Cleveland Indians to drop "Indians" from team name after 105 years

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  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,112
    OnWis97 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    @OnWis97 what s the background on the Wild?  I honestly have no clue. Side note: I always loved the north stars uniforms.  
    @mcgruff10
    I think they fell prey to the need to be unique; i.e., you can't use a name anyone else has used. So it's a nod to the wilderness of Minnesota. It's not that we don't have said wilderness...lakes, rivers, prairies, animals, fishing, hunting, etc. It's that the name is just so, so stupid. I remember wondering how the heck they'd capture that in logo form...well, the absolutely nailed that in my opinion, but the name sucks.  The below NHL puff piece discusses some other name options. Blue Ox (a Paul Bunyan reference), White Bears (we have a White Bear Lake), Freeze (talk about uninspired), Northern Lights (better than Wild), and Voyageurs (at least in part after a national park of the same name).  Voyageurs is my favorite by a long shot.

    https://www.nhl.com/wild/news/lets-go-white-bears/c-552722

    And I grew up going to a couple of North Stars games a year. The NHL will never be to me what it was when I was a kid.
    Great info, I never realized that it is a pretty stupid name.  Minnesota Freeze has a nice ring to it.  Thank you for sharing.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    mickeyrat said:
    hedonist said:
    “Cracker “ is such a silly term. All of them are, really. 

    its also cultural apropriation , being a black term for southern whites......
    Cracker was used way before Black folks picked it up. I believe the Brits may have coined it. 

    I was born and raised a Florida cracker. 
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    dankind said:
    mickeyrat said:
    hedonist said:
    “Cracker “ is such a silly term. All of them are, really. 

    its also cultural apropriation , being a black term for southern whites......
    Cracker was used way before Black folks picked it up. I believe the Brits may have coined it. 

    I was born and raised a Florida cracker. 
    Ritz-y. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    dankind said:
    mickeyrat said:
    hedonist said:
    “Cracker “ is such a silly term. All of them are, really. 

    its also cultural apropriation , being a black term for southern whites......
    Cracker was used way before Black folks picked it up. I believe the Brits may have coined it. 

    I was born and raised a Florida cracker. 
    I always thought it was for the white folk that moved livestock by cracking a whip. 
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    edited July 2021
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    mickeyrat said:
    hedonist said:
    “Cracker “ is such a silly term. All of them are, really. 

    its also cultural apropriation , being a black term for southern whites......
    Cracker was used way before Black folks picked it up. I believe the Brits may have coined it. 

    I was born and raised a Florida cracker. 
    I always thought it was for the white folk that moved livestock by cracking a whip. 
    Yes, if I recall correctly, I believe that’s the traditional Florida way. We only had five acres and never more than three dairy cows, so we never had to resort to such nonsense. We did have a whip, though, and it hung by the door like a Florida cracker wreath because I guess that’s what you did. 

    Edit: That’s one team name that would be perfect regionally but not so much elsewhere: the Florida Crackers. 

    But what would the mascot be? A face-eating zombie on bath salts?
    Post edited by dankind on
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    dankind said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    mickeyrat said:
    hedonist said:
    “Cracker “ is such a silly term. All of them are, really. 

    its also cultural apropriation , being a black term for southern whites......
    Cracker was used way before Black folks picked it up. I believe the Brits may have coined it. 

    I was born and raised a Florida cracker. 
    I always thought it was for the white folk that moved livestock by cracking a whip. 
    Yes, if I recall correctly, I believe that’s the traditional Florida way. We only had five acres and never more than three dairy cows, so we never had to resort to such nonsense. We did have a whip, though, and it hung by the door like a Florida cracker wreath because I guess that’s what you did. 

    Edit: That’s one team name that would be perfect regionally but not so much elsewhere: the Florida Crackers. 

    But what would the mascot be? A face-eating zombie on bath salts?
    Geez, were you in Ocala area or something? I always hated traveling through the center of the state. 
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    mickeyrat said:
    hedonist said:
    “Cracker “ is such a silly term. All of them are, really. 

    its also cultural apropriation , being a black term for southern whites......
    Cracker was used way before Black folks picked it up. I believe the Brits may have coined it. 

    I was born and raised a Florida cracker. 
    I always thought it was for the white folk that moved livestock by cracking a whip. 
    'livestock'?

    white slave foremen in the antebellum South were called "crackers" owing to their practice of "cracking the whip" to drive and punish slaves
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    edited July 2021
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    mickeyrat said:
    hedonist said:
    “Cracker “ is such a silly term. All of them are, really. 

    its also cultural apropriation , being a black term for southern whites......
    Cracker was used way before Black folks picked it up. I believe the Brits may have coined it. 

    I was born and raised a Florida cracker. 
    I always thought it was for the white folk that moved livestock by cracking a whip. 
    Yes, if I recall correctly, I believe that’s the traditional Florida way. We only had five acres and never more than three dairy cows, so we never had to resort to such nonsense. We did have a whip, though, and it hung by the door like a Florida cracker wreath because I guess that’s what you did. 

    Edit: That’s one team name that would be perfect regionally but not so much elsewhere: the Florida Crackers. 

    But what would the mascot be? A face-eating zombie on bath salts?
    Geez, were you in Ocala area or something? I always hated traveling through the center of the state. 
    The farm was in Manatee County. 

    And drag racing with your buddies through Ocala State Forest was a goddamn rite of passage when I was growing up. 
    Post edited by dankind on
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    mickeyrat said:
    hedonist said:
    “Cracker “ is such a silly term. All of them are, really. 

    its also cultural apropriation , being a black term for southern whites......
    It's a racial slur.

    If you dig into the word it originates from 17th century and it was never a word that was used politely.  It morphed over the years to be a belittling word to white people.

    If you ask most white people about the term I don't think you'd find many people take offense to it though?
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dankind said:
    mickeyrat said:
    hedonist said:
    “Cracker “ is such a silly term. All of them are, really. 

    its also cultural apropriation , being a black term for southern whites......
    Cracker was used way before Black folks picked it up. I believe the Brits may have coined it. 

    I was born and raised a Florida cracker. 
    I always thought it was for the white folk that moved livestock by cracking a whip. 
    Yes, if I recall correctly, I believe that’s the traditional Florida way. We only had five acres and never more than three dairy cows, so we never had to resort to such nonsense. We did have a whip, though, and it hung by the door like a Florida cracker wreath because I guess that’s what you did. 

    Edit: That’s one team name that would be perfect regionally but not so much elsewhere: the Florida Crackers. 

    But what would the mascot be? A face-eating zombie on bath salts?
    Geez, were you in Ocala area or something? I always hated traveling through the center of the state. 
    I lived out in Ocala for a year.  Horse country.  Everyone I met raised horses.
  • JeBurkhardt
    JeBurkhardt Posts: 5,321
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    hedonist said:
    “Cracker “ is such a silly term. All of them are, really. 

    its also cultural apropriation , being a black term for southern whites......
    It's a racial slur.

    If you dig into the word it originates from 17th century and it was never a word that was used politely.  It morphed over the years to be a belittling word to white people.

    If you ask most white people about the term I don't think you'd find many people take offense to it though?
    Some wear it like a badge of honor. 
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

    Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???



    I was thinking about this yesterday.  On some level, it's great to see a resurgent growing awareness of racial issues.  (I say "resurgent" because racism was a major topic back by a lot of activism in the 1960's and somewhat in the 70's but then it all seemed to die down a bit in the 80's and 90's and has resurfaced in recent years).  The issue of racism as regards to blacks/African Americans has been particularly paramount, with a lesser but somewhat pronounced emphasis toward Hispanics and Asians. 
    But through all of the ups and downs, and even through the most ardent periods of raised racial consciousness, the extreme issues of racism toward indigenous people of the Americas has always been low on the radar of concern over racism.  The only time that those concerns have received a more pronounced focus was during the 60's and early 70's when Native Americans forged strong movements under the American Indian Movement (also referred to as AIM).  A very good understanding of this movement and those times can be found in an excellent book I have previously mentions, Like a Hurricane; The Indian Movement From Alcatraz to Wounded Knee by Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior.  Another excellent work is Dennis Banks' Ojibwa Warrior; Dennis Banks and the Rise of the American Indian Movement.
    The question is, Why has the plight of these indigenous people been pushed into the background or even outright suppressed for all these years?  As terrible as have been the consequences of racism for black, Hispanics, and Asians, none have matched the utter devastation of the Native American/ First Nations peoples in terms of genocide, suppression of human rights, cultural destruction and/or cultural appropriation (yes, your team names!), loss of territory, and the utter humiliation and hatred heaped upon these people.
    Why is this?
    My conclusion is that we who are of European descent either know in our hearts that the annihilation of indigenous Americans was one of the most horrific acts in the history of humankind perpetrated by one group of people upon another, or are in denial about the severity of what transpired and still goes on today.  We cannot sweep this under the carpet.  Indigenous people in the Americas are still treated with the least respect, are still suppressed to the greatest degree, and are still the most held back by racial prejudice. 
    I think a lot of this is unconscious.  I would dare to say that some of the things that have been written in this thread point to the fact that awareness of the issues mentioned here are still greatly misunderstood by even so generally "liberal" a group as those of us who frequent this forum.  It's more than a little embarrassing and disheartening to see here some of the defenses offered for using Native American names and images for sports teams despite the overwhelming objections to that from American indigenous groups and tribes.
    Some of the comments here are ridiculous.  Comparing idiots in Green Bay wearing cheese on their heads to mocking indigenous peoples.  Dressing up and doing dances…wtf 

    Perhaps part of the problem is that indigenous peoples are not often seen in our communities.  They are the only people in our society that we still keep segregated?  But what do they do to be more integrated in society.  From my understanding the reserve system is partly in place so indigenous peoples have land of their own…indigenous peoples don’t believe in land ownership on a personal level…and we have stolen do much land from them and refuse to give them back land…

    i wonder how many people who even comment on here have ever been to a reserve.  Maybe some should visit?  You can do your dances for them…wear a feather.



    AN good point about segregation/ integration of indigenous people.
    As most of us surely must know, indigenous people were shoved off on to marginal lands.  The idea that they were "given" these lands is a joke.  They were herded off their homelands and forced into places few would want to live.  And these people were often nomadic tribes so that made it doubly fucked. 
    But you all know this, right?  We could go into descriptions of what this means and how it happens but I really don't want to suppose that no one here is not aware of all that.  If anyone here doesn't know this history, I can only shake my head and say, "Please do some reading on it."
    As for integration, one attempt was The Indian Relocation Act of 1956.  This was one fucking disastrous idea wherein Native American were "encouraged" to relocate to (or, often, dumped into) urban areas with the idea of them being assimilated into American society.  But really, that was just another face of genocide and culturcide.  Again, everybody here surely must know about this history, right?  If no, please read up. Simply Google "American Indian urban relocation" and start reading.  The disgrace of this act is evident and written about extensively. 
    But again, you all know this, right?
    As for reservations, yes, anyone here who thinks they know something about the history of and current conditions of Native Americans in North America and hasn't visited a reservation would do well to do so.  Yes, you can learn a lot about all this through reading- absolutely- but go and see for yourselves.  Seeing is believing.
    As for casinos, I hate them, but I support the idea.  I hate it that indigenous people had to resort to doing these, but I totally get why they have and are.  Maybe some of us don't like the idea of these casinos and if we express that well, Meltdown said it well, "I guess Indigenous peoples are not allowed to create revenue for their peoples?"  You do what you have to do to survive.  Who among us has the right to criticize the casinos?  Not me.

    And look, I'm not trying to be a know it all or chew anyone's ass.  It's a subject I care about and have studied, but I'm no professor here.  I just ask questions, say what I think, tell what I have found, and keep looking to learn more.  I we all are doing that. 




    Being racist towards indigenous seems to be quite acceptable in our society...looks like it's acceptable here as well.  People crow about indigenous people's living off the taxpayer and then when they try to create economic opportunities and jobs for their people's also a problem...

    Its ridiculous....
    Wow, no shit!  Fucking ridiculous.
    I can't believe some here only see this from an "outrage culture" stance (so "hip" to call it that, I guess) and still refuse to look at it from the indigenous persons disgust over their culture being used (i.e. appropriated) the way it has.  That's so ass-backwards a way to see it, it's not even funny.
    Yeah, racism towards indigenous people seems to get a pass from some here and that fucking boggles my mind.  Sad, really sad.

    If you named a sports team using a derogatory name that is used when referring to black people this place would lose its shit…there’d be 60 threads all about 6000 pages long…but when it comes to indigenous peoples many here are more worried about their precious sports teams name and logo…how bout we call the Cleveland team “the mistake by the lake.”  That seems appropriate.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    JeBurkhardt said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    hedonist said:
    “Cracker “ is such a silly term. All of them are, really. 

    its also cultural apropriation , being a black term for southern whites......
    It's a racial slur.

    If you dig into the word it originates from 17th century and it was never a word that was used politely.  It morphed over the years to be a belittling word to white people.

    If you ask most white people about the term I don't think you'd find many people take offense to it though?
    Some wear it like a badge of honor. 
    Yep, just like the term redneck.  It can go both ways.
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,808
    edited July 2021
    As a person who is mostly white I laugh my butt off at any white person claiming to be put down by hearing the terms Cracker, White Trash, or Redneck.  (Edit - when referenced as such by any minorities)

    Sure, they have been used in a derogatory fashion, but to what detriment?  

    Richsters - Filthy Rich - Blue Bloods - Silver Spooners - Trust Fund Fuckers
    Do those names hurt rich people?

    Pssshhhhhh.

    Florida Crackers would be a great name.
    Post edited by F Me In The Brain on
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • JeBurkhardt
    JeBurkhardt Posts: 5,321
    F Me In The Brain said:
    As a person who is mostly white I laugh my butt off at any white person claiming to be put down by hearing the terms Cracker, White Trash, or Redneck.  (Edit - when referenced as such by any minorities)

    Sure, they have been used in a derogatory fashion, but to what detriment?  

    Richsters - Filthy Rich - Blue Bloods - Silver Spooners - Trust Fund Fuckers
    Do those names hurt rich people?

    Pssshhhhhh.

    Florida Crackers would be a great name.
    I grew up in a racially diverse area and was called "white boy" all the time. I survived.
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,808
    JeBurkhardt said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    As a person who is mostly white I laugh my butt off at any white person claiming to be put down by hearing the terms Cracker, White Trash, or Redneck.  (Edit - when referenced as such by any minorities)

    Sure, they have been used in a derogatory fashion, but to what detriment?  

    Richsters - Filthy Rich - Blue Bloods - Silver Spooners - Trust Fund Fuckers
    Do those names hurt rich people?

    Pssshhhhhh.

    Florida Crackers would be a great name.
    I grew up in a racially diverse area and was called "white boy" all the time. I survived.

    Totally - glad you could pull yourself up by your bootstraps and shake off the burden that society placed on you, being a white boy. 
    ;)
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • JeBurkhardt
    JeBurkhardt Posts: 5,321
    F Me In The Brain said:
    JeBurkhardt said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    As a person who is mostly white I laugh my butt off at any white person claiming to be put down by hearing the terms Cracker, White Trash, or Redneck.  (Edit - when referenced as such by any minorities)

    Sure, they have been used in a derogatory fashion, but to what detriment?  

    Richsters - Filthy Rich - Blue Bloods - Silver Spooners - Trust Fund Fuckers
    Do those names hurt rich people?

    Pssshhhhhh.

    Florida Crackers would be a great name.
    I grew up in a racially diverse area and was called "white boy" all the time. I survived.

    Totally - glad you could pull yourself up by your bootstraps and shake off the burden that society placed on you, being a white boy. 
    ;)
    It was a struggle for sure.
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Opinions | Indian sports mascots don’t just mock Native culture. They erase it. (msn.com)

    From the article...

    Mascots are a particularly insulting indignity because they underscore the way White America and the U.S. government have devalued, controlled and attempted to eradicate Native cultures. Native people have held on to their languages and cultures through great persistence. They have been both shamed and romanticized. This history is one the rest of us tend to be unaware of; Native Americans object to fans playing at cultural practices like wearing face paint and feathers because the fans have no understanding of these items’ cultural meaning, of how they have been suppressed, or of the sacrifices, Native people have made to preserve them.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    F Me In The Brain said:
    As a person who is mostly white I laugh my butt off at any white person claiming to be put down by hearing the terms Cracker, White Trash, or Redneck.  (Edit - when referenced as such by any minorities)

    Sure, they have been used in a derogatory fashion, but to what detriment?  

    Richsters - Filthy Rich - Blue Bloods - Silver Spooners - Trust Fund Fuckers
    Do those names hurt rich people?

    Pssshhhhhh.

    Florida Crackers would be a great name.
    JeBurkhardt said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    As a person who is mostly white I laugh my butt off at any white person claiming to be put down by hearing the terms Cracker, White Trash, or Redneck.  (Edit - when referenced as such by any minorities)

    Sure, they have been used in a derogatory fashion, but to what detriment?  

    Richsters - Filthy Rich - Blue Bloods - Silver Spooners - Trust Fund Fuckers
    Do those names hurt rich people?

    Pssshhhhhh.

    Florida Crackers would be a great name.
    I grew up in a racially diverse area and was called "white boy" all the time. I survived.
    Don't you find it interesting that it's meant as a slight and none of us seem to care?

    Why it bounces right off of us but with other ethnicities certain words are taboo?

    I would love to read a book on it if anyone has written one.
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    tempo_n_groove said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    As a person who is mostly white I laugh my butt off at any white person claiming to be put down by hearing the terms Cracker, White Trash, or Redneck.  (Edit - when referenced as such by any minorities)

    Sure, they have been used in a derogatory fashion, but to what detriment?  

    Richsters - Filthy Rich - Blue Bloods - Silver Spooners - Trust Fund Fuckers
    Do those names hurt rich people?

    Pssshhhhhh.

    Florida Crackers would be a great name.
    JeBurkhardt said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    As a person who is mostly white I laugh my butt off at any white person claiming to be put down by hearing the terms Cracker, White Trash, or Redneck.  (Edit - when referenced as such by any minorities)

    Sure, they have been used in a derogatory fashion, but to what detriment?  

    Richsters - Filthy Rich - Blue Bloods - Silver Spooners - Trust Fund Fuckers
    Do those names hurt rich people?

    Pssshhhhhh.

    Florida Crackers would be a great name.
    I grew up in a racially diverse area and was called "white boy" all the time. I survived.
    Don't you find it interesting that it's meant as a slight and none of us seem to care?

    Why it bounces right off of us but with other ethnicities certain words are taboo?

    I would love to read a book on it if anyone has written one.
    Because unlike the "N" word (and others), it was never used to strip white people of their humanity and oppress them?

    You can call me Flower if you want you.
    I SAW PEARL JAM

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