#46 President Joe Biden

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,693
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    you do realize millions upon millions of the rock's fans, um, I mean, people, don't have those options, right? to lift people out of poverty, you have to lend them a hand, not a boulder attached to their ankle. high interest student loans are the ONLY way for a high percentage of people to get an education and attempt to get out of poverty/low income. 
    1993 Gimli Sun/Mudfest
    2003 Fargo
    2005 Winnipeg
    2011 Winnipeg
    2014 St. Paul




  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 34,884
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    you do realize millions upon millions of the rock's fans, um, I mean, people, don't have those options, right? to lift people out of poverty, you have to lend them a hand, not a boulder attached to their ankle. high interest student loans are the ONLY way for a high percentage of people to get an education and attempt to get out of poverty/low income. 

    it becomes indentured servitude.....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    Many people have to take out loans and work several jobs just to go to community college.  Many also had zero financial education.  I think you are viewing student loans as something frivolous.  Not everyone had parents that were willing or could afford to go without to help with school, on top of that the fact that these loans are supposed to help people get an education and better themselves, but instead continually grow and keep people saddled with lifetime debt while making a profit for the government is fucked up.  I don't know how many time I have to say this.   I took out 15k for trade school.  have been paying for almost 10 years now only got below 10k because of the interest rate freeze.  Now that payments and interest are back up if I continue making my payments I will pay 15k over the next 10 years to pay the damn thing off.     All the while my government provided student loan has changed services so many times there is no way to accurately figure out how much I have already paid on my 15K, however I am sure it is well over 20k at this point.  The system is fucked and these people aren't getting free money.  It's trying to fix a broken system.  If these were the terms to get into Trump U half of the people complaining about taking responsibility would be talking about how people got screwed. 
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 5,983
    LMFAO!

    Build that wall!!!

    Trump right again. 


    Genius party

    genius minds 

    genius ideas

    why is America screwed? 45% of the country are pure genius




  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,693
    my parents were not poor. my younger years, finances were quite lean (knee patches, anyone?) they paid my first year of university. after that, I got free room and board if I went to school. I still had to take out a $10K loan for what turned out to be a complete fucking waste of 10 months for one of those "quick turnaround" colleges. The interest was insane. Eventually my dad co signed a bank loan for me to be able to pay it off quicker. But it still took me years. I can't simple imagine the hundreds of thousands of dollars people have to take out nowadays while surviving on Mr Noodles and coffee for 4-7 years, then a debt higher than their yearly salary. It's like Squid Game, but with money. 1 out of 100 people make it out. 
    1993 Gimli Sun/Mudfest
    2003 Fargo
    2005 Winnipeg
    2011 Winnipeg
    2014 St. Paul




  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,838
    static111 said:
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    Many people have to take out loans and work several jobs just to go to community college.  Many also had zero financial education.  I think you are viewing student loans as something frivolous.  Not everyone had parents that were willing or could afford to go without to help with school, on top of that the fact that these loans are supposed to help people get an education and better themselves, but instead continually grow and keep people saddled with lifetime debt while making a profit for the government is fucked up.  I don't know how many time I have to say this.   I took out 15k for trade school.  have been paying for almost 10 years now only got below 10k because of the interest rate freeze.  Now that payments and interest are back up if I continue making my payments I will pay 15k over the next 10 years to pay the damn thing off.     All the while my government provided student loan has changed services so many times there is no way to accurately figure out how much I have already paid on my 15K, however I am sure it is well over 20k at this point.  The system is fucked and these people aren't getting free money.  It's trying to fix a broken system.  If these were the terms to get into Trump U half of the people complaining about taking responsibility would be talking about how people got screwed. 
    I've told this story before somewhere on here....

    I remember visiting my daughter at college several years ago and her roommate was having an issue paying rent because her student loan had not come through yet. These kids were borrowing $25K/year to go to a state school. Roughly $12K tuition and $13K room and board. Insane.

    I've also run into people that lived at home, worked full time, and paid their own way. Very smart.

    Some people just aren't that smart. These loans were predatory.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

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    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 21,994
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    you do realize millions upon millions of the rock's fans, um, I mean, people, don't have those options, right? to lift people out of poverty, you have to lend them a hand, not a boulder attached to their ankle. high interest student loans are the ONLY way for a high percentage of people to get an education and attempt to get out of poverty/low income. 
    Plus you cannot discharge student loan debt through bankruptcy, so those people are stuck with that debt forever.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,461
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    you do realize millions upon millions of the rock's fans, um, I mean, people, don't have those options, right? to lift people out of poverty, you have to lend them a hand, not a boulder attached to their ankle. high interest student loans are the ONLY way for a high percentage of people to get an education and attempt to get out of poverty/low income. 
    Plus you cannot discharge student loan debt through bankruptcy, so those people are stuck with that debt forever.
    But again,  those with a college degree have the highest earning power and historically the lowest unemployment.  So while I agree they are painful,  I'm not sure I would go so far as call them predatory.  The rates certainly are not. 
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    static111 said:
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    Many people have to take out loans and work several jobs just to go to community college.  Many also had zero financial education.  I think you are viewing student loans as something frivolous.  Not everyone had parents that were willing or could afford to go without to help with school, on top of that the fact that these loans are supposed to help people get an education and better themselves, but instead continually grow and keep people saddled with lifetime debt while making a profit for the government is fucked up.  I don't know how many time I have to say this.   I took out 15k for trade school.  have been paying for almost 10 years now only got below 10k because of the interest rate freeze.  Now that payments and interest are back up if I continue making my payments I will pay 15k over the next 10 years to pay the damn thing off.     All the while my government provided student loan has changed services so many times there is no way to accurately figure out how much I have already paid on my 15K, however I am sure it is well over 20k at this point.  The system is fucked and these people aren't getting free money.  It's trying to fix a broken system.  If these were the terms to get into Trump U half of the people complaining about taking responsibility would be talking about how people got screwed. 
    I've told this story before somewhere on here....

    I remember visiting my daughter at college several years ago and her roommate was having an issue paying rent because her student loan had not come through yet. These kids were borrowing $25K/year to go to a state school. Roughly $12K tuition and $13K room and board. Insane.

    I've also run into people that lived at home, worked full time, and paid their own way. Very smart.

    Some people just aren't that smart. These loans were predatory.
    Not everyone lives close enough to a good school to  live at home, or has a home they are welcome in, but I see your point, If you live in a nice city with good schools and have supportive parents/family that can assist you financially and with room and board and you are wasting student loan money on rent that is not a good decision.  I don't think that situation is the norm.  Or if it is I have been surrounded by way too many people with similar bad upbringings that it has skewed my worldview.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 5,983
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?


    These are good questions but not the ones that identify the problem and lead us to a solution. The US has a unique problem regarding cost of college that the remainder of the planet simply does not have. As long as Americans believe that college costs are determined by some sort of “free market” which is entirely false, we are stuck with problems the rest of the world does not endure.







    The column on the right is average annual cost per country. 

    Of course the USA is out of line with the rest of the world. Why does no one use their voice to protest this?

    why do we assume 18yo kids can effect change when they are stuck in a system that favors gouging and punishment for those who can’t get a competitive education?

    the correct question is why are Americans being gouged?

    do we seriously believe international universities, such as Oxford, are inferior to the schools charging the average US cost?

    “ A UK student's annual course fees are £9,250 for 2024-25. For more details, go to our fees pages”
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    you do realize millions upon millions of the rock's fans, um, I mean, people, don't have those options, right? to lift people out of poverty, you have to lend them a hand, not a boulder attached to their ankle. high interest student loans are the ONLY way for a high percentage of people to get an education and attempt to get out of poverty/low income. 
    6.75% apr federal loans subsidized and unsubsidized,  I had no idea what that meant haha, I do now.  Wasn't taught in school or by my financially impaired parents, I just knew the only way for me to afford to go to school and better my financial situation while working 3 jobs was taking out a loan.  Stupid me.  I have no problem making my payments, but the way these loans are structured is so fucked.  Sometimes I think I would have been better off working nights in a bar and days doing construction for the rest of my life instead of getting the fucking unkillable loan.

    Anyway this is one of the reasons I voted for Biden and even though I doubt any of the people in my or a similar situation will get bailed out I am very happy for all of the others that are getting help and bear them no ill will.  I'm sure My debt will eventually be paid off before any kind of assistance is offered to someone like me but I say keep helping out other citizens that have been screwed by a fucked up system, and while you're at it fix the damn loan system.  These things shouldn't be revenue generators for servicers and the govt, they should be to help citizens get an education and raise the education of the country.  Maybe try setting it up so that you only pay the principle of the loan plus a small monthly servicing fee that covers the cost of computers transferring funds back and forth, with no interest accruing.

    Hooray Biden for keeping promises I say, still more work to do, but you'll continue getting votes from me if you keep delivering help to people who need it.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • sheckyshecky San Francisco Posts: 1,344
    LMFAO!

    Build that wall!!!

    Trump right again. 

  • sheckyshecky San Francisco Posts: 1,344
    edited October 2023
    .
    Post edited by shecky on
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,842
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    you do realize millions upon millions of the rock's fans, um, I mean, people, don't have those options, right? to lift people out of poverty, you have to lend them a hand, not a boulder attached to their ankle. high interest student loans are the ONLY way for a high percentage of people to get an education and attempt to get out of poverty/low income. 
    That's not really true. We have subsidized higher ed. Its community college.
    Community college is easier to get into than a 4 year school. they are all over the country. Often in rural areas and more accessible than many 4 years. I did my first year there, it cost me $12 per unit.  Got my first year of college out of the way for about $300. I looked it up a few months ago when I was having a similar conversation, and the cost hasn't gone up much.
    I just find it hard to sympathize with someone's debt who chose to go to a 4 year school and never considered other options such as a 2 year  first, then transfer. There are 2 year schools all over. But so few even consider it. They go straight to a 4 year, then complain about the cost.
    Pick a school that suits your needs and within your budget. If cost is a factor, go to community college first. You get the same diploma in the end. 
    And that's just one example. There are other ways to avoid going into massive debt for school. But if you're set on a specific school and insist on spending all 4 years there and need to take out loans to make it happen, then yes it gets very expensive. 

  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,842
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    The government takes care of stupid all the time. Do you stand outside bankruptcy courts and chastise everyone going in and out?
    No. And I'm not standing outside chastising anyone over loan forgiveness either. Just saying why I disagree with it That has been a huge draw for many joining the military. 
    File bankruptcy and there are some consequences and sometimes assets taken. So it's not really the same thing, no one is taking away diplomas for loan forgiveness. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,842
    static111 said:
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    Many people have to take out loans and work several jobs just to go to community college.  Many also had zero financial education.  I think you are viewing student loans as something frivolous.  Not everyone had parents that were willing or could afford to go without to help with school, on top of that the fact that these loans are supposed to help people get an education and better themselves, but instead continually grow and keep people saddled with lifetime debt while making a profit for the government is fucked up.  I don't know how many time I have to say this.   I took out 15k for trade school.  have been paying for almost 10 years now only got below 10k because of the interest rate freeze.  Now that payments and interest are back up if I continue making my payments I will pay 15k over the next 10 years to pay the damn thing off.     All the while my government provided student loan has changed services so many times there is no way to accurately figure out how much I have already paid on my 15K, however I am sure it is well over 20k at this point.  The system is fucked and these people aren't getting free money.  It's trying to fix a broken system.  If these were the terms to get into Trump U half of the people complaining about taking responsibility would be talking about how people got screwed. 
    I've told this story before somewhere on here....

    I remember visiting my daughter at college several years ago and her roommate was having an issue paying rent because her student loan had not come through yet. These kids were borrowing $25K/year to go to a state school. Roughly $12K tuition and $13K room and board. Insane.

    I've also run into people that lived at home, worked full time, and paid their own way. Very smart.

    Some people just aren't that smart. These loans were predatory.
    Room and board is a joke. It's cheaper to live off campus a lot of the time, and much better conditions.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,461
    mace1229 said:
    static111 said:
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    Many people have to take out loans and work several jobs just to go to community college.  Many also had zero financial education.  I think you are viewing student loans as something frivolous.  Not everyone had parents that were willing or could afford to go without to help with school, on top of that the fact that these loans are supposed to help people get an education and better themselves, but instead continually grow and keep people saddled with lifetime debt while making a profit for the government is fucked up.  I don't know how many time I have to say this.   I took out 15k for trade school.  have been paying for almost 10 years now only got below 10k because of the interest rate freeze.  Now that payments and interest are back up if I continue making my payments I will pay 15k over the next 10 years to pay the damn thing off.     All the while my government provided student loan has changed services so many times there is no way to accurately figure out how much I have already paid on my 15K, however I am sure it is well over 20k at this point.  The system is fucked and these people aren't getting free money.  It's trying to fix a broken system.  If these were the terms to get into Trump U half of the people complaining about taking responsibility would be talking about how people got screwed. 
    I've told this story before somewhere on here....

    I remember visiting my daughter at college several years ago and her roommate was having an issue paying rent because her student loan had not come through yet. These kids were borrowing $25K/year to go to a state school. Roughly $12K tuition and $13K room and board. Insane.

    I've also run into people that lived at home, worked full time, and paid their own way. Very smart.

    Some people just aren't that smart. These loans were predatory.
    Room and board is a joke. It's cheaper to live off campus a lot of the time, and much better conditions.
    I wish that were true.  My son's off campus bills are brutal.  Plus you have to take 12 month leases.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,693
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    you do realize millions upon millions of the rock's fans, um, I mean, people, don't have those options, right? to lift people out of poverty, you have to lend them a hand, not a boulder attached to their ankle. high interest student loans are the ONLY way for a high percentage of people to get an education and attempt to get out of poverty/low income. 
    That's not really true. We have subsidized higher ed. Its community college.
    Community college is easier to get into than a 4 year school. they are all over the country. Often in rural areas and more accessible than many 4 years. I did my first year there, it cost me $12 per unit.  Got my first year of college out of the way for about $300. I looked it up a few months ago when I was having a similar conversation, and the cost hasn't gone up much.
    I just find it hard to sympathize with someone's debt who chose to go to a 4 year school and never considered other options such as a 2 year  first, then transfer. There are 2 year schools all over. But so few even consider it. They go straight to a 4 year, then complain about the cost.
    Pick a school that suits your needs and within your budget. If cost is a factor, go to community college first. You get the same diploma in the end. 
    And that's just one example. There are other ways to avoid going into massive debt for school. But if you're set on a specific school and insist on spending all 4 years there and need to take out loans to make it happen, then yes it gets very expensive. 

    first year of college for $300? 

    so you want people to waste time in a 2 or 4 year college for a degree they have no interest in, just so they can get a low paying job so eventually they can afford to go to university? and start a family at what, 45 years old? that means the system is broken. 
    1993 Gimli Sun/Mudfest
    2003 Fargo
    2005 Winnipeg
    2011 Winnipeg
    2014 St. Paul




  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,461
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    So adults who agreed to take out a loan, went to the school of their choice, are getting free money now?
    What about families that went without so their kids wouldn't be in debt?
    What about those who chose a school for financials reasons to save money?
    What about those who joined the military to cover the cost?
    What about those who picked a different route so they wouldn't be in debt?
    When do they get their free money?
    When society moves forward, it's always the older generation complaining and asking, what about me, even though they were once the group who also benefitted from some change the previous generation didn't have. They always conveniently forgot about their special privileges. Move on. I didn't get paternity leave, but now the state allows men paid leave for 6 weeks. Sucks I didn't get that benefit, but I'm glad it's been changed for future parents. 
    I don't see it as moving forward. It was a decision they made. If I paid too much for a car and decide now the payments are tough, should I get bailed out? I see no difference.
    You can make a choice about where to go, going to Jr college first, living at home, etc. College really doesn't have to be expensive. If you chose to make it expense, that's fine. But it was still a decision you made to take out loans so you can have that dorm experience in a 4 year college.
    Others can get the same degree by going to a 2 year college first, not living in a dorm, and spending a small fraction. 
    you do realize millions upon millions of the rock's fans, um, I mean, people, don't have those options, right? to lift people out of poverty, you have to lend them a hand, not a boulder attached to their ankle. high interest student loans are the ONLY way for a high percentage of people to get an education and attempt to get out of poverty/low income. 
    That's not really true. We have subsidized higher ed. Its community college.
    Community college is easier to get into than a 4 year school. they are all over the country. Often in rural areas and more accessible than many 4 years. I did my first year there, it cost me $12 per unit.  Got my first year of college out of the way for about $300. I looked it up a few months ago when I was having a similar conversation, and the cost hasn't gone up much.
    I just find it hard to sympathize with someone's debt who chose to go to a 4 year school and never considered other options such as a 2 year  first, then transfer. There are 2 year schools all over. But so few even consider it. They go straight to a 4 year, then complain about the cost.
    Pick a school that suits your needs and within your budget. If cost is a factor, go to community college first. You get the same diploma in the end. 
    And that's just one example. There are other ways to avoid going into massive debt for school. But if you're set on a specific school and insist on spending all 4 years there and need to take out loans to make it happen, then yes it gets very expensive. 

    What's a "unit"?


  • Some states have made two year community colleges free. Whaaaaa, they didn’t do it when I went to college. Could have gotten all my required courses out of the way and saved $8K. Whaaaaaaa, make those freeloaders pay something!

    College tuition cost increases can be directly related to the federal and state governments cutting aid to them, beginning with the Raygun administration, particularly Pell Grants and the privatization of student loans. And I’d call 8%-9% interest rates when prime was 4%-5% predatory, higher if you had poor credit, no co-signer and/or a lack of assets. Having an educated and critical thinking populace is bad politics when your politics suck.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,461
    Some states have made two year community colleges free. Whaaaaa, they didn’t do it when I went to college. Could have gotten all my required courses out of the way and saved $8K. Whaaaaaaa, make those freeloaders pay something!

    College tuition cost increases can be directly related to the federal and state governments cutting aid to them, beginning with the Raygun administration, particularly Pell Grants and the privatization of student loans. And I’d call 8%-9% interest rates when prime was 4%-5% predatory, higher if you had poor credit, no co-signer and/or a lack of assets. Having an educated and critical thinking populace is bad politics when your politics suck.
    You're conflating two things.  Private student loans are not part of forgiveness,  only federal.  That's why I say the rates are fair,  because they are linked to the discount rate. I believe it's still less than 5% for this year. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,135
    edited October 2023
    mrussel1 said:
    Some states have made two year community colleges free. Whaaaaa, they didn’t do it when I went to college. Could have gotten all my required courses out of the way and saved $8K. Whaaaaaaa, make those freeloaders pay something!

    College tuition cost increases can be directly related to the federal and state governments cutting aid to them, beginning with the Raygun administration, particularly Pell Grants and the privatization of student loans. And I’d call 8%-9% interest rates when prime was 4%-5% predatory, higher if you had poor credit, no co-signer and/or a lack of assets. Having an educated and critical thinking populace is bad politics when your politics suck.
    You're conflating two things.  Private student loans are not part of forgiveness,  only federal.  That's why I say the rates are fair,  because they are linked to the discount rate. I believe it's still less than 5% for this year. 
    When the government got out of the student loan business and privatized it, the interest rates were no longer as low as they had been. That was one of the raging debates at the time. There are still government loan programs but most people are income earned out, via parent income tax return data for previous two years. Which puts you in the private loan market with higher interest rates.
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,461
    mrussel1 said:
    Some states have made two year community colleges free. Whaaaaa, they didn’t do it when I went to college. Could have gotten all my required courses out of the way and saved $8K. Whaaaaaaa, make those freeloaders pay something!

    College tuition cost increases can be directly related to the federal and state governments cutting aid to them, beginning with the Raygun administration, particularly Pell Grants and the privatization of student loans. And I’d call 8%-9% interest rates when prime was 4%-5% predatory, higher if you had poor credit, no co-signer and/or a lack of assets. Having an educated and critical thinking populace is bad politics when your politics suck.
    You're conflating two things.  Private student loans are not part of forgiveness,  only federal.  That's why I say the rates are fair,  because they are linked to the discount rate. I believe it's still less than 5% for this year. 
    When the government got out of the student loan business and privatized it, the interest rates were no longer as low as they had been. That was one of the raging debates at the time. There are still government loan programs but most people are income earned out, via parent income tax return data for previous two years. Which puts you in the private loan market with higher interest rates.
    All true,  but still not part of the Biden program.  I would likely argue that the rates,  by and large,  are not predatory.  Particularity the ones from Discover,  SoFi, Citi, etc. Since they are not subsidized,, they have to match the risk profile.  And they are not a public service,  they are for profit.  So they should be several points higher than subsidized. 
  • And prior to 2013, federal student loans were a fixed interest rate. Now they adjust annually. Lots of information here. It’s a complicated issue with several factors contributing to the issue. One that other nations don’t seem to have the same issues with, as pointed out by another poster. USA! USA! USA! We’re number 1! We’re number 1! We’re number 1!

    https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-interest-rate
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,461
    And prior to 2013, federal student loans were a fixed interest rate. Now they adjust annually. Lots of information here. It’s a complicated issue with several factors contributing to the issue. One that other nations don’t seem to have the same issues with, as pointed out by another poster. USA! USA! USA! We’re number 1! We’re number 1! We’re number 1!

    https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-interest-rate
    They should adjust annually since the cost to borrow is tied to the Fed funds rate. 

    To me, the govt should not be trying to make money on these loans so the rate should be the cost to borrow plus the servicing overhead.  It's not designed to be an entitlement.  In other words,  ideally it's break even.  But you have to keep these out of BK. If you could discharge them,  then you'd be a fool not to try.  
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    mrussel1 said:
    And prior to 2013, federal student loans were a fixed interest rate. Now they adjust annually. Lots of information here. It’s a complicated issue with several factors contributing to the issue. One that other nations don’t seem to have the same issues with, as pointed out by another poster. USA! USA! USA! We’re number 1! We’re number 1! We’re number 1!

    https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-interest-rate
    They should adjust annually since the cost to borrow is tied to the Fed funds rate. 

    To me, the govt should not be trying to make money on these loans so the rate should be the cost to borrow plus the servicing overhead.  It's not designed to be an entitlement.  In other words,  ideally it's break even.  But you have to keep these out of BK. If you could discharge them,  then you'd be a fool not to try.  
    This is exactly what I think, but I would go one step further and say once that issue is addressed, try to move to a European model where people don't have to borrow a shit ton of money in the first place.  If we keep doing it the same way and emphasizing that people need to spend thousands of dollars on a college education in order to succeed in American society the situation will just repeat itself at some point in the future.

    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,461
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    And prior to 2013, federal student loans were a fixed interest rate. Now they adjust annually. Lots of information here. It’s a complicated issue with several factors contributing to the issue. One that other nations don’t seem to have the same issues with, as pointed out by another poster. USA! USA! USA! We’re number 1! We’re number 1! We’re number 1!

    https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-interest-rate
    They should adjust annually since the cost to borrow is tied to the Fed funds rate. 

    To me, the govt should not be trying to make money on these loans so the rate should be the cost to borrow plus the servicing overhead.  It's not designed to be an entitlement.  In other words,  ideally it's break even.  But you have to keep these out of BK. If you could discharge them,  then you'd be a fool not to try.  
    This is exactly what I think, but I would go one step further and say once that issue is addressed, try to move to a European model where people don't have to borrow a shit ton of money in the first place.  If we keep doing it the same way and emphasizing that people need to spend thousands of dollars on a college education in order to succeed in American society the situation will just repeat itself at some point in the future.

    There's a lot to the cost.  I read some research that boiled it down to a few key factors:

    1. Loss of state funding from the legislatures over time. 

    2. A good chunk of students are highly disadvantaged and are receiving highly discounted or no tuition.  That drives up the cost of "full tuition" students. 

    3. The growth of amenities on campus.  Colleges used to be spartan environments but not anyone.  The gyms, restaurants,  robots running food to dorms, this all adds to the tuition.  Universities have been in an arms race over lifestyle for a few decades now and the students pay for it. 

    I don't know if there's an easy answer but I'm fairly certain my kids will be gone before the cost curve bends down.  I have one finished,  one that is a senior in college and my last is a HS sophomore . 
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    And prior to 2013, federal student loans were a fixed interest rate. Now they adjust annually. Lots of information here. It’s a complicated issue with several factors contributing to the issue. One that other nations don’t seem to have the same issues with, as pointed out by another poster. USA! USA! USA! We’re number 1! We’re number 1! We’re number 1!

    https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-interest-rate
    They should adjust annually since the cost to borrow is tied to the Fed funds rate. 

    To me, the govt should not be trying to make money on these loans so the rate should be the cost to borrow plus the servicing overhead.  It's not designed to be an entitlement.  In other words,  ideally it's break even.  But you have to keep these out of BK. If you could discharge them,  then you'd be a fool not to try.  
    This is exactly what I think, but I would go one step further and say once that issue is addressed, try to move to a European model where people don't have to borrow a shit ton of money in the first place.  If we keep doing it the same way and emphasizing that people need to spend thousands of dollars on a college education in order to succeed in American society the situation will just repeat itself at some point in the future.

    There's a lot to the cost.  I read some research that boiled it down to a few key factors:

    1. Loss of state funding from the legislatures over time. 

    2. A good chunk of students are highly disadvantaged and are receiving highly discounted or no tuition.  That drives up the cost of "full tuition" students. 

    3. The growth of amenities on campus.  Colleges used to be spartan environments but not anyone.  The gyms, restaurants,  robots running food to dorms, this all adds to the tuition.  Universities have been in an arms race over lifestyle for a few decades now and the students pay for it. 

    I don't know if there's an easy answer but I'm fairly certain my kids will be gone before the cost curve bends down.  I have one finished,  one that is a senior in college and my last is a HS sophomore . 

    I just hope my wife and i will have our loans paid off before our daughter presumably starts college in 6 years.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,034
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Some states have made two year community colleges free. Whaaaaa, they didn’t do it when I went to college. Could have gotten all my required courses out of the way and saved $8K. Whaaaaaaa, make those freeloaders pay something!

    College tuition cost increases can be directly related to the federal and state governments cutting aid to them, beginning with the Raygun administration, particularly Pell Grants and the privatization of student loans. And I’d call 8%-9% interest rates when prime was 4%-5% predatory, higher if you had poor credit, no co-signer and/or a lack of assets. Having an educated and critical thinking populace is bad politics when your politics suck.
    You're conflating two things.  Private student loans are not part of forgiveness,  only federal.  That's why I say the rates are fair,  because they are linked to the discount rate. I believe it's still less than 5% for this year. 
    When the government got out of the student loan business and privatized it, the interest rates were no longer as low as they had been. That was one of the raging debates at the time. There are still government loan programs but most people are income earned out, via parent income tax return data for previous two years. Which puts you in the private loan market with higher interest rates.
    All true,  but still not part of the Biden program.  I would likely argue that the rates,  by and large,  are not predatory.  Particularity the ones from Discover,  SoFi, Citi, etc. Since they are not subsidized,, they have to match the risk profile.  And they are not a public service,  they are for profit.  So they should be several points higher than subsidized. 
    I think your declared major should play into the risk profile ;)
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  • mrussel1 said:
    And prior to 2013, federal student loans were a fixed interest rate. Now they adjust annually. Lots of information here. It’s a complicated issue with several factors contributing to the issue. One that other nations don’t seem to have the same issues with, as pointed out by another poster. USA! USA! USA! We’re number 1! We’re number 1! We’re number 1!

    https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-interest-rate
    They should adjust annually since the cost to borrow is tied to the Fed funds rate. 

    To me, the govt should not be trying to make money on these loans so the rate should be the cost to borrow plus the servicing overhead.  It's not designed to be an entitlement.  In other words,  ideally it's break even.  But you have to keep these out of BK. If you could discharge them,  then you'd be a fool not to try.  
    But they didn’t prior to 2013. I thought it was ridiculous that I was paying a higher interest rate on my student loans than I was on my mortgage. And at the time, I thought the rate should be the fed rate to banks plus a % for administrative processing and nothing more. My loans went from federal to private, consolidated from 4 to 2 but with a fixed interest rate. The spread was 4-5%. Private corporations made profits on my loans. Irks me to this day but I don’t begrudge those having their debt cancelled.
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