Cleveland Indians to drop "Indians" from team name after 105 years

F Me In The Brain

dankind said:

https://youtu.be/MrYVgxwyQ9s

You're welcome!

Didnt need to press play, this is the perfect clip. 

   

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

OnWis97

mcgruff10 said:

@OnWis97 what s the background on the Wild?  I honestly have no clue. Side note: I always loved the north stars uniforms.  

@mcgruff10
I think they fell prey to the need to be unique; i.e., you can't use a name anyone else has used. So it's a nod to the wilderness of Minnesota. It's not that we don't have said wilderness...lakes, rivers, prairies, animals, fishing, hunting, etc. It's that the name is just so, so stupid. I remember wondering how the heck they'd capture that in logo form...well, the absolutely nailed that in my opinion, but the name sucks.  The below NHL puff piece discusses some other name options. Blue Ox (a Paul Bunyan reference), White Bears (we have a White Bear Lake), Freeze (talk about uninspired), Northern Lights (better than Wild), and Voyageurs (at least in part after a national park of the same name).  Voyageurs is my favorite by a long shot.

https://www.nhl.com/wild/news/lets-go-white-bears/c-552722

And I grew up going to a couple of North Stars games a year. The NHL will never be to me what it was when I was a kid.

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

mrussel1

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

Can I gamble?  Maybe see a show?

Meltdown99

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

Can I gamble?  Maybe see a show?

I don’t know can you?  I’m not your fucking mom.  

mcgruff10

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

What reservations have you visited not counting a casino? What were your experiences there?  

Not too many reservations on the east coast that I can frequent regularly but I ve experienced reservations non casino in Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico.  

Meltdown99

I guess Indigenous peoples are not allowed to create revenue for their peoples?

HughFreakingDillon

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

I've been to several reserves. Actually, there are many very close to the cottage country I frequent (visitor, not owner). they are dumps. and not the fault of the residents at all. the stories you hear about the corruption of the chiefs is staggering. just one look at everyone's homes on a reserve and then look at the home of the chief. it's no different than comparing the home of an evangelical minister and their parishioners. it's disgusting. but that's what happens when you throw money at anyone, regardless of race or background: they become corrupt.   

hedonist

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

Can I gamble?  Maybe see a show?

I don’t know can you?  I’m not your fucking mom.  

Jesus, what crawled up your ass today?

mrussel1

Meltdown99 said:

I guess Indigenous peoples are not allowed to create revenue for their peoples?

By culturally approptiating our vices and exploiting us?  Seems wrong.

mrussel1

hedonist said:

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

Can I gamble?  Maybe see a show?

I don’t know can you?  I’m not your fucking mom.  

Jesus, what crawled up your ass today?

He's just mad because his favorite hockey team's nickname celebrates the taking if fertile land from the First Nation's people,  who were removed and told their gods were false.   

Meltdown99

hedonist said:

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

Can I gamble?  Maybe see a show?

I don’t know can you?  I’m not your fucking mom.  

Jesus, what crawled up your ass today?

He asked me a fucking question.  I answered.  What’s your problem?  

Meltdown99

mrussel1 said:

hedonist said:

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

Can I gamble?  Maybe see a show?

I don’t know can you?  I’m not your fucking mom.  

Jesus, what crawled up your ass today?

He's just mad because his favorite hockey team's nickname celebrates the taking if fertile land from the First Nation's people,  who were removed and told their gods were false.   

That doesn’t even make sense…but maybe it does.  Who knows.  Hehehehe…

mrussel1

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

hedonist said:

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

Can I gamble?  Maybe see a show?

I don’t know can you?  I’m not your fucking mom.  

Jesus, what crawled up your ass today?

He's just mad because his favorite hockey team's nickname celebrates the taking if fertile land from the First Nation's people,  who were removed and told their gods were false.   

That doesn’t even make sense…but maybe it does.  Who knows.  Hehehehe…

Oh it definitely makes sense.  

But I'm just fucking with you.  I don't care about their name. 

Meltdown99

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

I've been to several reserves. Actually, there are many very close to the cottage country I frequent (visitor, not owner). they are dumps. and not the fault of the residents at all. the stories you hear about the corruption of the chiefs is staggering. just one look at everyone's homes on a reserve and then look at the home of the chief. it's no different than comparing the home of an evangelical minister and their parishioners. it's disgusting. but that's what happens when you throw money at anyone, regardless of race or background: they become corrupt.   

There is 5 reserves near me.  2 are definitely rough, the 3 closet ones are not that bad…but the reserves around here are small.  Of course the reserves around here have lots of weed and smoke shacks, and that’s what they are is shacks…I agree, on many reserves the chiefs line their po keys.  I believe Canada spends around 30 billion on indigenous affairs.  I think we 1st need to get clean drinking water to all reserves and insure the northern reserves have food security and go from there.

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

AN good point about segregation/ integration of indigenous people.

As most of us surely must know, indigenous people were shoved off on to marginal lands.  The idea that they were "given" these lands is a joke.  They were herded off their homelands and forced into places few would want to live.  And these people were often nomadic tribes so that made it doubly fucked. 

But you all know this, right?  We could go into descriptions of what this means and how it happens but I really don't want to suppose that no one here is not aware of all that.  If anyone here doesn't know this history, I can only shake my head and say, "Please do some reading on it."

As for integration, one attempt was The Indian Relocation Act of 1956.  This was one fucking disastrous idea wherein Native American were "encouraged" to relocate to (or, often, dumped into) urban areas with the idea of them being assimilated into American society.  But really, that was just another face of genocide and culturcide.  Again, everybody here surely must know about this history, right?  If no, please read up. Simply Google "American Indian urban relocation" and start reading.  The disgrace of this act is evident and written about extensively. 

But again, you all know this, right?

As for reservations, yes, anyone here who thinks they know something about the history of and current conditions of Native Americans in North America and hasn't visited a reservation would do well to do so.  Yes, you can learn a lot about all this through reading- absolutely- but go and see for yourselves.  Seeing is believing.

As for casinos, I hate them, but I support the idea.  I hate it that indigenous people had to resort to doing these, but I totally get why they have and are.  Maybe some of us don't like the idea of these casinos and if we express that well, Meltdown said it well, "I guess Indigenous peoples are not allowed to create revenue for their peoples?"  You do what you have to do to survive.  Who among us has the right to criticize the casinos?  Not me.

And look, I'm not trying to be a know it all or chew anyone's ass.  It's a subject I care about and have studied, but I'm no professor here.  I just ask questions, say what I think, tell what I have found, and keep looking to learn more.  I we all are doing that. 

mickeyrat

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mcgruff10 said:

mrussel1 said:

mcgruff10 said:

bbiggs said:

mcgruff10 said:

brianlux said:

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.

Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name.  What is insulting about the Chiefs?

again, where does it end?

The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans.  And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?"  They really are similar words that way.  It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".

Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close. 

So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?

Padres…gots to go. 

Seriously where does it stop? Side note, I would
love to see a game in San Diego. 

I'm in SD right now, 5 min from the stadium.  Was going to go tonight to see the A's but my son feels like crap after eating two doubles from In n Out (who knew that was a bad idea?), so we're going Thursday against the Rockies.  It's a nice park. 

Two doubles?! Wow. Never been to San Diego, heard it is gorgeous.  Have fun!

Yeah, he's 19 and thinks he's invincible.  Idiot. 

Maybe call the front desk for some extra tp.  

apple didnt fall far.  ..

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???

I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 

But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.

The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.

Why is this?

My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 

I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.

Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.

AN good point about segregation/ integration of indigenous people.

As most of us surely must know, indigenous people were shoved off on to marginal lands.  The idea that they were "given" these lands is a joke.  They were herded off their homelands and forced into places few would want to live.  And these people were often nomadic tribes so that made it doubly fucked. 

But you all know this, right?  We could go into descriptions of what this means and how it happens but I really don't want to suppose that no one here is not aware of all that.  If anyone here doesn't know this history, I can only shake my head and say, "Please do some reading on it."

As for integration, one attempt was The Indian Relocation Act of 1956.  This was one fucking disastrous idea wherein Native American were "encouraged" to relocate to (or, often, dumped into) urban areas with the idea of them being assimilated into American society.  But really, that was just another face of genocide and culturcide.  Again, everybody here surely must know about this history, right?  If no, please read up. Simply Google "American Indian urban relocation" and start reading.  The disgrace of this act is evident and written about extensively. 

But again, you all know this, right?

As for reservations, yes, anyone here who thinks they know something about the history of and current conditions of Native Americans in North America and hasn't visited a reservation would do well to do so.  Yes, you can learn a lot about all this through reading- absolutely- but go and see for yourselves.  Seeing is believing.

As for casinos, I hate them, but I support the idea.  I hate it that indigenous people had to resort to doing these, but I totally get why they have and are.  Maybe some of us don't like the idea of these casinos and if we express that well, Meltdown said it well, "I guess Indigenous peoples are not allowed to create revenue for their peoples?"  You do what you have to do to survive.  Who among us has the right to criticize the casinos?  Not me.

And look, I'm not trying to be a know it all or chew anyone's ass.  It's a subject I care about and have studied, but I'm no professor here.  I just ask questions, say what I think, tell what I have found, and keep looking to learn more.  I we all are doing that. 

Being racist towards indigenous seems to be quite acceptable in our society...looks like it's acceptable here as well.  People crow about indigenous people's living off the taxpayer and then when they try to create economic opportunities and jobs for their people's also a problem...

Its ridiculous....

MayDay10

It comes down to a private business deciding to change their name.  It was their choice based on business.  

If I had it my way, I would just leave everything alone.  I loved the indians logo, grew up rooting for it.  I understand why they chose to change it, and it isnt the end of the universe.  If we go down the slippery slope and someone called the "guardians' get insulted, then they can change that name too if they want.

But the Indians were tired of fighting this, which has been going on for 15+ years and giving them bad press.  Im sure MLB put some pressure on them to get rid of Chief Wahoo and I believe they dangled the 2019 ASG as a condition.  


So after Wahoo was gone, you had a Cleveland "Indians" team who could not form an identity at all, and would likely never be able to.  When they announced Wahoo was gone, I was actually in support of changing the name because I knew that was next down the line, and also "Indians" with the drag Block C Cap logo was a terrible purgatory for branding.