#46 President Joe Biden

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

I really don’t know enough or can relate to this. I’ve never had student loan debt. At first , it sounded good. But the more I read into it, the more it sounds like a whole lot of nothing. I don’t think this will really do much going forward. I read an article and this paragraph stuck out the most to me :

Any serious discussion surrounding student debt would ask the fundamental question of how best to reduce tuition price tags, as ours dwarf those of peer nations. But this isn’t a serious discussion. It is a bribe to Biden’s base in anticipation of the midterm elections, and the US taxpayers are the ones footing the bill.

the first sentence is the obvious problem. The second is more of an attack on Biden , but how true is that about taxpayers footing the bill? Will this really cost us 300 billion? 

Taking $10K or $20K off of a lower/middle income recent graduate's back is not a whole lot of nothing.

That coupled with the 5% cap is huge.

It is a whole lot of nothing to those going to college next year and are paying the same inflated prices.

brianlux

Cropduster-80 said:

Another thing to consider. 

Farm subsidies.  A lot of people say it’s necessary to protect farmers and food supply for national security reasons.

we currently have to import a lot of computer engineers and such from other countries as America isn’t producing enough.  Also imagine the person with $150k in debt with a security clearance? Or at a minimum someone with an even somewhat sensitive job 

Education is a national security concern both in it being affordable and the number of people going among the population. We simply don’t have enough people in college and certainly not enough in critical areas 

I am all for a college education.  After all, I have taken classes at six colleges, worked for three of them, and received degrees from two of them.  But despite my enthusiasm for a good college education, I also believe it is important to recognize that college isn't for everyone and that good trade schools should be a well supported alternative to higher education. 

Most college graduates end up with jobs that involve sitting behind a computer.  Much of that work is valuable, but the world does not run solely on people sitting in front of computers- at least not yet.   I don't know how widespread this situation is, but where I live it is getting harder and harder to find good, qualified people in the trade industry to do electrical work or plumbing, landscaping, construction, etc.  I would love to see more and better trade schools for those not inclined to wanting to listen to lectures, take tests, and write papers.  All good work is honorable.

Cropduster-80

brianlux said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Another thing to consider. 

Farm subsidies.  A lot of people say it’s necessary to protect farmers and food supply for national security reasons.

we currently have to import a lot of computer engineers and such from other countries as America isn’t producing enough.  Also imagine the person with $150k in debt with a security clearance? Or at a minimum someone with an even somewhat sensitive job 

Education is a national security concern both in it being affordable and the number of people going among the population. We simply don’t have enough people in college and certainly not enough in critical areas 

I am all for a college education.  After all, I have taken classes at six colleges, worked for three of them, and received degrees from two of them.  But despite my enthusiasm for a good college education, I also believe it is important to recognize that college isn't for everyone and that good trade schools should be a well supported alternative to higher education. 

Most college graduates end up with jobs that involve sitting behind a computer.  Much of that work is valuable, but the world does not run solely on people sitting in front of computers- at least not yet.   I don't know how widespread this situation is, but where I live it is getting harder and harder to find good, qualified people in the trade industry to do electrical work or plumbing, landscaping, construction, etc.  I would love to see more and better trade schools for those not inclined to wanting to listen to lectures, take tests, and write papers.  All good work is honorable.

I fully agree. However cost shouldn’t be the deciding factor.  College enrolment is also plummeting at exactly the time it needs to be going up.  Technical STEM careers are what’s needed to be competitive in the future 

A say it a lot.  My kids can be plumbers and I will be proud of them. They will have a 4 year degree though it’s not negotiable.  There is absolutely value in any career. Doesn’t mean education isn’t still important.  Education shouldn’t have to be means to an end. The expense makes it one though 

I think it was Denmark or somewhere and we were talking to some people in Starbucks.  Even the people who choose to serve coffee went to college it seemed 

my grandma graduated college in the 1940’s. Never had a job in her life.  That wasn’t really the point. 

mace1229

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Loan forgiveness is a terrible idea.
One, it does zero to reduce to cost. So it’s pointless.
But mostly, you agree to take a loan you should be responsible to pay it back. Not pass it off into other taxpayers. It’s not about fairness to those who just paid it off, I don’t care about that. If it was a gift from China then that’d one thing. But you’re “forgiving” it by passing it on to the rest of us.

The reasons of they’re just drowning in debt and school is so expensive don’t do it for me. How many drowning in student loan debt considered other options like going to a 2 year school first? There are ways to drastically cut the cost back if that is your goal. There are plenty of people drowning in credit card debt too, should we forgive that with tax money? You chose to take out tens of thousands to attend a 4 year school, and most likely partied the first 2 years. That’s great. I wish you the best. Don’t pay off your debt with my taxes though.

I also think PPP loan forgiveness was a bad idea.

Two points:
1 what about people who still owe 60k in loans on a 70k initial loan amount.  After 25 years of paying they have paid back 75k to the government?

there are a lot of older borrowers who have in fact paid the entire principle back.  A lot of these people happen to be teachers.  If we paid them more (with our tax dollars) maybe they wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with 

2. Non college educated people get bailed out all the time (as education level generally mirrors income)
in Texas after the winter storm a couple of years ago the people on variable rate energy plans got bailed out.
these are the people who saved money for years with their energy rates floating below a long term contract rate.  When prices spiked and they got a $5k heating bill they didn’t have to pay.

natural disasters.   The homes least able to withstand a disaster are the ones owned generally by people who didn’t go to college. They also don’t have proper insurance.   They get bailed out 

loan forgiveness is a handout but middle class college educated individuals get less handouts than a lot of other groups.  

I am subsidising those handouts through my electricity rates and through my tax dollars.  A lot of the pushback on the right is being framed as non college graduates footing the bill.  Well they aren’t, as they don’t pay that many taxes to begin with statistically speaking.

I’ve paid off 100 percent of my student loans.  I’m not benefiting but I’m happy to help others get a small bit of relief.

2- This is irrelevant. If we're talking about student loans, that has nothing to do with what other people got during a natural disaster or anything or time. But if we do want to talk about it, it just opens the door for everyone who just paid back their loans to complain too. Which are valid points, why are those who did't pay it off rewarded and those who did get nothing? I'm sure many made sacrifices, put down less on a car or home to pay off loans early, so they just have another form, just not as a student loan. So I'm just talking about in basic terms of just the loan itself to keep it simpler. 

1- I feel bad with people who have 60k in student loan debt. But I wasn't the one who signed up for it and agreed to pay it. Thats the bottom line and what I can't agree with. You agree to the terms and sign up for it. If its too much, if its going to create a long-lasting burden, then don't do it. There are much cheaper alternatives. You can go to the community college I went to for still only $46 a unit! Get your first 2 years out of the way. You can get your first 2 years of college for about $2200 there. There's actually a trade school shortage because they are just taking out loans and doing the 4 year college without even knowing what they want to do and trying to find yourself. Probably because everyone wants the dorm/college life experience, and now expects everyone else to pay for it too. 

It’s not irrelevant because the entire issue isn’t it’s a handout, it’s a handout some people get and others don’t.
 Everyone gets some form of handout, and everyone thinks the one they get is justified and the one they don’t get isn’t. 

Tax breaks, subsidies, grants, stimulus checks, government spending in general. 

All of it benefits one group and sometimes not another.
look at healthcare.  One of the main roadblocks in national health isn’t free (tax supported) healthcare. It’s people being to worried I’m paying taxes for my healthcare when someone else gets theirs reguardless. People being worried about what other people are getting is a big problem.  Having a lower cost to you is less important than someone else getting an even better deal. What’s best for everyone also isn’t  a factor 

 If the median income is in the ballpark of 40k for a non college graduate they pay at most 3k in actual federal taxes SS and Medicare don’t count. Probably much less.  They aren’t even paying for their share of the defense department budget so I really question the narrative coming from GOP talking points that non college graduates are footing the bill.  Is everyone paying a little? Sure.  It’s not class warfare though.  By in large college graduates are footing the bill 

We'll disagree on the first part. None of the other examples I've seen include anyone who signed up and agreed to something, then said its too much. We didn't bail out individuals who got suckered into a bad home loan in 2006 and were part of the record foreclosures in 2008. In terms of borrowing, I don't see this differently. 

But I agree with the last. Saying non college grads are paying it is a weak argument. Saying everyone is paying it, which includes those who'd didn't go as well as those who paid off their loans, had a full ride scholarship, saved up, worked extra jobs, chose community college first, went to trade school, etc. is more accurate. Non college grads are probably the smaller population of that group, don't know why they'd focus on them. 

brianlux

Cropduster-80 said:

brianlux said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Another thing to consider. 

Farm subsidies.  A lot of people say it’s necessary to protect farmers and food supply for national security reasons.

we currently have to import a lot of computer engineers and such from other countries as America isn’t producing enough.  Also imagine the person with $150k in debt with a security clearance? Or at a minimum someone with an even somewhat sensitive job 

Education is a national security concern both in it being affordable and the number of people going among the population. We simply don’t have enough people in college and certainly not enough in critical areas 

I am all for a college education.  After all, I have taken classes at six colleges, worked for three of them, and received degrees from two of them.  But despite my enthusiasm for a good college education, I also believe it is important to recognize that college isn't for everyone and that good trade schools should be a well supported alternative to higher education. 

Most college graduates end up with jobs that involve sitting behind a computer.  Much of that work is valuable, but the world does not run solely on people sitting in front of computers- at least not yet.   I don't know how widespread this situation is, but where I live it is getting harder and harder to find good, qualified people in the trade industry to do electrical work or plumbing, landscaping, construction, etc.  I would love to see more and better trade schools for those not inclined to wanting to listen to lectures, take tests, and write papers.  All good work is honorable.

I fully agree. However cost shouldn’t be the deciding factor.  College enrolment is also plummeting at exactly the time it needs to be going up.  Technical STEM careers are what’s needed to be competitive in the future 

A say it a lot.  My kids can be plumbers and I will be proud of them. They will have a 4 year degree though.  There is absolutely value in any career. Doesn’t mean education isn’t still important 

I think it was Denmark or somewhere and we were talking to some people in Starbucks.  Even the people who choose to serve coffee went to college it seemed 

Yeah, both college and trade school should be affordable.

Also yes to both not necessarily being exclusive.  My brother is a U.C. Davis graduate and a has also been a farmer for many years.  He is super smart and skilled.  He tried to show me- Mr. College Dude- how to operate a tractor once.  Jiminy Cricket! No way could I coordinate the multi-tasking maneuvers required to do that (also why I am not a drummer, lol!)

Cropduster-80

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Loan forgiveness is a terrible idea.
One, it does zero to reduce to cost. So it’s pointless.
But mostly, you agree to take a loan you should be responsible to pay it back. Not pass it off into other taxpayers. It’s not about fairness to those who just paid it off, I don’t care about that. If it was a gift from China then that’d one thing. But you’re “forgiving” it by passing it on to the rest of us.

The reasons of they’re just drowning in debt and school is so expensive don’t do it for me. How many drowning in student loan debt considered other options like going to a 2 year school first? There are ways to drastically cut the cost back if that is your goal. There are plenty of people drowning in credit card debt too, should we forgive that with tax money? You chose to take out tens of thousands to attend a 4 year school, and most likely partied the first 2 years. That’s great. I wish you the best. Don’t pay off your debt with my taxes though.

I also think PPP loan forgiveness was a bad idea.

Two points:
1 what about people who still owe 60k in loans on a 70k initial loan amount.  After 25 years of paying they have paid back 75k to the government?

there are a lot of older borrowers who have in fact paid the entire principle back.  A lot of these people happen to be teachers.  If we paid them more (with our tax dollars) maybe they wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with 

2. Non college educated people get bailed out all the time (as education level generally mirrors income)
in Texas after the winter storm a couple of years ago the people on variable rate energy plans got bailed out.
these are the people who saved money for years with their energy rates floating below a long term contract rate.  When prices spiked and they got a $5k heating bill they didn’t have to pay.

natural disasters.   The homes least able to withstand a disaster are the ones owned generally by people who didn’t go to college. They also don’t have proper insurance.   They get bailed out 

loan forgiveness is a handout but middle class college educated individuals get less handouts than a lot of other groups.  

I am subsidising those handouts through my electricity rates and through my tax dollars.  A lot of the pushback on the right is being framed as non college graduates footing the bill.  Well they aren’t, as they don’t pay that many taxes to begin with statistically speaking.

I’ve paid off 100 percent of my student loans.  I’m not benefiting but I’m happy to help others get a small bit of relief.

2- This is irrelevant. If we're talking about student loans, that has nothing to do with what other people got during a natural disaster or anything or time. But if we do want to talk about it, it just opens the door for everyone who just paid back their loans to complain too. Which are valid points, why are those who did't pay it off rewarded and those who did get nothing? I'm sure many made sacrifices, put down less on a car or home to pay off loans early, so they just have another form, just not as a student loan. So I'm just talking about in basic terms of just the loan itself to keep it simpler. 

1- I feel bad with people who have 60k in student loan debt. But I wasn't the one who signed up for it and agreed to pay it. Thats the bottom line and what I can't agree with. You agree to the terms and sign up for it. If its too much, if its going to create a long-lasting burden, then don't do it. There are much cheaper alternatives. You can go to the community college I went to for still only $46 a unit! Get your first 2 years out of the way. You can get your first 2 years of college for about $2200 there. There's actually a trade school shortage because they are just taking out loans and doing the 4 year college without even knowing what they want to do and trying to find yourself. Probably because everyone wants the dorm/college life experience, and now expects everyone else to pay for it too. 

It’s not irrelevant because the entire issue isn’t it’s a handout, it’s a handout some people get and others don’t.
 Everyone gets some form of handout, and everyone thinks the one they get is justified and the one they don’t get isn’t. 

Tax breaks, subsidies, grants, stimulus checks, government spending in general. 

All of it benefits one group and sometimes not another.
look at healthcare.  One of the main roadblocks in national health isn’t free (tax supported) healthcare. It’s people being to worried I’m paying taxes for my healthcare when someone else gets theirs reguardless. People being worried about what other people are getting is a big problem.  Having a lower cost to you is less important than someone else getting an even better deal. What’s best for everyone also isn’t  a factor 

 If the median income is in the ballpark of 40k for a non college graduate they pay at most 3k in actual federal taxes SS and Medicare don’t count. Probably much less.  They aren’t even paying for their share of the defense department budget so I really question the narrative coming from GOP talking points that non college graduates are footing the bill.  Is everyone paying a little? Sure.  It’s not class warfare though.  By in large college graduates are footing the bill 

We'll disagree on the first part. None of the other examples I've seen include anyone who signed up and agreed to something, then said its too much. We didn't bail out individuals who got suckered into a bad home loan in 2006 and were part of the record foreclosures in 2008. In terms of borrowing, I don't see this differently. 

But I agree with the last. Saying non college grads are paying it is a weak argument. Saying everyone is paying it, which includes those who'd didn't go as well as those who paid off their loans, had a full ride scholarship, saved up, worked extra jobs, chose community college first, went to trade school, etc. is more accurate. Non college grads are probably the smaller population of that group, don't know why they'd focus on them. 

Some of this reminds me of a conversation I had with my wife when her company went all in on paid maternity leave for both the men and women.

older women complained the most. They were mad new mothers got a benefit that they didn’t when they had their kids.

it seemed insane to me.  

Paying off college loans especially for people who have paid off the principle to me should be a no brainer but it goes back to that maternity policy uproar at my wife’s company.  It’s not fair because I didn’t get it.

FYI on average the average 34 year old with student debt owes 287% more than the initial loan amount.  Obviously an average is skewed by extreme examples.  What’s true though is loan balances often don’t go down especially with income based repayment.  Spinning in circles with interest is a problem.  With other debt you can declare bankruptcy with federal student loans you can’t always get rid of it there 

HughFreakingDillon

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Loan forgiveness is a terrible idea.
One, it does zero to reduce to cost. So it’s pointless.
But mostly, you agree to take a loan you should be responsible to pay it back. Not pass it off into other taxpayers. It’s not about fairness to those who just paid it off, I don’t care about that. If it was a gift from China then that’d one thing. But you’re “forgiving” it by passing it on to the rest of us.

The reasons of they’re just drowning in debt and school is so expensive don’t do it for me. How many drowning in student loan debt considered other options like going to a 2 year school first? There are ways to drastically cut the cost back if that is your goal. There are plenty of people drowning in credit card debt too, should we forgive that with tax money? You chose to take out tens of thousands to attend a 4 year school, and most likely partied the first 2 years. That’s great. I wish you the best. Don’t pay off your debt with my taxes though.

I also think PPP loan forgiveness was a bad idea.

Two points:
1 what about people who still owe 60k in loans on a 70k initial loan amount.  After 25 years of paying they have paid back 75k to the government?

there are a lot of older borrowers who have in fact paid the entire principle back.  A lot of these people happen to be teachers.  If we paid them more (with our tax dollars) maybe they wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with 

2. Non college educated people get bailed out all the time (as education level generally mirrors income)
in Texas after the winter storm a couple of years ago the people on variable rate energy plans got bailed out.
these are the people who saved money for years with their energy rates floating below a long term contract rate.  When prices spiked and they got a $5k heating bill they didn’t have to pay.

natural disasters.   The homes least able to withstand a disaster are the ones owned generally by people who didn’t go to college. They also don’t have proper insurance.   They get bailed out 

loan forgiveness is a handout but middle class college educated individuals get less handouts than a lot of other groups.  

I am subsidising those handouts through my electricity rates and through my tax dollars.  A lot of the pushback on the right is being framed as non college graduates footing the bill.  Well they aren’t, as they don’t pay that many taxes to begin with statistically speaking.

I’ve paid off 100 percent of my student loans.  I’m not benefiting but I’m happy to help others get a small bit of relief.

2- This is irrelevant. If we're talking about student loans, that has nothing to do with what other people got during a natural disaster or anything or time. But if we do want to talk about it, it just opens the door for everyone who just paid back their loans to complain too. Which are valid points, why are those who did't pay it off rewarded and those who did get nothing? I'm sure many made sacrifices, put down less on a car or home to pay off loans early, so they just have another form, just not as a student loan. So I'm just talking about in basic terms of just the loan itself to keep it simpler. 

1- I feel bad with people who have 60k in student loan debt. But I wasn't the one who signed up for it and agreed to pay it. Thats the bottom line and what I can't agree with. You agree to the terms and sign up for it. If its too much, if its going to create a long-lasting burden, then don't do it. There are much cheaper alternatives. You can go to the community college I went to for still only $46 a unit! Get your first 2 years out of the way. You can get your first 2 years of college for about $2200 there. There's actually a trade school shortage because they are just taking out loans and doing the 4 year college without even knowing what they want to do and trying to find yourself. Probably because everyone wants the dorm/college life experience, and now expects everyone else to pay for it too. 

It’s not irrelevant because the entire issue isn’t it’s a handout, it’s a handout some people get and others don’t.
 Everyone gets some form of handout, and everyone thinks the one they get is justified and the one they don’t get isn’t. 

Tax breaks, subsidies, grants, stimulus checks, government spending in general. 

All of it benefits one group and sometimes not another.
look at healthcare.  One of the main roadblocks in national health isn’t free (tax supported) healthcare. It’s people being to worried I’m paying taxes for my healthcare when someone else gets theirs reguardless. People being worried about what other people are getting is a big problem.  Having a lower cost to you is less important than someone else getting an even better deal. What’s best for everyone also isn’t  a factor 

 If the median income is in the ballpark of 40k for a non college graduate they pay at most 3k in actual federal taxes SS and Medicare don’t count. Probably much less.  They aren’t even paying for their share of the defense department budget so I really question the narrative coming from GOP talking points that non college graduates are footing the bill.  Is everyone paying a little? Sure.  It’s not class warfare though.  By in large college graduates are footing the bill 

We'll disagree on the first part. None of the other examples I've seen include anyone who signed up and agreed to something, then said its too much. We didn't bail out individuals who got suckered into a bad home loan in 2006 and were part of the record foreclosures in 2008. In terms of borrowing, I don't see this differently. 

But I agree with the last. Saying non college grads are paying it is a weak argument. Saying everyone is paying it, which includes those who'd didn't go as well as those who paid off their loans, had a full ride scholarship, saved up, worked extra jobs, chose community college first, went to trade school, etc. is more accurate. Non college grads are probably the smaller population of that group, don't know why they'd focus on them. 

Some of this reminds me of a conversation I had with my wife when her company went all in on paid maternity leave for both the men and women.

older women complained the most. They were mad new mothers got a benefit that they didn’t when they had their kids.

it seemed insane to me.  

Paying off college loans especially for people who have paid off the principle to me should be a no brainer but it goes back to that maternity policy uproar at my wife’s company.  It’s not fair because I didn’t get paid leave. 

FYI on average the average 34 year old with student debt owes 287% more than the initial loan amount 

this always bothers me too. A woman I work with constantly brings up mat leave now being 12 or 18 months and "all I got was SIX!". So? you don't like progress? you don't want your daughter to have it better than you did? will never understand that selfish mentality. 

Merkin Baller

HughFreakingDillon said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Loan forgiveness is a terrible idea.
One, it does zero to reduce to cost. So it’s pointless.
But mostly, you agree to take a loan you should be responsible to pay it back. Not pass it off into other taxpayers. It’s not about fairness to those who just paid it off, I don’t care about that. If it was a gift from China then that’d one thing. But you’re “forgiving” it by passing it on to the rest of us.

The reasons of they’re just drowning in debt and school is so expensive don’t do it for me. How many drowning in student loan debt considered other options like going to a 2 year school first? There are ways to drastically cut the cost back if that is your goal. There are plenty of people drowning in credit card debt too, should we forgive that with tax money? You chose to take out tens of thousands to attend a 4 year school, and most likely partied the first 2 years. That’s great. I wish you the best. Don’t pay off your debt with my taxes though.

I also think PPP loan forgiveness was a bad idea.

Two points:
1 what about people who still owe 60k in loans on a 70k initial loan amount.  After 25 years of paying they have paid back 75k to the government?

there are a lot of older borrowers who have in fact paid the entire principle back.  A lot of these people happen to be teachers.  If we paid them more (with our tax dollars) maybe they wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with 

2. Non college educated people get bailed out all the time (as education level generally mirrors income)
in Texas after the winter storm a couple of years ago the people on variable rate energy plans got bailed out.
these are the people who saved money for years with their energy rates floating below a long term contract rate.  When prices spiked and they got a $5k heating bill they didn’t have to pay.

natural disasters.   The homes least able to withstand a disaster are the ones owned generally by people who didn’t go to college. They also don’t have proper insurance.   They get bailed out 

loan forgiveness is a handout but middle class college educated individuals get less handouts than a lot of other groups.  

I am subsidising those handouts through my electricity rates and through my tax dollars.  A lot of the pushback on the right is being framed as non college graduates footing the bill.  Well they aren’t, as they don’t pay that many taxes to begin with statistically speaking.

I’ve paid off 100 percent of my student loans.  I’m not benefiting but I’m happy to help others get a small bit of relief.

2- This is irrelevant. If we're talking about student loans, that has nothing to do with what other people got during a natural disaster or anything or time. But if we do want to talk about it, it just opens the door for everyone who just paid back their loans to complain too. Which are valid points, why are those who did't pay it off rewarded and those who did get nothing? I'm sure many made sacrifices, put down less on a car or home to pay off loans early, so they just have another form, just not as a student loan. So I'm just talking about in basic terms of just the loan itself to keep it simpler. 

1- I feel bad with people who have 60k in student loan debt. But I wasn't the one who signed up for it and agreed to pay it. Thats the bottom line and what I can't agree with. You agree to the terms and sign up for it. If its too much, if its going to create a long-lasting burden, then don't do it. There are much cheaper alternatives. You can go to the community college I went to for still only $46 a unit! Get your first 2 years out of the way. You can get your first 2 years of college for about $2200 there. There's actually a trade school shortage because they are just taking out loans and doing the 4 year college without even knowing what they want to do and trying to find yourself. Probably because everyone wants the dorm/college life experience, and now expects everyone else to pay for it too. 

It’s not irrelevant because the entire issue isn’t it’s a handout, it’s a handout some people get and others don’t.
 Everyone gets some form of handout, and everyone thinks the one they get is justified and the one they don’t get isn’t. 

Tax breaks, subsidies, grants, stimulus checks, government spending in general. 

All of it benefits one group and sometimes not another.
look at healthcare.  One of the main roadblocks in national health isn’t free (tax supported) healthcare. It’s people being to worried I’m paying taxes for my healthcare when someone else gets theirs reguardless. People being worried about what other people are getting is a big problem.  Having a lower cost to you is less important than someone else getting an even better deal. What’s best for everyone also isn’t  a factor 

 If the median income is in the ballpark of 40k for a non college graduate they pay at most 3k in actual federal taxes SS and Medicare don’t count. Probably much less.  They aren’t even paying for their share of the defense department budget so I really question the narrative coming from GOP talking points that non college graduates are footing the bill.  Is everyone paying a little? Sure.  It’s not class warfare though.  By in large college graduates are footing the bill 

We'll disagree on the first part. None of the other examples I've seen include anyone who signed up and agreed to something, then said its too much. We didn't bail out individuals who got suckered into a bad home loan in 2006 and were part of the record foreclosures in 2008. In terms of borrowing, I don't see this differently. 

But I agree with the last. Saying non college grads are paying it is a weak argument. Saying everyone is paying it, which includes those who'd didn't go as well as those who paid off their loans, had a full ride scholarship, saved up, worked extra jobs, chose community college first, went to trade school, etc. is more accurate. Non college grads are probably the smaller population of that group, don't know why they'd focus on them. 

Some of this reminds me of a conversation I had with my wife when her company went all in on paid maternity leave for both the men and women.

older women complained the most. They were mad new mothers got a benefit that they didn’t when they had their kids.

it seemed insane to me.  

Paying off college loans especially for people who have paid off the principle to me should be a no brainer but it goes back to that maternity policy uproar at my wife’s company.  It’s not fair because I didn’t get paid leave. 

FYI on average the average 34 year old with student debt owes 287% more than the initial loan amount 

this always bothers me too. A woman I work with constantly brings up mat leave now being 12 or 18 months and "all I got was SIX!". So? you don't like progress? you don't want your daughter to have it better than you did? will never understand that selfish mentality. 

“Installing better railings at the zoo’s tiger pit would be a slap in the face to people who were killed after falling into the tiger pit.”

HughFreakingDillon

haha. so true

mace1229

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Loan forgiveness is a terrible idea.
One, it does zero to reduce to cost. So it’s pointless.
But mostly, you agree to take a loan you should be responsible to pay it back. Not pass it off into other taxpayers. It’s not about fairness to those who just paid it off, I don’t care about that. If it was a gift from China then that’d one thing. But you’re “forgiving” it by passing it on to the rest of us.

The reasons of they’re just drowning in debt and school is so expensive don’t do it for me. How many drowning in student loan debt considered other options like going to a 2 year school first? There are ways to drastically cut the cost back if that is your goal. There are plenty of people drowning in credit card debt too, should we forgive that with tax money? You chose to take out tens of thousands to attend a 4 year school, and most likely partied the first 2 years. That’s great. I wish you the best. Don’t pay off your debt with my taxes though.

I also think PPP loan forgiveness was a bad idea.

Two points:
1 what about people who still owe 60k in loans on a 70k initial loan amount.  After 25 years of paying they have paid back 75k to the government?

there are a lot of older borrowers who have in fact paid the entire principle back.  A lot of these people happen to be teachers.  If we paid them more (with our tax dollars) maybe they wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with 

2. Non college educated people get bailed out all the time (as education level generally mirrors income)
in Texas after the winter storm a couple of years ago the people on variable rate energy plans got bailed out.
these are the people who saved money for years with their energy rates floating below a long term contract rate.  When prices spiked and they got a $5k heating bill they didn’t have to pay.

natural disasters.   The homes least able to withstand a disaster are the ones owned generally by people who didn’t go to college. They also don’t have proper insurance.   They get bailed out 

loan forgiveness is a handout but middle class college educated individuals get less handouts than a lot of other groups.  

I am subsidising those handouts through my electricity rates and through my tax dollars.  A lot of the pushback on the right is being framed as non college graduates footing the bill.  Well they aren’t, as they don’t pay that many taxes to begin with statistically speaking.

I’ve paid off 100 percent of my student loans.  I’m not benefiting but I’m happy to help others get a small bit of relief.

2- This is irrelevant. If we're talking about student loans, that has nothing to do with what other people got during a natural disaster or anything or time. But if we do want to talk about it, it just opens the door for everyone who just paid back their loans to complain too. Which are valid points, why are those who did't pay it off rewarded and those who did get nothing? I'm sure many made sacrifices, put down less on a car or home to pay off loans early, so they just have another form, just not as a student loan. So I'm just talking about in basic terms of just the loan itself to keep it simpler. 

1- I feel bad with people who have 60k in student loan debt. But I wasn't the one who signed up for it and agreed to pay it. Thats the bottom line and what I can't agree with. You agree to the terms and sign up for it. If its too much, if its going to create a long-lasting burden, then don't do it. There are much cheaper alternatives. You can go to the community college I went to for still only $46 a unit! Get your first 2 years out of the way. You can get your first 2 years of college for about $2200 there. There's actually a trade school shortage because they are just taking out loans and doing the 4 year college without even knowing what they want to do and trying to find yourself. Probably because everyone wants the dorm/college life experience, and now expects everyone else to pay for it too. 

It’s not irrelevant because the entire issue isn’t it’s a handout, it’s a handout some people get and others don’t.
 Everyone gets some form of handout, and everyone thinks the one they get is justified and the one they don’t get isn’t. 

Tax breaks, subsidies, grants, stimulus checks, government spending in general. 

All of it benefits one group and sometimes not another.
look at healthcare.  One of the main roadblocks in national health isn’t free (tax supported) healthcare. It’s people being to worried I’m paying taxes for my healthcare when someone else gets theirs reguardless. People being worried about what other people are getting is a big problem.  Having a lower cost to you is less important than someone else getting an even better deal. What’s best for everyone also isn’t  a factor 

 If the median income is in the ballpark of 40k for a non college graduate they pay at most 3k in actual federal taxes SS and Medicare don’t count. Probably much less.  They aren’t even paying for their share of the defense department budget so I really question the narrative coming from GOP talking points that non college graduates are footing the bill.  Is everyone paying a little? Sure.  It’s not class warfare though.  By in large college graduates are footing the bill 

We'll disagree on the first part. None of the other examples I've seen include anyone who signed up and agreed to something, then said its too much. We didn't bail out individuals who got suckered into a bad home loan in 2006 and were part of the record foreclosures in 2008. In terms of borrowing, I don't see this differently. 

But I agree with the last. Saying non college grads are paying it is a weak argument. Saying everyone is paying it, which includes those who'd didn't go as well as those who paid off their loans, had a full ride scholarship, saved up, worked extra jobs, chose community college first, went to trade school, etc. is more accurate. Non college grads are probably the smaller population of that group, don't know why they'd focus on them. 

Some of this reminds me of a conversation I had with my wife when her company went all in on paid maternity leave for both the men and women.

older women complained the most. They were mad new mothers got a benefit that they didn’t when they had their kids.

it seemed insane to me.  

Paying off college loans especially for people who have paid off the principle to me should be a no brainer but it goes back to that maternity policy uproar at my wife’s company.  It’s not fair because I didn’t get it.

FYI on average the average 34 year old with student debt owes 287% more than the initial loan amount.  Obviously an average is skewed by extreme examples.  What’s true though is loan balances often don’t go down especially with income based repayment.  Spinning in circles with interest is a problem.  With other debt you can declare bankruptcy with federal student loans you can’t always get rid of it there 

Being upset solely because you didn't get it too does seem insane. But I'm guessing the cost of doing things like that gets passed on to everyone. For example, in order to pay for maternity leave for everyone maybe they increase the cost of benefits. So in effect you're helping pay for a benefit for someone else that wasn't available to you. I'm not saying we shouldn't expand benefits for that reason, but it would be a valid complaint. I'd be upset if I had to take unpaid leave, then a couple years later essentially take a pay cut so others could take a paid leave that was not afforded to me. Not saying don't do it, but being upset that the timing impacts you negatively is understandable. 

Cropduster-80

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Loan forgiveness is a terrible idea.
One, it does zero to reduce to cost. So it’s pointless.
But mostly, you agree to take a loan you should be responsible to pay it back. Not pass it off into other taxpayers. It’s not about fairness to those who just paid it off, I don’t care about that. If it was a gift from China then that’d one thing. But you’re “forgiving” it by passing it on to the rest of us.

The reasons of they’re just drowning in debt and school is so expensive don’t do it for me. How many drowning in student loan debt considered other options like going to a 2 year school first? There are ways to drastically cut the cost back if that is your goal. There are plenty of people drowning in credit card debt too, should we forgive that with tax money? You chose to take out tens of thousands to attend a 4 year school, and most likely partied the first 2 years. That’s great. I wish you the best. Don’t pay off your debt with my taxes though.

I also think PPP loan forgiveness was a bad idea.

Two points:
1 what about people who still owe 60k in loans on a 70k initial loan amount.  After 25 years of paying they have paid back 75k to the government?

there are a lot of older borrowers who have in fact paid the entire principle back.  A lot of these people happen to be teachers.  If we paid them more (with our tax dollars) maybe they wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with 

2. Non college educated people get bailed out all the time (as education level generally mirrors income)
in Texas after the winter storm a couple of years ago the people on variable rate energy plans got bailed out.
these are the people who saved money for years with their energy rates floating below a long term contract rate.  When prices spiked and they got a $5k heating bill they didn’t have to pay.

natural disasters.   The homes least able to withstand a disaster are the ones owned generally by people who didn’t go to college. They also don’t have proper insurance.   They get bailed out 

loan forgiveness is a handout but middle class college educated individuals get less handouts than a lot of other groups.  

I am subsidising those handouts through my electricity rates and through my tax dollars.  A lot of the pushback on the right is being framed as non college graduates footing the bill.  Well they aren’t, as they don’t pay that many taxes to begin with statistically speaking.

I’ve paid off 100 percent of my student loans.  I’m not benefiting but I’m happy to help others get a small bit of relief.

2- This is irrelevant. If we're talking about student loans, that has nothing to do with what other people got during a natural disaster or anything or time. But if we do want to talk about it, it just opens the door for everyone who just paid back their loans to complain too. Which are valid points, why are those who did't pay it off rewarded and those who did get nothing? I'm sure many made sacrifices, put down less on a car or home to pay off loans early, so they just have another form, just not as a student loan. So I'm just talking about in basic terms of just the loan itself to keep it simpler. 

1- I feel bad with people who have 60k in student loan debt. But I wasn't the one who signed up for it and agreed to pay it. Thats the bottom line and what I can't agree with. You agree to the terms and sign up for it. If its too much, if its going to create a long-lasting burden, then don't do it. There are much cheaper alternatives. You can go to the community college I went to for still only $46 a unit! Get your first 2 years out of the way. You can get your first 2 years of college for about $2200 there. There's actually a trade school shortage because they are just taking out loans and doing the 4 year college without even knowing what they want to do and trying to find yourself. Probably because everyone wants the dorm/college life experience, and now expects everyone else to pay for it too. 

It’s not irrelevant because the entire issue isn’t it’s a handout, it’s a handout some people get and others don’t.
 Everyone gets some form of handout, and everyone thinks the one they get is justified and the one they don’t get isn’t. 

Tax breaks, subsidies, grants, stimulus checks, government spending in general. 

All of it benefits one group and sometimes not another.
look at healthcare.  One of the main roadblocks in national health isn’t free (tax supported) healthcare. It’s people being to worried I’m paying taxes for my healthcare when someone else gets theirs reguardless. People being worried about what other people are getting is a big problem.  Having a lower cost to you is less important than someone else getting an even better deal. What’s best for everyone also isn’t  a factor 

 If the median income is in the ballpark of 40k for a non college graduate they pay at most 3k in actual federal taxes SS and Medicare don’t count. Probably much less.  They aren’t even paying for their share of the defense department budget so I really question the narrative coming from GOP talking points that non college graduates are footing the bill.  Is everyone paying a little? Sure.  It’s not class warfare though.  By in large college graduates are footing the bill 

We'll disagree on the first part. None of the other examples I've seen include anyone who signed up and agreed to something, then said its too much. We didn't bail out individuals who got suckered into a bad home loan in 2006 and were part of the record foreclosures in 2008. In terms of borrowing, I don't see this differently. 

But I agree with the last. Saying non college grads are paying it is a weak argument. Saying everyone is paying it, which includes those who'd didn't go as well as those who paid off their loans, had a full ride scholarship, saved up, worked extra jobs, chose community college first, went to trade school, etc. is more accurate. Non college grads are probably the smaller population of that group, don't know why they'd focus on them. 

Some of this reminds me of a conversation I had with my wife when her company went all in on paid maternity leave for both the men and women.

older women complained the most. They were mad new mothers got a benefit that they didn’t when they had their kids.

it seemed insane to me.  

Paying off college loans especially for people who have paid off the principle to me should be a no brainer but it goes back to that maternity policy uproar at my wife’s company.  It’s not fair because I didn’t get it.

FYI on average the average 34 year old with student debt owes 287% more than the initial loan amount.  Obviously an average is skewed by extreme examples.  What’s true though is loan balances often don’t go down especially with income based repayment.  Spinning in circles with interest is a problem.  With other debt you can declare bankruptcy with federal student loans you can’t always get rid of it there 

Being upset solely because you didn't get it too does seem insane. But I'm guessing the cost of doing things like that gets passed on to everyone. For example, in order to pay for maternity leave for everyone maybe they increase the cost of benefits. So in effect you're helping pay for a benefit for someone else that wasn't available to you. I'm not saying we shouldn't expand benefits for that reason, but it would be a valid complaint. I'd be upset if I had to take unpaid leave, then a couple years later essentially take a pay cut so others could take a paid leave that was not afforded to me. 

Exactly 

that’s a huge problem with moving forward with anything.  I would argue it’s the single biggest barrier to change.

it’s also contra to a lot of values people have when seeing themselves as individuals instead of being part of a larger group. 

It’s tough to get around.  Best for me Vs best for us. selfish vs selfless.  I also don’t think being selfish is necessarily even a negative quality it’s a pretty normal and reasonable position a lot of times 

Halifax2TheMax

Damn you Brandon!

Halifax2TheMax

Has anyone heard anything about the supply chain issue of late? I went to buy eggs and there was a sign up about a shortage but I still bought a dozen. Should I have gotten more? Like 4 dozen? Can you freeze them? Like an embryo?

Cropduster-80

Halifax2TheMax said:

Has anyone heard anything about the supply chain issue of late? I went to buy eggs and there was a sign up about a shortage but I still bought a dozen. Should I have gotten more? Like 4 dozen? Can you freeze them? Like an embryo?

I just have lots of big cans of freeze dried eggs.  Just in case 😂

Halifax2TheMax

Cropduster-80 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Has anyone heard anything about the supply chain issue of late? I went to buy eggs and there was a sign up about a shortage but I still bought a dozen. Should I have gotten more? Like 4 dozen? Can you freeze them? Like an embryo?

I just have lots of big cans of freeze dried eggs.  Just in case 😂

Is that like Tang where you just add water and BOOM, you’ve got orange juice? If so, I’ll have to look into it. Question, can you get them over easy?

nicknyr15

Halifax2TheMax said:

Has anyone heard anything about the supply chain issue of late? I went to buy eggs and there was a sign up about a shortage but I still bought a dozen. Should I have gotten more? Like 4 dozen? Can you freeze them? Like an embryo?

Have you tried to buy appliances? Had any construction done lately? Paint? I’m dealing with supply chain issues everyday. Not to mention 20-70% increases on most products. With more increases to come from companies like GE and Roman. 

The Juggler

nicknyr15 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Has anyone heard anything about the supply chain issue of late? I went to buy eggs and there was a sign up about a shortage but I still bought a dozen. Should I have gotten more? Like 4 dozen? Can you freeze them? Like an embryo?

Have you tried to buy appliances? Had any construction done lately? Paint? I’m dealing with supply chain issues everyday. Not to mention 20-70% increases on most products. With more increases to come from companies like GM and Roman. 

We bought a washer and dryer last year. Had to wait about a week. Had a pool put in this summer. Supply issues caused some minor delays but nothing major at all. Was finished just a couple weeks behind schedule. 

In my neck of the woods gas prices are down almost a dollar from where they were a couple months ago. 

nicknyr15

The Juggler said:

nicknyr15 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Has anyone heard anything about the supply chain issue of late? I went to buy eggs and there was a sign up about a shortage but I still bought a dozen. Should I have gotten more? Like 4 dozen? Can you freeze them? Like an embryo?

Have you tried to buy appliances? Had any construction done lately? Paint? I’m dealing with supply chain issues everyday. Not to mention 20-70% increases on most products. With more increases to come from companies like GM and Roman. 

We bought a washer and dryer last year. Had to wait about a week. Had a pool put in this summer. Supply issues caused some minor delays but nothing major at all. Was finished just a couple weeks behind schedule. 

In my neck of the woods gas prices are down almost a dollar from where they were a couple months ago. 

I mean, I’m in the business. 20-70% increases on material in a year is insane. And I’m still facing supply issues on a ton of products. Unless we were only talking about eggs? 

The Juggler

nicknyr15 said:

The Juggler said:

nicknyr15 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Has anyone heard anything about the supply chain issue of late? I went to buy eggs and there was a sign up about a shortage but I still bought a dozen. Should I have gotten more? Like 4 dozen? Can you freeze them? Like an embryo?

Have you tried to buy appliances? Had any construction done lately? Paint? I’m dealing with supply chain issues everyday. Not to mention 20-70% increases on most products. With more increases to come from companies like GM and Roman. 

We bought a washer and dryer last year. Had to wait about a week. Had a pool put in this summer. Supply issues caused some minor delays but nothing major at all. Was finished just a couple weeks behind schedule. 

In my neck of the woods gas prices are down almost a dollar from where they were a couple months ago. 

I mean, I’m in the business. 20-70% increases on material in a year is insane. And I’m still facing supply issues on a ton of products. Unless we were only talking about eggs? 

No I was talking about what I mentioned. Yeah the cost of shit is absolutely insane right now--absolutely agree. But hopefully the trends from these latest reports over the summer continue and inflation really has peaked. 

nicknyr15

The Juggler said:

nicknyr15 said:

The Juggler said:

nicknyr15 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Has anyone heard anything about the supply chain issue of late? I went to buy eggs and there was a sign up about a shortage but I still bought a dozen. Should I have gotten more? Like 4 dozen? Can you freeze them? Like an embryo?

Have you tried to buy appliances? Had any construction done lately? Paint? I’m dealing with supply chain issues everyday. Not to mention 20-70% increases on most products. With more increases to come from companies like GM and Roman. 

We bought a washer and dryer last year. Had to wait about a week. Had a pool put in this summer. Supply issues caused some minor delays but nothing major at all. Was finished just a couple weeks behind schedule. 

In my neck of the woods gas prices are down almost a dollar from where they were a couple months ago. 

I mean, I’m in the business. 20-70% increases on material in a year is insane. And I’m still facing supply issues on a ton of products. Unless we were only talking about eggs? 

No I was talking about what I mentioned. Yeah the cost of shit is absolutely insane right now--absolutely agree. But hopefully the trends from these latest reports over the summer continue and inflation really has peaked. 

Yea I hope so.