#46 President Joe Biden

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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,681
    mrussel1 said:
    My apologies if I missed someone else posting this..but why is Biden’s office being cleaned out two years after he left?  I think whomever was in charge of maintaining classified documents for history is in trouble and that because of the huge mistake they’re now finally looking at what may have been missed in the past.  Just seems strange that two years pass before he decides to have it packed up.  
    I think he has maintained that office until very recently.  It's located in DC and part of the Biden Center.  While it's somewhat unusual for someone to be in gov't, leave, then come back, I don't think there was anything unethical or illegal about having the office while president. 
    I also heard he had been receiving a 6-figure stipend for maintaining that office.
    Which, if true, would piss me off as a student with loans to know my money was going towards paying someone who is never there and doesn't need the money.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,544
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    My apologies if I missed someone else posting this..but why is Biden’s office being cleaned out two years after he left?  I think whomever was in charge of maintaining classified documents for history is in trouble and that because of the huge mistake they’re now finally looking at what may have been missed in the past.  Just seems strange that two years pass before he decides to have it packed up.  
    I think he has maintained that office until very recently.  It's located in DC and part of the Biden Center.  While it's somewhat unusual for someone to be in gov't, leave, then come back, I don't think there was anything unethical or illegal about having the office while president. 
    I also heard he had been receiving a 6-figure stipend for maintaining that office.
    Which, if true, would piss me off as a student with loans to know my money was going towards paying someone who is never there and doesn't need the money.
    Did you go to Penn (a private school)?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,681
    And my guess is that Biden didn’t even remember taking them, which is even scarier.  
    I thought the same thing. Either doesn't remember taking them, or forgot he didn't turn them back over. But that makes me wonder how loosely classified docs are handled? If my local library can remember what I checked out and send me an email if I forget to return them on time, why can't the national archive? I'm surprised to learn that they don't keep track of where documents are, who has them, how many and for how long. 
    Even if it is just printing out a classified email, there should be a process for that.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 27,377
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    My apologies if I missed someone else posting this..but why is Biden’s office being cleaned out two years after he left?  I think whomever was in charge of maintaining classified documents for history is in trouble and that because of the huge mistake they’re now finally looking at what may have been missed in the past.  Just seems strange that two years pass before he decides to have it packed up.  
    I think he has maintained that office until very recently.  It's located in DC and part of the Biden Center.  While it's somewhat unusual for someone to be in gov't, leave, then come back, I don't think there was anything unethical or illegal about having the office while president. 
    I also heard he had been receiving a 6-figure stipend for maintaining that office.
    Which, if true, would piss me off as a student with loans to know my money was going towards paying someone who is never there and doesn't need the money.

    no. YOUR payments were paying back the money you were loaned. All former POTUS and VP get a budget for office space and USSS protection.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,681
    edited January 17
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    My apologies if I missed someone else posting this..but why is Biden’s office being cleaned out two years after he left?  I think whomever was in charge of maintaining classified documents for history is in trouble and that because of the huge mistake they’re now finally looking at what may have been missed in the past.  Just seems strange that two years pass before he decides to have it packed up.  
    I think he has maintained that office until very recently.  It's located in DC and part of the Biden Center.  While it's somewhat unusual for someone to be in gov't, leave, then come back, I don't think there was anything unethical or illegal about having the office while president. 
    I also heard he had been receiving a 6-figure stipend for maintaining that office.
    Which, if true, would piss me off as a student with loans to know my money was going towards paying someone who is never there and doesn't need the money.

    no. YOUR payments were paying back the money you were loaned. All former POTUS and VP get a budget for office space and USSS protection.
    Thats like saying the money isn't going towards my car, its going towards the loan for my car. Same thing, The money was originally used to purchase a car, and I'm paying back the loan. 
    And as I understood , the university gave him that salary for being part of whatever that office was. And while a student is paying back student loans, that money that they are paying back went to the university, and some of it went towards paying Biden several hundred thousand dollars to have an office he never used, and was somewhat abandoned. Just not a great use of university funds in my opinion. But I doubt that is uncommon practice. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,544
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    My apologies if I missed someone else posting this..but why is Biden’s office being cleaned out two years after he left?  I think whomever was in charge of maintaining classified documents for history is in trouble and that because of the huge mistake they’re now finally looking at what may have been missed in the past.  Just seems strange that two years pass before he decides to have it packed up.  
    I think he has maintained that office until very recently.  It's located in DC and part of the Biden Center.  While it's somewhat unusual for someone to be in gov't, leave, then come back, I don't think there was anything unethical or illegal about having the office while president. 
    I also heard he had been receiving a 6-figure stipend for maintaining that office.
    Which, if true, would piss me off as a student with loans to know my money was going towards paying someone who is never there and doesn't need the money.

    no. YOUR payments were paying back the money you were loaned. All former POTUS and VP get a budget for office space and USSS protection.
    Thats like saying the money isn't going towards my car, its going towards the loan for my car. Same thing, The money was originally used to purchase a car, and I'm paying back the loan. 
    And as I understood , the university gave him that salary for being part of whatever that office was. And while a student is paying back student loans, that money that they are paying back went to the university, and some of it went towards paying Biden several hundred thousand dollars to have an office he never used, and was somewhat abandoned. Just not a great use of university funds in my opinion. But I doubt that is uncommon practice. 
    Penn has a 20 billion dollar endowment.  Biden's office has little to do with its tuition amount or the loans taken by its students. If they wanted to reduce student burden,  they could do that easily.  
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,681
    edited January 17
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    My apologies if I missed someone else posting this..but why is Biden’s office being cleaned out two years after he left?  I think whomever was in charge of maintaining classified documents for history is in trouble and that because of the huge mistake they’re now finally looking at what may have been missed in the past.  Just seems strange that two years pass before he decides to have it packed up.  
    I think he has maintained that office until very recently.  It's located in DC and part of the Biden Center.  While it's somewhat unusual for someone to be in gov't, leave, then come back, I don't think there was anything unethical or illegal about having the office while president. 
    I also heard he had been receiving a 6-figure stipend for maintaining that office.
    Which, if true, would piss me off as a student with loans to know my money was going towards paying someone who is never there and doesn't need the money.

    no. YOUR payments were paying back the money you were loaned. All former POTUS and VP get a budget for office space and USSS protection.
    Thats like saying the money isn't going towards my car, its going towards the loan for my car. Same thing, The money was originally used to purchase a car, and I'm paying back the loan. 
    And as I understood , the university gave him that salary for being part of whatever that office was. And while a student is paying back student loans, that money that they are paying back went to the university, and some of it went towards paying Biden several hundred thousand dollars to have an office he never used, and was somewhat abandoned. Just not a great use of university funds in my opinion. But I doubt that is uncommon practice. 
    Penn has a 20 billion dollar endowment.  Biden's office has little to do with its tuition amount or the loans taken by its students. If they wanted to reduce student burden,  they could do that easily.  
    Completely agree. Just on principal it would irritate me. Why pay someone high 6 figures to never be there? On principle it would bother me if I was attending that school. Like I said, I'm sure it is common practice, but would still irritate me. I'm guessing the school just wanted his name and thats what they were paying him for. Still a waste of money in my opinion. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 35,302
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    My apologies if I missed someone else posting this..but why is Biden’s office being cleaned out two years after he left?  I think whomever was in charge of maintaining classified documents for history is in trouble and that because of the huge mistake they’re now finally looking at what may have been missed in the past.  Just seems strange that two years pass before he decides to have it packed up.  
    I think he has maintained that office until very recently.  It's located in DC and part of the Biden Center.  While it's somewhat unusual for someone to be in gov't, leave, then come back, I don't think there was anything unethical or illegal about having the office while president. 
    I also heard he had been receiving a 6-figure stipend for maintaining that office.
    Which, if true, would piss me off as a student with loans to know my money was going towards paying someone who is never there and doesn't need the money.

    no. YOUR payments were paying back the money you were loaned. All former POTUS and VP get a budget for office space and USSS protection.
    Thats like saying the money isn't going towards my car, its going towards the loan for my car. Same thing, The money was originally used to purchase a car, and I'm paying back the loan. 
    And as I understood , the university gave him that salary for being part of whatever that office was. And while a student is paying back student loans, that money that they are paying back went to the university, and some of it went towards paying Biden several hundred thousand dollars to have an office he never used, and was somewhat abandoned. Just not a great use of university funds in my opinion. But I doubt that is uncommon practice. 
    Penn has a 20 billion dollar endowment.  Biden's office has little to do with its tuition amount or the loans taken by its students. If they wanted to reduce student burden,  they could do that easily.  
    Completely agree. Just on principal it would irritate me. Why pay someone high 6 figures to never be there? On principle it would bother me if I was attending that school. Like I said, I'm sure it is common practice, but would still irritate me. I'm guessing the school just wanted his name and thats what they were paying him for. Still a waste of money in my opinion. 
    This is why I want to be a politician.  You get money for doing absolutely nothing...
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,431
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    My apologies if I missed someone else posting this..but why is Biden’s office being cleaned out two years after he left?  I think whomever was in charge of maintaining classified documents for history is in trouble and that because of the huge mistake they’re now finally looking at what may have been missed in the past.  Just seems strange that two years pass before he decides to have it packed up.  
    I think he has maintained that office until very recently.  It's located in DC and part of the Biden Center.  While it's somewhat unusual for someone to be in gov't, leave, then come back, I don't think there was anything unethical or illegal about having the office while president. 
    I also heard he had been receiving a 6-figure stipend for maintaining that office.
    Which, if true, would piss me off as a student with loans to know my money was going towards paying someone who is never there and doesn't need the money.

    no. YOUR payments were paying back the money you were loaned. All former POTUS and VP get a budget for office space and USSS protection.
    Thats like saying the money isn't going towards my car, its going towards the loan for my car. Same thing, The money was originally used to purchase a car, and I'm paying back the loan. 
    And as I understood , the university gave him that salary for being part of whatever that office was. And while a student is paying back student loans, that money that they are paying back went to the university, and some of it went towards paying Biden several hundred thousand dollars to have an office he never used, and was somewhat abandoned. Just not a great use of university funds in my opinion. But I doubt that is uncommon practice. 
    Penn has a 20 billion dollar endowment.  Biden's office has little to do with its tuition amount or the loans taken by its students. If they wanted to reduce student burden,  they could do that easily.  
    Completely agree. Just on principal it would irritate me. Why pay someone high 6 figures to never be there? On principle it would bother me if I was attending that school. Like I said, I'm sure it is common practice, but would still irritate me. I'm guessing the school just wanted his name and thats what they were paying him for. Still a waste of money in my opinion. 
    This is why I want to be a politician.  You get money for doing absolutely nothing...
    reminded me of "monay for nothin and your chicks for free!!"
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 27,377

     
    FBI searched Biden home, found documents marked classified
    By ZEKE MILLER, MICHAEL BALSAMO and COLLEEN LONG
    9 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The FBI searched President Joe Biden’s home in Wilmington, Delaware on Friday and located six additional documents containing classified markings and also took possession of some of his notes, the president’s lawyer said Saturday.

    The documents taken by the FBI spanned Biden's time in the Senate and the vice presidency, while the notes dated to his time as vice president, said Bob Bauer, the president’s personal lawyer. He added that the search of the entire premises lasted nearly 13 hours. The level of classification, and whether the documents removed by the FBI remained classified, was not immediately clear as the Justice Department reviews the records.

    The extraordinary search followed more than a week after Biden’s attorneys found six classified documents in the president’s home library from his time as vice president, and nearly three months after lawyers found a “small number” of classified records at his former offices at the Penn Biden Center in Washington. It came a day after Biden maintained that “there’s no there there” on the document discoveries, which have become a political headache as he prepares to launch a reelection bid and undercut his efforts to portray an image of propriety to the American public after the tumultuous presidency of his predecessor, Donald Trump.

    “We found a handful of documents were filed in the wrong place,” Biden told reporters Thursday in California. “We immediately turned them over to the Archives and the Justice Department.”

    Biden added that he was “fully cooperating and looking forward to getting this resolved quickly.”

    The president and first lady Jill Biden were not at the home when it was searched. They were spending the weekend at their home in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware.

    It remains to be seen whether additional searches by federal officials of other locations might be conducted. Biden's personal attorneys previously conducted a search of the Rehoboth Beach residence and said they did not find any official documents or classified records.

    The Biden investigation has also complicated the Justice Department’s probe into Trump’s retention of classified documents and official records after he left office. The Justice Department says Trump took hundreds of records marked classified with him upon leaving the White House in early 2021 and resisted months of requests to return them to the government, and that it had to obtain a search warrant to retrieve them.

    Bauer said the FBI requested that the White House not comment on the search before it was conducted, and that Biden's personal and White House attorneys were present. The FBI, he added, “had full access to the President’s home, including personally handwritten notes, files, papers, binders, memorabilia, to-do lists, schedules, and reminders going back decades."

    The Justice Department, he added, “took possession of materials it deemed within the scope of its inquiry, including six items consisting of documents with classification markings and surrounding materials, some of which were from the President’s service in the Senate and some of which were from his tenure as Vice President."

    Attorney General Merrick Garland has appointed former Maryland U.S. Attorney Robert Hur as a special counsel to investigate any potential wrongdoing surrounding the Biden documents. Hur is set to take over from the Trump-appointed Illinois U.S. Attorney John Lausch in overseeing the probe.

    “Since the beginning, the President has been committed to handling this responsibly because he takes this seriously,” White House lawyer Richard Sauber said Saturday. “The President’s lawyers and White House Counsel’s Office will continue to cooperate with DOJ and the Special Counsel to help ensure this process is conducted swiftly and efficiently.”

    The Biden document discoveries and the investigation into Trump, which is in the hands of special counsel Jack Smith, are significantly different. Biden has made a point of cooperating with the DOJ probe at every turn — and Friday's search was voluntary — though questions about his transparency with the public remain.

    For a crime to have been committed, a person would have to “knowingly remove” the documents without authority and intend to keep them at an “unauthorized location.” Biden has said he was “surprised” that classified documents were uncovered at the Penn Biden Center.

    Generally, classified documents are to be declassified after a maximum of 25 years. But some records are of such value they remain classified for far longer, though specific exceptions must be granted. Biden served in the Senate from 1973 to 2009.

    ___

    Associated Press writer Seung Min Kim in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, contributed to this report.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 26,288
    Just impeach the old dude already! 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,952
    Just impeach the old dude already! 
    That’s what’s funny about this, not only are they terrified of the idea of president Harris, with each emphasis on this being a problem, they indirectly highlight Trump’s hoarding of classified docs. 
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 6,576
    I’m not obsessed with politics so can someone tell me if this issue of classified documents happens often? It’s pretty incredible that it happened to back to back presidents no?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 27,377
    edited January 22
    nicknyr15 said:
    I’m not obsessed with politics so can someone tell me if this issue of classified documents happens often? It’s pretty incredible that it happened to back to back presidents no?

    deliberate retention? I'd  say no.

    Inadvertant? anyone with clearances, but particularly elected officials. all the tine.


    what we dont know yet is what level of classification and the age of at least some of the ones Biden had.
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 20,431
    yeah just impeach him and get it overwith. it will only steel the resolve of the democrats so there will be a blue wave in 2024.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 26,288
    The way I see it is that Biden’s team didn’t jump on this issue as soon as the Trumpolinni mess was brought to light if that’s true? It’s absolutely idiotic at best 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,647
    nicknyr15 said:
    I’m not obsessed with politics so can someone tell me if this issue of classified documents happens often? It’s pretty incredible that it happened to back to back presidents no?

    I'd be willing to bet it does but the media holds off on these things waiting for slow news days.  But that, of course, is what they call a "wilded ass guess"!
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 15,267
    nicknyr15 said:
    I’m not obsessed with politics so can someone tell me if this issue of classified documents happens often? It’s pretty incredible that it happened to back to back presidents no?
    Probably...but the level of classification is the real issue and we just don't know that yet. "Classified markings" sounds serious but might not reveal much information to anyone especially if the information is 10 years old.

    I don't think it is out of the question to find certain (not top secret docs that can only be viewed in a SCIF, or Dept of Defense docs, etc.) classified docs in boxes of information that a former Senator, VP, Cabinet Member, POTUS, might have in their office or possession. It's not like random people will get anywhere near Biden's house or Mar-A-Lago (although more likely there since it is a club) so some of this is dramatized.

    This weekend I was watching MTP or something and they referred to "a half a dozen classified documents were found at Biden's residence" and my first thought was it is fucking SIX documents. The media hypes this stuff whether it is left or right.

    The questions will be:
    1. What was the level of classification?
    2. Is the information still classified?
    3. Depending on the level of classification, how could the documents be carried away?

    And then we need to remember that tRump's team basically refused to admit they had any documents which led to the FBI extracting over 300 documents.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland1, Oakland2, Nashville, Louisville 
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,654
    nicknyr15 said:
    I’m not obsessed with politics so can someone tell me if this issue of classified documents happens often? It’s pretty incredible that it happened to back to back presidents no?
    Probably...but the level of classification is the real issue and we just don't know that yet. "Classified markings" sounds serious but might not reveal much information to anyone especially if the information is 10 years old.

    I don't think it is out of the question to find certain (not top secret docs that can only be viewed in a SCIF, or Dept of Defense docs, etc.) classified docs in boxes of information that a former Senator, VP, Cabinet Member, POTUS, might have in their office or possession. It's not like random people will get anywhere near Biden's house or Mar-A-Lago (although more likely there since it is a club) so some of this is dramatized.

    This weekend I was watching MTP or something and they referred to "a half a dozen classified documents were found at Biden's residence" and my first thought was it is fucking SIX documents. The media hypes this stuff whether it is left or right.

    The questions will be:
    1. What was the level of classification?
    2. Is the information still classified?
    3. Depending on the level of classification, how could the documents be carried away?

    And then we need to remember that tRump's team basically refused to admit they had any documents which led to the FBI extracting over 300 documents.
    I don't think we should just rule on this based on the politician's assumed intent. Fact is, if there are classification markings on a document, they should be kept securely. If they aren't kept securely, there should be consequences regardless of the politician. If no damage is done based on the contents of the documents - great - but a politician suffering a political consequence of their negligence is warranted in my opinion.

    On the topic of the 'six documents', it was six additional documents over the last batch, and since these security clearances exist for a reason, regardless of the count, all breaches should be investigated.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 15,267
    benjs said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    I’m not obsessed with politics so can someone tell me if this issue of classified documents happens often? It’s pretty incredible that it happened to back to back presidents no?
    Probably...but the level of classification is the real issue and we just don't know that yet. "Classified markings" sounds serious but might not reveal much information to anyone especially if the information is 10 years old.

    I don't think it is out of the question to find certain (not top secret docs that can only be viewed in a SCIF, or Dept of Defense docs, etc.) classified docs in boxes of information that a former Senator, VP, Cabinet Member, POTUS, might have in their office or possession. It's not like random people will get anywhere near Biden's house or Mar-A-Lago (although more likely there since it is a club) so some of this is dramatized.

    This weekend I was watching MTP or something and they referred to "a half a dozen classified documents were found at Biden's residence" and my first thought was it is fucking SIX documents. The media hypes this stuff whether it is left or right.

    The questions will be:
    1. What was the level of classification?
    2. Is the information still classified?
    3. Depending on the level of classification, how could the documents be carried away?

    And then we need to remember that tRump's team basically refused to admit they had any documents which led to the FBI extracting over 300 documents.
    I don't think we should just rule on this based on the politician's assumed intent. Fact is, if there are classification markings on a document, they should be kept securely. If they aren't kept securely, there should be consequences regardless of the politician. If no damage is done based on the contents of the documents - great - but a politician suffering a political consequence of their negligence is warranted in my opinion.

    On the topic of the 'six documents', it was six additional documents over the last batch, and since these security clearances exist for a reason, regardless of the count, all breaches should be investigated.

    yes six additional...not sure what the total is for sure

    I do think intent is important though once we find out whether the docs are even still considered classified. 

    I think all of this is fair but to be truly fair they would need to search all of Obama's offices, Bush's offices, etc. Why stop with Biden/Trump?
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland1, Oakland2, Nashville, Louisville 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 27,377

     
    Legal, political strategy in letting FBI search Biden's home
    By ZEKE MILLER, ERIC TUCKER and COLLEEN LONG
    40 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden’s decision allowing the FBI to search his home in Delaware last week is laying him open to fresh negative attention and embarrassment following the earlier discoveries of classified documents at that home and a former office. But it’s a legal and political calculation that aides hope will pay off in the long run as he prepares to seek reelection.

    The remarkable, nearly 13-hour search by FBI agents of the sitting president's Wilmington home is the latest political black eye for Biden, who promised to restore propriety to the office after the tumultuous tenure of his predecessor, Donald Trump.

    But with his actions, Biden is doing more than simply complying with federal investigators assigned to look into the discovery of the records. The president is aiming to show that, unlike Trump, he never intended to retain classified materials — a key distinction that experts say diminishes the risks of criminal liability.

    White House spokesman Ian Sams said Monday that Biden’s own attorneys invited the FBI to conduct the search. “This was a voluntary proactive offer by the president’s personal lawyers to DOJ to have access to the home,” he said, adding that it reflected “how seriously” Biden is taking the issue.

    Mary McCord, a former senior Justice Department national security official, said, “If I was a lawyer and I represented the president of the United States and I wanted to show, ’I am being fully cooperative, and I do care to be projecting transparency to the American public, and I do take this seriously,' I think this is the advice I would give as well.”

    That's not to say she approves of his handling of the documents.

    “I think it’s wrong that he had those documents there," she said. "It shows lapses at the end of the administration,” when Biden was completing his time as vice president under Barack Obama.

    Biden's personal attorneys first discovered classified materials on Nov. 2, a week before the midterm elections, as they were clearing out an office Biden had used at the Penn Biden Center in Washington. Since that initial discovery, Biden's team has adopted an accommodating approach to the investigation, even if they haven't been completely transparent in public.

    They didn't acknowledge the first discovery before the elections, though they swiftly notified the National Archives, returned the documents the day after they were found and coordinated subsequent searches and discoveries with the Department of Justice.

    They also are not standing in the way of interviews of staff, including Kathy Chung, Biden's executive assistant when he was vice president, who helped oversee the packing of boxes that were taken to the Penn Biden Center.

    She feels some responsibility but had “absolutely” no knowledge of classified documents being packed, according to a person familiar with her thinking. The person spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation.

    Biden himself has said he was surprised the documents were in his possession. Last Thursday, frustrated at all the focus, he told reporters: “There's no there there.”

    It all fits a theme: Biden and his aides maintain the document mishandling was not intentional. As far as Biden's possible legal exposure goes, the question of intention is critical: Federal law does not allow anyone to store classified documents in an unauthorized location, but it's only a prosecutable crime when someone is found to have “knowingly" removed the documents from a proper place.

    Still, welcoming the FBI search could backfire depending on what else might be found. Agents last week took possession of an additional round of items with classified markings, and some of Biden's handwritten notes and materials from his tenure as vice president and senator.

    That's in addition to the documents already turned in by Biden's lawyers. Agents could also choose to search the Penn Biden Center and Biden's other home in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, as the probe continues. Sams declined to say whether Biden would sign off on additional searches, referring the matter to the DOJ — which has asked the White House not to publicize searches in advance.

    Criticism of Biden's handling of the matter has come from Democrats as well as Republicans. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said the president should be “embarrassed by the situation.”

    “I think he should have a lot of regrets,” added Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va. Even Biden’s own attorneys have called it a “mistake.”

    Republicans, meanwhile, have sought to use their new-found powers in the House, where they regained the majority this month, to investigate Biden’s handling of the documents and hope to capitalize on the investigation.

    “It is troubling that classified documents have been improperly stored at the home of President Biden for at least six years, raising questions about who may have reviewed or had access to classified information,” House Oversight Chairman James Comer, R-Tenn., wrote in asking for visitor logs to Biden's residence.

    Responding to Comer's requests for copies of the documents taken from Biden's home, the White House counsel's office on Monday said it no longer had possession of them. It said the White House would “accommodate legitimate oversight interests,” while also “respecting the separation of powers and the constitutional and statutory obligations of the executive branch generally and the White House in particular.”

    Trump and some of his supporters have been outspoken, claiming Biden is guilty of worse mishandling of classified documents than the Democrats sanctimoniously accuse Trump of being. The former president is sure to press that accusation vigorously as he campaigns to regain the White House.

    The investigation of Trump also centers on classified documents that ended up at a home. In that case, though, the Justice Department issued a subpoena for the return of documents that Trump had refused to give back, then obtained a warrant and seized more than 100 documents during a dramatic August search of his Florida estate, Mar-a-Lago. Federal agents are investigating potential violations of three federal laws, including one that governs gathering, transmitting or losing defense information under the Espionage Act.

    In 2016, when the FBI recommended against criminal charges for Hillary Clinton over classified emails she sent and received via a private server when she was secretary of state, then-FBI Director James Comey said the Justice Department —in choosing which cases to bring over the past century — has looked for evidence of criminal intent, indications of disloyalty to the U.S., retention of vast quantities of classified documents or any effort to obstruct justice.

    It's not clear whether agents in the Biden investigation have progressed beyond the question of intent. The White House has not answered key questions, including how classified information from his time as vice president could have ended up inside his Delaware home. But Attorney General Merrick Garland appointed a special counsel to head the probe given the sensitive politics around it.

    Garland declared on Monday, in answer to a question: “We do not have different rules for Democrats or Republicans. ... We apply the facts under the law in each case in a neutral and nonpartisan manner. That is what we always do and that is what we are doing in the matters you are referring to."

    One key test of the limits of Biden’s strategy revolves around the question of whether the president will agree to an interview with federal investigators if he is asked. White House officials thus far have refused to say whether or under what terms he would do so.

    There could also be consequences outside of criminal prosecution for any staffer found to have mishandled classified documents, including ramifications on security clearances necessary for national security work.

    Meanwhile, Biden and his staff are trying to refocus the media and public back on his agenda. White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre has said she will not answer questions on the investigation during her daily briefings, instead referring most queries to the Justice Department, White House lawyers or Biden's personal attorneys.


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  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,654
    benjs said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    I’m not obsessed with politics so can someone tell me if this issue of classified documents happens often? It’s pretty incredible that it happened to back to back presidents no?
    Probably...but the level of classification is the real issue and we just don't know that yet. "Classified markings" sounds serious but might not reveal much information to anyone especially if the information is 10 years old.

    I don't think it is out of the question to find certain (not top secret docs that can only be viewed in a SCIF, or Dept of Defense docs, etc.) classified docs in boxes of information that a former Senator, VP, Cabinet Member, POTUS, might have in their office or possession. It's not like random people will get anywhere near Biden's house or Mar-A-Lago (although more likely there since it is a club) so some of this is dramatized.

    This weekend I was watching MTP or something and they referred to "a half a dozen classified documents were found at Biden's residence" and my first thought was it is fucking SIX documents. The media hypes this stuff whether it is left or right.

    The questions will be:
    1. What was the level of classification?
    2. Is the information still classified?
    3. Depending on the level of classification, how could the documents be carried away?

    And then we need to remember that tRump's team basically refused to admit they had any documents which led to the FBI extracting over 300 documents.
    I don't think we should just rule on this based on the politician's assumed intent. Fact is, if there are classification markings on a document, they should be kept securely. If they aren't kept securely, there should be consequences regardless of the politician. If no damage is done based on the contents of the documents - great - but a politician suffering a political consequence of their negligence is warranted in my opinion.

    On the topic of the 'six documents', it was six additional documents over the last batch, and since these security clearances exist for a reason, regardless of the count, all breaches should be investigated.

    yes six additional...not sure what the total is for sure

    I do think intent is important though once we find out whether the docs are even still considered classified. 

    I think all of this is fair but to be truly fair they would need to search all of Obama's offices, Bush's offices, etc. Why stop with Biden/Trump?
    I think the more important thing is evaluating the document security procedures, personally. That said, politicians would prefer a witch hunt against their enemy in 100% of cases, so that's one of many reasons I wouldn't do well in politics :) 
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 35,302
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    My apologies if I missed someone else posting this..but why is Biden’s office being cleaned out two years after he left?  I think whomever was in charge of maintaining classified documents for history is in trouble and that because of the huge mistake they’re now finally looking at what may have been missed in the past.  Just seems strange that two years pass before he decides to have it packed up.  
    I think he has maintained that office until very recently.  It's located in DC and part of the Biden Center.  While it's somewhat unusual for someone to be in gov't, leave, then come back, I don't think there was anything unethical or illegal about having the office while president. 
    I also heard he had been receiving a 6-figure stipend for maintaining that office.
    Which, if true, would piss me off as a student with loans to know my money was going towards paying someone who is never there and doesn't need the money.

    no. YOUR payments were paying back the money you were loaned. All former POTUS and VP get a budget for office space and USSS protection.
    Thats like saying the money isn't going towards my car, its going towards the loan for my car. Same thing, The money was originally used to purchase a car, and I'm paying back the loan. 
    And as I understood , the university gave him that salary for being part of whatever that office was. And while a student is paying back student loans, that money that they are paying back went to the university, and some of it went towards paying Biden several hundred thousand dollars to have an office he never used, and was somewhat abandoned. Just not a great use of university funds in my opinion. But I doubt that is uncommon practice. 
    Penn has a 20 billion dollar endowment.  Biden's office has little to do with its tuition amount or the loans taken by its students. If they wanted to reduce student burden,  they could do that easily.  
    Completely agree. Just on principal it would irritate me. Why pay someone high 6 figures to never be there? On principle it would bother me if I was attending that school. Like I said, I'm sure it is common practice, but would still irritate me. I'm guessing the school just wanted his name and thats what they were paying him for. Still a waste of money in my opinion. 
    This is why I want to be a politician.  You get money for doing absolutely nothing...
    reminded me of "monay for nothin and your chicks for free!!"
    lol, seriously.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,674
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,544
    The score is now 2-1.  Democrats take the lead back and have regained moral authority!
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 6,576
    Is this all a joke ? Wtf is going on ? Who’s next? 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 33,509
    nicknyr15 said:
    Is this all a joke ? Wtf is going on ? Who’s next? 
    I'm guessing Stone. he has the classified documents on why Dave A was fired next to his Grammy award in his basement. 
    I'm through with screaming...

    Darwinspeed, folks...I'm out


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,544
    nicknyr15 said:
    Is this all a joke ? Wtf is going on ? Who’s next? 
    I don't know, but it's kind of hilariously funny.  


  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 6,576
    mrussel1 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    Is this all a joke ? Wtf is going on ? Who’s next? 
    I don't know, but it's kind of hilariously funny.  


    I don’t know man. It’s kind of embarrassing from all sides. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 35,302
    I'm guessing that every person has classified crap laying around.  Hillary had it in her emails, Pence, Trump and Biden had files.  I bet Obama had some on that hotrod Blackberry he loved so much, lol!
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