#46 President Joe Biden
Comments
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I think they have already.mrussel1 said:
Cannon would not be the trial judge. Plus, one should still expect the DOJ to appeal the special master ruling.Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
If this goes to Scotus all bets are off.
How the fuck anyone appointed by Trump can preside over his case is beyond me. Banana Republic type stuff.0 -
True that.dignin said:
I think they have already.mrussel1 said:
Cannon would not be the trial judge. Plus, one should still expect the DOJ to appeal the special master ruling.Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
If this goes to Scotus all bets are off.
How the fuck anyone appointed by Trump can preside over his case is beyond me. Banana Republic type stuff.0 -
I don't know. A judge should be impartial. I'm not sure why a judge, after receiving a lifetime appointment, would feel an allegiance to an ex president. Hundreds of federal judges and magistrates are appointed every term. To say that the SCOTUS judges that were appointed by Trump can't hear a case about Trump would not work. If the DOJ is the plaintiff, does that mean Kentaji Brown Jackson can't hear is because she's biased toward the Biden DOJ? Where does that mindset end?dignin said:
I think they have already.mrussel1 said:
Cannon would not be the trial judge. Plus, one should still expect the DOJ to appeal the special master ruling.Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
If this goes to Scotus all bets are off.
How the fuck anyone appointed by Trump can preside over his case is beyond me. Banana Republic type stuff.
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Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.It could be violent but it does not have to be in order for the rights to assume control of this federation.0 -
mrussel1 said:
I don't know. A judge should be impartial. I'm not sure why a judge, after receiving a lifetime appointment, would feel an allegiance to an ex president. Hundreds of federal judges and magistrates are appointed every term. To say that the SCOTUS judges that were appointed by Trump can't hear a case about Trump would not work. If the DOJ is the plaintiff, does that mean Kentaji Brown Jackson can't hear is because she's biased toward the Biden DOJ? Where does that mindset end?dignin said:
I think they have already.mrussel1 said:
Cannon would not be the trial judge. Plus, one should still expect the DOJ to appeal the special master ruling.Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
If this goes to Scotus all bets are off.
How the fuck anyone appointed by Trump can preside over his case is beyond me. Banana Republic type stuff.In Cannon’s mind, sure, I bet she believes she is impartial, but does that really matter? We all believe we all believe, and she certainly believes in trump. She is literally, without bothering to cite precedent or constitutional reference, making shit up. Other judges start taking cues, look out, this will just be the beginning. And the recent scotus aggressions certainly are discomforting.
I am not a lawyer but have watched plenty on the tele this week say what she did is unprecedented. And to my earlier point, imo it doesn’t matter that she wouldn’t be the trial judge. She made a bold ruling, stood up to a powerfully worded filing from the DOJ specifically calling her out with explanations and legal precedent and references, and she did not blink. And is now significantly slowing down a criminal investigation. I bet every defendant in America would like that treatment, and every conservative judge is taking notice.0 -
It’s amazing to me what folks will tolerate because they have “theirs.” If there isn’t blood in the streets, everything is fine.
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How is Jan 6 proof of that? Not 1 shot was fired by a rioter from what I heard. So I don't see the jump to saying that's proof that millions are just trigger happy crazies when not one of them pulled a trigger that day.Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.
I think Jan 6 was an illegal riot, that they had no right to breach the capitol like that. But there just isn't any evidence to say they are all gun crazy trigger happy people. I also believe they weren't trying to over take anything, it was too poorly organized and executed. They just wanted to stir up thing and create chaos, which they did. You can't take over a government by acting crazy inside a capitol.0 -
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It’s about entitlement. They thought they would be allowed to do that first of all, and secondly they thought that was their right to do that.mace1229 said:
How is Jan 6 proof of that? Not 1 shot was fired by a rioter from what I heard. So I don't see the jump to saying that's proof that millions are just trigger happy crazies when not one of them pulled a trigger that day.Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.
I think Jan 6 was an illegal riot, that they had no right to breach the capitol like that. But there just isn't any evidence to say they are all gun crazy trigger happy people. I also believe they weren't trying to over take anything, it was too poorly organized and executed. They just wanted to stir up thing and create chaos, which they did. You can't take over a government by acting crazy inside a capitol.
guns or not that’s a disturbing mentality. Armed standoffs with the government based on no justification has been going on for years. There are many examples of that or blowing up federal buildings, trying to kidnap a sitting governor.The people doing all that have millions of supporters. Storming the capital are those same like minded types of people.
all the false comparisons to the chaos of the BLM protests which did get out of hand in many instances, not one of those attempted to overthrow the government. Preventing a certification of a vote is a coup attempt. “ a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.” it wasn’t successful but that doesn’t change what it was
not all riots are the same. Rioting on Main Street and rioting inside congress are vastly different as were the goals
jan 6 rioters would do it all again happily. Next time they will just be angrier if they lose again
violence is inevitable when a bunch of Karen’s don’t get their wayPost edited by Cropduster-80 on0 -
They’re all too ignorant to actually plan a coup let alone actually accomplish a takeover.mace1229 said:
How is Jan 6 proof of that? Not 1 shot was fired by a rioter from what I heard. So I don't see the jump to saying that's proof that millions are just trigger happy crazies when not one of them pulled a trigger that day.Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.
I think Jan 6 was an illegal riot, that they had no right to breach the capitol like that. But there just isn't any evidence to say they are all gun crazy trigger happy people. I also believe they weren't trying to over take anything, it was too poorly organized and executed. They just wanted to stir up thing and create chaos, which they did. You can't take over a government by acting crazy inside a capitol.It’s the quiet planners you have to watch out for0 -
Yup... just because the attempt to stop congress from certifying the results of the election was poorly organized and executed doesn't mean it wasn't an attempt to stop congress from certifying the results of the election.Cropduster-80 said:
It’s about entitlement. They thought they would be allowed to do that first of all, and secondly they thought that was their right to do that.mace1229 said:
How is Jan 6 proof of that? Not 1 shot was fired by a rioter from what I heard. So I don't see the jump to saying that's proof that millions are just trigger happy crazies when not one of them pulled a trigger that day.Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.
I think Jan 6 was an illegal riot, that they had no right to breach the capitol like that. But there just isn't any evidence to say they are all gun crazy trigger happy people. I also believe they weren't trying to over take anything, it was too poorly organized and executed. They just wanted to stir up thing and create chaos, which they did. You can't take over a government by acting crazy inside a capitol.
guns or not that’s a disturbing mentality. Armed standoffs with the government based on no justification has been going on for years. There are many examples of that or blowing up federal buildings. The people doing all that have millions of supporters. Storming the capital was part of that
all the false comparisons to the chaos of the BLM protests which did get out of hand in many instances, not one of those attempted to overthrow the government. Preventing a certification of a vote is a coup attempt. “ a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.” it wasn’t successful but that doesn’t change what it was
jan 6 rioters would do it all again happily
The reason behind those rubes storming the Capitol isn't up for debate. They were there to stop the certification of the 2020 election results because their cult leader told them to do so.0 -
I’m not disagreeing, I’m just saying they were too stupid to accomplish it for those who believed it was a coup attempt. It takes a whole lotta smarts to accomplish something like that, more than just three months of planning, total military support, police support, lots of money, and much more.Merkin Baller said:
Yup... just because the attempt to stop congress from certifying the results of the election was poorly organized and executed doesn't mean it wasn't an attempt to stop congress from certifying the results of the election.Cropduster-80 said:
It’s about entitlement. They thought they would be allowed to do that first of all, and secondly they thought that was their right to do that.mace1229 said:
How is Jan 6 proof of that? Not 1 shot was fired by a rioter from what I heard. So I don't see the jump to saying that's proof that millions are just trigger happy crazies when not one of them pulled a trigger that day.Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.
I think Jan 6 was an illegal riot, that they had no right to breach the capitol like that. But there just isn't any evidence to say they are all gun crazy trigger happy people. I also believe they weren't trying to over take anything, it was too poorly organized and executed. They just wanted to stir up thing and create chaos, which they did. You can't take over a government by acting crazy inside a capitol.
guns or not that’s a disturbing mentality. Armed standoffs with the government based on no justification has been going on for years. There are many examples of that or blowing up federal buildings. The people doing all that have millions of supporters. Storming the capital was part of that
all the false comparisons to the chaos of the BLM protests which did get out of hand in many instances, not one of those attempted to overthrow the government. Preventing a certification of a vote is a coup attempt. “ a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.” it wasn’t successful but that doesn’t change what it was
jan 6 rioters would do it all again happily
The reason behind those rubes storming the Capitol isn't up for debate. They were there to stop the certification of the 2020 election results because their cult leader told them to do so.
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Not so sure, if martial law would have been declared which Trump probably would have done if he thought the military would do it then that chaos is all the cover you need for the coup to be successful.cblock4life said:
They’re all too ignorant to actually plan a coup let alone actually accomplish a takeover.mace1229 said:
How is Jan 6 proof of that? Not 1 shot was fired by a rioter from what I heard. So I don't see the jump to saying that's proof that millions are just trigger happy crazies when not one of them pulled a trigger that day.Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.
I think Jan 6 was an illegal riot, that they had no right to breach the capitol like that. But there just isn't any evidence to say they are all gun crazy trigger happy people. I also believe they weren't trying to over take anything, it was too poorly organized and executed. They just wanted to stir up thing and create chaos, which they did. You can't take over a government by acting crazy inside a capitol.It’s the quiet planners you have to watch out for
I think the joint chiefs were having none of that, had they gone along who knows
When you can trigger military control on US soil, the commander in chief has unlimited power
Post edited by Cropduster-80 on0 -
cblock4life said:
I’m not disagreeing, I’m just saying they were too stupid to accomplish it for those who believed it was a coup attempt. It takes a whole lotta smarts to accomplish something like that, more than just three months of planning, total military support, police support, lots of money, and much more.Merkin Baller said:
Yup... just because the attempt to stop congress from certifying the results of the election was poorly organized and executed doesn't mean it wasn't an attempt to stop congress from certifying the results of the election.Cropduster-80 said:
It’s about entitlement. They thought they would be allowed to do that first of all, and secondly they thought that was their right to do that.mace1229 said:
How is Jan 6 proof of that? Not 1 shot was fired by a rioter from what I heard. So I don't see the jump to saying that's proof that millions are just trigger happy crazies when not one of them pulled a trigger that day.Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.
I think Jan 6 was an illegal riot, that they had no right to breach the capitol like that. But there just isn't any evidence to say they are all gun crazy trigger happy people. I also believe they weren't trying to over take anything, it was too poorly organized and executed. They just wanted to stir up thing and create chaos, which they did. You can't take over a government by acting crazy inside a capitol.
guns or not that’s a disturbing mentality. Armed standoffs with the government based on no justification has been going on for years. There are many examples of that or blowing up federal buildings. The people doing all that have millions of supporters. Storming the capital was part of that
all the false comparisons to the chaos of the BLM protests which did get out of hand in many instances, not one of those attempted to overthrow the government. Preventing a certification of a vote is a coup attempt. “ a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.” it wasn’t successful but that doesn’t change what it was
jan 6 rioters would do it all again happily
The reason behind those rubes storming the Capitol isn't up for debate. They were there to stop the certification of the 2020 election results because their cult leader told them to do so.
I'm not arguing as to how well thought out the plan was, I'm saying the reasoning behind the storming of the Capitol isn't up for debate.
For the record though, some people were more prepared and had a bigger plan in mind than others:
https://apnews.com/article/stewart-rhodes-arrested-oath-keepers-jan-6-insurrection-70019e1007132e8df786aaf77215a110
0 -
I’m not even sure FF knows what Marshall law is let alone that he could declare it! 😂 I just hate when he gets credit for anything. He’s been a lying manipulative bully con man his whole life.Merkin Baller said:cblock4life said:
I’m not disagreeing, I’m just saying they were too stupid to accomplish it for those who believed it was a coup attempt. It takes a whole lotta smarts to accomplish something like that, more than just three months of planning, total military support, police support, lots of money, and much more.Merkin Baller said:
Yup... just because the attempt to stop congress from certifying the results of the election was poorly organized and executed doesn't mean it wasn't an attempt to stop congress from certifying the results of the election.Cropduster-80 said:
It’s about entitlement. They thought they would be allowed to do that first of all, and secondly they thought that was their right to do that.mace1229 said:
How is Jan 6 proof of that? Not 1 shot was fired by a rioter from what I heard. So I don't see the jump to saying that's proof that millions are just trigger happy crazies when not one of them pulled a trigger that day.Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.
I think Jan 6 was an illegal riot, that they had no right to breach the capitol like that. But there just isn't any evidence to say they are all gun crazy trigger happy people. I also believe they weren't trying to over take anything, it was too poorly organized and executed. They just wanted to stir up thing and create chaos, which they did. You can't take over a government by acting crazy inside a capitol.
guns or not that’s a disturbing mentality. Armed standoffs with the government based on no justification has been going on for years. There are many examples of that or blowing up federal buildings. The people doing all that have millions of supporters. Storming the capital was part of that
all the false comparisons to the chaos of the BLM protests which did get out of hand in many instances, not one of those attempted to overthrow the government. Preventing a certification of a vote is a coup attempt. “ a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.” it wasn’t successful but that doesn’t change what it was
jan 6 rioters would do it all again happily
The reason behind those rubes storming the Capitol isn't up for debate. They were there to stop the certification of the 2020 election results because their cult leader told them to do so.
I'm not arguing as to how well thought out the plan was, I'm saying the reasoning behind the storming of the Capitol isn't up for debate.
For the record though, some people were more prepared and had a bigger plan in mind than others:
https://apnews.com/article/stewart-rhodes-arrested-oath-keepers-jan-6-insurrection-70019e1007132e8df786aaf77215a110I totally get what your saying though and I agree it was a fucked up situation and could have gotten much worse….so I’m not arguing either.0 -
The quote I responded to said that Jan 6 is proof that millions are willing to take up arms and happily pull the trigger.Cropduster-80 said:
It’s about entitlement. They thought they would be allowed to do that first of all, and secondly they thought that was their right to do that.mace1229 said:
How is Jan 6 proof of that? Not 1 shot was fired by a rioter from what I heard. So I don't see the jump to saying that's proof that millions are just trigger happy crazies when not one of them pulled a trigger that day.Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.
I think Jan 6 was an illegal riot, that they had no right to breach the capitol like that. But there just isn't any evidence to say they are all gun crazy trigger happy people. I also believe they weren't trying to over take anything, it was too poorly organized and executed. They just wanted to stir up thing and create chaos, which they did. You can't take over a government by acting crazy inside a capitol.
guns or not that’s a disturbing mentality. Armed standoffs with the government based on no justification has been going on for years. There are many examples of that or blowing up federal buildings, trying to kidnap a sitting governor.The people doing all that have millions of supporters. Storming the capital are those same like minded types of people.
all the false comparisons to the chaos of the BLM protests which did get out of hand in many instances, not one of those attempted to overthrow the government. Preventing a certification of a vote is a coup attempt. “ a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.” it wasn’t successful but that doesn’t change what it was
not all riots are the same. Rioting on Main Street and rioting inside congress are vastly different as were the goals
jan 6 rioters would do it all again happily. Next time they will just be angrier if they lose again
violence is inevitable when a bunch of Karen’s don’t get their way
I still stand by my comment. Nothing I have seen supports that.
Two separate people in response linked an article that talked about 11 people stock piling guns in a nearby hotel. My response to that is so 11 people is proof that millions are happy to pull the trigger? I don't see the link to that. You can find 11 people pretty much willing to do anything. That doesn't mean millions are going to follow them.
BLM riots and Jan 6 riots are different in that rioting down the street is one thing and storming the capitol is another. But where I think the common ground is was the mob mentality that is found in almost all riots. The vast majority of the people didn't look prepared for anything. Just following the mob rule. Probably didn't think they'd face any consequence, just wanted to be crazy. Its my opinion that the vast majority had no belief that a successful takeover was even possible. Just because you chase them off for a few hours doesn't make them the new leaders of the country, they had to know that. Therefore not their intent, but rather just to cause chaos and put their feet up on Nancy's desk.
And even if I'm wrong, the number willing and wanting to do that is certainly not in the millions.
0 -
mace1229 said:
The quote I responded to said that Jan 6 is proof that millions are willing to take up arms and happily pull the trigger.Cropduster-80 said:
It’s about entitlement. They thought they would be allowed to do that first of all, and secondly they thought that was their right to do that.mace1229 said:
How is Jan 6 proof of that? Not 1 shot was fired by a rioter from what I heard. So I don't see the jump to saying that's proof that millions are just trigger happy crazies when not one of them pulled a trigger that day.Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.
I think Jan 6 was an illegal riot, that they had no right to breach the capitol like that. But there just isn't any evidence to say they are all gun crazy trigger happy people. I also believe they weren't trying to over take anything, it was too poorly organized and executed. They just wanted to stir up thing and create chaos, which they did. You can't take over a government by acting crazy inside a capitol.
guns or not that’s a disturbing mentality. Armed standoffs with the government based on no justification has been going on for years. There are many examples of that or blowing up federal buildings, trying to kidnap a sitting governor.The people doing all that have millions of supporters. Storming the capital are those same like minded types of people.
all the false comparisons to the chaos of the BLM protests which did get out of hand in many instances, not one of those attempted to overthrow the government. Preventing a certification of a vote is a coup attempt. “ a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.” it wasn’t successful but that doesn’t change what it was
not all riots are the same. Rioting on Main Street and rioting inside congress are vastly different as were the goals
jan 6 rioters would do it all again happily. Next time they will just be angrier if they lose again
violence is inevitable when a bunch of Karen’s don’t get their way
I still stand by my comment. Nothing I have seen supports that.
Two separate people in response linked an article that talked about 11 people stock piling guns in a nearby hotel. My response to that is so 11 people is proof that millions are happy to pull the trigger? I don't see the link to that. You can find 11 people pretty much willing to do anything. That doesn't mean millions are going to follow them.
BLM riots and Jan 6 riots are different in that rioting down the street is one thing and storming the capitol is another. But where I think the common ground is was the mob mentality that is found in almost all riots. The vast majority of the people didn't look prepared for anything. Just following the mob rule. Probably didn't think they'd face any consequence, just wanted to be crazy. Its my opinion that the vast majority had no belief that a successful takeover was even possible. Just because you chase them off for a few hours doesn't make them the new leaders of the country, they had to know that. Therefore not their intent, but rather just to cause chaos and put their feet up on Nancy's desk.
And even if I'm wrong, the number willing and wanting to do that is certainly not in the millions.
You and I are in agreement in regards to the number of people 'willing to pull the trigger' for tfg. After the way he abandoned the rubes that stormed the capitol, I think fewer people are willing to throw their lives away for him.
RE: January 6th, mob mentality or not, those people went from the ellipse to the Capitol to stop congress from certifying the vote and resorted to violence to accomplish their goal. This isn't up for debate.
The lack of organization or poor execution doesn't mean it isn't what it was.
0 -
And as the Jan 6th Committee has laid out, there was coordination between the Oath Keepers and Trump team. They were not just some random group of guys.Merkin Baller said:cblock4life said:
I’m not disagreeing, I’m just saying they were too stupid to accomplish it for those who believed it was a coup attempt. It takes a whole lotta smarts to accomplish something like that, more than just three months of planning, total military support, police support, lots of money, and much more.Merkin Baller said:
Yup... just because the attempt to stop congress from certifying the results of the election was poorly organized and executed doesn't mean it wasn't an attempt to stop congress from certifying the results of the election.Cropduster-80 said:
It’s about entitlement. They thought they would be allowed to do that first of all, and secondly they thought that was their right to do that.mace1229 said:
How is Jan 6 proof of that? Not 1 shot was fired by a rioter from what I heard. So I don't see the jump to saying that's proof that millions are just trigger happy crazies when not one of them pulled a trigger that day.Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.
I think Jan 6 was an illegal riot, that they had no right to breach the capitol like that. But there just isn't any evidence to say they are all gun crazy trigger happy people. I also believe they weren't trying to over take anything, it was too poorly organized and executed. They just wanted to stir up thing and create chaos, which they did. You can't take over a government by acting crazy inside a capitol.
guns or not that’s a disturbing mentality. Armed standoffs with the government based on no justification has been going on for years. There are many examples of that or blowing up federal buildings. The people doing all that have millions of supporters. Storming the capital was part of that
all the false comparisons to the chaos of the BLM protests which did get out of hand in many instances, not one of those attempted to overthrow the government. Preventing a certification of a vote is a coup attempt. “ a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.” it wasn’t successful but that doesn’t change what it was
jan 6 rioters would do it all again happily
The reason behind those rubes storming the Capitol isn't up for debate. They were there to stop the certification of the 2020 election results because their cult leader told them to do so.
I'm not arguing as to how well thought out the plan was, I'm saying the reasoning behind the storming of the Capitol isn't up for debate.
For the record though, some people were more prepared and had a bigger plan in mind than others:
https://apnews.com/article/stewart-rhodes-arrested-oath-keepers-jan-6-insurrection-70019e1007132e8df786aaf77215a110
I still don't understand how some are still so eager to downplay what happened that day, even after all we have learned about it...Post edited by The Juggler onwww.myspace.com0 -
The planning or lack of is debatable. This coup attempt started on election night.Merkin Baller said:mace1229 said:
The quote I responded to said that Jan 6 is proof that millions are willing to take up arms and happily pull the trigger.Cropduster-80 said:
It’s about entitlement. They thought they would be allowed to do that first of all, and secondly they thought that was their right to do that.mace1229 said:
How is Jan 6 proof of that? Not 1 shot was fired by a rioter from what I heard. So I don't see the jump to saying that's proof that millions are just trigger happy crazies when not one of them pulled a trigger that day.Merkin Baller said:
You assumed violence, so you tell me...Lerxst1992 said:Merkin Baller said:
I was told there would be massive riots & bloodshed in his name…mrussel1 said:
No war has started? Strange...static111 said:.I was expecting more MAGA fallout from the speech. I haven't looked to closely at any right wing media today, but it seems like the response to being called out is pretty tame
Revisiting the national security/democracy issue, why are moderates assuming the uprising would be violent like Jan 6?
The "war" has been full speed ahead since 2021 and has been nonviolent.
J6 failed because the laws and key officials were not in place to overturn an election in 2020, as the laws and 60 court rulings stepping in the way
However, The GOP has been hard at work since, changing state voting and election administration laws. And "Trump judges" look to be emboldened now. This Cannon ruling getting in the way of a criminal investigation is chilling. As is the upcoming scotus case regarding the independent legislature theory.
Will the left sit by peacefully if scotus were to "pull a Cannon" regarding an election dispute?
You said the following in the thread about the DOJ going after trump and specifically cited January 6th when doing so:
"We like to say no one is above the law but there is no real way to pull it off without pissing off millions of crazies with guns, who would happily pull the trigger over this, and Jan six is proof of that."
If anything, I think the fallout from January 6th is going to DETER many people from violence. Those rubes have been abandoned by their dear leader... a lot of people who may have been willing to step up before that, will have second thoughts after the way that shook out.
I have no doubt the elections are going to be ugly, and I'm very concerned about how that will go down. If Republicans win in November. I think we're f'ed.
I feel very strongly that there WILL be violence by some crazies out there, but as far as 'assuming a violent uprising', I would defer to the people handwringing over "millions of crazies with guns who would happily pull the trigger over this" to answer your question.
I think Jan 6 was an illegal riot, that they had no right to breach the capitol like that. But there just isn't any evidence to say they are all gun crazy trigger happy people. I also believe they weren't trying to over take anything, it was too poorly organized and executed. They just wanted to stir up thing and create chaos, which they did. You can't take over a government by acting crazy inside a capitol.
guns or not that’s a disturbing mentality. Armed standoffs with the government based on no justification has been going on for years. There are many examples of that or blowing up federal buildings, trying to kidnap a sitting governor.The people doing all that have millions of supporters. Storming the capital are those same like minded types of people.
all the false comparisons to the chaos of the BLM protests which did get out of hand in many instances, not one of those attempted to overthrow the government. Preventing a certification of a vote is a coup attempt. “ a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.” it wasn’t successful but that doesn’t change what it was
not all riots are the same. Rioting on Main Street and rioting inside congress are vastly different as were the goals
jan 6 rioters would do it all again happily. Next time they will just be angrier if they lose again
violence is inevitable when a bunch of Karen’s don’t get their way
I still stand by my comment. Nothing I have seen supports that.
Two separate people in response linked an article that talked about 11 people stock piling guns in a nearby hotel. My response to that is so 11 people is proof that millions are happy to pull the trigger? I don't see the link to that. You can find 11 people pretty much willing to do anything. That doesn't mean millions are going to follow them.
BLM riots and Jan 6 riots are different in that rioting down the street is one thing and storming the capitol is another. But where I think the common ground is was the mob mentality that is found in almost all riots. The vast majority of the people didn't look prepared for anything. Just following the mob rule. Probably didn't think they'd face any consequence, just wanted to be crazy. Its my opinion that the vast majority had no belief that a successful takeover was even possible. Just because you chase them off for a few hours doesn't make them the new leaders of the country, they had to know that. Therefore not their intent, but rather just to cause chaos and put their feet up on Nancy's desk.
And even if I'm wrong, the number willing and wanting to do that is certainly not in the millions.
You and I are in agreement in regards to the number of people 'willing to pull the trigger' for tfg. After the way he abandoned the rubes that stormed the capitol, I think fewer people are willing to throw their lives away for him.
RE: January 6th, mob mentality or not, those people went from the ellipse to the Capitol to stop congress from certifying the vote and resorted to violence to accomplish their goal. This isn't up for debate.
The lack of organization or poor execution doesn't mean it isn't what it was.There is documented discussions about seizing voting machines, martial law was discussed, lawsuits, not certifying, fake electors, misinformation etc
the fact these people showed up to do the only thing they could think of to do should have been expected. It was the last coup attempt and sort of scattered on its execution. Had they been better prepared and captured the vice president or members of Congress it very well could have succeeded
There were multiple coup attempts . It’s unfortunate the spectacle of that day overshadows what was probably worse and somewhat better planned by people better placed within the government that preceded jan 6Post edited by Cropduster-80 on0
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