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Critical Race Theory

tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
in A Moving Train
This is a hot topic of late.  A few states, 8,  have banned it from curriculums.

There are a bunch of articles on it.  I'll put one for and one against and let the discussion begin.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what-is-critical-race-theory-and-why-is-it-under-attack/2021/05
https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/reasons-critical-race-theory-terrible-dealing-racism/
«13456

Comments

  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,377
    I don't know either of those source sites but I do know CRT. 
    Skimmed the first article but could not make it very far in the second.

    This being a hot topic is more white people whining about reverse racism because accepting that the system is rigged against non-whites and even poor whites is not something they can even begin to consider or discuss.  (Forget the irony around my observation that some of the loudest voices against things like CRT are the lower income level whites who are also at a disadvantage in our current system....)

    Not tough to see which side I come down on with this topic.  Regardless of what the schools do or do not teach, we are already teaching our child what we see and believe about the world.  (For us, these teachings absolutely include the basic ideas of CRT.)


    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    F Me In The Brain said:
    I don't know either of those source sites but I do know CRT. 
    Skimmed the first article but could not make it very far in the second.

    This being a hot topic is more white people whining about reverse racism because accepting that the system is rigged against non-whites and even poor whites is not something they can even begin to consider or discuss.  (Forget the irony around my observation that some of the loudest voices against things like CRT are the lower income level whites who are also at a disadvantage in our current system....)

    Not tough to see which side I come down on with this topic.  Regardless of what the schools do or do not teach, we are already teaching our child what we see and believe about the world.  (For us, these teachings absolutely include the basic ideas of CRT.)


    From what I'm reading on it, I agree that certain things should be taught.  The whole Jim Crow era and other laws written after it that effect minorities should be taught.

    I'm reading more articles to find out how true the Long Island parents statement made recently about their kids being taught that you are either oppressed or an oppressor, and that you are white you are adherently racist.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,377
    edited June 2021
    I think it is possible to be both oppressed and an oppressor.
    I would also not use the word 'adherently' to categorize all white people as being racist.  That is overreacting white people whining, imo.
    As someone whose skin is white (although I am 1/4 non-white) I do believe that I do live a life with automatic advantages.  I also believe that I am blind to some of those advantages.  Do not believe this makes me racist, but can understand people saying it does make me a part of the racist system.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    F Me In The Brain said:
    I think it is possible to be both oppressed and an oppressor.
    I would also not use the word 'adherently' to categorize all white people as being racist.  That is overreacting white people whining, imo.
    As someone whose skin is white (although I am 1/4 non-white) I do believe that I do live a life with automatic advantages.  I also believe that I am blind to some of those advantages.  Do not believe this makes me racist, but can understand people saying it does make me a part of the racist system.
    Yes, "color blindness" is what CRT sees as a problem too.  Not seeing color can perhaps make you not see racism.  It's a very interesting look at that.  It has some merit in it but can definitely be seen as a negative too.

    The other parts I am researching.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,338
    I researched this a bit this weekend as I saw it was trending. It wasn't a big surprise to me the names that are against it. 
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2021/06/15/gov-abbott-signs-anti-critical-race-theory-bill-into-law-over-objections-from-educators-and-civic-groups/
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,319
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,338
    teaching any theory in school is going to be controversial, especially when it specifically and obviously demonizes one group of people. it is a fine line, however, where teachers aren't supposed to be activists. i can't imagine how hard it would be to teach something like that while walking that very thin line. 

    is it normal for lawmakers to wade into the education waters? shouldn't curriculum be up to the board of education?
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    teaching any theory in school is going to be controversial, especially when it specifically and obviously demonizes one group of people. it is a fine line, however, where teachers aren't supposed to be activists. i can't imagine how hard it would be to teach something like that while walking that very thin line. 

    is it normal for lawmakers to wade into the education waters? shouldn't curriculum be up to the board of education?
    Yes it is normal for lawmakers to get involved.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,845
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    Yes, I think the average "person" would be surprised how much race weighs in everything.


  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 4,956
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    I think you are right. Growing up, you were taught about the Civil war, segregation laws and the Civil rights movement, but not a whole lot more than that. I was never taught about the Tulsa massacre, redlining of neighborhoods to assure keeping black people out of certain areas, the US interstate system annexing areas of towns that were primarily black neighborhoods to build the highways. There are too many to mention. All of them shaped the living experience of black citizens, with little to none of them designed to be truly beneficial to them.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,319
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    Yes, I think the average "person" would be surprised how much race weighs in everything.


    Really? You believe the "average" Black person or Hispanic person "would be surprised" by how much race weighs in everything? Wow.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    Yes, I think the average "person" would be surprised how much race weighs in everything.


    Really? You believe the "average" Black person or Hispanic person "would be surprised" by how much race weighs in everything? Wow
    I changed the wording to remove color from the equation and then it came right back in your response.

    I was curious if you removed it would it even be recognized and you proved that for me.  That's all.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,319
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    Yes, I think the average "person" would be surprised how much race weighs in everything.


    Really? You believe the "average" Black person or Hispanic person "would be surprised" by how much race weighs in everything? Wow
    I changed the wording to remove color from the equation and then it came right back in your response.

    I was curious if you removed it would it even be recognized and you proved that for me.  That's all.
    Because color matters, duh. You still didn't answer the question.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    JeBurkhardt said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    I think you are right. Growing up, you were taught about the Civil war, segregation laws and the Civil rights movement, but not a whole lot more than that. I was never taught about the Tulsa massacre, redlining of neighborhoods to assure keeping black people out of certain areas, the US interstate system annexing areas of towns that were primarily black neighborhoods to build the highways. There are too many to mention. All of them shaped the living experience of black citizens, with little to none of them designed to be truly beneficial to them.
    I had NEVER heard of the Tulsa genocide/massacre until this year.  Years of listening to NPR, PBS documentaries and never recalled it until this year.

    If it wasn't for CRT, would I have learned about it this year?  I actually heard about it's 100yr aniv on NPR.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    Yes, I think the average "person" would be surprised how much race weighs in everything.


    Really? You believe the "average" Black person or Hispanic person "would be surprised" by how much race weighs in everything? Wow
    I changed the wording to remove color from the equation and then it came right back in your response.

    I was curious if you removed it would it even be recognized and you proved that for me.  That's all.
    Because color matters, duh. You still didn't answer the question.
    I said average person.  Your question makes it sound like a black or Hispanic person isn't an average person.  Is that what you're getting at?  They aren't average people?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,338
    I think it's naïve to believe that the average "person" would be surprised by how much race weighs in everything. I'd wager nearly all non-whites know that reality day in and day out. 
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 4,956
    tempo_n_groove said:
    JeBurkhardt said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    I think you are right. Growing up, you were taught about the Civil war, segregation laws and the Civil rights movement, but not a whole lot more than that. I was never taught about the Tulsa massacre, redlining of neighborhoods to assure keeping black people out of certain areas, the US interstate system annexing areas of towns that were primarily black neighborhoods to build the highways. There are too many to mention. All of them shaped the living experience of black citizens, with little to none of them designed to be truly beneficial to them.
    I had NEVER heard of the Tulsa genocide/massacre until this year.  Years of listening to NPR, PBS documentaries and never recalled it until this year.

    If it wasn't for CRT, would I have learned about it this year?  I actually heard about it's 100yr aniv on NPR.
    NPR is also where I learned about how the the construction of the interstate highways affected black communities. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    JeBurkhardt said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    JeBurkhardt said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    I think you are right. Growing up, you were taught about the Civil war, segregation laws and the Civil rights movement, but not a whole lot more than that. I was never taught about the Tulsa massacre, redlining of neighborhoods to assure keeping black people out of certain areas, the US interstate system annexing areas of towns that were primarily black neighborhoods to build the highways. There are too many to mention. All of them shaped the living experience of black citizens, with little to none of them designed to be truly beneficial to them.
    I had NEVER heard of the Tulsa genocide/massacre until this year.  Years of listening to NPR, PBS documentaries and never recalled it until this year.

    If it wasn't for CRT, would I have learned about it this year?  I actually heard about it's 100yr aniv on NPR.
    NPR is also where I learned about how the the construction of the interstate highways affected black communities. 
    That is very interesting.  Did they mention Huey Long at all?  He actually went after big time politicians so he could build the roads and schools in Louisiana and am wondering if African Americans bore any brunt of that?
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,845
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    Yes, I think the average "person" would be surprised how much race weighs in everything.


    Really? You believe the "average" Black person or Hispanic person "would be surprised" by how much race weighs in everything? Wow
    I changed the wording to remove color from the equation and then it came right back in your response.

    I was curious if you removed it would it even be recognized and you proved that for me.  That's all.
    Because color matters, duh. You still didn't answer the question.
    I said average person.  Your question makes it sound like a black or Hispanic person isn't an average person.  Is that what you're getting at?  They aren't average people?
    You’re missing the point. When we are talking about the impact of race and racist treatment, it’s nonsensical to complain about specifying someone’s race or colour. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    I think it's naïve to believe that the average "person" would be surprised by how much race weighs in everything. I'd wager nearly all non-whites know that reality day in and day out. 
    Race and racist are two different things.

    I am asking a question out loud and if it is race that weighs in or is it racism?

    This would be a better conversation in person, it would flow better.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,338
    tempo_n_groove said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    I think it's naïve to believe that the average "person" would be surprised by how much race weighs in everything. I'd wager nearly all non-whites know that reality day in and day out. 
    Race and racist are two different things.

    I am asking a question out loud and if it is race that weighs in or is it racism?

    This would be a better conversation in person, it would flow better.
    i gotta be honest, i'm not even sure which hairs you're splitting here. 
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    I think it's naïve to believe that the average "person" would be surprised by how much race weighs in everything. I'd wager nearly all non-whites know that reality day in and day out. 
    Race and racist are two different things.

    I am asking a question out loud and if it is race that weighs in or is it racism?

    This would be a better conversation in person, it would flow better.
    i gotta be honest, i'm not even sure which hairs you're splitting here. 
    I had a response written out and it will just get more convoluted.

    At the end of the day I would like to see race brought up and not have racism follow it.  I don't think that it is ever possible.


  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 4,956
    tempo_n_groove said:
    JeBurkhardt said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    JeBurkhardt said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    I think you are right. Growing up, you were taught about the Civil war, segregation laws and the Civil rights movement, but not a whole lot more than that. I was never taught about the Tulsa massacre, redlining of neighborhoods to assure keeping black people out of certain areas, the US interstate system annexing areas of towns that were primarily black neighborhoods to build the highways. There are too many to mention. All of them shaped the living experience of black citizens, with little to none of them designed to be truly beneficial to them.
    I had NEVER heard of the Tulsa genocide/massacre until this year.  Years of listening to NPR, PBS documentaries and never recalled it until this year.

    If it wasn't for CRT, would I have learned about it this year?  I actually heard about it's 100yr aniv on NPR.
    NPR is also where I learned about how the the construction of the interstate highways affected black communities. 
    That is very interesting.  Did they mention Huey Long at all?  He actually went after big time politicians so he could build the roads and schools in Louisiana and am wondering if African Americans bore any brunt of that?
    I don't recall Louisiana specifically. The author of the book who was discussing it spoke mostly in terms of common overall effects in the interview. I imagine he got more detailed and had specific situations in the book. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,491
    JeBurkhardt said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    JeBurkhardt said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    JeBurkhardt said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    I think you are right. Growing up, you were taught about the Civil war, segregation laws and the Civil rights movement, but not a whole lot more than that. I was never taught about the Tulsa massacre, redlining of neighborhoods to assure keeping black people out of certain areas, the US interstate system annexing areas of towns that were primarily black neighborhoods to build the highways. There are too many to mention. All of them shaped the living experience of black citizens, with little to none of them designed to be truly beneficial to them.
    I had NEVER heard of the Tulsa genocide/massacre until this year.  Years of listening to NPR, PBS documentaries and never recalled it until this year.

    If it wasn't for CRT, would I have learned about it this year?  I actually heard about it's 100yr aniv on NPR.
    NPR is also where I learned about how the the construction of the interstate highways affected black communities. 
    That is very interesting.  Did they mention Huey Long at all?  He actually went after big time politicians so he could build the roads and schools in Louisiana and am wondering if African Americans bore any brunt of that?
    I don't recall Louisiana specifically. The author of the book who was discussing it spoke mostly in terms of common overall effects in the interview. I imagine he got more detailed and had specific situations in the book. 
    Reason I asked was because of the 9th ward.  I am going to google it now anyways.

    Thanks
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,319
    edited June 2021
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 
    Yes, I think the average "person" would be surprised how much race weighs in everything.


    Really? You believe the "average" Black person or Hispanic person "would be surprised" by how much race weighs in everything? Wow
    I changed the wording to remove color from the equation and then it came right back in your response.

    I was curious if you removed it would it even be recognized and you proved that for me.  That's all.
    Because color matters, duh. You still didn't answer the question.
    I said average person.  Your question makes it sound like a black or Hispanic person isn't an average person.  Is that what you're getting at?  They aren't average people?
    The average person includes all people of all races, yes? I would expect that the average that "would be surprised that race weighing into everything", amongst the average Black or Hispanic person would be substantially higher than both the "average person (all races)" and particularly among average Whites. Is that a surprise to you?

    Of course their/there/they're are "average" people of all races. Like HFD asked, "what hairs are you splitting?" To your last question, no, there are a % who are way above average, as with all races. And unfortunately, there's a larger percentage who fall below average, in almost any method/category of measurement.
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 39,237
    HC Richardson and her historian colleague Joanne Freeman discuss CRT on their new podcast Now and Then


    link provided by her and found elsewhere as well.

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