Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else
He’s not “saving us from ourselves.” He’s guaranteeing that repubs will run and get elected on a platform of, “Dems can’t get anything done, have ruined ‘Murica, didn’t keep their promises and only repubs can fix it by cutting taxes.” Thanks Joe, for being honest about what you “knew in your heart.”
Bernie supporters seem awfully quiet too. Guess they were really repub POOTWH supporters?
Nope I just gave up on the Democratic Party and am not surprised that they would rather capitulate to manchin and his business backers than do what a majority of Americans asked to be delivered. In essence at least this Bernie backer has pretty much checked out. I’m glad Joe got us out of Afghanistan and think he did a great job given the circumstances, but the party moving to the whims of manchin and sinema has really solidified what I thought. Neither party really cares about America. Now all the Dems can scapegoat and blame manchin while nothing gets done and they hand over the machinations to republicans. Sure every 2 to four years I will probably vote blue for the chance some improvements get made, but I’m not holding my breath that anything will actually get done.
given the 50-50 split, just how exactly do you suggest they deal with Manchin and Sinema on this or any other issue they balk at??
H2TM said it better than I could.
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,069
Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else
He’s not “saving us from ourselves.” He’s guaranteeing that repubs will run and get elected on a platform of, “Dems can’t get anything done, have ruined ‘Murica, didn’t keep their promises and only repubs can fix it by cutting taxes.” Thanks Joe, for being honest about what you “knew in your heart.”
Bernie supporters seem awfully quiet too. Guess they were really repub POOTWH supporters?
Nope I just gave up on the Democratic Party and am not surprised that they would rather capitulate to manchin and his business backers than do what a majority of Americans asked to be delivered. In essence at least this Bernie backer has pretty much checked out. I’m glad Joe got us out of Afghanistan and think he did a great job given the circumstances, but the party moving to the whims of manchin and sinema has really solidified what I thought. Neither party really cares about America. Now all the Dems can scapegoat and blame manchin while nothing gets done and they hand over the machinations to republicans. Sure every 2 to four years I will probably vote blue for the chance some improvements get made, but I’m not holding my breath that anything will actually get done.
given the 50-50 split, just how exactly do you suggest they deal with Manchin and Sinema on this or any other issue they balk at??
H2TM said it better than I could.
weak. asked you not him. doubt much of that is doable in the first place.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else
He’s not “saving us from ourselves.” He’s guaranteeing that repubs will run and get elected on a platform of, “Dems can’t get anything done, have ruined ‘Murica, didn’t keep their promises and only repubs can fix it by cutting taxes.” Thanks Joe, for being honest about what you “knew in your heart.”
Bernie supporters seem awfully quiet too. Guess they were really repub POOTWH supporters?
Nope I just gave up on the Democratic Party and am not surprised that they would rather capitulate to manchin and his business backers than do what a majority of Americans asked to be delivered. In essence at least this Bernie backer has pretty much checked out. I’m glad Joe got us out of Afghanistan and think he did a great job given the circumstances, but the party moving to the whims of manchin and sinema has really solidified what I thought. Neither party really cares about America. Now all the Dems can scapegoat and blame manchin while nothing gets done and they hand over the machinations to republicans. Sure every 2 to four years I will probably vote blue for the chance some improvements get made, but I’m not holding my breath that anything will actually get done.
given the 50-50 split, just how exactly do you suggest they deal with Manchin and Sinema on this or any other issue they balk at??
H2TM said it better than I could.
weak. asked you not him. doubt much of that is doable in the first place.
Has joe made any public statements about Sinema and Manchin basically keeping everything he was elected for from happening? If not I think that would be a start. Really I agree with Hal, start stripping their funding, see how long they stand firm. If they switch parties, well then we know where we are and will have a reason to try to get more progressive support in 2022. If we let them suck the political capital from the room with none of the major goals getting passed, well then I guess be happy when the are take back over because we stood by Manchin a and Sinema because they had (d) next to their names.
Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else
He’s not “saving us from ourselves.” He’s guaranteeing that repubs will run and get elected on a platform of, “Dems can’t get anything done, have ruined ‘Murica, didn’t keep their promises and only repubs can fix it by cutting taxes.” Thanks Joe, for being honest about what you “knew in your heart.”
Bernie supporters seem awfully quiet too. Guess they were really repub POOTWH supporters?
Nope I just gave up on the Democratic Party and am not surprised that they would rather capitulate to manchin and his business backers than do what a majority of Americans asked to be delivered. In essence at least this Bernie backer has pretty much checked out. I’m glad Joe got us out of Afghanistan and think he did a great job given the circumstances, but the party moving to the whims of manchin and sinema has really solidified what I thought. Neither party really cares about America. Now all the Dems can scapegoat and blame manchin while nothing gets done and they hand over the machinations to republicans. Sure every 2 to four years I will probably vote blue for the chance some improvements get made, but I’m not holding my breath that anything will actually get done.
given the 50-50 split, just how exactly do you suggest they deal with Manchin and Sinema on this or any other issue they balk at??
H2TM said it better than I could.
weak. asked you not him. doubt much of that is doable in the first place.
Has joe made any public statements about Sinema and Manchin basically keeping everything he was elected for from happening? If not I think that would be a start. Really I agree with Hal, start stripping their funding, see how long they stand firm. If they switch parties, well then we know where we are and will have a reason to try to get more progressive support in 2022. If we let them suck the political capital from the room with none of the major goals getting passed, well then I guess be happy when the are take back over because we stood by Manchin a and Sinema because they had (d) next to their names.
They both need to be slapped down like the punks they are. Holding a party hostage as hand wringers.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Manchin can just hold up progress and all the rest of the party can scapegoat that they would have got more accomplished if not for him. Republicans will sweep 22 on the Dems get nothing done and we narrowly avoided socialism platform. If the answer is to just throw up the hands and say there is nothing to do, well what is the point in participating in a system that will lead to the ice caps fully melting and the world burning? It’s getting harder to see a reason to keep participating, but he’s not trump or a Republican isn’t enough anymore, especially if all the collective D party is going to do is delay the inevitable march to destruction.
Dem senators represent 40M more ‘Muricans. You seem okay with the tyranny of the minority.
stop it. bullshit assumptions.
acknowledging and accepting reality as it is does not mean its condoned or approved of.
I , by myself, cannot change it. I , by myself, cannot change the fact a democrst senator is representing a republican majority state. I, by myself, cannot change the fact that the "senior" senator from Arizona is how she is.
whats in my power is seeking to defeat the 15 or so fuckstick sycophants running to replace my states spineless lackey retiring gop senator by working to get the dem nominee elected next year, so maybe, just maybe we wont need one or the others vote to get good things done .
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Remind me again of what value Manchin and Sinema bring to the party?
Sinema, from WaPo:
However the battle over President Biden’s agenda turns out, this ugly saga will accomplish something crucial: It will separate Democrats who take their role as public servants seriously from those who are operating with such epic levels of bad faith that they are essentially insulting the intelligence of their own constituents.
Rep. Katie Porter (D-Calif.) just delivered a sharp dressing down to Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) that neatly crystallizes this contrast. Many progressives are hammering Sinema, of course, but Porter’s broadside captures something essential about what we’re seeing from the senator, and by extension, about the crossroads that Democrats now face.
That essential point is this: Public servants should feel a basic obligation to level with the voters who granted them the privilege of being their representatives. While more may be happening in private talks than we know, all signs are that Sinema’s caginess is edging toward a level of deceptiveness that borders on betrayal of public duty.
Speaking on MSNBC, Porter lambasted Sinema for refusing to specify what she’ll accept in the multitrillion-dollar bill Democrats hope to pass through reconciliation. House progressives are threatening to vote down the smaller bipartisan infrastructure bill that already passed the Senate, to pressure centrists to negotiate the reconciliation bill in good faith.
Porter told host Lawrence O’Donnell that progressives would make good on that threat in the infrastructure vote set for Thursday, and added:
Until Senator Sinema and Senator Manchin are able to come up with what they want, to do for their constituents, to do for the American people — until Senator Sinema stops being cute, and starts doing her job and leading for the people of Arizona — we’re simply not going to be able to move the president’s agenda forward.
O’Donnell pointed out that if centrists get the infrastructure bill passed, they’ll be liberated from having to support a robust reconciliation bill later.
“I think that’s really irresponsible to their constituents and to the people of this country,” Porter replied. The reconciliation bill, Porter noted, will provide more home care to the elderly and child-care assistance that helps more women enter the workforce, and will expand health care to enable more workers to stay healthy and productive.
“I was elected to create a strong and stable and globally competitive economy,” Porter continued, adding that if Sinema and Manchin “really believe” the infrastructure bill alone will accomplish this, “they owe it to the American people to say that.”
Stressing that it’s impossible to negotiate until centrists say what they want, Porter added:
I was not elected to read the mind of Kyrsten Sinema. Thank goodness, because I have no idea what she’s thinking.
This bill was hammered out earlier in September by a group of senators trying to find common ground with conservative Democrat Joe Manchin of West Virginia, who objected to the sweeping For the People Act passed by the House. The Freedom to Vote Act pared down that larger bill but retained its most important pieces. It creates a national standard for voting rules and tries to stop voter suppression, modernizes voter registration, and replaces old, paperless voting machines with new ones that have a voter-verified paper trail. It slows the flood of money into our elections and ends partisan gerrymandering. It establishes strict rules for post-election audits.
This defense of voting is popular. A Data for Progress poll found that 70% of likely voters support the act. That number includes 85% of self-identified Democrats, 67% of Independents, and 54% of Republicans.
Manchin maintains that he can find 10 Republican senators to join the Democrats to get 60 votes, enabling the measure to overcome a Republican filibuster. But there is, so far, no sign that those votes are materializing, and every day that goes by brings us closer to having gerrymandered district lines hardened into place before the 2022 election. Indeed, the stonewalling by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) of Democratic attempts to lift the debt ceiling is wasting time that otherwise would be given to the voting rights bill.
Never mind that neither Senator can articulate what changes they'd like to see, only that its too big or too expensive. They both appear to be playing cute. Manchin can't deliver so why isn't President Biden leaning on him, and by extension Sinema? Be an awful shame if the Pentagon closed that base in Prescott or if the FBI offices relocated out of WV. What's the downside? Force their hand. Or get ready to lose the House, Senate and WH. Own it.
Sens. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema have said President Biden’s $3.5 trillion social spending proposal is too expensive, but they have been reluctant to specify how they want it changed.
Do 100% of Democratic Party voters want large tax increases for $3.5T in new spending? Or, did the election result in a 50/50 senate, 3 vote House margin, a POTUS who won by 0.000001% in three swing states and a progressive who was destroyed by the moderate once it was a 1:1 in the democratic primaries?
We have allowed AOC and Sanders to wrestle control of the party and are heading for a disaster at the midterms. The only thing keeping us in the game is Manchin fighting virtually alone to get the price tag under $2 trillion. When they call us socialists during the next election, it will be impossible to fight off that argument. Government takeover of child care? Free associates degrees for everyone? Good grief we are getting blasted next year.
What were Manchin’s votes on the debt ceiling when the POOTWH Administration added $8T to the debt and gave tax cuts to the wealthiest among us, paid for by GDP growth at 4% a quarter, quarter over quarter, year over year, for ten years, knowing that that was nowhere near possible? Not to mention the lying sack of shit knew what his “magic number” was back in July. Fucker should follow his heart and join the repub party. And that $3.5T is over 10 years.
The dem senators represent 40 million more voters than the repub senators and Biden won by 7 million. The Dems have a political mandate and should spend their political capital. When the money flows and jobs are created those skeptical will come out for Dems. The polling shows majority support for all the spending. Instead Dems wring their hands and look weak. Now that’s a political strategy.
And why the “bait” comment?
The bait was just me joking that I disagreed, that’s all.
Pointing out votes of bipartisan bills in past administrations is not what is relevant, to me at least. Dems want to pass $3.5T in spending alone with zero R votes, they will have a difficult time shrugging off the socialist label at the midterms.
The only poll that matters is the one on Election Day by the rules established by the constitution, not some fairy tale about how many votes democrat senators get. The Dakotas get double the senate votes than California.
And last November 1.5 million net voters picked Biden and a Republican in the House on the same piece of paper or screen. That proves how close we were to trump winning and how many voters do not want government overreach. Add in a 50/50 senate and a 3 vote majority in the House, and that’s ample evidence Dems should not be letting the progressives run the party.
If Dems were smart, they’d take manchin for as much as possible, $1.7 or 1.8T and ask voters next year, if you like this tax and spend policy, vote for us and we will do the rest of the $3.5T next December. That’s how democracy is supposed to work
But smart politics has never been the strength of progressives
Manchin can just hold up progress and all the rest of the party can scapegoat that they would have got more accomplished if not for him. Republicans will sweep 22 on the Dems get nothing done and we narrowly avoided socialism platform. If the answer is to just throw up the hands and say there is nothing to do, well what is the point in participating in a system that will lead to the ice caps fully melting and the world burning? It’s getting harder to see a reason to keep participating, but he’s not trump or a Republican isn’t enough anymore, especially if all the collective D party is going to do is delay the inevitable march to destruction.
To the best of the info publicly available, manchin is on board for almost $2T in spending. Take that and the $1T bipartisan bill and call it a victory. Then go to the voters, if you like this, vote for us at the midterms and we will finish the bill.
there is zero reason to try to ram the full $3T down the throats of moderates when the progressives simply do not have the votes.
Remind me again of what value Manchin and Sinema bring to the party?
Sinema, from WaPo:
However the battle over President Biden’s agenda turns out, this ugly saga will accomplish something crucial: It will separate Democrats who take their role as public servants seriously from those who are operating with such epic levels of bad faith that they are essentially insulting the intelligence of their own constituents.
Rep. Katie Porter (D-Calif.) just delivered a sharp dressing down to Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) that neatly crystallizes this contrast. Many progressives are hammering Sinema, of course, but Porter’s broadside captures something essential about what we’re seeing from the senator, and by extension, about the crossroads that Democrats now face.
That essential point is this: Public servants should feel a basic obligation to level with the voters who granted them the privilege of being their representatives. While more may be happening in private talks than we know, all signs are that Sinema’s caginess is edging toward a level of deceptiveness that borders on betrayal of public duty.
Speaking on MSNBC, Porter lambasted Sinema for refusing to specify what she’ll accept in the multitrillion-dollar bill Democrats hope to pass through reconciliation. House progressives are threatening to vote down the smaller bipartisan infrastructure bill that already passed the Senate, to pressure centrists to negotiate the reconciliation bill in good faith.
Porter told host Lawrence O’Donnell that progressives would make good on that threat in the infrastructure vote set for Thursday, and added:
Until Senator Sinema and Senator Manchin are able to come up with what they want, to do for their constituents, to do for the American people — until Senator Sinema stops being cute, and starts doing her job and leading for the people of Arizona — we’re simply not going to be able to move the president’s agenda forward.
O’Donnell pointed out that if centrists get the infrastructure bill passed, they’ll be liberated from having to support a robust reconciliation bill later.
“I think that’s really irresponsible to their constituents and to the people of this country,” Porter replied. The reconciliation bill, Porter noted, will provide more home care to the elderly and child-care assistance that helps more women enter the workforce, and will expand health care to enable more workers to stay healthy and productive.
“I was elected to create a strong and stable and globally competitive economy,” Porter continued, adding that if Sinema and Manchin “really believe” the infrastructure bill alone will accomplish this, “they owe it to the American people to say that.”
Stressing that it’s impossible to negotiate until centrists say what they want, Porter added:
I was not elected to read the mind of Kyrsten Sinema. Thank goodness, because I have no idea what she’s thinking.
This bill was hammered out earlier in September by a group of senators trying to find common ground with conservative Democrat Joe Manchin of West Virginia, who objected to the sweeping For the People Act passed by the House. The Freedom to Vote Act pared down that larger bill but retained its most important pieces. It creates a national standard for voting rules and tries to stop voter suppression, modernizes voter registration, and replaces old, paperless voting machines with new ones that have a voter-verified paper trail. It slows the flood of money into our elections and ends partisan gerrymandering. It establishes strict rules for post-election audits.
This defense of voting is popular. A Data for Progress poll found that 70% of likely voters support the act. That number includes 85% of self-identified Democrats, 67% of Independents, and 54% of Republicans.
Manchin maintains that he can find 10 Republican senators to join the Democrats to get 60 votes, enabling the measure to overcome a Republican filibuster. But there is, so far, no sign that those votes are materializing, and every day that goes by brings us closer to having gerrymandered district lines hardened into place before the 2022 election. Indeed, the stonewalling by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) of Democratic attempts to lift the debt ceiling is wasting time that otherwise would be given to the voting rights bill.
Never mind that neither Senator can articulate what changes they'd like to see, only that its too big or too expensive. They both appear to be playing cute. Manchin can't deliver so why isn't President Biden leaning on him, and by extension Sinema? Be an awful shame if the Pentagon closed that base in Prescott or if the FBI offices relocated out of WV. What's the downside? Force their hand. Or get ready to lose the House, Senate and WH. Own it.
Sens. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema have said President Biden’s $3.5 trillion social spending proposal is too expensive, but they have been reluctant to specify how they want it changed.
Do 100% of Democratic Party voters want large tax increases for $3.5T in new spending? Or, did the election result in a 50/50 senate, 3 vote House margin, a POTUS who won by 0.000001% in three swing states and a progressive who was destroyed by the moderate once it was a 1:1 in the democratic primaries?
We have allowed AOC and Sanders to wrestle control of the party and are heading for a disaster at the midterms. The only thing keeping us in the game is Manchin fighting virtually alone to get the price tag under $2 trillion. When they call us socialists during the next election, it will be impossible to fight off that argument. Government takeover of child care? Free associates degrees for everyone? Good grief we are getting blasted next year.
What were Manchin’s votes on the debt ceiling when the POOTWH Administration added $8T to the debt and gave tax cuts to the wealthiest among us, paid for by GDP growth at 4% a quarter, quarter over quarter, year over year, for ten years, knowing that that was nowhere near possible? Not to mention the lying sack of shit knew what his “magic number” was back in July. Fucker should follow his heart and join the repub party. And that $3.5T is over 10 years.
The dem senators represent 40 million more voters than the repub senators and Biden won by 7 million. The Dems have a political mandate and should spend their political capital. When the money flows and jobs are created those skeptical will come out for Dems. The polling shows majority support for all the spending. Instead Dems wring their hands and look weak. Now that’s a political strategy.
And why the “bait” comment?
The bait was just me joking that I disagreed, that’s all.
Pointing out votes of bipartisan bills in past administrations is not what is relevant, to me at least. Dems want to pass $3.5T in spending alone with zero R votes, they will have a difficult time shrugging off the socialist label at the midterms.
The only poll that matters is the one on Election Day by the rules established by the constitution, not some fairy tale about how many votes democrat senators get. The Dakotas get double the senate votes than California.
And last November 1.5 million net voters picked Biden and a Republican in the House on the same piece of paper or screen. That proves how close we were to trump winning and how many voters do not want government overreach. Add in a 50/50 senate and a 3 vote majority in the House, and that’s ample evidence Dems should not be letting the progressives run the party.
If Dems were smart, they’d take manchin for as much as possible, $1.7 or 1.8T and ask voters next year, if you like this tax and spend policy, vote for us and we will do the rest of the $3.5T next December. That’s how democracy is supposed to work
But smart politics has never been the strength of progressives
You assume there’s another party offering alternatives. There isn’t.
Dem senators represent 40M more ‘Muricans. You seem okay with the tyranny of the minority.
stop it. bullshit assumptions.
acknowledging and accepting reality as it is does not mean its condoned or approved of.
I , by myself, cannot change it. I , by myself, cannot change the fact a democrst senator is representing a republican majority state. I, by myself, cannot change the fact that the "senior" senator from Arizona is how she is.
whats in my power is seeking to defeat the 15 or so fuckstick sycophants running to replace my states spineless lackey retiring gop senator by working to get the dem nominee elected next year, so maybe, just maybe we wont need one or the others vote to get good things done .
Why so sensitive? You seem to think 2 senators can and should hold the other 48 hostage. There are alternatives. Beyond your power to change things.
Dem senators represent 40M more ‘Muricans. You seem okay with the tyranny of the minority.
stop it. bullshit assumptions.
acknowledging and accepting reality as it is does not mean its condoned or approved of.
I , by myself, cannot change it. I , by myself, cannot change the fact a democrst senator is representing a republican majority state. I, by myself, cannot change the fact that the "senior" senator from Arizona is how she is.
whats in my power is seeking to defeat the 15 or so fuckstick sycophants running to replace my states spineless lackey retiring gop senator by working to get the dem nominee elected next year, so maybe, just maybe we wont need one or the others vote to get good things done .
Why so sensitive? You seem to think 2 senators can and should hold the other 48 hostage. There are alternatives. Beyond your power to change things.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Dem senators represent 40M more ‘Muricans. You seem okay with the tyranny of the minority.
stop it. bullshit assumptions.
acknowledging and accepting reality as it is does not mean its condoned or approved of.
I , by myself, cannot change it. I , by myself, cannot change the fact a democrst senator is representing a republican majority state. I, by myself, cannot change the fact that the "senior" senator from Arizona is how she is.
whats in my power is seeking to defeat the 15 or so fuckstick sycophants running to replace my states spineless lackey retiring gop senator by working to get the dem nominee elected next year, so maybe, just maybe we wont need one or the others vote to get good things done .
Why so sensitive? You seem to think 2 senators can and should hold the other 48 hostage. There are alternatives. Beyond your power to change things.
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,069
should the messaging be 350 billion a year for ten years as opposed to 3.5 trillion? it is the same amount but the former doesnt seem so daunting to me....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,069
Biden tells GOP to 'get out of the way' on debt limit
By JOSH BOAK and KEVIN FREKING
2 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden on Monday urged Republican senators to “get out of the way” and let Democrats suspend the nation’s debt limit, hoping to keep the U.S. government from bumping dangerously close to a credit default as Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell refuses to lend his party’s help.
Biden’s criticism came with Congress facing an Oct 18 deadline to allow for more borrowing to keep the government operating after having accrued a total public debt of $28.4 trillion. The House has passed a measure to suspend the debt limit, but McConnell is forcing Senate Democrats into a cumbersome process that could drag on and approach the deadline with little margin for error.
Both Biden and McConnell have promised that the country will avoid default, yet the public fight and political posturing risks an economic meltdown. The global economy relies on the stability of U.S. Treasury notes, and unpaid debt could crush financial markets and hurl America into recession. Biden noted that the debt limit applies to borrowing that has already occurred, including under former President Donald Trump, and said Republicans are hurting the country by blocking the limit's suspension.
“They need to stop playing Russian roulette with the U.S. economy,” Biden said at the White House. “Republicans just have to let us do our job. Just get out of the way. If you don’t want to help save the country, get out of the way so you don’t destroy it.”
Unmoved, McConnell said Republicans had given the Democrats a roadmap for dealing with the debt ceiling with months of warning.
“I suggest that our Democratic colleagues get moving,” McConnell said at the Capitol.
Once a routine vote, the need to raise the nation’s debt limit has become increasingly partisan. It’s become a favorite political weapon of Republicans to either demand concessions or force Democrats into unpopular votes to enable more borrowing. McConnell has tied the vote to Biden's multitrillion-dollar tax and economic agenda that awaits Congressional approval. But Biden says the price tag in terms of debt for his plan will be “zero,” paid for by raising taxes on corporations and on the wealthy, whom the House Democrats have defined as individuals earning more than $400,000 a year, or couples making more than $450,000.
Biden said he planned to talk with McConnell, who dug in with a letter of his own to the president.
“We have no list of demands. For two and a half months, we have simply warned that since your party wishes to govern alone, it must handle the debt limit alone as well,” the Kentucky senator wrote in the Monday letter.
The financial markets have stayed relatively calm with interest rates on 10-year Treasury notes holding just below 1.5%. That rate is slightly higher than the all-time lows set last year as the coronavirus pandemic spread, but it's still lower than at any other time over nearly 60 years of data tracked by the Federal Reserve.
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen has projected the government will exhaust its cash reserves on Oct. 18, an event she says would likely trigger a financial crisis and economic recession. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer warned Monday that it would be hazardous for the economy to come anywhere near that deadline.
“The consequences of even approaching the X date could be disastrous for our economy and devastating to American families, raising the costs of borrowing for average Americans and hampering our economic recovery over the long-term," Schumer said in a letter to Democratic senators.
Democrats and Republicans are in a standoff over how to handle an extension for the debt ceiling. Republicans are insisting that Democrats go it alone with the same legislative tool that is already being used to try and pass Biden’s plan to boost safety net, health and environmental programs. Democrats say that extending the debt limit has traditionally been a bipartisan effort and that the debt cap was built up under presidents from both parties.
Schumer said that if the debt issue is not resolved this week, the Senate will likely be forced to remain in session during the weekend and possibly the following week when senators were scheduled to be back in their home states.
Schumer also discussed the current state of play with the bipartisan $1 trillion infrastructure bill that has already passed the Senate and is stuck in the House, as well as Biden's larger, $3.5 trillion effort focused on social programs and the environment that would be offset by tax increases on corporations and the wealthy. He noted that the president visited with House Democrats on Friday to generate support for both measures.
“He encouraged them to stick together, compromise, and find the sweet spot that will allow us to complete our work," Schumer said. “I agree with his sentiment wholeheartedly – we can get this done, together, if we put aside our differences and find the common ground within our party."
Biden discussed the larger plan with progressive House Democrats during a virtual meeting Monday afternoon. And Schumer, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and top White House advisers huddled late Monday at the Capitol over it.
“We’re making progress, Pelosi said as she exited. Schumer had said in an earlier letter to colleagues they need to reach a deal soon, preferably “days, not weeks.”
Schumer and McConnell debated the debt ceiling when the Senate earlier Monday.
McConnell noted that Biden voted against raising the debt ceiling as a senator when Republicans controlled Congress and the presidency.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
lol manchin thinks he can bring 10 republican senators over to support a bill.
i wonder how he plans to do that when the gop is in lockstep to vote against anything the dems want to do. how many more times do we have to see manchin fail to deliver 10 republicans? manchin is weak, and the gop knows he is weak. he is unpopular among democrats. why would any of them work with manchin when it plays better to their base to sit on their hands and do nothing? manchin is a fool.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
lol manchin thinks he can bring 10 republican senators over to support a bill.
i wonder how he plans to do that when the gop is in lockstep to vote against anything the dems want to do. how many more times do we have to see manchin fail to deliver 10 republicans? manchin is weak, and the gop knows he is weak. he is unpopular among democrats. why would any of them work with manchin when it plays better to their base to sit on their hands and do nothing? manchin is a fool.
Because... in theory... he could support killing the filibuster. He has that as leverage. I'm not saying he will use it, but it's there.
lol manchin thinks he can bring 10 republican senators over to support a bill.
i wonder how he plans to do that when the gop is in lockstep to vote against anything the dems want to do. how many more times do we have to see manchin fail to deliver 10 republicans? manchin is weak, and the gop knows he is weak. he is unpopular among democrats. why would any of them work with manchin when it plays better to their base to sit on their hands and do nothing? manchin is a fool.
Because... in theory... he could support killing the filibuster. He has that as leverage. I'm not saying he will use it, but it's there.
he has point blank stated that he opposes abolishing the filibuster. he said he may be open to limiting it's use to certain types of legislation, but he is against doing away with it. the gop knows this.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
the only loser that cares about approval numbers at this stage (or most stages) is Trump.
Because Trump is the only president with a worse one at this point in the past 40 years?
manchin and sinema are DIRECTLY to blame for this. he was elected to do a job and pass legislation and his own fucking party is hamstringing him. his policies are way more popular than anything trump ever did, but those 2 senators are holding everything up.
the republicans are good at running on things like this, but when they get power they fuck it all up because they cannot govern. dems get power and they either a. can't get their own people in line to pass anything meaningful or b. always compromise with the minority party. as if the minority party will ever allow the dems to pass their agenda.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Comments
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
weak. asked you not him. doubt much of that is doable in the first place.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I assume representing their constituents
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Pointing out votes of bipartisan bills in past administrations is not what is relevant, to me at least. Dems want to pass $3.5T in spending alone with zero R votes, they will have a difficult time shrugging off the socialist label at the midterms.
But smart politics has never been the strength of progressives
there is zero reason to try to ram the full $3T down the throats of moderates when the progressives simply do not have the votes.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I have a suggestion. figure out what it is
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden on Monday urged Republican senators to “get out of the way” and let Democrats suspend the nation’s debt limit, hoping to keep the U.S. government from bumping dangerously close to a credit default as Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell refuses to lend his party’s help.
Biden’s criticism came with Congress facing an Oct 18 deadline to allow for more borrowing to keep the government operating after having accrued a total public debt of $28.4 trillion. The House has passed a measure to suspend the debt limit, but McConnell is forcing Senate Democrats into a cumbersome process that could drag on and approach the deadline with little margin for error.
Both Biden and McConnell have promised that the country will avoid default, yet the public fight and political posturing risks an economic meltdown. The global economy relies on the stability of U.S. Treasury notes, and unpaid debt could crush financial markets and hurl America into recession. Biden noted that the debt limit applies to borrowing that has already occurred, including under former President Donald Trump, and said Republicans are hurting the country by blocking the limit's suspension.
“They need to stop playing Russian roulette with the U.S. economy,” Biden said at the White House. “Republicans just have to let us do our job. Just get out of the way. If you don’t want to help save the country, get out of the way so you don’t destroy it.”
Unmoved, McConnell said Republicans had given the Democrats a roadmap for dealing with the debt ceiling with months of warning.
“I suggest that our Democratic colleagues get moving,” McConnell said at the Capitol.
Once a routine vote, the need to raise the nation’s debt limit has become increasingly partisan. It’s become a favorite political weapon of Republicans to either demand concessions or force Democrats into unpopular votes to enable more borrowing. McConnell has tied the vote to Biden's multitrillion-dollar tax and economic agenda that awaits Congressional approval. But Biden says the price tag in terms of debt for his plan will be “zero,” paid for by raising taxes on corporations and on the wealthy, whom the House Democrats have defined as individuals earning more than $400,000 a year, or couples making more than $450,000.
Biden said he planned to talk with McConnell, who dug in with a letter of his own to the president.
“We have no list of demands. For two and a half months, we have simply warned that since your party wishes to govern alone, it must handle the debt limit alone as well,” the Kentucky senator wrote in the Monday letter.
The financial markets have stayed relatively calm with interest rates on 10-year Treasury notes holding just below 1.5%. That rate is slightly higher than the all-time lows set last year as the coronavirus pandemic spread, but it's still lower than at any other time over nearly 60 years of data tracked by the Federal Reserve.
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen has projected the government will exhaust its cash reserves on Oct. 18, an event she says would likely trigger a financial crisis and economic recession. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer warned Monday that it would be hazardous for the economy to come anywhere near that deadline.
“The consequences of even approaching the X date could be disastrous for our economy and devastating to American families, raising the costs of borrowing for average Americans and hampering our economic recovery over the long-term," Schumer said in a letter to Democratic senators.
Democrats and Republicans are in a standoff over how to handle an extension for the debt ceiling. Republicans are insisting that Democrats go it alone with the same legislative tool that is already being used to try and pass Biden’s plan to boost safety net, health and environmental programs. Democrats say that extending the debt limit has traditionally been a bipartisan effort and that the debt cap was built up under presidents from both parties.
Schumer said that if the debt issue is not resolved this week, the Senate will likely be forced to remain in session during the weekend and possibly the following week when senators were scheduled to be back in their home states.
Schumer also discussed the current state of play with the bipartisan $1 trillion infrastructure bill that has already passed the Senate and is stuck in the House, as well as Biden's larger, $3.5 trillion effort focused on social programs and the environment that would be offset by tax increases on corporations and the wealthy. He noted that the president visited with House Democrats on Friday to generate support for both measures.
“He encouraged them to stick together, compromise, and find the sweet spot that will allow us to complete our work," Schumer said. “I agree with his sentiment wholeheartedly – we can get this done, together, if we put aside our differences and find the common ground within our party."
Biden discussed the larger plan with progressive House Democrats during a virtual meeting Monday afternoon. And Schumer, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and top White House advisers huddled late Monday at the Capitol over it.
“We’re making progress, Pelosi said as she exited. Schumer had said in an earlier letter to colleagues they need to reach a deal soon, preferably “days, not weeks.”
Schumer and McConnell debated the debt ceiling when the Senate earlier Monday.
McConnell noted that Biden voted against raising the debt ceiling as a senator when Republicans controlled Congress and the presidency.
continued...
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
i wonder how he plans to do that when the gop is in lockstep to vote against anything the dems want to do. how many more times do we have to see manchin fail to deliver 10 republicans? manchin is weak, and the gop knows he is weak. he is unpopular among democrats. why would any of them work with manchin when it plays better to their base to sit on their hands and do nothing? manchin is a fool.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/04/bidens-polling-numbers-are-even-worse-than-they-appear/
www.headstonesband.com
the republicans are good at running on things like this, but when they get power they fuck it all up because they cannot govern. dems get power and they either a. can't get their own people in line to pass anything meaningful or b. always compromise with the minority party. as if the minority party will ever allow the dems to pass their agenda.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."