I'm not actually sure what pushing back on TM does. The demand for tickets doesn't change. Artists trying to make more from their live shows (as recorded music doesn't make much money) isn't going away. Non TM ticketing agencies (the few that exist) also use platinum pricing.
If all the tickets sell, then fans got tickets?
I think the big thing over the last 50 years is how the demand for the live experience has constantly increased. Put all those tickets on sale the classic way. Low prices, all at once, no waiting rooms or verified fan, and people would just complain they sold out in 30 seconds.
Not much you can do when everyone tries to do the same thing at the same time. If the demand is so high it's causing TM servers to crash, I think that's pretty high demand. TM's used to be the least likely to go down from a traffic surge. When 10c tickets used to be sold directly from 10c, it took a mild breeze to bring the site to it's knees
This is the kind of complacent thinking that a lot of bands had when Pearl Jam were trying to fight TM. That is why we are where we are. They have everything locked down, from artists to venues to aftermarket sales. Our elected officials need to break up this monopoly, which will hopefully result in some lower pricing and innovation in thwarting bots and reducing site crashing.
Just because all the tickets sell does not mean they went to fans. They eventually do, but at a greatly marked up price. Things need to change.
1991- Hollywood Palladium, California with Temple of the Dog, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains -RIP Magazine Show Oct. 6th 1992- Lollapalooza, Irvine, California Nothing since then. I suck. 2016- Fenway Park, Boston - Both glorious nights 2022- Oakland Night 2
I'm not actually sure what pushing back on TM does. The demand for tickets doesn't change. Artists trying to make more from their live shows (as recorded music doesn't make much money) isn't going away. Non TM ticketing agencies (the few that exist) also use platinum pricing.
If all the tickets sell, then fans got tickets?
I think the big thing over the last 50 years is how the demand for the live experience has constantly increased. Put all those tickets on sale the classic way. Low prices, all at once, no waiting rooms or verified fan, and people would just complain they sold out in 30 seconds.
Not much you can do when everyone tries to do the same thing at the same time. If the demand is so high it's causing TM servers to crash, I think that's pretty high demand. TM's used to be the least likely to go down from a traffic surge. When 10c tickets used to be sold directly from 10c, it took a mild breeze to bring the site to it's knees
This is the kind of complacent thinking that a lot of bands had when Pearl Jam were trying to fight TM. That is why we are where we are. They have everything locked down, from artists to venues to aftermarket sales. Our elected officials need to break up this monopoly, which will hopefully result in some lower pricing and innovation in thwarting bots and reducing site crashing.
Just because all the tickets sell does not mean they went to fans. They eventually do, but at a greatly marked up price. Things need to change.
To be fair, Pearl Jam was only taking issues with the fees, not TM's other practices.
I stand by the point. Other than doing what PJ does for their tickets. Digital only, non-transferrable, can only sell for face on TM's portal, I'm not sure what can be done.
Both the old days of lining up and the early days of the internet were all first come, first serve. The demand for tickets got to the point that concerts would sell out in 30 seconds. Many of those got into the hands of fans (like me), and many ended up in hands of scalpers (and now looking it in hindsight, many of the tickets that ended up with scalpers weren't from the regular onsale, promoters would sell blocks of tickets directly to scalpers).
It's not that I don't think it could be improved, but I think there's only so much that can be done.
Either you lock up all the tickets so they aren't transferrable, so they can't be scalped ala Pearl Jam, or it's going to be a free for all. Many fans don't like the idea of making it challenging to dispose of unwanted tickets.
In regards to the demand. From what I read they sold 2 million tickets yesterday, the most ever sold. It's crazy. When demand is that high, it doesn't matter what system you use, people are going to miss out. It's like people didn't think people didn't miss out on shows under older systems.
I think verified fan does what it's supposed to do. TM runs an algorithm that tries to determine the chances someone will actually use the tickets they bought (ie not let brand new accounts buy them, or accounts with history of selling or transferring them). Plus not everyone gets into the queue at the same time, so it's random buy times.
I guess the question is, are fans as a whole willing to accept the Pearl Jam route of locking down the tickets to cut out scalpers. That would solve one problem. Not sure about what you do after that point. If you've cut out most of the scalpers, then no matter what system you use fans get the tickets. Depending on what system, different fans would get in.
I don't think things like platinum tickets are going away. Bands make more money using it from higher ticket prices, and TM makes more money because their fees are prorated (the higher the ticket cost, the higher fees they charge). It benefits everyone except fans (band, promoter, ticketmaster).
Those are my thoughts. It's pretty complicated. I don't think these problems are easily solved by eliminating TM (as some of the few remaining ticket agencies do similar things).
I guess the short version is, as long as tickets are transferrable, then tickets can be scalped, and people will try to scalp them.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Wow, my Swifty friend is ticked. Her ticket buddy got tickets, so she has one show, but she was locked out personally. Honestly, two tours ago Taylor let fans get ticket priority if they bought merch. The more money you spent on merch would push you into higher ticket priority brackets. Not a fan of that system.
Taylor Swift ticket trouble could drive political engagement
By BROOKE SCHULTZ
Today
Some of Taylor Swift’s fans want you to know three things: They’re not still 16, they have careers and resources and, right now, they’re angry. That’s a powerful political motivator, researchers say.
Ticketmaster apologized but the bad blood had already been sowed. And now fans — and politicians — have started acting on it.
U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez directed Swifties to where they could make U.S. Department of Justice complaints. Multiple state attorneys general — including in Pennsylvania and Tennessee, key states in Swift’s origin story — have announced investigations.
Stephanie Aly, a New York-based professional who has worked on community organizing for progressive politics, for years has thought mobilizing fandoms for social progress could be beneficial.
“Fandoms are natural organizers,” said the 33-year-old Swiftie. “If you find the right issues and you activate them and engage them then you can effect real change.”
In 2020, for instance, K-pop fans organized to back the Black Lives Matter movement and sought to inflate registration for a Donald Trump rally. Aly and Swifties from different industries — law, public relations, cybersecurity and more — have joined forces to create Vigilante Legal, a group targeting Ticketmaster by creating email templates to petition attorneys general and providing antitrust information. Thousands have expressed interest in helping or learning more.
“The level of anger that you’ve just seen in the country around this issue is astounding,” said Jean Sinzdak, associate director for the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University. “People are really sharing their feelings about that and building a movement about that online, which I really think is quite fascinating. It’s certainly an opportunity to engage people politically. Whether it lasts is hard to say, but it certainly feels like a real opportunity.”
In one way, said Sinzdak, this is giving Swift’s large following of younger people a direct line to seeing how policy takes shape. It’s also targeting a demographic that is seldom courted by politicians during election season.
“Nobody goes out and thinks, ‘Let’s target young women,’” said Gwen Nisbett, a University of North Texas professor who researches the intersection of political engagement and pop culture. “Be it about abortion or student loans, that age group is super mobilized and young women are super mobilized.”
Fan culture and community has boosted that tendency toward mobilization. Nisbett was studying parasocial relationships — when fans have strong one-way relationships with celebrities — in 2018, when the previously apolitical Swift posted an endorsement of Democratic candidates to social media. Nisbett found that while such posts may not determine fans' votes, they still led to the increased likelihood fans would look for more information about voting — and actually vote.
For the record: AP VoteCast, an extensive survey of the U.S. electorate, showed about a third of Tennessee voters in 2018 said they had a favorable opinion of Swift, and among them, a large majority — about 7 in 10 — backed Democrat Phil Bredesen in the Senate contest. That was in clear contrast to the roughly third of voters who had an unfavorable opinion of Swift and overwhelmingly backed Republican Marsha Blackburn.
For Swifties, the ire for Ticketmaster is not just about a ticket: “It’s the fact that you can’t participate in your community and your fandom and it’s part of your identity,” Nisbett said.
This isn’t even the first time a fandom or an artist has targeted Ticketmaster. Pearl Jam took aim at the company in 1994, although the Justice Department ultimately declined to bring a case. More recently, Bruce Springsteen fans were enraged over high ticket costs because of the platform’s dynamic pricing system.
“It’s not just about getting vengeance for Swifties. It’s not about getting an extra million Taylor Swift fans tickets, or all of us going to a secret session,” said Jordan Burger, 28, who is using his law background to help the cause. “It’s about fundamental equality. And when you have a monopolist like that, it’s just so representative of the class structure of a society where there isn’t equality anymore, there isn’t fairness.”
The sheer power and size of Swift’s fandom has spurred conversations about economic inequality, merely symbolized by Ticketmaster.
Aly noted that quite a few of the members of the group did get tickets; the issue is is bigger than Ticketmaster, she said.
“We’ve gotten some feedback that, ‘This is too big, let the government handle it.’ Have you seen the U.S. government? The government only functions when the people push it to and when the people demand that it function and the people are involved,” she said. “Even when something seems too big to fail or too powerful to fail, there are always enough of us to make a difference. Your involvement may be the thing that pushes it over the edge that forces the government to act.”
Aly says many grown-up Swifties have 10-15 years’ experience of being bullied for liking the singer — but what fans have in mind might be better than revenge.
“We have thick skin and nothing to lose, really,” Aly said.
___
Associated Press journalist Hannah Fingerhut contributed to this report from Washington. Brooke Schultz is a Harrisburg, Pennsylvania-based corps member for the Associated Press/Report for America Statehouse News Initiative. Report for America is a nonprofit national service program that places journalists in local newsrooms to report on undercovered issues.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
So they are re-releasing tickets to her already sold out show... C'mon. You think people are really that dumb? I'm hoping we do have a movement of new people to take on the promoters and ticketmaster.
Notice there was no print run for the upcoming Swift RSD release listed on the RSD website. After some digging around it turns out they are pressing 115,000 copies.
May explain the smaller print runs for the other releases
Post edited by jerparker20 on
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,703
Notice there was no print run for the upcoming Swift RSD release listed on the RSD website. After some digging around it turns out they are pressing 115,000 copies.
May explain the smaller print runs for the other releases
welp not fighting that crowd. will sift through leftovers
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I GOT A TICKET TO ONE OF HER STOCKHOLM CONCERTS NEXT SUMMER!
Never experienced having to register to have the chance to even get the chance to buy a ticket. I was not one of the lucky ones. But my friend was picked to have the chance to try to score tickets on release day. And she got me one shitty little ticket.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I GOT A TICKET TO ONE OF HER STOCKHOLM CONCERTS NEXT SUMMER!
Never experienced having to register to have the chance to even get the chance to buy a ticket. I was not one of the lucky ones. But my friend was picked to have the chance to try to score tickets on release day. And she got me one shitty little ticket.
Congrats! I went to the show in New Jersey and it is awesome!
I'm swimming in brownie points after getting my wife a Category A ticket for the last MCG gig in February. Never had as many as I do now! Was a total of 8 hours looking at screens refreshing in another monitor. I must say the Ticketek site did what it was supposed to. A lot of people in Australia and New Zealand were saying it was a shitshow but the thing didn't have any issues after the first hour and given there were millions on that very site it was always going to be a lottery. 390 AUD is bonkers for one ticket but hey she's only turning 40 once eh. Gig looks like a class one to be at.
Stars are suns to other people.
Wellington 1998 London 2007 Brisbane 2009 Stockholm 2012
Amsterdam 1 & 2 2014 EV Dublin 2017 Milan 2018 Padova 2018 Boston 2 2018
Does anyone know if tickets will be available on resale and if so, do we still need an access code? Really need tickets for any European show at this stage.
I'm swimming in brownie points after getting my wife a Category A ticket for the last MCG gig in February. Never had as many as I do now! Was a total of 8 hours looking at screens refreshing in another monitor. I must say the Ticketek site did what it was supposed to. A lot of people in Australia and New Zealand were saying it was a shitshow but the thing didn't have any issues after the first hour and given there were millions on that very site it was always going to be a lottery. 390 AUD is bonkers for one ticket but hey she's only turning 40 once eh. Gig looks like a class one to be at.
At least you did t have to sit thru Jamie Elliot pulling off another miracle at the G. This time it was at the AO. Jeez, this is getting old.
My daughter texted me asking to sign up for the registered fan drawing for the Indy shows. She has an account too, but she is trying to double her chances of getting a code and tickets. Of course being the cool dad I did it. It took about 10 minutes waiting in the queue just to register. Getting a code and tickets should be a breeze!
I remember seeing Taylor Swift at the Grammy pre-telecast awards when she was still a country artist.....she seemed very genuine when accepting her awards.
I once had the opportunity to witness Taylor Swift interacting with young fans in a situation where there were no cameras and no press. It wasn't a photo opportunity, and neither she nor her people publicized it afterwards. I couldn't get over how she managed to come across like she was as excited to meet these fans and as interested in them personally as they were excited and interested to meet her. She is just a remarkably kind, nice and thoughtful person. The looks on those kids' faces after interacting her is something I will never forget.
Well since I missed out seeing the Eras tour when it came through town hoping to win the lottery and get tickets to Toronto. I probably have better odds winning mega millions tonight.
Comments
Just because all the tickets sell does not mean they went to fans. They eventually do, but at a greatly marked up price. Things need to change.
1992- Lollapalooza, Irvine, California
Nothing since then. I suck.2016- Fenway Park, Boston - Both glorious nights
2022- Oakland Night 2
I stand by the point. Other than doing what PJ does for their tickets. Digital only, non-transferrable, can only sell for face on TM's portal, I'm not sure what can be done.
Both the old days of lining up and the early days of the internet were all first come, first serve. The demand for tickets got to the point that concerts would sell out in 30 seconds. Many of those got into the hands of fans (like me), and many ended up in hands of scalpers (and now looking it in hindsight, many of the tickets that ended up with scalpers weren't from the regular onsale, promoters would sell blocks of tickets directly to scalpers).
It's not that I don't think it could be improved, but I think there's only so much that can be done.
Either you lock up all the tickets so they aren't transferrable, so they can't be scalped ala Pearl Jam, or it's going to be a free for all. Many fans don't like the idea of making it challenging to dispose of unwanted tickets.
In regards to the demand. From what I read they sold 2 million tickets yesterday, the most ever sold. It's crazy. When demand is that high, it doesn't matter what system you use, people are going to miss out. It's like people didn't think people didn't miss out on shows under older systems.
I think verified fan does what it's supposed to do. TM runs an algorithm that tries to determine the chances someone will actually use the tickets they bought (ie not let brand new accounts buy them, or accounts with history of selling or transferring them). Plus not everyone gets into the queue at the same time, so it's random buy times.
I guess the question is, are fans as a whole willing to accept the Pearl Jam route of locking down the tickets to cut out scalpers. That would solve one problem. Not sure about what you do after that point. If you've cut out most of the scalpers, then no matter what system you use fans get the tickets. Depending on what system, different fans would get in.
I don't think things like platinum tickets are going away. Bands make more money using it from higher ticket prices, and TM makes more money because their fees are prorated (the higher the ticket cost, the higher fees they charge). It benefits everyone except fans (band, promoter, ticketmaster).
Those are my thoughts. It's pretty complicated. I don't think these problems are easily solved by eliminating TM (as some of the few remaining ticket agencies do similar things).
I guess the short version is, as long as tickets are transferrable, then tickets can be scalped, and people will try to scalp them.
1996; 9/28 New York
1997: 11/14 Oakland, 11/15 Oakland
1998: 7/5 Dallas, 7/7 Albuquerque, 7/8 Phoenix, 7/10 San Diego, 7/11 Las Vegas
2000: 10/17 Dallas
2003: 4/3 OKC
2012: 11/17 Tulsa(EV), 11/18 Tulsa(EV)
2013: 11/16 OKC
2014: 10/8 Tulsa
2022: 9/20 OKC
2023: 9/13 Ft Worth, 9/15 Ft Worth
Wow. Crazy, but I guess not a shock given is seems half of the population of the US are fans who would like to see a show.
www.headstonesband.com
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Edit: they removed it
1996; 9/28 New York
1997: 11/14 Oakland, 11/15 Oakland
1998: 7/5 Dallas, 7/7 Albuquerque, 7/8 Phoenix, 7/10 San Diego, 7/11 Las Vegas
2000: 10/17 Dallas
2003: 4/3 OKC
2012: 11/17 Tulsa(EV), 11/18 Tulsa(EV)
2013: 11/16 OKC
2014: 10/8 Tulsa
2022: 9/20 OKC
2023: 9/13 Ft Worth, 9/15 Ft Worth
Some of Taylor Swift’s fans want you to know three things: They’re not still 16, they have careers and resources and, right now, they’re angry. That’s a powerful political motivator, researchers say.
Look what Ticketmaster made them do.
It started Tuesday, when millions crowded a presale for Swift’s long-awaited Eras Tour, resulting in crashes, prolonged waits and frantic purchases. By Thursday, Ticketmaster had canceled the general sale, citing insufficient remaining tickets and inciting a firestorm of outrage from fans. Swift herself said the ordeal “really pisses her off.”
Ticketmaster apologized but the bad blood had already been sowed. And now fans — and politicians — have started acting on it.
U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez directed Swifties to where they could make U.S. Department of Justice complaints. Multiple state attorneys general — including in Pennsylvania and Tennessee, key states in Swift’s origin story — have announced investigations.
Stephanie Aly, a New York-based professional who has worked on community organizing for progressive politics, for years has thought mobilizing fandoms for social progress could be beneficial.
“Fandoms are natural organizers,” said the 33-year-old Swiftie. “If you find the right issues and you activate them and engage them then you can effect real change.”
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In 2020, for instance, K-pop fans organized to back the Black Lives Matter movement and sought to inflate registration for a Donald Trump rally. Aly and Swifties from different industries — law, public relations, cybersecurity and more — have joined forces to create Vigilante Legal, a group targeting Ticketmaster by creating email templates to petition attorneys general and providing antitrust information. Thousands have expressed interest in helping or learning more.
“The level of anger that you’ve just seen in the country around this issue is astounding,” said Jean Sinzdak, associate director for the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers University. “People are really sharing their feelings about that and building a movement about that online, which I really think is quite fascinating. It’s certainly an opportunity to engage people politically. Whether it lasts is hard to say, but it certainly feels like a real opportunity.”
In one way, said Sinzdak, this is giving Swift’s large following of younger people a direct line to seeing how policy takes shape. It’s also targeting a demographic that is seldom courted by politicians during election season.
“Nobody goes out and thinks, ‘Let’s target young women,’” said Gwen Nisbett, a University of North Texas professor who researches the intersection of political engagement and pop culture. “Be it about abortion or student loans, that age group is super mobilized and young women are super mobilized.”
Fan culture and community has boosted that tendency toward mobilization. Nisbett was studying parasocial relationships — when fans have strong one-way relationships with celebrities — in 2018, when the previously apolitical Swift posted an endorsement of Democratic candidates to social media. Nisbett found that while such posts may not determine fans' votes, they still led to the increased likelihood fans would look for more information about voting — and actually vote.
For the record: AP VoteCast, an extensive survey of the U.S. electorate, showed about a third of Tennessee voters in 2018 said they had a favorable opinion of Swift, and among them, a large majority — about 7 in 10 — backed Democrat Phil Bredesen in the Senate contest. That was in clear contrast to the roughly third of voters who had an unfavorable opinion of Swift and overwhelmingly backed Republican Marsha Blackburn.
For Swifties, the ire for Ticketmaster is not just about a ticket: “It’s the fact that you can’t participate in your community and your fandom and it’s part of your identity,” Nisbett said.
This isn’t even the first time a fandom or an artist has targeted Ticketmaster. Pearl Jam took aim at the company in 1994, although the Justice Department ultimately declined to bring a case. More recently, Bruce Springsteen fans were enraged over high ticket costs because of the platform’s dynamic pricing system.
“It’s not just about getting vengeance for Swifties. It’s not about getting an extra million Taylor Swift fans tickets, or all of us going to a secret session,” said Jordan Burger, 28, who is using his law background to help the cause. “It’s about fundamental equality. And when you have a monopolist like that, it’s just so representative of the class structure of a society where there isn’t equality anymore, there isn’t fairness.”
The sheer power and size of Swift’s fandom has spurred conversations about economic inequality, merely symbolized by Ticketmaster.
Aly noted that quite a few of the members of the group did get tickets; the issue is is bigger than Ticketmaster, she said.
“We’ve gotten some feedback that, ‘This is too big, let the government handle it.’ Have you seen the U.S. government? The government only functions when the people push it to and when the people demand that it function and the people are involved,” she said. “Even when something seems too big to fail or too powerful to fail, there are always enough of us to make a difference. Your involvement may be the thing that pushes it over the edge that forces the government to act.”
Aly says many grown-up Swifties have 10-15 years’ experience of being bullied for liking the singer — but what fans have in mind might be better than revenge.
“We have thick skin and nothing to lose, really,” Aly said.
___
Associated Press journalist Hannah Fingerhut contributed to this report from Washington. Brooke Schultz is a Harrisburg, Pennsylvania-based corps member for the Associated Press/Report for America Statehouse News Initiative. Report for America is a nonprofit national service program that places journalists in local newsrooms to report on undercovered issues.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
May explain the smaller print runs for the other releases
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Never experienced having to register to have the chance to even get the chance to buy a ticket. I was not one of the lucky ones. But my friend was picked to have the chance to try to score tickets on release day. And she got me one shitty little ticket.
Wellington 1998
London 2007
Brisbane 2009
Stockholm 2012
EV Dublin 2017
Milan 2018
Padova 2018
Boston 2 2018
But it's far up in bleachers, where I got vertigo watching Rolling Stones from. The bleachers are way to steep in the arena.
www.headstonesband.com
There are no kings inside the gates of eden