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Critical Race Theory

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,862
    I think you missed the point Deggans was trying to make, entirely, and reached the same conclusion Fox News wants to try and lead viewers to.
    Deggans is not saying Hanks (or other people he mentions) are racists.  In fact, he comes right out and says that in his piece.
    Did you happen to read that?
    I'm sure he would not say anything about the stories you shared support that you are actually racist yourself, despite being white.  ;)
    CRT isn't about trying to tell people they are racists because they are white.


    On a funny note....weren't you a supporter of the Math Candidate?
    :lol:
    80+25+5 would give you 110%


    OH fuck math!  :lol:

    (Actually, what MATH is is M.A.T.H., "Make America Think Harder".  I'm good at basic math, but don't think so clearly at 2 AM!)

    OK, I see what you are saying.  But what I seem to get from Deggans is that he thinks a white male such as myself needs to somehow confess that I am personally responsible for the continuation of racism.  That's a heavy fucking burden if and there are white males out there who feel that way, I feel badly for them.  But for myself, I don't see it.  I'm not going to take on responsibility for something I didn't create or sustain, and I don't feel the need to justify that statement.  In a court of law, I suppose I could.  But I judge myself pretty hard as it it, so I don't need to do that here.  I will say that I think a lot of this is another example off over-the-top political correctness.  To people like Deggans, I would suggest they call out the real fucking racists (of which there are many in America) and stop putting the blame on those of us who get it and try to do as what we can to end racism.  Blaming those who understand the situation and try to make a difference is bullshit.  That's my take, anyway.
    "The earth- we could have saved it but we were too damn cheap and lazy."
    -Kurt Vonnegut










  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 25,636
    edited June 19
    Does this mean I can’t teach about the origins of the KKK and lynchings?  Is emitt till now a no no? Black codes?  Tulsa? Jim Crow laws?  Literacy tests?  Tuskegee experiments?
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,420
    mcgruff10 said:
    Does this mean I can’t teach about the origins of the KKK and lynchings?  Is emitt till now a no no? Black codes?  Tulsa? Jim Crow laws?  Literacy tests?  Tuskegee experiments?

    Does it? Presumably as a teacher you get information and material on curriculum development and delivery. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,420
    brianlux said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 

    I would agree that in North America race weighs much in many things but I would never say everything.  First of all, that's not a provable notion and I think it's best to be able to substantiate any statement made regarding such an important issue. And secondly, if you go about trying to educate white America about race and tell people something like that, you'll do as much to lead as many people to dig their heels in further in their racist views as you will to change minds.  I would take a firm approach to race education, but one perhaps for tactful.

    I am not going about trying to educate white America about race. I'm not trying to educate anyone about anything, I'm stating my opinion, and my opinion is that issues somehow related to race have a far wider reach and impact than white North Americans ever consider.

    And fuck tactfulness; that sounds like just another version of "go slow, be patient, it'll change", which people of colour have heard for decade upon decade. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 25,375
    edited June 19
    McG, it doesn't mean that at all.

    Brian, I understand what your point it.  I don't think that is what people want to teach....but that is the fear white folks are having about it
    I don't necessarily 100% agree with what Deggans is saying about what he feels the responsibility of Hanks or associates is....but I certainly agree that the way we present most things is from a white/heavily biased and privileged/background.  As a country ...and I certainly see things that way, first.  It is almost impossible not to, even when I can recognize that this is the perspective I'm seeing through .
    Trying to make our kids aware of this makes good sense, to me.
    (And, continuing to try and recognize/learn where I can see other perspectives and realities.)

    The 110% made me chuckle.  Math errors into the night / early morn!
    I make them at all times of day.
    Post edited by F Me In The Brain on
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,862
    edited June 19
    brianlux said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 

    I would agree that in North America race weighs much in many things but I would never say everything.  First of all, that's not a provable notion and I think it's best to be able to substantiate any statement made regarding such an important issue. And secondly, if you go about trying to educate white America about race and tell people something like that, you'll do as much to lead as many people to dig their heels in further in their racist views as you will to change minds.  I would take a firm approach to race education, but one perhaps for tactful.

    I am not going about trying to educate white America about race. I'm not trying to educate anyone about anything, I'm stating my opinion, and my opinion is that issues somehow related to race have a far wider reach and impact than white North Americans ever consider.

    And fuck tactfulness; that sounds like just another version of "go slow, be patient, it'll change", which people of colour have heard for decade upon decade. 

    Fine, fuck tactfulness.  I can understand that notion.  But if you think I am suggesting "go slow, be patient, it'll change" you know less about my way of thinking than I would have supposed.  Perhaps there is a better work I could have use than "tact".  But somehow I think you would have slammed whatever I would have said anyway.  Seems to be your M.O. these days.

    "The earth- we could have saved it but we were too damn cheap and lazy."
    -Kurt Vonnegut










  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 25,636
    So Brett, what does it all mean?  I m in blue blue New Jersey so this has no bearing on me at all.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,486
    brianlux said:
    I think you missed the point Deggans was trying to make, entirely, and reached the same conclusion Fox News wants to try and lead viewers to.
    Deggans is not saying Hanks (or other people he mentions) are racists.  In fact, he comes right out and says that in his piece.
    Did you happen to read that?
    I'm sure he would not say anything about the stories you shared support that you are actually racist yourself, despite being white.  ;)
    CRT isn't about trying to tell people they are racists because they are white.


    On a funny note....weren't you a supporter of the Math Candidate?
    :lol:
    80+25+5 would give you 110%


    OH fuck math!  :lol:

    (Actually, what MATH is is M.A.T.H., "Make America Think Harder".  I'm good at basic math, but don't think so clearly at 2 AM!)

    OK, I see what you are saying.  But what I seem to get from Deggans is that he thinks a white male such as myself needs to somehow confess that I am personally responsible for the continuation of racism.  That's a heavy fucking burden if and there are white males out there who feel that way, I feel badly for them.  But for myself, I don't see it.  I'm not going to take on responsibility for something I didn't create or sustain, and I don't feel the need to justify that statement.  In a court of law, I suppose I could.  But I judge myself pretty hard as it it, so I don't need to do that here.  I will say that I think a lot of this is another example off over-the-top political correctness.  To people like Deggans, I would suggest they call out the real fucking racists (of which there are many in America) and stop putting the blame on those of us who get it and try to do as what we can to end racism.  Blaming those who understand the situation and try to make a difference is bullshit.  That's my take, anyway.

    Let me suggest rereading his article Brian. I didnt get that from the article at all. It was a call to action from him to Hanks. Simply put, as a teller of history in his profession, Hanks should include a fuller picture of that history in his future projects, than the average white guy hero stories Hanks can play so well.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,486


    Opinion: Tom Hanks Is A Non-Racist. It's Time For Him To Be Anti-Racist

    Tom Hanks recently wrote an essay in The New York Times urging more widespread teaching of the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre. The Oscar winner has built a career on movies about American white men "doing the right thing."

    Steve Granitz/WireImage

    First, I must note how much I love Tom Hanks as a performer, Hollywood citizen and all-around stand-up guy.

    Of course, he's a consummate actor, with two Oscars and starring roles in landmark films such as Philadelphia and Forrest Gump. He's been an outspoken advocate for gay rights and environmentalism. He even helped us get through the pandemic, setting a graceful, confident example when he and his wife, Rita Wilson, were among the first celebrities publicly revealed to have COVID-19.

    So when I saw he recently had written a guest essay for The New York Times calling for more widespread teaching about the Tulsa Race Massacre – when white mobs in Oklahoma burned a prosperous Black neighborhood to the ground in 1921, killing between 100 and 300 people — I was sincerely heartened.

    Now, I thought, we'll see him examine how his work — so often focused on the achievements of virtuous white, male Americans – may have made it tougher for tales about atrocities such as Tulsa to find similar space.

    But he didn't fully go there. Here's what he did say:

    "History was mostly written by white people about white people like me, while the history of Black people — including the horrors of Tulsa — was too often left out. Until relatively recently, the entertainment industry, which helps shape what is history and what is forgotten, did the same. That includes projects of mine."

    He goes on to say he learned of Tulsa from an article in The New York Times last year.

    And, another line, later in the piece:

    "Today, I think historically based fiction entertainment must portray the burden of racism in our nation for the sake of the art form's claims to verisimilitude and authenticity."

    These are wise words. And it's wonderful that Hanks stepped forward to advocate for teaching about a race-based massacre – indirectly pushing back against all the hyperventilating about critical race theory that's too often more about silencing such lessons on America's darkest chapters.

    But it is not enough.

    He's built a career playing righteous white men

    After many years of speaking out about race and media in America, I know the toughest thing for some white Americans — especially those who consider themselves advocates against racism — is to admit how they were personally and specifically connected to the elevation of white culture over other cultures.

    But in Hanks' case, he is no average American. Or average Hollywood star, for that matter.

    A cast-autographed helmet belonging to the character Hanks played in the 1998 World War II drama Saving Private Ryan.

    Andrew Matthews/PA Images via Getty Images

    Over the years, he has starred in a lot of big movies about historical events, including Saving Private Ryan, Greyhound, Forrest Gump, Apollo 13, Bridge of Spies and News of the World. He has served as a producer or executive producer on even more films and TV shows based on American history, including Band of Brothers, The Pacific, John Adams and From the Earth to the Moon. He was an executive producer of documentaries such as The Assassination of President Kennedy and The Sixties on CNN.

    In other words, he is a baby boomer star who has built a sizable part of his career on stories about American white men "doing the right thing." He even played a former Confederate soldier in one of his latest films, News of the World, standing up for a blond, white girl who had been kidnapped and raised by a Native American tribe.

    But the stories often leave out Black contribution

    He's not alone. Superstar director Steven Spielberg has a similar pedigree (notwithstanding occasional projects such as The Color Purple and Amistad). And fellow director Ron Howard. These stories of white Americans smashing the Nazi war machine or riding rockets into space are important. But they often leave out how Black soldiers returned home from fighting in World War II to find they weren't allowed to use the GI Bill to secure home loans in certain neighborhoods or were cheated out of claiming benefits at all.

    They don't describe how Black people were excluded from participating in space missions as astronauts early in America's space program. As the book and film Hidden Figures notes, even brilliant Black and female mathematicians faced discrimination in the space program during the 1950s and 1960s. If given better opportunities, perhaps they could have helped us get to the moon sooner, by putting our best minds on the problem, regardless of race.

    Director Steven Spielberg

    Craig Sjodin/ABC via Getty Images

    In some ways, Hollywood is tripped up by its own storytelling habits. Often, in modern films and TV shows, open and ugly expressions of racism are used to telegraph to the audience that a character is a terrible person. Think of the moment when a mobster in The Godfather notes he wants to focus selling hard drugs to Black people or "the coloreds" because, "they're animals anyway, so let them lose their souls." Our antihero, Marlon Brando's Don Corleone, had resisted selling drugs at all, but accepts a compromise.

    Once that dynamic is established, it's tough to show a character the audience is supposed to love displaying the type of racism that was common in their time. Which means the product of that racism – from lynchings to redlining – is often disappeared, too.

    There's a difference between non-racist and anti-racist

    For those of us who speak often on these issues, one of the toughest things to do is to go to a white person who is trying hard to be an ally and tell them they need to do more. And I'm sure there are plenty of Hanks fans out there of every stripe who will say I am expecting too much, being ungrateful toward a big star who said more than he had to.

    And understand: I'm not saying Hanks, Howard or Spielberg are racist. I'm not even saying that Hanks should have made or supported a film specifically about the Tulsa Race Massacre long before now (though I am astonished that a guy who has been making film and TV projects rooted in American history for at least 25 years didn't find out about Tulsa until 2020.)

    A man holds a Black Lives Matter flag during a protest in St. Paul, Minn., in March shortly before the start of Derek Chauvin's trial in George Floyd's killing.

    Kerem Yucel/AFP via Getty Images

    But over this summer, in the wake of George Floyd's murder by a white police officer, I spent a lot of time investigating the difference between being non-racist and being anti-racist. Anti-racism implies action – looking around your universe and taking specific steps to dismantle systemic racism.

    So I am saying it is time for folks like Hanks to be anti-racist.

    What Hanks (and Hollywood) should do next

    If he really wants to make a difference, Hanks and other stars need to talk specifically about how their work has contributed to these problems and how they will change. They need to make specific commitments to changing the conversation in story subjects, casting and execution. That is the truly hard work of building change.

    Race

    Hear Eric Deggans Discuss This Essay On 'All Things Considered'

    Rather than talk about what "historically based fiction entertainment" must do, why not talk about what Tom Hanks, longtime scripted and documentary executive producer, will do? As a star who can get a movie made just by agreeing to appear in it, what will Tom Hanks, movie star, actually do?

    People often say columns such as the one by Hanks are published to start a conversation. Well, here is my suggestion: Let's make part of that conversation how baby boomer filmmakers have made fortunes amplifying ideas of white American exceptionalism and heroism.

    And how their responsibility now lies with helping dismantle and broaden the ideas they helped cement in the American mind.







    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,486
    if I were smart enough I'd share this differently...


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,862
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    I think you missed the point Deggans was trying to make, entirely, and reached the same conclusion Fox News wants to try and lead viewers to.
    Deggans is not saying Hanks (or other people he mentions) are racists.  In fact, he comes right out and says that in his piece.
    Did you happen to read that?
    I'm sure he would not say anything about the stories you shared support that you are actually racist yourself, despite being white.  ;)
    CRT isn't about trying to tell people they are racists because they are white.


    On a funny note....weren't you a supporter of the Math Candidate?
    :lol:
    80+25+5 would give you 110%


    OH fuck math!  :lol:

    (Actually, what MATH is is M.A.T.H., "Make America Think Harder".  I'm good at basic math, but don't think so clearly at 2 AM!)

    OK, I see what you are saying.  But what I seem to get from Deggans is that he thinks a white male such as myself needs to somehow confess that I am personally responsible for the continuation of racism.  That's a heavy fucking burden if and there are white males out there who feel that way, I feel badly for them.  But for myself, I don't see it.  I'm not going to take on responsibility for something I didn't create or sustain, and I don't feel the need to justify that statement.  In a court of law, I suppose I could.  But I judge myself pretty hard as it it, so I don't need to do that here.  I will say that I think a lot of this is another example off over-the-top political correctness.  To people like Deggans, I would suggest they call out the real fucking racists (of which there are many in America) and stop putting the blame on those of us who get it and try to do as what we can to end racism.  Blaming those who understand the situation and try to make a difference is bullshit.  That's my take, anyway.

    Let me suggest rereading his article Brian. I didnt get that from the article at all. It was a call to action from him to Hanks. Simply put, as a teller of history in his profession, Hanks should include a fuller picture of that history in his future projects, than the average white guy hero stories Hanks can play so well.



    But isn't this expecting more from an entertainer than we should?  I love Tom Hanks' work from the goofy lovable "Big" to the adventuresome "Castaway" to the much more serious "The Post", but I don't look to actors to be on the forefront of social change.  If they are, great.  But that's not their first job.  It's like when Neil Young was asked if things like fighting global warming and supporting Native American rights were his biggest goals he said something like, "Those are things I'm very passionate about, but my biggest job is to make music". 
    "The earth- we could have saved it but we were too damn cheap and lazy."
    -Kurt Vonnegut










  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,486
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    I think you missed the point Deggans was trying to make, entirely, and reached the same conclusion Fox News wants to try and lead viewers to.
    Deggans is not saying Hanks (or other people he mentions) are racists.  In fact, he comes right out and says that in his piece.
    Did you happen to read that?
    I'm sure he would not say anything about the stories you shared support that you are actually racist yourself, despite being white.  ;)
    CRT isn't about trying to tell people they are racists because they are white.


    On a funny note....weren't you a supporter of the Math Candidate?
    :lol:
    80+25+5 would give you 110%


    OH fuck math!  :lol:

    (Actually, what MATH is is M.A.T.H., "Make America Think Harder".  I'm good at basic math, but don't think so clearly at 2 AM!)

    OK, I see what you are saying.  But what I seem to get from Deggans is that he thinks a white male such as myself needs to somehow confess that I am personally responsible for the continuation of racism.  That's a heavy fucking burden if and there are white males out there who feel that way, I feel badly for them.  But for myself, I don't see it.  I'm not going to take on responsibility for something I didn't create or sustain, and I don't feel the need to justify that statement.  In a court of law, I suppose I could.  But I judge myself pretty hard as it it, so I don't need to do that here.  I will say that I think a lot of this is another example off over-the-top political correctness.  To people like Deggans, I would suggest they call out the real fucking racists (of which there are many in America) and stop putting the blame on those of us who get it and try to do as what we can to end racism.  Blaming those who understand the situation and try to make a difference is bullshit.  That's my take, anyway.

    Let me suggest rereading his article Brian. I didnt get that from the article at all. It was a call to action from him to Hanks. Simply put, as a teller of history in his profession, Hanks should include a fuller picture of that history in his future projects, than the average white guy hero stories Hanks can play so well.



    But isn't this expecting more from an entertainer than we should?  I love Tom Hanks' work from the goofy lovable "Big" to the adventuresome "Castaway" to the much more serious "The Post", but I don't look to actors to be on the forefront of social change.  If they are, great.  But that's not their first job.  It's like when Neil Young was asked if things like fighting global warming and supporting Native American rights were his biggest goals he said something like, "Those are things I'm very passionate about, but my biggest job is to make music". 

    no it isnt. these stories suggested by that writer are equally compelling and truer to historical realities than the narrow lens used by hollywood at present. it seems to me thats all he is asking for. that those with the clout, power and ability to elevate one type of story over another should be more equitable in the stories they are a part of making.

    if nothing else, put money behind black film makers, writers etc to expose us to a fuller picture of being human in America and elsewhere.

    and Neil in many cases puts forward those causes he is passionate about WHILE doing his "biggest job"
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,862
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    I think you missed the point Deggans was trying to make, entirely, and reached the same conclusion Fox News wants to try and lead viewers to.
    Deggans is not saying Hanks (or other people he mentions) are racists.  In fact, he comes right out and says that in his piece.
    Did you happen to read that?
    I'm sure he would not say anything about the stories you shared support that you are actually racist yourself, despite being white.  ;)
    CRT isn't about trying to tell people they are racists because they are white.


    On a funny note....weren't you a supporter of the Math Candidate?
    :lol:
    80+25+5 would give you 110%


    OH fuck math!  :lol:

    (Actually, what MATH is is M.A.T.H., "Make America Think Harder".  I'm good at basic math, but don't think so clearly at 2 AM!)

    OK, I see what you are saying.  But what I seem to get from Deggans is that he thinks a white male such as myself needs to somehow confess that I am personally responsible for the continuation of racism.  That's a heavy fucking burden if and there are white males out there who feel that way, I feel badly for them.  But for myself, I don't see it.  I'm not going to take on responsibility for something I didn't create or sustain, and I don't feel the need to justify that statement.  In a court of law, I suppose I could.  But I judge myself pretty hard as it it, so I don't need to do that here.  I will say that I think a lot of this is another example off over-the-top political correctness.  To people like Deggans, I would suggest they call out the real fucking racists (of which there are many in America) and stop putting the blame on those of us who get it and try to do as what we can to end racism.  Blaming those who understand the situation and try to make a difference is bullshit.  That's my take, anyway.

    Let me suggest rereading his article Brian. I didnt get that from the article at all. It was a call to action from him to Hanks. Simply put, as a teller of history in his profession, Hanks should include a fuller picture of that history in his future projects, than the average white guy hero stories Hanks can play so well.



    But isn't this expecting more from an entertainer than we should?  I love Tom Hanks' work from the goofy lovable "Big" to the adventuresome "Castaway" to the much more serious "The Post", but I don't look to actors to be on the forefront of social change.  If they are, great.  But that's not their first job.  It's like when Neil Young was asked if things like fighting global warming and supporting Native American rights were his biggest goals he said something like, "Those are things I'm very passionate about, but my biggest job is to make music". 

    no it isnt. these stories suggested by that writer are equally compelling and truer to historical realities than the narrow lens used by hollywood at present. it seems to me thats all he is asking for. that those with the clout, power and ability to elevate one type of story over another should be more equitable in the stories they are a part of making.

    if nothing else, put money behind black film makers, writers etc to expose us to a fuller picture of being human in America and elsewhere.

    and Neil in many cases puts forward those causes he is passionate about WHILE doing his "biggest job"

    Well, that's fair enough although I don't know how much control actors- even big name people- have over writers and producers and such.

    In any case, for me looking to entertainers for solutions to social issues is not much my thing these day (and I use to be a big advocate for that).  I think in some ways it can detract because it puts the focus on people for whom that is not their specialty.  I'd rather listen to what Dr. Cornell West has to say about race than (much as I'm a fan) Tom Hanks.
    "The earth- we could have saved it but we were too damn cheap and lazy."
    -Kurt Vonnegut










  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,235
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    I think you missed the point Deggans was trying to make, entirely, and reached the same conclusion Fox News wants to try and lead viewers to.
    Deggans is not saying Hanks (or other people he mentions) are racists.  In fact, he comes right out and says that in his piece.
    Did you happen to read that?
    I'm sure he would not say anything about the stories you shared support that you are actually racist yourself, despite being white.  ;)
    CRT isn't about trying to tell people they are racists because they are white.


    On a funny note....weren't you a supporter of the Math Candidate?
    :lol:
    80+25+5 would give you 110%


    OH fuck math!  :lol:

    (Actually, what MATH is is M.A.T.H., "Make America Think Harder".  I'm good at basic math, but don't think so clearly at 2 AM!)

    OK, I see what you are saying.  But what I seem to get from Deggans is that he thinks a white male such as myself needs to somehow confess that I am personally responsible for the continuation of racism.  That's a heavy fucking burden if and there are white males out there who feel that way, I feel badly for them.  But for myself, I don't see it.  I'm not going to take on responsibility for something I didn't create or sustain, and I don't feel the need to justify that statement.  In a court of law, I suppose I could.  But I judge myself pretty hard as it it, so I don't need to do that here.  I will say that I think a lot of this is another example off over-the-top political correctness.  To people like Deggans, I would suggest they call out the real fucking racists (of which there are many in America) and stop putting the blame on those of us who get it and try to do as what we can to end racism.  Blaming those who understand the situation and try to make a difference is bullshit.  That's my take, anyway.

    Let me suggest rereading his article Brian. I didnt get that from the article at all. It was a call to action from him to Hanks. Simply put, as a teller of history in his profession, Hanks should include a fuller picture of that history in his future projects, than the average white guy hero stories Hanks can play so well.



    But isn't this expecting more from an entertainer than we should?  I love Tom Hanks' work from the goofy lovable "Big" to the adventuresome "Castaway" to the much more serious "The Post", but I don't look to actors to be on the forefront of social change.  If they are, great.  But that's not their first job.  It's like when Neil Young was asked if things like fighting global warming and supporting Native American rights were his biggest goals he said something like, "Those are things I'm very passionate about, but my biggest job is to make music". 

    no it isnt. these stories suggested by that writer are equally compelling and truer to historical realities than the narrow lens used by hollywood at present. it seems to me thats all he is asking for. that those with the clout, power and ability to elevate one type of story over another should be more equitable in the stories they are a part of making.

    if nothing else, put money behind black film makers, writers etc to expose us to a fuller picture of being human in America and elsewhere.

    and Neil in many cases puts forward those causes he is passionate about WHILE doing his "biggest job"
    Support Tyler Perry for film and TV.  He has single handedly done more for the Black community in regards to both film and TV than anyone else I can remember.  

    He walks it like he talks it and I enjoy his work
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,311
    I’m not sure if this is the spot to discuss this, but here I go…how do you eliminate systemic racism?  Recently an Inuit Member of  Parliament decided not to run again because she was often a victim of systemic racism in Parliament?  I work at a school board in the 4th most diverse city in Canada…it’s a pretty damn white school board…certainly not a reflection of the schools population?  

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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,420
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 

    I would agree that in North America race weighs much in many things but I would never say everything.  First of all, that's not a provable notion and I think it's best to be able to substantiate any statement made regarding such an important issue. And secondly, if you go about trying to educate white America about race and tell people something like that, you'll do as much to lead as many people to dig their heels in further in their racist views as you will to change minds.  I would take a firm approach to race education, but one perhaps for tactful.

    I am not going about trying to educate white America about race. I'm not trying to educate anyone about anything, I'm stating my opinion, and my opinion is that issues somehow related to race have a far wider reach and impact than white North Americans ever consider.

    And fuck tactfulness; that sounds like just another version of "go slow, be patient, it'll change", which people of colour have heard for decade upon decade. 

    Fine, fuck tactfulness.  I can understand that notion.  But if you think I am suggesting "go slow, be patient, it'll change" you know less about my way of thinking than I would have supposed.  Perhaps there is a better work I could have use than "tact".  But somehow I think you would have slammed whatever I would have said anyway.  Seems to be your M.O. these days.


    Wait, so now I argue with people not just about what they said, but what they didn't say but maybe thought about saying?

    Sounds exhausting :lol: 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,862
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?
    What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?
    Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

    I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 

    I would agree that in North America race weighs much in many things but I would never say everything.  First of all, that's not a provable notion and I think it's best to be able to substantiate any statement made regarding such an important issue. And secondly, if you go about trying to educate white America about race and tell people something like that, you'll do as much to lead as many people to dig their heels in further in their racist views as you will to change minds.  I would take a firm approach to race education, but one perhaps for tactful.

    I am not going about trying to educate white America about race. I'm not trying to educate anyone about anything, I'm stating my opinion, and my opinion is that issues somehow related to race have a far wider reach and impact than white North Americans ever consider.

    And fuck tactfulness; that sounds like just another version of "go slow, be patient, it'll change", which people of colour have heard for decade upon decade. 

    Fine, fuck tactfulness.  I can understand that notion.  But if you think I am suggesting "go slow, be patient, it'll change" you know less about my way of thinking than I would have supposed.  Perhaps there is a better work I could have use than "tact".  But somehow I think you would have slammed whatever I would have said anyway.  Seems to be your M.O. these days.


    Wait, so now I argue with people not just about what they said, but what they didn't say but maybe thought about saying?

    Sounds exhausting :lol: 

    Lets just discuss and not argue. 
    "The earth- we could have saved it but we were too damn cheap and lazy."
    -Kurt Vonnegut










  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 18,459

    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,235
    We should be doing both and doing a poor job at it.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 25,375
    We should be preserving monuments to people who seceded and then fought against our country?   

    Not sure I can understand that.   
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,486
    We should be preserving monuments to people who seceded and then fought against our country?   

    Not sure I can understand that.   

    preserved with historically accurate narrative in musuems etc explaining also the white supremacy behind these monuments....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,420
    Some monuments, maybe, with fulsome information, but certainly not all of them. There are scads of these monuments around and the majority of them don't have historical or artistic value, and there's no point in cluttering up museums just to appease those who object to their removal. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 25,375
    OK, I can see maintaining to point at the failed attempt to separate our country so that slaves could continue to line the pockets of the rich. 
    (Also, don't forget the 1800s equivalents of FreeDumb....sure there are other items beyond Slavery that those folks didn't want others governing.)
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,235
    mickeyrat said:
    We should be preserving monuments to people who seceded and then fought against our country?   

    Not sure I can understand that.   

    preserved with historically accurate narrative in musuems etc explaining also the white supremacy behind these monuments....
    Exactly this.

    I have no problem with a plaque explaining how a statue came to be where it is.  I think that holds more weight than putting it in a museum.

    I'd be interested to know how a confederate statue came to be in town square 150 years AFTER the war.  Whom commissioned it, why it was perceived to be a good idea to place it there, etc.

    Some monuments, maybe, with fulsome information, but certainly not all of them. There are scads of these monuments around and the majority of them don't have historical or artistic value, and there's no point in cluttering up museums just to appease those who object to their removal. 
    I wonder how they even got to be there in the first place?

    Understanding how and why I think does a great service.  It amazes me that this ever happened in the first place.
  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,204
    edited June 29
    I went to catholic school.  You can imagine my surprise when I began learning about the real world in my late teens / early twenties. :) 

    I'm Canadian. I have no idea what CRT is.  My guess is... it's a proposed plan to teach kids about race history and bigotry/prejudice in american history.  I'm all for it. But I don't think USA is anywhere near ready for it.   I think it should start early.  Mainstream media seems hell bent on brainwashing people. Whether it's CNN or Fox News...  News isn't news. Facts are distorted.  If we can teach young people early on to not buy the garbage they're being fed on TV or on their phones, we'll all be better off for it. 

    What gets fascinating and distorted about learning in school is creating a culture of what is good and what is bad.  What is right and what is wrong.  What is true and what is false.  Sounds pretty easy, but in the USA especially, the line between right and wrong has never been more blurry. What kids are going to be learning in school is going to be fought by their parents and politicians... which I think is what's happening with this CRT stuff. 

    I can only imagine being an American kid....   learning history in high school....  about the civil war....  in a building named after Robert E. Lee.  My goodness gracious.  Critical Race Theory?!?  (PLAYOFFS?! You're talking about PLAYOFFS?!)  Talk about confusion and sending mixed signals.  

    Someone pointed out earlier that teachers shouldn't be activists.  I agree. They shouldn't be racists either. Much like cops, because they're human, you're always going to get the good with the bad. Some will be overly left, some will be overly right. Hopefully there is a way to weed that out. 

    Here in Canada I learned about Residential Schools from a rock star.  That's just sad. It should have been taught and explained in school. Bottom line though .. in Canada and in USA I think, education is run by government...  and the government sucks dicks. 

    I think the focus on schooling and education should always be about truth and perspective... especially history. Our historical figures are always glorified for the good they do, never criticized for the bad.  There is nothing.. nothing wrong with learning everything.  Hiding or masking anything from history for whatever reason... especially pride, or embarrassment is dead wrong. But again, this is 2021 and if we as a people don't start getting our act in gear, you can forget about Critical Race Theory.  The rate of dumbasses getting clout, popularity, and prominence is growing and growing (Donald Trump was prez for 4 years..... and still thinks he is.... as do like millions of you Americans)  Up could soon become down.  Blue could become green.  The rifts in the Divided States of America are growing bigger and bigger. 
    Post edited by Parksy on
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,235
    Parksy said:
    I went to catholic school.  You can imagine my surprise when I began learning about the real world in my late teens / early twenties. :) 

    I'm Canadian. I have no idea what CRT is.  My guess is... it's a proposed plan to teach kids about race history and bigotry/prejudice in american history.  I'm all for it. But I don't think USA is anywhere near ready for it.   I think it should start early.  Mainstream media seems hell bent on brainwashing people. Whether it's CNN or Fox News...  News isn't news. Facts are distorted.  If we can teach young people early on to not buy the garbage they're being fed on TV or on their phones, we'll all be better off for it. 

    What gets fascinating and distorted about learning in school is creating a culture of what is good and what is bad.  What is right and what is wrong.  What is true and what is false.  Sounds pretty easy, but in the USA especially, the line between right and wrong has never been more blurry. What kids are going to be learning in school is going to be fought by their parents and politicians... which I think is what's happening with this CRT stuff. 

    I can only imagine being an American kid....   learning history in high school....  about the civil war....  in a building named after Robert E. Lee.  My goodness gracious.  Critical Race Theory?!?  (PLAYOFFS?! You're talking about PLAYOFFS?!)  Talk about confusion and sending mixed signals.  

    Someone pointed out earlier that teachers shouldn't be activists.  I agree. They shouldn't be racists either. Much like cops, because they're human, you're always going to get the good with the bad. Some will be overly left, some will be overly right. Hopefully there is a way to weed that out. 

    Here in Canada I learned about Residential Schools from a rock star.  That's just sad. It should have been taught and explained in school. Bottom line though .. in Canada and in USA I think, education is run by government...  and the government sucks dicks. 

    I think the focus on schooling and education should always be about truth and perspective... especially history. Our historical figures are always glorified for the good they do, never criticized for the bad.  There is nothing.. nothing wrong with learning everything.  Hiding or masking anything from history for whatever reason... especially pride, or embarrassment is dead wrong. But again, this is 2021 and if we as a people don't start getting our act in gear, you can forget about Critical Race Theory.  The rate of dumbasses getting clout, popularity, and prominence is growing and growing (Donald Trump was prez for 4 years..... and still thinks he is.... as do like millions of you Americans)  Up could soon become down.  Blue could become green.  The rifts in the Divided States of America are growing bigger and bigger. 
    Well thought out.  You are right about a divide too, more so than ever.

    People that didn't have a voice now have one and probably shouldn't but they do and that is a problem.  Freedom of speech is a powerful tool.




  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 25,375
    Parksy said:
    I went to catholic school.  You can imagine my surprise when I began learning about the real world in my late teens / early twenties. :) 

    I'm Canadian. I have no idea what CRT is.  My guess is... it's a proposed plan to teach kids about race history and bigotry/prejudice in american history.  I'm all for it. But I don't think USA is anywhere near ready for it.   I think it should start early.  Mainstream media seems hell bent on brainwashing people. Whether it's CNN or Fox News...  News isn't news. Facts are distorted.  If we can teach young people early on to not buy the garbage they're being fed on TV or on their phones, we'll all be better off for it. 

    What gets fascinating and distorted about learning in school is creating a culture of what is good and what is bad.  What is right and what is wrong.  What is true and what is false.  Sounds pretty easy, but in the USA especially, the line between right and wrong has never been more blurry. What kids are going to be learning in school is going to be fought by their parents and politicians... which I think is what's happening with this CRT stuff. 

    I can only imagine being an American kid....   learning history in high school....  about the civil war....  in a building named after Robert E. Lee.  My goodness gracious.  Critical Race Theory?!?  (PLAYOFFS?! You're talking about PLAYOFFS?!)  Talk about confusion and sending mixed signals.  

    Someone pointed out earlier that teachers shouldn't be activists.  I agree. They shouldn't be racists either. Much like cops, because they're human, you're always going to get the good with the bad. Some will be overly left, some will be overly right. Hopefully there is a way to weed that out. 

    Here in Canada I learned about Residential Schools from a rock star.  That's just sad. It should have been taught and explained in school. Bottom line though .. in Canada and in USA I think, education is run by government...  and the government sucks dicks. 

    I think the focus on schooling and education should always be about truth and perspective... especially history. Our historical figures are always glorified for the good they do, never criticized for the bad.  There is nothing.. nothing wrong with learning everything.  Hiding or masking anything from history for whatever reason... especially pride, or embarrassment is dead wrong. But again, this is 2021 and if we as a people don't start getting our act in gear, you can forget about Critical Race Theory.  The rate of dumbasses getting clout, popularity, and prominence is growing and growing (Donald Trump was prez for 4 years..... and still thinks he is.... as do like millions of you Americans)  Up could soon become down.  Blue could become green.  The rifts in the Divided States of America are growing bigger and bigger. 

    I also had the great misfortune to attend Catholic School, for a number of years.

    While CRT is an American term and approach I would think that, globally, we would do well as a people to teach truth to our children.  This avoidance/masking is not a distinctly American problem.

    Writing as an American, I do believe that teaching our children what is real is the only potential way we have to get clear of the idiocracy.   A friend shared something with me yesterday that his town actually distributed to their citizens which was totally ignorant of the true history of this country.  He felt it was done with malice -- I assumed it was done through ignorance.  Either way, we should not be perpetuating the bullshit that we are, here, in the USA, in 2021. 
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 28,235
    Parksy said:
    I went to catholic school.  You can imagine my surprise when I began learning about the real world in my late teens / early twenties. :) 

    I'm Canadian. I have no idea what CRT is.  My guess is... it's a proposed plan to teach kids about race history and bigotry/prejudice in american history.  I'm all for it. But I don't think USA is anywhere near ready for it.   I think it should start early.  Mainstream media seems hell bent on brainwashing people. Whether it's CNN or Fox News...  News isn't news. Facts are distorted.  If we can teach young people early on to not buy the garbage they're being fed on TV or on their phones, we'll all be better off for it. 

    What gets fascinating and distorted about learning in school is creating a culture of what is good and what is bad.  What is right and what is wrong.  What is true and what is false.  Sounds pretty easy, but in the USA especially, the line between right and wrong has never been more blurry. What kids are going to be learning in school is going to be fought by their parents and politicians... which I think is what's happening with this CRT stuff. 

    I can only imagine being an American kid....   learning history in high school....  about the civil war....  in a building named after Robert E. Lee.  My goodness gracious.  Critical Race Theory?!?  (PLAYOFFS?! You're talking about PLAYOFFS?!)  Talk about confusion and sending mixed signals.  

    Someone pointed out earlier that teachers shouldn't be activists.  I agree. They shouldn't be racists either. Much like cops, because they're human, you're always going to get the good with the bad. Some will be overly left, some will be overly right. Hopefully there is a way to weed that out. 

    Here in Canada I learned about Residential Schools from a rock star.  That's just sad. It should have been taught and explained in school. Bottom line though .. in Canada and in USA I think, education is run by government...  and the government sucks dicks. 

    I think the focus on schooling and education should always be about truth and perspective... especially history. Our historical figures are always glorified for the good they do, never criticized for the bad.  There is nothing.. nothing wrong with learning everything.  Hiding or masking anything from history for whatever reason... especially pride, or embarrassment is dead wrong. But again, this is 2021 and if we as a people don't start getting our act in gear, you can forget about Critical Race Theory.  The rate of dumbasses getting clout, popularity, and prominence is growing and growing (Donald Trump was prez for 4 years..... and still thinks he is.... as do like millions of you Americans)  Up could soon become down.  Blue could become green.  The rifts in the Divided States of America are growing bigger and bigger. 

    I also had the great misfortune to attend Catholic School, for a number of years.

    While CRT is an American term and approach I would think that, globally, we would do well as a people to teach truth to our children.  This avoidance/masking is not a distinctly American problem.

    Writing as an American, I do believe that teaching our children what is real is the only potential way we have to get clear of the idiocracy.   A friend shared something with me yesterday that his town actually distributed to their citizens which was totally ignorant of the true history of this country.  He felt it was done with malice -- I assumed it was done through ignorance.  Either way, we should not be perpetuating the bullshit that we are, here, in the USA, in 2021. 
    I must have been lucky in that I had teachers tell us about the ugly truths so when I learned more it wasn't so such a shock.

    I'd love to pick up a textbook and see what is actually in them.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 22,486
     
    Union will defend teachers in 'critical race theory' fights
    By COLLIN BINKLEY
    9 mins ago

    One of the nation’s largest teachers unions on Tuesday vowed to defend members who are punished for teaching an “honest history” of the United States, a measure that’s intended to counter the wave of states seeking to limit classroom discussion on race and discrimination.

    In prepared remarks obtained by The Associated Press, American Federation of Teachers president Randi Weingarten said her union is preparing litigation and has a legal defense fund “ready to go.” She promised to fight “culture warriors” who attempt to limit lessons on racism and discrimination by labeling it as critical race theory.

    At least six states have passed new laws limiting how race can be taught in the classroom, and similar proposals are being considered in at least a dozen others. Many of the bills are intended to bar the teaching of critical race theory — an academic framework that examines history through the lens of racism. It centers on the idea that racism is systemic in the nation’s institutions and that they function to maintain the dominance of white people in society.

    Last month, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott signed a law forbidding schools from teaching that people “should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish or any other form of psychological distress” because of their race or sex. It adds that slavery and racism can only be taught as a deviation from the nation's “authentic founding principles" of liberty and equality.

    Bills in some other states threaten to fine individual teachers who violate the rules or reduce state funding to their schools.

    “Mark my words: Our union will defend any member who gets in trouble for teaching honest history,” Weingarten said in remarks for a virtual address to union members. “Teaching the truth is not radical or wrong. Distorting history and threatening educators for teaching the truth is what is truly radical and wrong.”

    In an interview, Weingarten said the union is adding $2.5 million to an existing legal defense fund in anticipation of local fights over the teaching of race. The funding will be used to defend teachers who are disciplined for teaching about slavery and racism, Weingarten said. The union is also considering filing lawsuits to get clarification about new state laws limiting how racism can be discussed in schools, she said.

    “We’re looking at these laws to see if courts will give some clarification in advance,” Weingarten said. “It just looks like it’s an attempt to erase so much of the history of the United States.”

    Once an obscure academic idea, critical race theory has become a political rallying cry for Republicans who argue that it sows division and makes children feel guilty for being white. But Weingarten said the concept has mostly been taught at the college level and is not taught at the nation’s elementary, middle and high schools.

    Instead, she says conservatives are invoking the theory to bully teachers and prevent any critical discussion of the nation’s history. Some of the state laws are so expansive, she said, that they appear to prevent any accurate lesson on the Civil War, slavery or its abolition.

    “Teaching America’s history requires considering all the facts available to us — including those that are uncomfortable — like the history of enslavement and discrimination toward people of color and people perceived as different,” she wrote in her comments. “Years ago, the country unified against Holocaust deniers. We must unite again to address racism and its long-term effects.”

    The nation's other major teachers union, the National Education Association, recently issued its own call for an honest teaching of the nation's racial histories. At the union's national meeting last week, president Becky Pringle urged teachers to prepare students for a society that “has wrestled with the sins of its past” and learned from them.

    “If this grand experiment in democracy is to succeed, if the inhabitants of our nation are to prosper, we must continuously do the work to challenge ourselves and others to dismantle the racist interconnected systems, and the economic injustices that have perpetuated systemic inequities,” Pringle said.

    Weingarten’s pledge was included as part of a broader call for improved civics education. She called for improved lessons on how to identify disinformation and on current events such as the Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. To help, the union is recruiting 20 teachers in three school districts to produce new classroom materials and share them with other teachers across the country.

    Much of her speech is focused on the coming school year and beyond, as the nation starts to recover from the pandemic. But she also raised concerns about the rapidly spreading delta variant of the coronavirus and its effect on schooling the fall. Weingarten said schools “can reopen this fall” for full in-person learning, but she cautioned that “there are still risks.”

    The union is seeking updated school guidance from the Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, asking whether students under 12 should wear masks and whether 3 feet of physical distance is enough. The agency’s most recent guidance recommending 3 feet between students was issued before the delta variant started spreading in the U.S.

    "We need this science-grounded guidance to clear up ambiguities, and that reflect the realities of school environments,” Weingarten said in her comments.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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