of pocket costs.  And god forbid you need an expense prescription that isn't covered.

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

Wow.  My obamacare has gone up 10-20% in cost every year.  Lowest was a 13% increase one year...

The effect of Obamacare on my employer provided healthcare (2/3-1/3) slowed the annual increase in cost, year over year, with some years being flat but with no loss in benefits. I’m not in Obamacare, to clarify.

Yes that is great for company insurance.  For what I have read, the drastic increases were to get up to par with the subsidizing costs.  My income bracket says I can afford X and that helps out the others in the system that do not make what I do.

What drastic increases are you referring to and for which type of insurance, private employer provided, individual employed or Obamacare? I’m not understanding.

Since obamacare you said that your insurance has not gone up much.  You have a company provided healthcare option.  As of 2014 I have had a private obamacare policy and while you have not seen increases I have seen my rates go up every year form 13% to as high as 22%.

Gotcha ya.

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Meltdown99 said:

Perhaps people should not discuss socialized healthcare in Canada unless they used it…

Because for the amount of taxes we pay in this country we are getting cheated…

And those that aren't in the US system shouldn't envy it.  It sucks.

Our care is wonderful, I'm sure it's the best or among the best in teh world.  The issue is the cost, which is because we have the insurance companies sitting in the middle, taking their vig.  I would not trade our care for anything in the world. 

Yet we are ranked 37th in the world.  

I don't know what you're looking at, but this analysis has US as #2 for the actual "care" process.  It ranks lower in equity, access and cost which is not a surprise.  But my point was specifically about the care provided by doctors and nurses.  

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly

And according to this article, the US has 4 of the 5 top five hospitals in the world.  https://www.newsweek.com/best-hospitals-2021

We also have several of the best research hospitals in the world, although I couldn't find a link for that. 

Gern Blansten

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world

I was looking at WHO rankings.  I guess the US is 18 now...but Canada is 13

Gern Blansten

Those Scandinavian countries know how to run it.

bootlegger10

bootlegger10 said:

Per above. The democratic governor is requesting a proper count of hospitalizations for Covid versus people who just happen to be Covid positive but hospitalized for different reasons.  You would think that is a silly question, but sadly it isn’t and we are not being provided with the correct numbers.  I am sure they are still high, but the governor said in the article that AS MUCH as 50% of patients may have been hospitalized for non Covid reasons.  

I can’t remember which thread but Fauci said something similar about children being hospitalized. 

Crap like this is why people don’t trust the government and the media.  This crap supports the far right argument that the government is playing up the virus and trying to control behavior…yada yada yada.  We shouldn’t be having these issues about hospitalization numbers this far into the pandemic.  It screams of an agenda to purposefully overstate the numbers.

Bump so this doesn’t get lost in all of the health care cost debate.  I remember any time someone came on here and said that hospitals were coding deaths or patients as Covid when Covid wasn’t the issue that they were some far right conspiracy theorist.  Here we are though two years into the pandemic and the Democrat governor is asking about the % of those hospitalized with Covid but not because of Covid and that the number may be as much as 50%.

Gern Blansten

bootlegger10 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Per above. The democratic governor is requesting a proper count of hospitalizations for Covid versus people who just happen to be Covid positive but hospitalized for different reasons.  You would think that is a silly question, but sadly it isn’t and we are not being provided with the correct numbers.  I am sure they are still high, but the governor said in the article that AS MUCH as 50% of patients may have been hospitalized for non Covid reasons.  

I can’t remember which thread but Fauci said something similar about children being hospitalized. 

Crap like this is why people don’t trust the government and the media.  This crap supports the far right argument that the government is playing up the virus and trying to control behavior…yada yada yada.  We shouldn’t be having these issues about hospitalization numbers this far into the pandemic.  It screams of an agenda to purposefully overstate the numbers.

Bump so this doesn’t get lost in all of the health care cost debate.  I remember any time someone came on here and said that hospitals were coding deaths or patients as Covid when Covid wasn’t the issue that they were some far right conspiracy theorist.  Here we are though two years into the pandemic and the Democrat governor is asking about the % of those hospitalized with Covid but not because of Covid and that the number may be as much as 50%.

50% of hospital use for covid is bad....

bootlegger10

Gern Blansten said:

bootlegger10 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Per above. The democratic governor is requesting a proper count of hospitalizations for Covid versus people who just happen to be Covid positive but hospitalized for different reasons.  You would think that is a silly question, but sadly it isn’t and we are not being provided with the correct numbers.  I am sure they are still high, but the governor said in the article that AS MUCH as 50% of patients may have been hospitalized for non Covid reasons.  

I can’t remember which thread but Fauci said something similar about children being hospitalized. 

Crap like this is why people don’t trust the government and the media.  This crap supports the far right argument that the government is playing up the virus and trying to control behavior…yada yada yada.  We shouldn’t be having these issues about hospitalization numbers this far into the pandemic.  It screams of an agenda to purposefully overstate the numbers.

Bump so this doesn’t get lost in all of the health care cost debate.  I remember any time someone came on here and said that hospitals were coding deaths or patients as Covid when Covid wasn’t the issue that they were some far right conspiracy theorist.  Here we are though two years into the pandemic and the Democrat governor is asking about the % of those hospitalized with Covid but not because of Covid and that the number may be as much as 50%.

50% of hospital use for covid is bad....

That wasn’t the question she was asking.   What she was asking about is if 100 patients are hospitalized for Covid, how many of those are actually hospitalized because of Covid or because they happen to have Covid but are being treated for something completely different.  The dem governor has heard it may be as much of 50% of the 100 that may be in the hospital but are not there because of Covid.  That is an important number to know.  50% may still be high but when you give false or misleading info to the public then you deserve to be questioned on it.  It is hard to debate conspiracy theorists when they point to stories like this one.  

dignin

PJNB said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

dignin said:

tish said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-sars-cov-2-variants-technical-briefings

Today's primary source UK data on vaccine efficacy with omicron and child vaccine data.

Thanks for this Tish.

I also saw this today.

COVID-19: U.S. children hospitalized in record numbers as vaccinations lag


"During the week of Dec. 22-28, an average of 378 children 17 and under were admitted per day to hospitals with the coronavirus, a 66 per cent increase from the week before, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Thursday"


https://globalnews-ca.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/globalnews.ca/news/8481415/covid-19-us-children-hospitalizations/amp/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM=#amp_tf=From %1$s&aoh=16409746800752&csi=0&referrer=https://www.google.com&ampshare=https://globalnews.ca/news/8481415/covid-19-us-children-hospitalizations/

The results of parents making bad decisions.

And Fauci confirmed that a Covid positive kid with a broken arm counts as part of that 378. No Covid issues, broken arm.   We need legitimate numbers.

That's such a red herring. Kids rarely end up in the hospital.  And you don't get hospitalized for a broken arm either unless it's shattered and you need major surgery.  Point is that is hospitalizations suddenly have spiked in the last month,  you can feel pretty confident it's COVID. There's not a broken arm epidemic happening. 

They won't respond to this.

Everytime a valid point is made they move the goalposts.

It's almost impossible to have a disagreement in good faith with most people hear because I guess they just can't handle bad news.

It is hard to have a disagreement in good faith with someone when you are being labeled a bad parent by yourself. The convo ends right there. You do not know me or how good of a parent I am but hey keep on acting you are having a disagreement in good faith. 

I didn't say you are a bad parent, I said you are making a bad decision by not vaccinating your child. 

mickeyrat

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Meltdown99 said:

Average Canadians pay 42.5 per cent of their income in taxes:

That's just income tax.  Now let's talk property tax, carbon tax, sales taxes, gas taxes, payroll taxes (which just got increased) and I'm sure there are many more being left out...Canada is so overtaxed our healthcare should be running like a well-oiled machine, not like a Russian Lada...

Politicians in Canada have never met a tax they did not like and eventually con Canadians into accepting as somehow beneficial...

LOL....did you even read that?  It says it is all inclusive. Canada is below the US in the rankings of taxation by country.

And why should people give 50 of their income tongue fucking government?  

Tongue Fucking Government sounds like it could be a song by The Coup

Band name

mickeyrat

Meltdown99 said:

Gern Blanstten said:

Meltdown99 said:

Average Canadians pay 42.5 per cent of their income in taxes:

That's just income tax.  Now let's talk property tax, carbon tax, sales taxes, gas taxes, payroll taxes (which just got increased) and I'm sure there are many more being left out...Canada is so overtaxed our healthcare should be running like a well-oiled machine, not like a Russian Lada...

Politicians in Canada have never met a tax they did not like and eventually con Canadians into accepting as somehow beneficial...

LOL....did you even read that?  It says it is all inclusive. Canada is below the US in the rankings of taxation by country.

Also I already stated I’m not comparing canada to the US…the world doesn’t revolve around the US even though you think it goes.

The entire discussions is around Canadas Poorly funded publicly administered healthcare system…a system in which if you showed 
up at the doc and the doc told you your surgery was at lesst 6 months to a year away you’d whine like a bitch…you don’t no fuck all about the canadian healthcare system…but you think you DO…

no. the ENTIRE discussion is about viruses and vaccines. its right in the title. like kat intended.

dignin

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/covid-19-live-updates-hospitalizations-soar-as-quebec-reports-15293-cases

Maybe I should provide a peer reviewed paper.

tempo_n_groove

bootlegger10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

bootlegger10 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Per above. The democratic governor is requesting a proper count of hospitalizations for Covid versus people who just happen to be Covid positive but hospitalized for different reasons.  You would think that is a silly question, but sadly it isn’t and we are not being provided with the correct numbers.  I am sure they are still high, but the governor said in the article that AS MUCH as 50% of patients may have been hospitalized for non Covid reasons.  

I can’t remember which thread but Fauci said something similar about children being hospitalized. 

Crap like this is why people don’t trust the government and the media.  This crap supports the far right argument that the government is playing up the virus and trying to control behavior…yada yada yada.  We shouldn’t be having these issues about hospitalization numbers this far into the pandemic.  It screams of an agenda to purposefully overstate the numbers.

Bump so this doesn’t get lost in all of the health care cost debate.  I remember any time someone came on here and said that hospitals were coding deaths or patients as Covid when Covid wasn’t the issue that they were some far right conspiracy theorist.  Here we are though two years into the pandemic and the Democrat governor is asking about the % of those hospitalized with Covid but not because of Covid and that the number may be as much as 50%.

50% of hospital use for covid is bad....

That wasn’t the question she was asking.   What she was asking about is if 100 patients are hospitalized for Covid, how many of those are actually hospitalized because of Covid or because they happen to have Covid but are being treated for something completely different.  The dem governor has heard it may be as much of 50% of the 100 that may be in the hospital but are not there because of Covid.  That is an important number to know.  50% may still be high but when you give false or misleading info to the public then you deserve to be questioned on it.  It is hard to debate conspiracy theorists when they point to stories like this one.  

Yes she was and right to do so.  She doesn't want to inflict fear w inflated numbers.  She also sees us as getting worse rather than better.  Our infection rate is up to almost 25%.  That means 1 in 4 people have it.  That's nuts.

If these were the numbers during Delta we would have thousands dying a day.

Gern Blansten

bootlegger10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

bootlegger10 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Per above. The democratic governor is requesting a proper count of hospitalizations for Covid versus people who just happen to be Covid positive but hospitalized for different reasons.  You would think that is a silly question, but sadly it isn’t and we are not being provided with the correct numbers.  I am sure they are still high, but the governor said in the article that AS MUCH as 50% of patients may have been hospitalized for non Covid reasons.  

I can’t remember which thread but Fauci said something similar about children being hospitalized. 

Crap like this is why people don’t trust the government and the media.  This crap supports the far right argument that the government is playing up the virus and trying to control behavior…yada yada yada.  We shouldn’t be having these issues about hospitalization numbers this far into the pandemic.  It screams of an agenda to purposefully overstate the numbers.

Bump so this doesn’t get lost in all of the health care cost debate.  I remember any time someone came on here and said that hospitals were coding deaths or patients as Covid when Covid wasn’t the issue that they were some far right conspiracy theorist.  Here we are though two years into the pandemic and the Democrat governor is asking about the % of those hospitalized with Covid but not because of Covid and that the number may be as much as 50%.

50% of hospital use for covid is bad....

That wasn’t the question she was asking.   What she was asking about is if 100 patients are hospitalized for Covid, how many of those are actually hospitalized because of Covid or because they happen to have Covid but are being treated for something completely different.  The dem governor has heard it may be as much of 50% of the 100 that may be in the hospital but are not there because of Covid.  That is an important number to know.  50% may still be high but when you give false or misleading info to the public then you deserve to be questioned on it.  It is hard to debate conspiracy theorists when they point to stories like this one.  

Yes saying that 100% of hospital occupants are there because of covid would likely be incorrect....but if 50% are there because of covid that is really bad. 30% is bad....even 25% would be alarming

It is an important number because we should be working with accurate information.  50%=bad

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

Wow.  My obamacare has gone up 10-20% in cost every year.  Lowest was a 13% increase one year...

The effect of Obamacare on my employer provided healthcare (2/3-1/3) slowed the annual increase in cost, year over year, with some years being flat but with no loss in benefits. I’m not in Obamacare, to clarify.

Yes that is great for company insurance.  For what I have read, the drastic increases were to get up to par with the subsidizing costs.  My income bracket says I can afford X and that helps out the others in the system that do not make what I do.

What drastic increases are you referring to and for which type of insurance, private employer provided, individual employed or Obamacare? I’m not understanding.

Since obamacare you said that your insurance has not gone up much.  You have a company provided healthcare option.  As of 2014 I have had a private obamacare policy and while you have not seen increases I have seen my rates go up every year form 13% to as high as 22%.

What did you have prior to 2014? And did you make changes to the type of plan you purchased through Obamacare, go from gold to platinum or change providers within a category level?

The Bottom Line

Any law as extensive as the 906-page Affordable Care Act is likely to have provisions worthy of legitimate debate. Nevertheless, its impact on healthcare premiums is becoming clearer as more data become available. While the results vary from one state to the next, the overall numbers seem to suggest that post-ACA premium increases have been rather modest compared to those prior to ACA implementation.

Did Obamacare Make Premiums Go Up? (investopedia.com)

bootlegger10

Gern Blansten said:

bootlegger10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

bootlegger10 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Per above. The democratic governor is requesting a proper count of hospitalizations for Covid versus people who just happen to be Covid positive but hospitalized for different reasons.  You would think that is a silly question, but sadly it isn’t and we are not being provided with the correct numbers.  I am sure they are still high, but the governor said in the article that AS MUCH as 50% of patients may have been hospitalized for non Covid reasons.  

I can’t remember which thread but Fauci said something similar about children being hospitalized. 

Crap like this is why people don’t trust the government and the media.  This crap supports the far right argument that the government is playing up the virus and trying to control behavior…yada yada yada.  We shouldn’t be having these issues about hospitalization numbers this far into the pandemic.  It screams of an agenda to purposefully overstate the numbers.

Bump so this doesn’t get lost in all of the health care cost debate.  I remember any time someone came on here and said that hospitals were coding deaths or patients as Covid when Covid wasn’t the issue that they were some far right conspiracy theorist.  Here we are though two years into the pandemic and the Democrat governor is asking about the % of those hospitalized with Covid but not because of Covid and that the number may be as much as 50%.

50% of hospital use for covid is bad....

That wasn’t the question she was asking.   What she was asking about is if 100 patients are hospitalized for Covid, how many of those are actually hospitalized because of Covid or because they happen to have Covid but are being treated for something completely different.  The dem governor has heard it may be as much of 50% of the 100 that may be in the hospital but are not there because of Covid.  That is an important number to know.  50% may still be high but when you give false or misleading info to the public then you deserve to be questioned on it.  It is hard to debate conspiracy theorists when they point to stories like this one.  

Yes saying that 100% of hospital occupants are there because of covid would likely be incorrect....but if 50% are there because of covid that is really bad. 30% is bad....even 25% would be alarming

It is an important number because we should be working with accurate information.  50%=bad

It begs the follow-up question... how many of the 800k people that have died from COVID actually died from COVID or from some other non-COVID issue?   Is it 750k?  Is it 600k?  It is still a lot whatever it is but we should be acting on accurate information.  Hospitalizations are basically the main driver of whether we shut our economy down or not.  That is a big deal.  

How is the governor of New York to decide vaccination requirements, event attendance limits, etc... when hospitalizations may be overstated by 50%?   There is a push to trust everything from the government on this and I'm glad that a Democrat isn't blindly following the narrative.  If those actually hospitalized due to COVID are closer to what we typically see with a bad flu season, then perhaps we don't take as extreme measures because we never did before.  Regardless of the decisions, the public should be informed of the right data to judge the decisions made by the government.

Spunkie

dignin said:

PJNB said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

bootlegger10 said:

dignin said:

tish said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/investigation-of-sars-cov-2-variants-technical-briefings

Today's primary source UK data on vaccine efficacy with omicron and child vaccine data.

Thanks for this Tish.

I also saw this today.

COVID-19: U.S. children hospitalized in record numbers as vaccinations lag


"During the week of Dec. 22-28, an average of 378 children 17 and under were admitted per day to hospitals with the coronavirus, a 66 per cent increase from the week before, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Thursday"


https://globalnews-ca.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/globalnews.ca/news/8481415/covid-19-us-children-hospitalizations/amp/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM=#amp_tf=From %1$s&aoh=16409746800752&csi=0&referrer=https://www.google.com&ampshare=https://globalnews.ca/news/8481415/covid-19-us-children-hospitalizations/

The results of parents making bad decisions.

And Fauci confirmed that a Covid positive kid with a broken arm counts as part of that 378. No Covid issues, broken arm.   We need legitimate numbers.

That's such a red herring. Kids rarely end up in the hospital.  And you don't get hospitalized for a broken arm either unless it's shattered and you need major surgery.  Point is that is hospitalizations suddenly have spiked in the last month,  you can feel pretty confident it's COVID. There's not a broken arm epidemic happening. 

They won't respond to this.

Everytime a valid point is made they move the goalposts.

It's almost impossible to have a disagreement in good faith with most people hear because I guess they just can't handle bad news.

It is hard to have a disagreement in good faith with someone when you are being labeled a bad parent by yourself. The convo ends right there. You do not know me or how good of a parent I am but hey keep on acting you are having a disagreement in good faith. 

I didn't say you are a bad parent, I said you are making a bad decision by not vaccinating your child. 

The data is showing omicron is resulting in fewer hospitalizations for children than Delta. The lower severity of upper respiratory infection as opposed to lower-lung infection also adds to the cons column. Omicron escapes this vaccine, which only leaves the T-cell benefit to recognize and destroy covid. 

If the New Brunswick health care system isn't swamped the cost-benefit ratio is likely quite low for his kids. Also, I'm not a fan of kids having to protect elders. Isn't that backwards?

I'm glad we met at Ohana, PJNB, and I'm glad you stuck up for me when I posted I wanted to wait and see data on the effectiveness of this vaccine against omicron. 

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...

Family, to be clear.  But it sounds like you are comparing what's available on Obamacare vs an employment plan.  I was saying that employer plans are worse and worse every year.  

Obamacare ones will follow the same trend since all Obamacare does is provide a portal for private insurers to underwrite you in a group from the portal.  The reason the individual mandate is so important is that Obamacare entries would be high risk, as they are the ones that would go in and need the insurance.  So you need healthy young people to offset it.  But in general, the pool of insured is going to be higher risk than that of an employer plan, hence bad rates comparatively. 

Are employer plans worse every year? Mine hasn’t been. In fact, Obamacare resulted in my co pay and rise of premiums at their slowest percentage change since employment or were flat. This year we received enhanced benefits with a 2% increase in cost. Medical, dental and eye care coverage.

Wow.  My obamacare has gone up 10-20% in cost every year.  Lowest was a 13% increase one year...

The effect of Obamacare on my employer provided healthcare (2/3-1/3) slowed the annual increase in cost, year over year, with some years being flat but with no loss in benefits. I’m not in Obamacare, to clarify.

Yes that is great for company insurance.  For what I have read, the drastic increases were to get up to par with the subsidizing costs.  My income bracket says I can afford X and that helps out the others in the system that do not make what I do.

What drastic increases are you referring to and for which type of insurance, private employer provided, individual employed or Obamacare? I’m not understanding.

Since obamacare you said that your insurance has not gone up much.  You have a company provided healthcare option.  As of 2014 I have had a private obamacare policy and while you have not seen increases I have seen my rates go up every year form 13% to as high as 22%.

What did you have prior to 2014? And did you make changes to the type of plan you purchased through Obamacare, go from gold to platinum or change providers within a category level?

The Bottom Line

Any law as extensive as the 906-page Affordable Care Act is likely to have provisions worthy of legitimate debate. Nevertheless, its impact on healthcare premiums is becoming clearer as more data become available. While the results vary from one state to the next, the overall numbers seem to suggest that post-ACA premium increases have been rather modest compared to those prior to ACA implementation.

Did Obamacare Make Premiums Go Up? (investopedia.com)

I like an idiot, let my old plan lapse.  it was a company plan from United Health.  Great plan.  Since I let it lapse I missed the window to carry it over to a private one.

I have had the same gold level plan from Oscar with zero changes.  My premiums still increased.  I had all my increases from year to year documented on one of these threads.

I might need to shop for something else But I don't think the individual plans differ much from one to the next.