Critical Race Theory

brianlux

F Me In The Brain said:

I think you missed the point Deggans was trying to make, entirely, and reached the same conclusion Fox News wants to try and lead viewers to.
Deggans is not saying Hanks (or other people he mentions) are racists.  In fact, he comes right out and says that in his piece.
Did you happen to read that?
I'm sure he would not say anything about the stories you shared support that you are actually racist yourself, despite being white. 
CRT isn't about trying to tell people they are racists because they are white.


On a funny note....weren't you a supporter of the Math Candidate?

80+25+5 would give you 110%

OH fuck math! 

(Actually, what MATH is is M.A.T.H., "Make America Think Harder".  I'm good at basic math, but don't think so clearly at 2 AM!)

OK, I see what you are saying.  But what I seem to get from Deggans is that he thinks a white male such as myself needs to somehow confess that I am personally responsible for the continuation of racism.  That's a heavy fucking burden if and there are white males out there who feel that way, I feel badly for them.  But for myself, I don't see it.  I'm not going to take on responsibility for something I didn't create or sustain, and I don't feel the need to justify that statement.  In a court of law, I suppose I could.  But I judge myself pretty hard as it it, so I don't need to do that here.  I will say that I think a lot of this is another example off over-the-top political correctness.  To people like Deggans, I would suggest they call out the real fucking racists (of which there are many in America) and stop putting the blame on those of us who get it and try to do as what we can to end racism.  Blaming those who understand the situation and try to make a difference is bullshit.  That's my take, anyway.

mcgruff10

Does this mean I can’t teach about the origins of the KKK and lynchings?  Is emitt till now a no no? Black codes?  Tulsa? Jim Crow laws?  Literacy tests?  Tuskegee experiments?

oftenreading

mcgruff10 said:

Does this mean I can’t teach about the origins of the KKK and lynchings?  Is emitt till now a no no? Black codes?  Tulsa? Jim Crow laws?  Literacy tests?  Tuskegee experiments?

Does it? Presumably as a teacher you get information and material on curriculum development and delivery. 

oftenreading

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?

What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?

Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 

I would agree that in North America race weighs much in many things but I would never say everything.  First of all, that's not a provable notion and I think it's best to be able to substantiate any statement made regarding such an important issue. And secondly, if you go about trying to educate white America about race and tell people something like that, you'll do as much to lead as many people to dig their heels in further in their racist views as you will to change minds.  I would take a firm approach to race education, but one perhaps for tactful.

I am not going about trying to educate white America about race. I'm not trying to educate anyone about anything, I'm stating my opinion, and my opinion is that issues somehow related to race have a far wider reach and impact than white North Americans ever consider.

And fuck tactfulness; that sounds like just another version of "go slow, be patient, it'll change", which people of colour have heard for decade upon decade. 

F Me In The Brain

McG, it doesn't mean that at all.

Brian, I understand what your point it.  I don't think that is what people want to teach....but that is the fear white folks are having about it

I don't necessarily 100% agree with what Deggans is saying about what he feels the responsibility of Hanks or associates is....but I certainly agree that the way we present most things is from a white/heavily biased and privileged/background.  As a country ...and I certainly see things that way, first.  It is almost impossible not to, even when I can recognize that this is the perspective I'm seeing through .
Trying to make our kids aware of this makes good sense, to me.
(And, continuing to try and recognize/learn where I can see other perspectives and realities.)

The 110% made me chuckle.  Math errors into the night / early morn!
I make them at all times of day.

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?

What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?

Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 

I would agree that in North America race weighs much in many things but I would never say everything.  First of all, that's not a provable notion and I think it's best to be able to substantiate any statement made regarding such an important issue. And secondly, if you go about trying to educate white America about race and tell people something like that, you'll do as much to lead as many people to dig their heels in further in their racist views as you will to change minds.  I would take a firm approach to race education, but one perhaps for tactful.

I am not going about trying to educate white America about race. I'm not trying to educate anyone about anything, I'm stating my opinion, and my opinion is that issues somehow related to race have a far wider reach and impact than white North Americans ever consider.

And fuck tactfulness; that sounds like just another version of "go slow, be patient, it'll change", which people of colour have heard for decade upon decade. 

Fine, fuck tactfulness.  I can understand that notion.  But if you think I am suggesting "go slow, be patient, it'll change" you know less about my way of thinking than I would have supposed.  Perhaps there is a better work I could have use than "tact".  But somehow I think you would have slammed whatever I would have said anyway.  Seems to be your M.O. these days.

mcgruff10

So Brett, what does it all mean?  I m in blue blue New Jersey so this has no bearing on me at all.

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I think you missed the point Deggans was trying to make, entirely, and reached the same conclusion Fox News wants to try and lead viewers to.
Deggans is not saying Hanks (or other people he mentions) are racists.  In fact, he comes right out and says that in his piece.
Did you happen to read that?
I'm sure he would not say anything about the stories you shared support that you are actually racist yourself, despite being white. 
CRT isn't about trying to tell people they are racists because they are white.


On a funny note....weren't you a supporter of the Math Candidate?

80+25+5 would give you 110%

OH fuck math! 

(Actually, what MATH is is M.A.T.H., "Make America Think Harder".  I'm good at basic math, but don't think so clearly at 2 AM!)

OK, I see what you are saying.  But what I seem to get from Deggans is that he thinks a white male such as myself needs to somehow confess that I am personally responsible for the continuation of racism.  That's a heavy fucking burden if and there are white males out there who feel that way, I feel badly for them.  But for myself, I don't see it.  I'm not going to take on responsibility for something I didn't create or sustain, and I don't feel the need to justify that statement.  In a court of law, I suppose I could.  But I judge myself pretty hard as it it, so I don't need to do that here.  I will say that I think a lot of this is another example off over-the-top political correctness.  To people like Deggans, I would suggest they call out the real fucking racists (of which there are many in America) and stop putting the blame on those of us who get it and try to do as what we can to end racism.  Blaming those who understand the situation and try to make a difference is bullshit.  That's my take, anyway.

Let me suggest rereading his article Brian. I didnt get that from the article at all. It was a call to action from him to Hanks. Simply put, as a teller of history in his profession, Hanks should include a fuller picture of that history in his future projects, than the average white guy hero stories Hanks can play so well.

mickeyrat

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Opinion Opinion: Tom Hanks Is A Non-Racist. It's Time For Him To Be Anti-Racist June 13, 20216:08 AM ET Eric Deggans Facebook Twitter Tumblr Pinterest Instagram Tom Hanks recently wrote an essay in The New York Times urging more widespread teaching of the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre. The Oscar winner has built a career on movies about American white men "doing the right thing." Steve Granitz/WireImage First, I must note how much I love Tom Hanks as a performer, Hollywood citizen and all-around stand-up guy. Of course, he's a consummate actor, with two Oscars and starring roles in landmark films such as Philadelphia and Forrest Gump. He's been an outspoken advocate for gay rights and environmentalism. He even helped us get through the pandemic, setting a graceful, confident example when he and his wife, Rita Wilson, were among the first celebrities publicly revealed to have COVID-19. So when I saw he recently had written a guest essay for The New York Times calling for more widespread teaching about the Tulsa Race Massacre – when white mobs in Oklahoma burned a prosperous Black neighborhood to the ground in 1921, killing between 100 and 300 people — I was sincerely heartened. Now, I thought, we'll see him examine how his work — so often focused on the achievements of virtuous white, male Americans – may have made it tougher for tales about atrocities such as Tulsa to find similar space. But he didn't fully go there. Here's what he did say: "History was mostly written by white people about white people like me, while the history of Black people — including the horrors of Tulsa — was too often left out. Until relatively recently, the entertainment industry, which helps shape what is history and what is forgotten, did the same. That includes projects of mine." He goes on to say he learned of Tulsa from an article in The New York Times last year. And, another line, later in the piece: "Today, I think historically based fiction entertainment must portray the burden of racism in our nation for the sake of the art form's claims to verisimilitude and authenticity." These are wise words. And it's wonderful that Hanks stepped forward to advocate for teaching about a race-based massacre – indirectly pushing back against all the hyperventilating about critical race theory that's too often more about silencing such lessons on America's darkest chapters. But it is not enough. He's built a career playing righteous white men After many years of speaking out about race and media in America, I know the toughest thing for some white Americans — especially those who consider themselves advocates against racism — is to admit how they were personally and specifically connected to the elevation of white culture over other cultures. But in Hanks' case, he is no average American. Or average Hollywood star, for that matter. A cast-autographed helmet belonging to the character Hanks played in the 1998 World War II drama Saving Private Ryan. Andrew Matthews/PA Images via Getty Images Over the years, he has starred in a lot of big movies about historical events, including Saving Private Ryan, Greyhound, Forrest Gump, Apollo 13, Bridge of Spies and News of the World. He has served as a producer or executive producer on even more films and TV shows based on American history, including Band of Brothers, The Pacific, John Adams and From the Earth to the Moon. He was an executive producer of documentaries such as The Assassination of President Kennedy and The Sixties on CNN. In other words, he is a baby boomer star who has built a sizable part of his career on stories about American white men "doing the right thing." He even played a former Confederate soldier in one of his latest films, News of the World, standing up for a blond, white girl who had been kidnapped and raised by a Native American tribe. But the stories often leave out Black contribution He's not alone. Superstar director Steven Spielberg has a similar pedigree (notwithstanding occasional projects such as The Color Purple and Amistad). And fellow director Ron Howard. These stories of white Americans smashing the Nazi war machine or riding rockets into space are important. But they often leave out how Black soldiers returned home from fighting in World War II to find they weren't allowed to use the GI Bill to secure home loans in certain neighborhoods or were cheated out of claiming benefits at all. They don't describe how Black people were excluded from participating in space missions as astronauts early in America's space program. As the book and film Hidden Figures notes, even brilliant Black and female mathematicians faced discrimination in the space program during the 1950s and 1960s. If given better opportunities, perhaps they could have helped us get to the moon sooner, by putting our best minds on the problem, regardless of race. Director Steven Spielberg Craig Sjodin/ABC via Getty Images In some ways, Hollywood is tripped up by its own storytelling habits. Often, in modern films and TV shows, open and ugly expressions of racism are used to telegraph to the audience that a character is a terrible person. Think of the moment when a mobster in The Godfather notes he wants to focus selling hard drugs to Black people or "the coloreds" because, "they're animals anyway, so let them lose their souls." Our antihero, Marlon Brando's Don Corleone, had resisted selling drugs at all, but accepts a compromise. Once that dynamic is established, it's tough to show a character the audience is supposed to love displaying the type of racism that was common in their time. Which means the product of that racism – from lynchings to redlining – is often disappeared, too. There's a difference between non-racist and anti-racist For those of us who speak often on these issues, one of the toughest things to do is to go to a white person who is trying hard to be an ally and tell them they need to do more. And I'm sure there are plenty of Hanks fans out there of every stripe who will say I am expecting too much, being ungrateful toward a big star who said more than he had to. And understand: I'm not saying Hanks, Howard or Spielberg are racist. I'm not even saying that Hanks should have made or supported a film specifically about the Tulsa Race Massacre long before now (though I am astonished that a guy who has been making film and TV projects rooted in American history for at least 25 years didn't find out about Tulsa until 2020.) A man holds a Black Lives Matter flag during a protest in St. Paul, Minn., in March shortly before the start of Derek Chauvin's trial in George Floyd's killing. Kerem Yucel/AFP via Getty Images But over this summer, in the wake of George Floyd's murder by a white police officer, I spent a lot of time investigating the difference between being non-racist and being anti-racist. Anti-racism implies action – looking around your universe and taking specific steps to dismantle systemic racism. So I am saying it is time for folks like Hanks to be anti-racist. What Hanks (and Hollywood) should do next If he really wants to make a difference, Hanks and other stars need to talk specifically about how their work has contributed to these problems and how they will change. They need to make specific commitments to changing the conversation in story subjects, casting and execution. That is the truly hard work of building change. Race Hear Eric Deggans Discuss This Essay On 'All Things Considered'

Rather than talk about what "historically based fiction entertainment" must do, why not talk about what Tom Hanks, longtime scripted and documentary executive producer, will do? As a star who can get a movie made just by agreeing to appear in it, what will Tom Hanks, movie star, actually do?

People often say columns such as the one by Hanks are published to start a conversation. Well, here is my suggestion: Let's make part of that conversation how baby boomer filmmakers have made fortunes amplifying ideas of white American exceptionalism and heroism.

And how their responsibility now lies with helping dismantle and broaden the ideas they helped cement in the American mind.

• 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre
• Movies
• Tom Hanks

mickeyrat

if I were smart enough I'd share this differently...

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I think you missed the point Deggans was trying to make, entirely, and reached the same conclusion Fox News wants to try and lead viewers to.
Deggans is not saying Hanks (or other people he mentions) are racists.  In fact, he comes right out and says that in his piece.
Did you happen to read that?
I'm sure he would not say anything about the stories you shared support that you are actually racist yourself, despite being white. 
CRT isn't about trying to tell people they are racists because they are white.


On a funny note....weren't you a supporter of the Math Candidate?

80+25+5 would give you 110%

OH fuck math! 

(Actually, what MATH is is M.A.T.H., "Make America Think Harder".  I'm good at basic math, but don't think so clearly at 2 AM!)

OK, I see what you are saying.  But what I seem to get from Deggans is that he thinks a white male such as myself needs to somehow confess that I am personally responsible for the continuation of racism.  That's a heavy fucking burden if and there are white males out there who feel that way, I feel badly for them.  But for myself, I don't see it.  I'm not going to take on responsibility for something I didn't create or sustain, and I don't feel the need to justify that statement.  In a court of law, I suppose I could.  But I judge myself pretty hard as it it, so I don't need to do that here.  I will say that I think a lot of this is another example off over-the-top political correctness.  To people like Deggans, I would suggest they call out the real fucking racists (of which there are many in America) and stop putting the blame on those of us who get it and try to do as what we can to end racism.  Blaming those who understand the situation and try to make a difference is bullshit.  That's my take, anyway.

Let me suggest rereading his article Brian. I didnt get that from the article at all. It was a call to action from him to Hanks. Simply put, as a teller of history in his profession, Hanks should include a fuller picture of that history in his future projects, than the average white guy hero stories Hanks can play so well.

But isn't this expecting more from an entertainer than we should?  I love Tom Hanks' work from the goofy lovable "Big" to the adventuresome "Castaway" to the much more serious "The Post", but I don't look to actors to be on the forefront of social change.  If they are, great.  But that's not their first job.  It's like when Neil Young was asked if things like fighting global warming and supporting Native American rights were his biggest goals he said something like, "Those are things I'm very passionate about, but my biggest job is to make music". 

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I think you missed the point Deggans was trying to make, entirely, and reached the same conclusion Fox News wants to try and lead viewers to.
Deggans is not saying Hanks (or other people he mentions) are racists.  In fact, he comes right out and says that in his piece.
Did you happen to read that?
I'm sure he would not say anything about the stories you shared support that you are actually racist yourself, despite being white. 
CRT isn't about trying to tell people they are racists because they are white.


On a funny note....weren't you a supporter of the Math Candidate?

80+25+5 would give you 110%

OH fuck math! 

(Actually, what MATH is is M.A.T.H., "Make America Think Harder".  I'm good at basic math, but don't think so clearly at 2 AM!)

OK, I see what you are saying.  But what I seem to get from Deggans is that he thinks a white male such as myself needs to somehow confess that I am personally responsible for the continuation of racism.  That's a heavy fucking burden if and there are white males out there who feel that way, I feel badly for them.  But for myself, I don't see it.  I'm not going to take on responsibility for something I didn't create or sustain, and I don't feel the need to justify that statement.  In a court of law, I suppose I could.  But I judge myself pretty hard as it it, so I don't need to do that here.  I will say that I think a lot of this is another example off over-the-top political correctness.  To people like Deggans, I would suggest they call out the real fucking racists (of which there are many in America) and stop putting the blame on those of us who get it and try to do as what we can to end racism.  Blaming those who understand the situation and try to make a difference is bullshit.  That's my take, anyway.

Let me suggest rereading his article Brian. I didnt get that from the article at all. It was a call to action from him to Hanks. Simply put, as a teller of history in his profession, Hanks should include a fuller picture of that history in his future projects, than the average white guy hero stories Hanks can play so well.

But isn't this expecting more from an entertainer than we should?  I love Tom Hanks' work from the goofy lovable "Big" to the adventuresome "Castaway" to the much more serious "The Post", but I don't look to actors to be on the forefront of social change.  If they are, great.  But that's not their first job.  It's like when Neil Young was asked if things like fighting global warming and supporting Native American rights were his biggest goals he said something like, "Those are things I'm very passionate about, but my biggest job is to make music". 

no it isnt. these stories suggested by that writer are equally compelling and truer to historical realities than the narrow lens used by hollywood at present. it seems to me thats all he is asking for. that those with the clout, power and ability to elevate one type of story over another should be more equitable in the stories they are a part of making.

if nothing else, put money behind black film makers, writers etc to expose us to a fuller picture of being human in America and elsewhere.

and Neil in many cases puts forward those causes he is passionate about WHILE doing his "biggest job"

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I think you missed the point Deggans was trying to make, entirely, and reached the same conclusion Fox News wants to try and lead viewers to.
Deggans is not saying Hanks (or other people he mentions) are racists.  In fact, he comes right out and says that in his piece.
Did you happen to read that?
I'm sure he would not say anything about the stories you shared support that you are actually racist yourself, despite being white. 
CRT isn't about trying to tell people they are racists because they are white.


On a funny note....weren't you a supporter of the Math Candidate?

80+25+5 would give you 110%

OH fuck math! 

(Actually, what MATH is is M.A.T.H., "Make America Think Harder".  I'm good at basic math, but don't think so clearly at 2 AM!)

OK, I see what you are saying.  But what I seem to get from Deggans is that he thinks a white male such as myself needs to somehow confess that I am personally responsible for the continuation of racism.  That's a heavy fucking burden if and there are white males out there who feel that way, I feel badly for them.  But for myself, I don't see it.  I'm not going to take on responsibility for something I didn't create or sustain, and I don't feel the need to justify that statement.  In a court of law, I suppose I could.  But I judge myself pretty hard as it it, so I don't need to do that here.  I will say that I think a lot of this is another example off over-the-top political correctness.  To people like Deggans, I would suggest they call out the real fucking racists (of which there are many in America) and stop putting the blame on those of us who get it and try to do as what we can to end racism.  Blaming those who understand the situation and try to make a difference is bullshit.  That's my take, anyway.

Let me suggest rereading his article Brian. I didnt get that from the article at all. It was a call to action from him to Hanks. Simply put, as a teller of history in his profession, Hanks should include a fuller picture of that history in his future projects, than the average white guy hero stories Hanks can play so well.

But isn't this expecting more from an entertainer than we should?  I love Tom Hanks' work from the goofy lovable "Big" to the adventuresome "Castaway" to the much more serious "The Post", but I don't look to actors to be on the forefront of social change.  If they are, great.  But that's not their first job.  It's like when Neil Young was asked if things like fighting global warming and supporting Native American rights were his biggest goals he said something like, "Those are things I'm very passionate about, but my biggest job is to make music". 

no it isnt. these stories suggested by that writer are equally compelling and truer to historical realities than the narrow lens used by hollywood at present. it seems to me thats all he is asking for. that those with the clout, power and ability to elevate one type of story over another should be more equitable in the stories they are a part of making.

if nothing else, put money behind black film makers, writers etc to expose us to a fuller picture of being human in America and elsewhere.

and Neil in many cases puts forward those causes he is passionate about WHILE doing his "biggest job"

Well, that's fair enough although I don't know how much control actors- even big name people- have over writers and producers and such.

In any case, for me looking to entertainers for solutions to social issues is not much my thing these day (and I use to be a big advocate for that).  I think in some ways it can detract because it puts the focus on people for whom that is not their specialty.  I'd rather listen to what Dr. Cornell West has to say about race than (much as I'm a fan) Tom Hanks.

tempo_n_groove

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I think you missed the point Deggans was trying to make, entirely, and reached the same conclusion Fox News wants to try and lead viewers to.
Deggans is not saying Hanks (or other people he mentions) are racists.  In fact, he comes right out and says that in his piece.
Did you happen to read that?
I'm sure he would not say anything about the stories you shared support that you are actually racist yourself, despite being white. 
CRT isn't about trying to tell people they are racists because they are white.


On a funny note....weren't you a supporter of the Math Candidate?

80+25+5 would give you 110%

OH fuck math! 

(Actually, what MATH is is M.A.T.H., "Make America Think Harder".  I'm good at basic math, but don't think so clearly at 2 AM!)

OK, I see what you are saying.  But what I seem to get from Deggans is that he thinks a white male such as myself needs to somehow confess that I am personally responsible for the continuation of racism.  That's a heavy fucking burden if and there are white males out there who feel that way, I feel badly for them.  But for myself, I don't see it.  I'm not going to take on responsibility for something I didn't create or sustain, and I don't feel the need to justify that statement.  In a court of law, I suppose I could.  But I judge myself pretty hard as it it, so I don't need to do that here.  I will say that I think a lot of this is another example off over-the-top political correctness.  To people like Deggans, I would suggest they call out the real fucking racists (of which there are many in America) and stop putting the blame on those of us who get it and try to do as what we can to end racism.  Blaming those who understand the situation and try to make a difference is bullshit.  That's my take, anyway.

Let me suggest rereading his article Brian. I didnt get that from the article at all. It was a call to action from him to Hanks. Simply put, as a teller of history in his profession, Hanks should include a fuller picture of that history in his future projects, than the average white guy hero stories Hanks can play so well.

But isn't this expecting more from an entertainer than we should?  I love Tom Hanks' work from the goofy lovable "Big" to the adventuresome "Castaway" to the much more serious "The Post", but I don't look to actors to be on the forefront of social change.  If they are, great.  But that's not their first job.  It's like when Neil Young was asked if things like fighting global warming and supporting Native American rights were his biggest goals he said something like, "Those are things I'm very passionate about, but my biggest job is to make music". 

no it isnt. these stories suggested by that writer are equally compelling and truer to historical realities than the narrow lens used by hollywood at present. it seems to me thats all he is asking for. that those with the clout, power and ability to elevate one type of story over another should be more equitable in the stories they are a part of making.

if nothing else, put money behind black film makers, writers etc to expose us to a fuller picture of being human in America and elsewhere.

and Neil in many cases puts forward those causes he is passionate about WHILE doing his "biggest job"

Support Tyler Perry for film and TV.  He has single handedly done more for the Black community in regards to both film and TV than anyone else I can remember.  

He walks it like he talks it and I enjoy his work

CM189191

Meltdown99 said:

I’m not sure if this is the spot to discuss this, but here I go…how do you eliminate systemic racism?  Recently an Inuit Member of  Parliament decided not to run again because she was often a victim of systemic racism in Parliament?  I work at a school board in the 4th most diverse city in Canada…it’s a pretty damn white school board…certainly not a reflection of the schools population?  

oftenreading

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?

What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?

Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 

I would agree that in North America race weighs much in many things but I would never say everything.  First of all, that's not a provable notion and I think it's best to be able to substantiate any statement made regarding such an important issue. And secondly, if you go about trying to educate white America about race and tell people something like that, you'll do as much to lead as many people to dig their heels in further in their racist views as you will to change minds.  I would take a firm approach to race education, but one perhaps for tactful.

I am not going about trying to educate white America about race. I'm not trying to educate anyone about anything, I'm stating my opinion, and my opinion is that issues somehow related to race have a far wider reach and impact than white North Americans ever consider.

And fuck tactfulness; that sounds like just another version of "go slow, be patient, it'll change", which people of colour have heard for decade upon decade. 

Fine, fuck tactfulness.  I can understand that notion.  But if you think I am suggesting "go slow, be patient, it'll change" you know less about my way of thinking than I would have supposed.  Perhaps there is a better work I could have use than "tact".  But somehow I think you would have slammed whatever I would have said anyway.  Seems to be your M.O. these days.

Wait, so now I argue with people not just about what they said, but what they didn't say but maybe thought about saying?

Sounds exhausting  

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I'm surprised there isn't more talk about this from the AMT?

What? Teaching about racism? I put institutional racism deniers right up there with holocaust deniers. How about you?

Couldn't agree with you more.  I do not agree that race should be pointed out in everything though.

I think the average white person in North America would be surprised how much race weighs in to pretty much everything, in some way. 

I would agree that in North America race weighs much in many things but I would never say everything.  First of all, that's not a provable notion and I think it's best to be able to substantiate any statement made regarding such an important issue. And secondly, if you go about trying to educate white America about race and tell people something like that, you'll do as much to lead as many people to dig their heels in further in their racist views as you will to change minds.  I would take a firm approach to race education, but one perhaps for tactful.

I am not going about trying to educate white America about race. I'm not trying to educate anyone about anything, I'm stating my opinion, and my opinion is that issues somehow related to race have a far wider reach and impact than white North Americans ever consider.

And fuck tactfulness; that sounds like just another version of "go slow, be patient, it'll change", which people of colour have heard for decade upon decade. 

Fine, fuck tactfulness.  I can understand that notion.  But if you think I am suggesting "go slow, be patient, it'll change" you know less about my way of thinking than I would have supposed.  Perhaps there is a better work I could have use than "tact".  But somehow I think you would have slammed whatever I would have said anyway.  Seems to be your M.O. these days.

Wait, so now I argue with people not just about what they said, but what they didn't say but maybe thought about saying?

Sounds exhausting  

Lets just discuss and not argue. 

dankind

Bentleyspop

https://twitter.com/OhNoSheTwitnt/status/1406955039428648960?s=19

tempo_n_groove

Bentleyspop said:

https://twitter.com/OhNoSheTwitnt/status/1406955039428648960?s=19

We should be doing both and doing a poor job at it.