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Critical Race Theory

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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,160
    edited July 8
    Parksy said:
    I went to catholic school.  You can imagine my surprise when I began learning about the real world in my late teens / early twenties. :) 

    I'm Canadian. I have no idea what CRT is.  My guess is... it's a proposed plan to teach kids about race history and bigotry/prejudice in american history.  I'm all for it. But I don't think USA is anywhere near ready for it.   I think it should start early.  Mainstream media seems hell bent on brainwashing people. Whether it's CNN or Fox News...  News isn't news. Facts are distorted.  If we can teach young people early on to not buy the garbage they're being fed on TV or on their phones, we'll all be better off for it. 

    What gets fascinating and distorted about learning in school is creating a culture of what is good and what is bad.  What is right and what is wrong.  What is true and what is false.  Sounds pretty easy, but in the USA especially, the line between right and wrong has never been more blurry. What kids are going to be learning in school is going to be fought by their parents and politicians... which I think is what's happening with this CRT stuff. 

    I can only imagine being an American kid....   learning history in high school....  about the civil war....  in a building named after Robert E. Lee.  My goodness gracious.  Critical Race Theory?!?  (PLAYOFFS?! You're talking about PLAYOFFS?!)  Talk about confusion and sending mixed signals.  

    Someone pointed out earlier that teachers shouldn't be activists.  I agree. They shouldn't be racists either. Much like cops, because they're human, you're always going to get the good with the bad. Some will be overly left, some will be overly right. Hopefully there is a way to weed that out. 

    Here in Canada I learned about Residential Schools from a rock star.  That's just sad. It should have been taught and explained in school. Bottom line though .. in Canada and in USA I think, education is run by government...  and the government sucks dicks. 

    I think the focus on schooling and education should always be about truth and perspective... especially history. Our historical figures are always glorified for the good they do, never criticized for the bad.  There is nothing.. nothing wrong with learning everything.  Hiding or masking anything from history for whatever reason... especially pride, or embarrassment is dead wrong. But again, this is 2021 and if we as a people don't start getting our act in gear, you can forget about Critical Race Theory.  The rate of dumbasses getting clout, popularity, and prominence is growing and growing (Donald Trump was prez for 4 years..... and still thinks he is.... as do like millions of you Americans)  Up could soon become down.  Blue could become green.  The rifts in the Divided States of America are growing bigger and bigger. 

    I also had the great misfortune to attend Catholic School, for a number of years.

    While CRT is an American term and approach I would think that, globally, we would do well as a people to teach truth to our children.  This avoidance/masking is not a distinctly American problem.

    Writing as an American, I do believe that teaching our children what is real is the only potential way we have to get clear of the idiocracy.   A friend shared something with me yesterday that his town actually distributed to their citizens which was totally ignorant of the true history of this country.  He felt it was done with malice -- I assumed it was done through ignorance.  Either way, we should not be perpetuating the bullshit that we are, here, in the USA, in 2021. 
    I must have been lucky in that I had teachers tell us about the ugly truths so when I learned more it wasn't so such a shock.

    I'd love to pick up a textbook and see what is actually in them.
    I remember a lot of the same. We learned about slavery (even watched Roots in 8th grade, it was funny when OJ had his cameo because that was during the trial). Trail of Tears and general treatment of Natives, voting history of blacks and women, witch trials, segregation, Treatment of Chinese immigrants, etc. We didn’t cover everything, like the 1921 massacre, but US history in school was far from peaches ‘n cream. Maybe they could have gone in more detail, but I don’t view it as masking our history. It was pretty ugly.
    They already have to skip a lot, each new topic means they to skip something else like the crash of ‘29, Watergate, the Titanic. They probably already do. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,687
    mace1229 said:
    Parksy said:
    I went to catholic school.  You can imagine my surprise when I began learning about the real world in my late teens / early twenties. :) 

    I'm Canadian. I have no idea what CRT is.  My guess is... it's a proposed plan to teach kids about race history and bigotry/prejudice in american history.  I'm all for it. But I don't think USA is anywhere near ready for it.   I think it should start early.  Mainstream media seems hell bent on brainwashing people. Whether it's CNN or Fox News...  News isn't news. Facts are distorted.  If we can teach young people early on to not buy the garbage they're being fed on TV or on their phones, we'll all be better off for it. 

    What gets fascinating and distorted about learning in school is creating a culture of what is good and what is bad.  What is right and what is wrong.  What is true and what is false.  Sounds pretty easy, but in the USA especially, the line between right and wrong has never been more blurry. What kids are going to be learning in school is going to be fought by their parents and politicians... which I think is what's happening with this CRT stuff. 

    I can only imagine being an American kid....   learning history in high school....  about the civil war....  in a building named after Robert E. Lee.  My goodness gracious.  Critical Race Theory?!?  (PLAYOFFS?! You're talking about PLAYOFFS?!)  Talk about confusion and sending mixed signals.  

    Someone pointed out earlier that teachers shouldn't be activists.  I agree. They shouldn't be racists either. Much like cops, because they're human, you're always going to get the good with the bad. Some will be overly left, some will be overly right. Hopefully there is a way to weed that out. 

    Here in Canada I learned about Residential Schools from a rock star.  That's just sad. It should have been taught and explained in school. Bottom line though .. in Canada and in USA I think, education is run by government...  and the government sucks dicks. 

    I think the focus on schooling and education should always be about truth and perspective... especially history. Our historical figures are always glorified for the good they do, never criticized for the bad.  There is nothing.. nothing wrong with learning everything.  Hiding or masking anything from history for whatever reason... especially pride, or embarrassment is dead wrong. But again, this is 2021 and if we as a people don't start getting our act in gear, you can forget about Critical Race Theory.  The rate of dumbasses getting clout, popularity, and prominence is growing and growing (Donald Trump was prez for 4 years..... and still thinks he is.... as do like millions of you Americans)  Up could soon become down.  Blue could become green.  The rifts in the Divided States of America are growing bigger and bigger. 

    I also had the great misfortune to attend Catholic School, for a number of years.

    While CRT is an American term and approach I would think that, globally, we would do well as a people to teach truth to our children.  This avoidance/masking is not a distinctly American problem.

    Writing as an American, I do believe that teaching our children what is real is the only potential way we have to get clear of the idiocracy.   A friend shared something with me yesterday that his town actually distributed to their citizens which was totally ignorant of the true history of this country.  He felt it was done with malice -- I assumed it was done through ignorance.  Either way, we should not be perpetuating the bullshit that we are, here, in the USA, in 2021. 
    I must have been lucky in that I had teachers tell us about the ugly truths so when I learned more it wasn't so such a shock.

    I'd love to pick up a textbook and see what is actually in them.
    I remember a lot of the same. We learned about slavery (even watched Roots in 8th grade, it was funny when OJ had his cameo because that was during the trial). Trail of Tears and general treatment of Natives, voting history of blacks and women, witch trials, segregation, Treatment of Chinese immigrants, etc. We didn’t cover everything, like the 1921 massacre, but US history in school was far from peaches ‘n cream. Maybe they could have gone in more detail, but I don’t view it as masking our history. It was pretty ugly.
    They already have to skip a lot, each new topic means they to skip something else like the crash of ‘29, Watergate, the Titanic. They probably already do. 
    So you learned the same as I did.  Are they not teaching this anymore?

    I'm wondering what the disconnect actually is.

    I do know that kids get free passes on things nowadays but that doesn't have anything to do with CRT.

    Any teacher out there want to speak about what is being taught?
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 40,189
    mace1229 said:
    Parksy said:
    I went to catholic school.  You can imagine my surprise when I began learning about the real world in my late teens / early twenties. :) 

    I'm Canadian. I have no idea what CRT is.  My guess is... it's a proposed plan to teach kids about race history and bigotry/prejudice in american history.  I'm all for it. But I don't think USA is anywhere near ready for it.   I think it should start early.  Mainstream media seems hell bent on brainwashing people. Whether it's CNN or Fox News...  News isn't news. Facts are distorted.  If we can teach young people early on to not buy the garbage they're being fed on TV or on their phones, we'll all be better off for it. 

    What gets fascinating and distorted about learning in school is creating a culture of what is good and what is bad.  What is right and what is wrong.  What is true and what is false.  Sounds pretty easy, but in the USA especially, the line between right and wrong has never been more blurry. What kids are going to be learning in school is going to be fought by their parents and politicians... which I think is what's happening with this CRT stuff. 

    I can only imagine being an American kid....   learning history in high school....  about the civil war....  in a building named after Robert E. Lee.  My goodness gracious.  Critical Race Theory?!?  (PLAYOFFS?! You're talking about PLAYOFFS?!)  Talk about confusion and sending mixed signals.  

    Someone pointed out earlier that teachers shouldn't be activists.  I agree. They shouldn't be racists either. Much like cops, because they're human, you're always going to get the good with the bad. Some will be overly left, some will be overly right. Hopefully there is a way to weed that out. 

    Here in Canada I learned about Residential Schools from a rock star.  That's just sad. It should have been taught and explained in school. Bottom line though .. in Canada and in USA I think, education is run by government...  and the government sucks dicks. 

    I think the focus on schooling and education should always be about truth and perspective... especially history. Our historical figures are always glorified for the good they do, never criticized for the bad.  There is nothing.. nothing wrong with learning everything.  Hiding or masking anything from history for whatever reason... especially pride, or embarrassment is dead wrong. But again, this is 2021 and if we as a people don't start getting our act in gear, you can forget about Critical Race Theory.  The rate of dumbasses getting clout, popularity, and prominence is growing and growing (Donald Trump was prez for 4 years..... and still thinks he is.... as do like millions of you Americans)  Up could soon become down.  Blue could become green.  The rifts in the Divided States of America are growing bigger and bigger. 

    I also had the great misfortune to attend Catholic School, for a number of years.

    While CRT is an American term and approach I would think that, globally, we would do well as a people to teach truth to our children.  This avoidance/masking is not a distinctly American problem.

    Writing as an American, I do believe that teaching our children what is real is the only potential way we have to get clear of the idiocracy.   A friend shared something with me yesterday that his town actually distributed to their citizens which was totally ignorant of the true history of this country.  He felt it was done with malice -- I assumed it was done through ignorance.  Either way, we should not be perpetuating the bullshit that we are, here, in the USA, in 2021. 
    I must have been lucky in that I had teachers tell us about the ugly truths so when I learned more it wasn't so such a shock.

    I'd love to pick up a textbook and see what is actually in them.
    I remember a lot of the same. We learned about slavery (even watched Roots in 8th grade, it was funny when OJ had his cameo because that was during the trial). Trail of Tears and general treatment of Natives, voting history of blacks and women, witch trials, segregation, Treatment of Chinese immigrants, etc. We didn’t cover everything, like the 1921 massacre, but US history in school was far from peaches ‘n cream. Maybe they could have gone in more detail, but I don’t view it as masking our history. It was pretty ugly.
    They already have to skip a lot, each new topic means they to skip something else like the crash of ‘29, Watergate, the Titanic. They probably already do. 
    So you learned the same as I did.  Are they not teaching this anymore?

    I'm wondering what the disconnect actually is.

    I do know that kids get free passes on things nowadays but that doesn't have anything to do with CRT.

    Any teacher out there want to speak about what is being taught?
    I don't think any of that has changed. CRT is the right's new bogeyman and they're going to use that as an excuse to ensure history becomes more "peaches and cream." Isn't Texas trying to make new laws discouraging teaching about certain things? Fascism is coming, folks. 

    The head of a teachers union was on Cuomo's show last night. I encourage you to seek out that clip. She's a social studies teacher and really explained everything well.

    Also, my wife was an elementary school teacher who is now in an administrative position but she's a secretary (or some other title, I'm not sure of) in the union here and she doesn't even know what CRT is. It's not something that is being implemented like Fox would have you believe. These far right wacko's have moved on from "defunding the police" since Biden is for funding the police and the country's liberal bastion of NYC just elected a former police chief so now they're all in on this nonsense and restricting voting access etc...

    I wish more people paid attention to this kind of stuff during non election cycles. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 25,337
    edited July 9
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  A teacher this year received a complaint because a parent thought he spent too much time on lynchings.  Like what in the actual fuck. It happened here in the USA, own it. 
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,687
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,687
    mace1229 said:
    Parksy said:
    I went to catholic school.  You can imagine my surprise when I began learning about the real world in my late teens / early twenties. :) 

    I'm Canadian. I have no idea what CRT is.  My guess is... it's a proposed plan to teach kids about race history and bigotry/prejudice in american history.  I'm all for it. But I don't think USA is anywhere near ready for it.   I think it should start early.  Mainstream media seems hell bent on brainwashing people. Whether it's CNN or Fox News...  News isn't news. Facts are distorted.  If we can teach young people early on to not buy the garbage they're being fed on TV or on their phones, we'll all be better off for it. 

    What gets fascinating and distorted about learning in school is creating a culture of what is good and what is bad.  What is right and what is wrong.  What is true and what is false.  Sounds pretty easy, but in the USA especially, the line between right and wrong has never been more blurry. What kids are going to be learning in school is going to be fought by their parents and politicians... which I think is what's happening with this CRT stuff. 

    I can only imagine being an American kid....   learning history in high school....  about the civil war....  in a building named after Robert E. Lee.  My goodness gracious.  Critical Race Theory?!?  (PLAYOFFS?! You're talking about PLAYOFFS?!)  Talk about confusion and sending mixed signals.  

    Someone pointed out earlier that teachers shouldn't be activists.  I agree. They shouldn't be racists either. Much like cops, because they're human, you're always going to get the good with the bad. Some will be overly left, some will be overly right. Hopefully there is a way to weed that out. 

    Here in Canada I learned about Residential Schools from a rock star.  That's just sad. It should have been taught and explained in school. Bottom line though .. in Canada and in USA I think, education is run by government...  and the government sucks dicks. 

    I think the focus on schooling and education should always be about truth and perspective... especially history. Our historical figures are always glorified for the good they do, never criticized for the bad.  There is nothing.. nothing wrong with learning everything.  Hiding or masking anything from history for whatever reason... especially pride, or embarrassment is dead wrong. But again, this is 2021 and if we as a people don't start getting our act in gear, you can forget about Critical Race Theory.  The rate of dumbasses getting clout, popularity, and prominence is growing and growing (Donald Trump was prez for 4 years..... and still thinks he is.... as do like millions of you Americans)  Up could soon become down.  Blue could become green.  The rifts in the Divided States of America are growing bigger and bigger. 

    I also had the great misfortune to attend Catholic School, for a number of years.

    While CRT is an American term and approach I would think that, globally, we would do well as a people to teach truth to our children.  This avoidance/masking is not a distinctly American problem.

    Writing as an American, I do believe that teaching our children what is real is the only potential way we have to get clear of the idiocracy.   A friend shared something with me yesterday that his town actually distributed to their citizens which was totally ignorant of the true history of this country.  He felt it was done with malice -- I assumed it was done through ignorance.  Either way, we should not be perpetuating the bullshit that we are, here, in the USA, in 2021. 
    I must have been lucky in that I had teachers tell us about the ugly truths so when I learned more it wasn't so such a shock.

    I'd love to pick up a textbook and see what is actually in them.
    I remember a lot of the same. We learned about slavery (even watched Roots in 8th grade, it was funny when OJ had his cameo because that was during the trial). Trail of Tears and general treatment of Natives, voting history of blacks and women, witch trials, segregation, Treatment of Chinese immigrants, etc. We didn’t cover everything, like the 1921 massacre, but US history in school was far from peaches ‘n cream. Maybe they could have gone in more detail, but I don’t view it as masking our history. It was pretty ugly.
    They already have to skip a lot, each new topic means they to skip something else like the crash of ‘29, Watergate, the Titanic. They probably already do. 
    So you learned the same as I did.  Are they not teaching this anymore?

    I'm wondering what the disconnect actually is.

    I do know that kids get free passes on things nowadays but that doesn't have anything to do with CRT.

    Any teacher out there want to speak about what is being taught?
    I don't think any of that has changed. CRT is the right's new bogeyman and they're going to use that as an excuse to ensure history becomes more "peaches and cream." Isn't Texas trying to make new laws discouraging teaching about certain things? Fascism is coming, folks. 

    The head of a teachers union was on Cuomo's show last night. I encourage you to seek out that clip. She's a social studies teacher and really explained everything well.

    Also, my wife was an elementary school teacher who is now in an administrative position but she's a secretary (or some other title, I'm not sure of) in the union here and she doesn't even know what CRT is. It's not something that is being implemented like Fox would have you believe. These far right wacko's have moved on from "defunding the police" since Biden is for funding the police and the country's liberal bastion of NYC just elected a former police chief so now they're all in on this nonsense and restricting voting access etc...

    I wish more people paid attention to this kind of stuff during non election cycles. 
    Thanks Juggs I will look for it.

    For the record I started this because I was unsure of what was actually being taught.  It has become clearer that a boogey man is amongst us like you said.

    Keep piling it on people!
  • HobbesHobbes Pacific NorthwestPosts: 5,000
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 25,337
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,687
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    This is what I am trying to find facts on.  That the truth was never actually being told.  Things like the first Thanksgiving was a real thing and Jim Crow laws never existed. 
  • HobbesHobbes Pacific NorthwestPosts: 5,000
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,687
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    How does one whitewash reconstruction?
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 40,189
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    I think that is what this is all about in certain red states....
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 25,337
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    Got ya. I only can speak for my colleagues in my school district but none of us held back on what happened.  History can be uncomfortable but you absolutely need to teach what actually occurred.  

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 40,189
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    I think states like Texas are aiming to get rid of even the whitewashed version though. Fox and their ilk are making people believe the things Gruff is teaching is actually part of CRT when it's not...
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,687
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    I think states like Texas are aiming to get rid of even the whitewashed version though. Fox and their ilk are making people believe the things Gruff is teaching is actually part of CRT when it's not...
    That's a nice angle to take on it by repubs.

    I'm not sure what power that gives them though?  It really is beyond me how erasing a part of history makes you more powerful.  I understand in war the winner gets to write history but not seeing how removing it does.  Is it trying to show that we had a more sunshine and rainbows coming of age as a country and that the Great Depression and the war against the Britts was our claim to fame?
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 18,154
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    Wait a minute. So you're telling me that the slaves -- or, I'm sorry; I think we're supposed to soften that to "workers" now as some American History textbooks have done recently -- weren't living it up on their plantations, throwing wild parties for their owners and toasting them until dawn? I recall some of my textbooks had illustrations depicting as much. 
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 25,337
    edited July 9
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    I always wanted to partner with a southern school district when teaching the American Civil War to see how differently it is taught. I do think the south wants to remove some
    Parts of our history.  
    Look no further than what happened at the Alamo a few days ago. I ll try to find the link but basically an author was going to give a presentation about how the Texans were breaking from Mexico in order to keep their slaves.  The Texas government got wind of it and canceled the event.  
    IMO the Civil War never ended. 
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,687
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    I always wanted to partner with a southern school district when teaching the American Civil War to see how differently it is taught. I do think the south wants to remove some
    Parts of our history.  
    Look no further than what happened at the Alamo a few days ago. I ll try to find the link but basically an author was going to give a presentation about how the Texans were breaking from Mexico in order to keep their slaves.  The Texas government got wind of it and canceled the event.  
    IMO the Civil War never ended. 
    That article was posted on here about the Alamo.  I did not know that the battle had slavery decisions to why it happened.  That was interesting.  I didn't learn about the Alamo in school so I thought it was always about Mexico trying to win back an area of land.
  • HobbesHobbes Pacific NorthwestPosts: 5,000
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    How does one whitewash reconstruction?
    Was Black Reconstruction in America by W.E.B. Du Bois part of your assigned curriculum? Mine neither.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,687
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    How does one whitewash reconstruction?
    Was Black Reconstruction in America by W.E.B. Du Bois part of your assigned curriculum? Mine neither.
    So we are cherry picking exact books that weren't taught now?  C'mon.  If it was taught right it doesn't matter a source that was left out.


  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 25,337
    edited July 9
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    How does one whitewash reconstruction?
    Was Black Reconstruction in America by W.E.B. Du Bois part of your assigned curriculum? Mine neither.
    Who cares if it was or wasn't .  I could see that book being used in a college setting but not k-12. 

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • HobbesHobbes Pacific NorthwestPosts: 5,000
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    How does one whitewash reconstruction?
    Was Black Reconstruction in America by W.E.B. Du Bois part of your assigned curriculum? Mine neither.
    So we are cherry picking exact books that weren't taught now?  C'mon.  If it was taught right it doesn't matter a source that was left out.


    It was an example. And our education was not taught right no matter how strongly you believe it was.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 40,189
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    I think states like Texas are aiming to get rid of even the whitewashed version though. Fox and their ilk are making people believe the things Gruff is teaching is actually part of CRT when it's not...
    That's a nice angle to take on it by repubs.

    I'm not sure what power that gives them though?  It really is beyond me how erasing a part of history makes you more powerful.  I understand in war the winner gets to write history but not seeing how removing it does.  Is it trying to show that we had a more sunshine and rainbows coming of age as a country and that the Great Depression and the war against the Britts was our claim to fame?
    It's to rile up their base so they come out and vote for them next year and in '24. Same thing with Desantis in Florida signing some bullshit executive order about making teachers register their political beliefs or some nonsense. 

    It is culture war nonsense on steroids. The republican party does not seem to stand for or care about much of anything else nowadays. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 5,776
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    I think states like Texas are aiming to get rid of even the whitewashed version though. Fox and their ilk are making people believe the things Gruff is teaching is actually part of CRT when it's not...
    That's a nice angle to take on it by repubs.

    I'm not sure what power that gives them though?  It really is beyond me how erasing a part of history makes you more powerful.  I understand in war the winner gets to write history but not seeing how removing it does.  Is it trying to show that we had a more sunshine and rainbows coming of age as a country and that the Great Depression and the war against the Britts was our claim to fame?
    It's to rile up their base so they come out and vote for them next year and in '24. Same thing with Desantis in Florida signing some bullshit executive order about making teachers register their political beliefs or some nonsense. 

    It is culture war nonsense on steroids. The republican party does not seem to stand for or care about much of anything else nowadays. 
    Yup, and as long as they can convince white America that they are the real victims, they'll be all set. 

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,310
    A long, interesting read. I just cut and pasted the opening paragraphs.

    Last spring, 155 years after the fall of Richmond, the Confederate capital surrendered again. In April 1865, the capitulation was swift and almost outlandishly theatrical: after learning that Robert E. Lee’s army had withdrawn from nearby Petersburg, the Confederate president, Jefferson Davis, and his military guard escaped south under cover of darkness, setting half the city on fire as they fled. Early the next morning, the first Union troops arrived. As Richmond’s black residents celebrated in the streets—joined by more than a few poor whites—the black soldiers at the head of the Union column worked to put out the flames. The embers of a regime dedicated to preserving African slavery were extinguished by hundreds of former slaves. The occupying forces then marched to Davis’s executive mansion and commandeered it as their headquarters.

    The second fall of Richmond was hardly kinder to the Confederate president. In June of last year, Davis’s eight-foot bronze likeness, which had presided over the city’s Monument Avenue for more than a century, was torn from its pedestal and dumped into the street—his face nullified with black paint, his overcoat spiked with pink and yellow, and his outstretched hand now reaching upward as if making a forlorn appeal to the heavens. In the weeks that followed, Stonewall Jackson, J.E.B. Stuart, and Matthew Maury, Davis’s bronze company on Monument Avenue—the so-called Champs-Élysées of the South—were likewise eliminated from view, but they at least enjoyed the honor of an official state removal. Davis, their chief, received no such courtesy: protesters tied ropes around his legs and dragged him to the ground with what news reports described as “a tiny sedan.”

    The conquest of Monument Avenue represented a key front in the renewed struggle for racial justice: the demand for a dramatic rethinking of U.S. history and its place in public life. Strikingly, the most powerful energy behind this fight comes not only from scholars but from activists, journalists, and other thinkers who have made history a new kind of political priority. Although American historical amnesia is the laziest of tropes—“We learn nothing,” said Gore Vidal, “because we remember nothing”—liberals today are more committed than ever to a passionate remembrance of things past. In recent years, a distinct pattern has emerged. Acts of horror—the killings of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown; the Charleston church massacre; the deadly Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia; the murder of George Floyd; the storming of the U.S. Capitol—are met not only with calls for justice but with demands for a more searching examination of history. Reading lists and syllabi are distributed; institutional commissions are tasked with extensive historical inquiries; professional historians appear regularly in op-ed pages, on television, and in social-media feeds.

    Every modern political movement makes some contact with history. Even in the United States, with our notoriously weak memory, progressive reformers have always invoked earlier struggles. Eugene Debs boasted that the Socialists of 1908 “are today where the abolitionists were in 1858”; Martin Luther King Jr. never tired of talking about the Declaration of Independence, a beacon of democratic equality whose light exposed how little of it the United States had so far attained. Yet the role of history today, especially within liberal discourse, has changed. Rather than mine the past for usable politics—whether as analogue, inspiration, or warning—thinkers now travel in the opposite direction, from present injustice to historical crime. Current American inequalities, many liberals insist, must be addressed through encounters with the past. Programs of reform or redistribution, no matter how ambitious, can hope to succeed only after the country undergoes a profound “reckoning”—to use the key word of the day—with centuries of racial oppression.


    Article continues Matthew Karp

     is an associate professor of history at Princeton University.


    [Essay] History As End, By Matthew Karp | Harper's Magazine (harpers.org)

    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,687
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    How does one whitewash reconstruction?
    Was Black Reconstruction in America by W.E.B. Du Bois part of your assigned curriculum? Mine neither.
    So we are cherry picking exact books that weren't taught now?  C'mon.  If it was taught right it doesn't matter a source that was left out.


    It was an example. And our education was not taught right no matter how strongly you believe it was.
    I'm sorry that your education wasn't like mine and you are apparently angry about it.  My apologies...
  • HobbesHobbes Pacific NorthwestPosts: 5,000
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    How does one whitewash reconstruction?
    Was Black Reconstruction in America by W.E.B. Du Bois part of your assigned curriculum? Mine neither.
    So we are cherry picking exact books that weren't taught now?  C'mon.  If it was taught right it doesn't matter a source that was left out.


    It was an example. And our education was not taught right no matter how strongly you believe it was.
    I'm sorry that your education wasn't like mine and you are apparently angry about it.  My apologies...
    You were taught CRT in school? Well versed with Du Bois, Fredrick Douglas, Sojourner Truth, and Antonio Gramsci? Derrick Bell and Kimberle Crenshaw? And I'm not angry in the way you may think. I am suggesting you/me/we be more critical of our education. You have claimed luck in receiving a more historically accurate education. I claim that even your education was whitewashed. As was mine. To purport otherwise is ignorant.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,687
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    How does one whitewash reconstruction?
    Was Black Reconstruction in America by W.E.B. Du Bois part of your assigned curriculum? Mine neither.
    So we are cherry picking exact books that weren't taught now?  C'mon.  If it was taught right it doesn't matter a source that was left out.


    It was an example. And our education was not taught right no matter how strongly you believe it was.
    I'm sorry that your education wasn't like mine and you are apparently angry about it.  My apologies...
    You were taught CRT in school? Well versed with Du Bois, Fredrick Douglas, Sojourner Truth, and Antonio Gramsci? Derrick Bell and Kimberle Crenshaw? And I'm not angry in the way you may think. I am suggesting you/me/we be more critical of our education. You have claimed luck in receiving a more historically accurate education. I claim that even your education was whitewashed. As was mine. To purport otherwise is ignorant.
    I'm ignorant then.  Thanks.  No point in arguing...
  • HobbesHobbes Pacific NorthwestPosts: 5,000
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    How does one whitewash reconstruction?
    Was Black Reconstruction in America by W.E.B. Du Bois part of your assigned curriculum? Mine neither.
    So we are cherry picking exact books that weren't taught now?  C'mon.  If it was taught right it doesn't matter a source that was left out.


    It was an example. And our education was not taught right no matter how strongly you believe it was.
    I'm sorry that your education wasn't like mine and you are apparently angry about it.  My apologies...
    You were taught CRT in school? Well versed with Du Bois, Fredrick Douglas, Sojourner Truth, and Antonio Gramsci? Derrick Bell and Kimberle Crenshaw? And I'm not angry in the way you may think. I am suggesting you/me/we be more critical of our education. You have claimed luck in receiving a more historically accurate education. I claim that even your education was whitewashed. As was mine. To purport otherwise is ignorant.
    I'm ignorant then.  Thanks.  No point in arguing...
    We are all ignorant. We have discussions to promote awareness and education. Not only on this forum but in our classrooms. Again, the whole point of introducing CRT as part of the curriculum. You started this thread for a reason, correct?
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 27,687
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Hobbes said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Taught 8th grade for sixteen years and every year I would teach reconstruction and the civil rights movement.  I wonder if some
    of these topics will be a thing of the past in some states.  
    You think that they will stop teaching what actually happened?  That is nuts and hope that isn't true.
    They've never taught what actually happened. That's the whole point of CRT.
    What do you mean they’ve never taught what actually happened?
    Whitewashed version. No discredit to you and your efforts to educate your students, but more than likely it was a whitewashed version.
    How does one whitewash reconstruction?
    Was Black Reconstruction in America by W.E.B. Du Bois part of your assigned curriculum? Mine neither.
    So we are cherry picking exact books that weren't taught now?  C'mon.  If it was taught right it doesn't matter a source that was left out.


    It was an example. And our education was not taught right no matter how strongly you believe it was.
    I'm sorry that your education wasn't like mine and you are apparently angry about it.  My apologies...
    You were taught CRT in school? Well versed with Du Bois, Fredrick Douglas, Sojourner Truth, and Antonio Gramsci? Derrick Bell and Kimberle Crenshaw? And I'm not angry in the way you may think. I am suggesting you/me/we be more critical of our education. You have claimed luck in receiving a more historically accurate education. I claim that even your education was whitewashed. As was mine. To purport otherwise is ignorant.
    I'm ignorant then.  Thanks.  No point in arguing...
    We are all ignorant. We have discussions to promote awareness and education. Not only on this forum but in our classrooms. Again, the whole point of introducing CRT as part of the curriculum. You started this thread for a reason, correct?
    I did.  Not so you can tell me that I wasn't taught anything pertaining to CRT.  That is ignorant.  I have said that I was fortunate enough to learn about the racism that existed throughout our history as a nation.  

    What I see is that I wasn't taught enough about it to your liking wheras people like Fredrick Douglas were taught to me.  We have a boulevard here in NY named after him.  Someone like Kimberle Crenshaw was not though.  She became popular after my HS years.

    Just because every name you mention wasn't taught to me doesn't mean that I wasn't taught about it.  I'm learning that I was taught about it more than I thought initially.

    It's impossible to make you happy is what I am seeing unless it's all and everything.  That is for a college course and not a HS class and that is not white washing.

    I see this back and forth between you and I as pointless...


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