#46 President Joe Biden

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 27,273
    nicknyr15 said:
    I really don’t know enough or can relate to this. I’ve never had student loan debt. At first , it sounded good. But the more I read into it, the more it sounds like a whole lot of nothing. I don’t think this will really do much going forward. I read an article and this paragraph stuck out the most to me :

    Any serious discussion surrounding student debt would ask the fundamental question of how best to reduce tuition price tags, as ours dwarf those of peer nations. But this isn’t a serious discussion. It is a bribe to Biden’s base in anticipation of the midterm elections, and the US taxpayers are the ones footing the bill.

    the first sentence is the obvious problem. The second is more of an attack on Biden , but how true is that about taxpayers footing the bill? Will this really cost us 300 billion? 
    someone needs remadial math if they are coming up with 300 billion.

    capped at 10k and pell recipients get up to 20k. just how many people do they think is going to utilize this to add up to 300 billion?

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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,025
    mickeyrat said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    I really don’t know enough or can relate to this. I’ve never had student loan debt. At first , it sounded good. But the more I read into it, the more it sounds like a whole lot of nothing. I don’t think this will really do much going forward. I read an article and this paragraph stuck out the most to me :

    Any serious discussion surrounding student debt would ask the fundamental question of how best to reduce tuition price tags, as ours dwarf those of peer nations. But this isn’t a serious discussion. It is a bribe to Biden’s base in anticipation of the midterm elections, and the US taxpayers are the ones footing the bill.

    the first sentence is the obvious problem. The second is more of an attack on Biden , but how true is that about taxpayers footing the bill? Will this really cost us 300 billion? 
    someone needs remadial math if they are coming up with 300 billion.

    capped at 10k and pell recipients get up to 20k. just how many people do they think is going to utilize this to add up to 300 billion?

    $300 billion, I think, is pretty accurate. Trump's tax cuts for the wealthy added $2.3 trillion just to put thing in context for people though. lol
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  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 14,855
    Goldman Sachs said it could be 400 billion.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 27,273
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,025
    Goldman Sachs said it could be 400 billion.
    They also say it will not make inflation worse, which was what I was originally concerned with. 
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2022/08/25/student-loan-forgiveness-plan-wont-make-inflation-worse-even-if-it-adds-400-billion-to-deficit-goldman-says/?sh=6ced2c022e77
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,025
    mickeyrat said:
    There is literally no subject these people are not hypocritical about. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 7,720
    mickeyrat said:
    There is literally no subject these people are not hypocritical about. 
    Is that not the point though? “Rules for thee, not for me” is a supremacist viewpoint. 

    The hypocrisy is a virtue for them. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,659
    edited August 2022
    Loan forgiveness is a terrible idea.
    One, it does zero to reduce to cost. So it’s pointless.
    But mostly, you agree to take a loan you should be responsible to pay it back. Not pass it off into other taxpayers. It’s not about fairness to those who just paid it off, I don’t care about that. If it was a gift from China then that’d one thing. But you’re “forgiving” it by passing it on to the rest of us.

    The reasons of they’re just drowning in debt and school is so expensive don’t do it for me. How many drowning in student loan debt considered other options like going to a 2 year school first? There are ways to drastically cut the cost back if that is your goal. There are plenty of people drowning in credit card debt too, should we forgive that with tax money? You chose to take out tens of thousands to attend a 4 year school, and most likely partied the first 2 years. That’s great. I wish you the best. Don’t pay off your debt with my taxes though.

    I also think PPP loan forgiveness was a bad idea.
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,162
    mace1229 said:
    Loan forgiveness is a terrible idea.
    One, it does zero to reduce to cost. So it’s pointless.
    But mostly, you agree to take a loan you should be responsible to pay it back. Not pass it off into other taxpayers. It’s not about fairness to those who just paid it off, I don’t care about that. If it was a gift from China then that’d one thing. But you’re “forgiving” it by passing it on to the rest of us.

    The reasons of they’re just drowning in debt and school is so expensive don’t do it for me. How many drowning in student loan debt considered other options like going to a 2 year school first? There are ways to drastically cut the cost back if that is your goal. There are plenty of people drowning in credit card debt too, should we forgive that with tax money? You chose to take out tens of thousands to attend a 4 year school, and most likely partied the first 2 years. That’s great. I wish you the best. Don’t pay off your debt with my taxes though.

    I also think PPP loan forgiveness was a bad idea.
    Are you ok with giveaways to Booz Allen, Lockheed Martin and Boeing via the Dod to the tune of $800bn a year plus the unknown number of dollars spent on the three letter agencies that supposedly protect our nation.  This is a fraction of that. One time and actually helps struggling citizens.  If you are concerned about taxes and debt, join the anti war movement, push to bring our troops home close US military bases on foreign soil, stop contracts to defense oligarchs and reign in obnoxious military spending.

    This situation is nothing like credit card debt.  This is loans backed by the government that were supposed to help educate American and lead them to a better life.  Instead it led to ballooning tuition costs fueled by schools business departments seeing a golden ticket that would always come in whether kids finished school or not.  In the process it made a killing for loan servicers.  To circle back to my personal situation, I took out $14,000 to go to a trade program at a local community college...Just for the cost of school.  I still worked three jobs during that time to eat and pay the rent and try to enjoy life for a little while.  I have now paid $16,000 on said $14,000 loan with a balance left of about $10k...This is robbery, not a system designed to get the American citizen ahead. As it is the current system creates massive profits for schools and loan servicers and limited gains for students.

    There is no moral high ground to say that people should be required to ruin their lives in the shadow of an unsurmountable debt burden., that society nudged them toward every minute of their formative years.  I feel for the people that have six figure loans..They may have finished their degree with an $80,000 or less balance but that interest keeps growing and growing until it swallows you.   The right thing to do would be to cap the cost of the loan at the amount borrowed plus a servicing fee, ie enough to pay for administrative costs, not use student loans as a way to create capital gain through compounding interest.  Use the new system and evaluate all existing loans and see if people have paid the cost of the loan plus the cost of servicing.  Student loans as a way to pad someone's portfolio is criminal and dare I say evil.


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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 4,471
    dankind said:
    I just did a tax return for a 25 year old kid that lost $17K gambling through Barstool and another sports app.

    Winnings were around $60K...losses $77K

    I mean holy shit....horrible idea
    It's like taking out student loans for a degree in social work.
    Bad example.  That’s a professional degree that enables someone to have an outrageously challenging career.  My wife makes decent money with her MSW (almost as much as me and she only works twice as hard).
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,596
    static111 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Loan forgiveness is a terrible idea.
    One, it does zero to reduce to cost. So it’s pointless.
    But mostly, you agree to take a loan you should be responsible to pay it back. Not pass it off into other taxpayers. It’s not about fairness to those who just paid it off, I don’t care about that. If it was a gift from China then that’d one thing. But you’re “forgiving” it by passing it on to the rest of us.

    The reasons of they’re just drowning in debt and school is so expensive don’t do it for me. How many drowning in student loan debt considered other options like going to a 2 year school first? There are ways to drastically cut the cost back if that is your goal. There are plenty of people drowning in credit card debt too, should we forgive that with tax money? You chose to take out tens of thousands to attend a 4 year school, and most likely partied the first 2 years. That’s great. I wish you the best. Don’t pay off your debt with my taxes though.

    I also think PPP loan forgiveness was a bad idea.
    Are you ok with giveaways to Booz Allen, Lockheed Martin and Boeing via the Dod to the tune of $800bn a year plus the unknown number of dollars spent on the three letter agencies that supposedly protect our nation.  This is a fraction of that. One time and actually helps struggling citizens.  If you are concerned about taxes and debt, join the anti war movement, push to bring our troops home close US military bases on foreign soil, stop contracts to defense oligarchs and reign in obnoxious military spending.

    This situation is nothing like credit card debt.  This is loans backed by the government that were supposed to help educate American and lead them to a better life.  Instead it led to ballooning tuition costs fueled by schools business departments seeing a golden ticket that would always come in whether kids finished school or not.  In the process it made a killing for loan servicers.  To circle back to my personal situation, I took out $14,000 to go to a trade program at a local community college...Just for the cost of school.  I still worked three jobs during that time to eat and pay the rent and try to enjoy life for a little while.  I have now paid $16,000 on said $14,000 loan with a balance left of about $10k...This is robbery, not a system designed to get the American citizen ahead. As it is the current system creates massive profits for schools and loan servicers and limited gains for students.

    There is no moral high ground to say that people should be required to ruin their lives in the shadow of an unsurmountable debt burden., that society nudged them toward every minute of their formative years.  I feel for the people that have six figure loans..They may have finished their degree with an $80,000 or less balance but that interest keeps growing and growing until it swallows you.   The right thing to do would be to cap the cost of the loan at the amount borrowed plus a servicing fee, ie enough to pay for administrative costs, not use student loans as a way to create capital gain through compounding interest.  Use the new system and evaluate all existing loans and see if people have paid the cost of the loan plus the cost of servicing.  Student loans as a way to pad someone's portfolio is criminal and dare I say evil.


    You’ve got a problem with a sector of the economy being monetized and turned into another profit center? What are you, a socialist, communist, fascist, antiiiiiiiiiiiiiiifa, BLM’er dem?
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  • static111static111 Posts: 4,162
    static111 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Loan forgiveness is a terrible idea.
    One, it does zero to reduce to cost. So it’s pointless.
    But mostly, you agree to take a loan you should be responsible to pay it back. Not pass it off into other taxpayers. It’s not about fairness to those who just paid it off, I don’t care about that. If it was a gift from China then that’d one thing. But you’re “forgiving” it by passing it on to the rest of us.

    The reasons of they’re just drowning in debt and school is so expensive don’t do it for me. How many drowning in student loan debt considered other options like going to a 2 year school first? There are ways to drastically cut the cost back if that is your goal. There are plenty of people drowning in credit card debt too, should we forgive that with tax money? You chose to take out tens of thousands to attend a 4 year school, and most likely partied the first 2 years. That’s great. I wish you the best. Don’t pay off your debt with my taxes though.

    I also think PPP loan forgiveness was a bad idea.
    Are you ok with giveaways to Booz Allen, Lockheed Martin and Boeing via the Dod to the tune of $800bn a year plus the unknown number of dollars spent on the three letter agencies that supposedly protect our nation.  This is a fraction of that. One time and actually helps struggling citizens.  If you are concerned about taxes and debt, join the anti war movement, push to bring our troops home close US military bases on foreign soil, stop contracts to defense oligarchs and reign in obnoxious military spending.

    This situation is nothing like credit card debt.  This is loans backed by the government that were supposed to help educate American and lead them to a better life.  Instead it led to ballooning tuition costs fueled by schools business departments seeing a golden ticket that would always come in whether kids finished school or not.  In the process it made a killing for loan servicers.  To circle back to my personal situation, I took out $14,000 to go to a trade program at a local community college...Just for the cost of school.  I still worked three jobs during that time to eat and pay the rent and try to enjoy life for a little while.  I have now paid $16,000 on said $14,000 loan with a balance left of about $10k...This is robbery, not a system designed to get the American citizen ahead. As it is the current system creates massive profits for schools and loan servicers and limited gains for students.

    There is no moral high ground to say that people should be required to ruin their lives in the shadow of an unsurmountable debt burden., that society nudged them toward every minute of their formative years.  I feel for the people that have six figure loans..They may have finished their degree with an $80,000 or less balance but that interest keeps growing and growing until it swallows you.   The right thing to do would be to cap the cost of the loan at the amount borrowed plus a servicing fee, ie enough to pay for administrative costs, not use student loans as a way to create capital gain through compounding interest.  Use the new system and evaluate all existing loans and see if people have paid the cost of the loan plus the cost of servicing.  Student loans as a way to pad someone's portfolio is criminal and dare I say evil.


    You’ve got a problem with a sector of the economy being monetized and turned into another profit center? What are you, a socialist, communist, fascist, antiiiiiiiiiiiiiiifa, BLM’er dem?

    The more I think about it the more I am leaning towards Anarchist or Collectivist.

    So many people whining about cancelling a small amount of debt seem to not really understand what is going on with the current system.  Today after a ranting and raving pro POOTWH supporter was railing about the cancelling of loans over our morning coffee I explained to him my situation and how it relates to others.  He didn't believe me that I could have paid the 16 on 14 and still owe ten. So I opened up my loan servicers account page and showed him, the next tune was that this isn't right and the situation needs to be fixed but giving money away won't solve the problem...what will?  I'm all for a real solution, as long as it doesn't involve waiting for the greater good at sometime in the future that the mythologies of communism and capitalism keep underdelivering on.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,659
    edited August 2022
    static111 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Loan forgiveness is a terrible idea.
    One, it does zero to reduce to cost. So it’s pointless.
    But mostly, you agree to take a loan you should be responsible to pay it back. Not pass it off into other taxpayers. It’s not about fairness to those who just paid it off, I don’t care about that. If it was a gift from China then that’d one thing. But you’re “forgiving” it by passing it on to the rest of us.

    The reasons of they’re just drowning in debt and school is so expensive don’t do it for me. How many drowning in student loan debt considered other options like going to a 2 year school first? There are ways to drastically cut the cost back if that is your goal. There are plenty of people drowning in credit card debt too, should we forgive that with tax money? You chose to take out tens of thousands to attend a 4 year school, and most likely partied the first 2 years. That’s great. I wish you the best. Don’t pay off your debt with my taxes though.

    I also think PPP loan forgiveness was a bad idea.
    Are you ok with giveaways to Booz Allen, Lockheed Martin and Boeing via the Dod to the tune of $800bn a year plus the unknown number of dollars spent on the three letter agencies that supposedly protect our nation.  This is a fraction of that. One time and actually helps struggling citizens.  If you are concerned about taxes and debt, join the anti war movement, push to bring our troops home close US military bases on foreign soil, stop contracts to defense oligarchs and reign in obnoxious military spending.

    This situation is nothing like credit card debt.  This is loans backed by the government that were supposed to help educate American and lead them to a better life.  Instead it led to ballooning tuition costs fueled by schools business departments seeing a golden ticket that would always come in whether kids finished school or not.  In the process it made a killing for loan servicers.  To circle back to my personal situation, I took out $14,000 to go to a trade program at a local community college...Just for the cost of school.  I still worked three jobs during that time to eat and pay the rent and try to enjoy life for a little while.  I have now paid $16,000 on said $14,000 loan with a balance left of about $10k...This is robbery, not a system designed to get the American citizen ahead. As it is the current system creates massive profits for schools and loan servicers and limited gains for students.

    There is no moral high ground to say that people should be required to ruin their lives in the shadow of an unsurmountable debt burden., that society nudged them toward every minute of their formative years.  I feel for the people that have six figure loans..They may have finished their degree with an $80,000 or less balance but that interest keeps growing and growing until it swallows you.   The right thing to do would be to cap the cost of the loan at the amount borrowed plus a servicing fee, ie enough to pay for administrative costs, not use student loans as a way to create capital gain through compounding interest.  Use the new system and evaluate all existing loans and see if people have paid the cost of the loan plus the cost of servicing.  Student loans as a way to pad someone's portfolio is criminal and dare I say evil.


    Wasteful spending in one area doesn’t make other wasteful spending okay.
    I would agree with the last paragraph. You can reduce rates without forgiving the debt. At least I assume you can.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 7,659
    edited August 2022
    I went to a community college first. It was $12 a unit. I got a whole year for a few hundred bucks. I just looked it up, same school is $46 a unit now. You’re making a choice to spend $20,000 a year on school when you can do it for $1000. That was a choice you made.
    I see it no different than choosing to buy a new car or running up a credit card. Why are we bailing out one choice and not the others? Because society pressured them?
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,513
    I'm neither pleased or against this decision.  I wish it wasn't so but I feel bad for people with heavy debt load
     
    But lots of people made bad decisions,  in my opinion.  But the govt allowed and essentially incentivized it with subsidized loans. 

    And this forgiveness will change nothing in the future and the govt will still over lend and people will over borrow.  

    I blame the govt and people. But Washington is so gridlocked and congress is always running the next campaign,  so there's no interest in solving it. But if I could waive a magic wand, I would:

    1. Consider 2 years of community College as a continuation of high school. Not compulsory,  but funded by the DOE. 
    2. If you take the free education,  you must complete some required hours of service,  like a New Deal program.  
    3. "In need" careers like nursing,  health care,  etc. are free.  And eligible certificates/ careers must be evaluated every five years. 
    4. Federal loans have a cap OR you must go to a state school.  Not sure exactly on this one, but the govt should incentivize rational decisions,  not poor ones.  Under privileged kids who are good enough to go Ivy or whatever would receive tuition through the endowments anyways.  

    So if there was a federal cap,  universities would have to hold their tuition down.  The govt would be artificially holding down the cost by reduced lending.  A person can borrow private of they want,  but it won't be forgiven or subsidized. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,592
    Read Heather's letter when Mickey put's it up.  A terrific summation of a big day in political news and it really puts the forgiveness of student loans into perspective.  I was somewhat against that decision, but reading Heather's letter, I'm good with it.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,596
    brianlux said:
    Read Heather's letter when Mickey put's it up.  A terrific summation of a big day in political news and it really puts the forgiveness of student loans into perspective.  I was somewhat against that decision, but reading Heather's letter, I'm good with it.
    The bigger take away for me is the amount of hypocrisy and corruption represented by the repubs and their party. And that almost 8 million more ‘Muricans voted for POOTWH the second time around and he’s still the titular head of that party, if you can call it that. All those hypocritical repubs listed and then some will win re-election. What does that tell you?
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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 7,720
    brianlux said:
    Read Heather's letter when Mickey put's it up.  A terrific summation of a big day in political news and it really puts the forgiveness of student loans into perspective.  I was somewhat against that decision, but reading Heather's letter, I'm good with it.
    The bigger take away for me is the amount of hypocrisy and corruption represented by the repubs and their party. And that almost 8 million more ‘Muricans voted for POOTWH the second time around and he’s still the titular head of that party, if you can call it that. All those hypocritical repubs listed and then some will win re-election. What does that tell you?
    It tells me that republicans prefer fascism over sharing the country with people they don't like. 
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 15,676
    mrussel1 said:
    I'm neither pleased or against this decision.  I wish it wasn't so but I feel bad for people with heavy debt load
     
    But lots of people made bad decisions,  in my opinion.  But the govt allowed and essentially incentivized it with subsidized loans. 

    And this forgiveness will change nothing in the future and the govt will still over lend and people will over borrow.  

    I blame the govt and people. But Washington is so gridlocked and congress is always running the next campaign,  so there's no interest in solving it. But if I could waive a magic wand, I would:

    1. Consider 2 years of community College as a continuation of high school. Not compulsory,  but funded by the DOE. 
    2. If you take the free education,  you must complete some required hours of service,  like a New Deal program.  
    3. "In need" careers like nursing,  health care,  etc. are free.  And eligible certificates/ careers must be evaluated every five years. 
    4. Federal loans have a cap OR you must go to a state school.  Not sure exactly on this one, but the govt should incentivize rational decisions,  not poor ones.  Under privileged kids who are good enough to go Ivy or whatever would receive tuition through the endowments anyways.  

    So if there was a federal cap,  universities would have to hold their tuition down.  The govt would be artificially holding down the cost by reduced lending.  A person can borrow private of they want,  but it won't be forgiven or subsidized. 
    Solid post.
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 44,025
    Dark Brandon's got some pep in his step now. Approval rating up over 4% in the last few weeks. Some wins under his belt this summer. Nice speech last night. Trending in the right direction....
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 15,198
    mickeyrat said:
    There is literally no subject these people are not hypocritical about. 
    Yeah and the thing is they will say "PPP went to employees" which is mostly true since you had to maintain employees to receive forgiveness. However if the owner was on the payroll they received PPP for themselves which was likely more than $10K. 

    And then we get into the majority of cases where the business didn't really need the PPP to begin with....it was just tax free income.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland1, Oakland2, Nashville, Louisville 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 26,513
    edited August 2022
    mickeyrat said:
    There is literally no subject these people are not hypocritical about. 
    Yeah and the thing is they will say "PPP went to employees" which is mostly true since you had to maintain employees to receive forgiveness. However if the owner was on the payroll they received PPP for themselves which was likely more than $10K. 

    And then we get into the majority of cases where the business didn't really need the PPP to begin with....it was just tax free income.
    Stimulus checks weren't paid back either.   The ppp argument that it went to employees is a red herring.  10k forgiven for adults means they will put discretionary spending into the economy.  They are now "job creators" through their trickle down economics.  
    Post edited by mrussel1 on
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 7,720
    If we help the poors, who will we get to go die in the wars that make us rich? 



  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,596
    If we help the poors, who will we get to go die in the wars that make us rich? 



    Who, in their right mind, would want to report to a CIC like POOTWH? Was he one of the repub house members to vote against the recent veteran’s aid bill?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited August 2022
    mace1229 said:
    Loan forgiveness is a terrible idea.
    One, it does zero to reduce to cost. So it’s pointless.
    But mostly, you agree to take a loan you should be responsible to pay it back. Not pass it off into other taxpayers. It’s not about fairness to those who just paid it off, I don’t care about that. If it was a gift from China then that’d one thing. But you’re “forgiving” it by passing it on to the rest of us.

    The reasons of they’re just drowning in debt and school is so expensive don’t do it for me. How many drowning in student loan debt considered other options like going to a 2 year school first? There are ways to drastically cut the cost back if that is your goal. There are plenty of people drowning in credit card debt too, should we forgive that with tax money? You chose to take out tens of thousands to attend a 4 year school, and most likely partied the first 2 years. That’s great. I wish you the best. Don’t pay off your debt with my taxes though.

    I also think PPP loan forgiveness was a bad idea.
    Two points:
    1 what about people who still owe 60k in loans on a 70k initial loan amount.  After 25 years of paying they have paid back 75k to the government?

    there are a lot of older borrowers who have in fact paid the entire principle back.  A lot of these people happen to be teachers.  If we paid them more (with our tax dollars) maybe they wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with 

    2. Non college educated people get bailed out all the time (as education level generally mirrors income)
    in Texas after the winter storm a couple of years ago the people on variable rate energy plans got bailed out.
    these are the people who saved money for years with their energy rates floating below a long term contract rate.  When prices spiked and they got a $5k heating bill they didn’t have to pay.

    natural disasters.   The homes least able to withstand a disaster are the ones owned generally by people who didn’t go to college. They also don’t have proper insurance.   They get bailed out 

    loan forgiveness is a handout but middle class college educated individuals get less handouts than a lot of other groups.  

    I am subsidising those handouts through my electricity rates and through my tax dollars.  A lot of the pushback on the right is being framed as non college graduates footing the bill.  Well they aren’t, as they don’t pay that many taxes to begin with statistically speaking.

    I’ve paid off 100 percent of my student loans.  I’m not benefiting but I’m happy to help others get a small bit of relief.
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 27,273
    If we help the poors, who will we get to go die in the wars that make us rich? 




    umm Rep dumbfuck, any number of reasons to join a service branch. One is GI Bill.  If its your contention that folks join for that reason alone, as if thats the only way they'll be able to afford to go to college, then you can easily see we have bigger problems than 10 k in forgiveness.

    Signed,
    Critical Thinking HS Dropout
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 15,198
    nicknyr15 said:
    I really don’t know enough or can relate to this. I’ve never had student loan debt. At first , it sounded good. But the more I read into it, the more it sounds like a whole lot of nothing. I don’t think this will really do much going forward. I read an article and this paragraph stuck out the most to me :

    Any serious discussion surrounding student debt would ask the fundamental question of how best to reduce tuition price tags, as ours dwarf those of peer nations. But this isn’t a serious discussion. It is a bribe to Biden’s base in anticipation of the midterm elections, and the US taxpayers are the ones footing the bill.

    the first sentence is the obvious problem. The second is more of an attack on Biden , but how true is that about taxpayers footing the bill? Will this really cost us 300 billion? 
    Taking $10K or $20K off of a lower/middle income recent graduate's back is not a whole lot of nothing.

    That coupled with the 5% cap is huge.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland1, Oakland2, Nashville, Louisville 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,596
    If we help the poors, who will we get to go die in the wars that make us rich? 



    And of course he voted “nay.” Of course.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited August 2022
    mrussel1 said:
    I'm neither pleased or against this decision.  I wish it wasn't so but I feel bad for people with heavy debt load
     
    But lots of people made bad decisions,  in my opinion.  But the govt allowed and essentially incentivized it with subsidized loans. 

    And this forgiveness will change nothing in the future and the govt will still over lend and people will over borrow.  

    I blame the govt and people. But Washington is so gridlocked and congress is always running the next campaign,  so there's no interest in solving it. But if I could waive a magic wand, I would:

    1. Consider 2 years of community College as a continuation of high school. Not compulsory,  but funded by the DOE. 
    2. If you take the free education,  you must complete some required hours of service,  like a New Deal program.  
    3. "In need" careers like nursing,  health care,  etc. are free.  And eligible certificates/ careers must be evaluated every five years. 
    4. Federal loans have a cap OR you must go to a state school.  Not sure exactly on this one, but the govt should incentivize rational decisions,  not poor ones.  Under privileged kids who are good enough to go Ivy or whatever would receive tuition through the endowments anyways.  

    So if there was a federal cap,  universities would have to hold their tuition down.  The govt would be artificially holding down the cost by reduced lending.  A person can borrow private of they want,  but it won't be forgiven or subsidized. 
    Not sure exactly how it works but I know in my home state the gap between in state and out of state tuition was what the state was subsidising their local students cost of attendance.  It’s not like they were arbitrarily charging out of staters more  

    over the years the state has been cutting that and the gap is closing. Part of the increased debt burden is the states funding colleges less than they have in the past. So if you cancel some debt it’s in effect retroactively addressing that issue in a small sense 

    California use to subsidise virtually all the tuition costs of state students so a lot of older Californians got their education paid for via taxes that current Californians don’t (for example)

    having an educated population is good for everyone.  This idea education should be based on ability to pay is the sign of a society in decline. It’s nothing to be proud of.  I really don’t care if my kids want a blue collar job when they grow up. That’s fine.  They will be blue collar workers with college degrees 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 32,596
    mrussel1 said:
    I'm neither pleased or against this decision.  I wish it wasn't so but I feel bad for people with heavy debt load
     
    But lots of people made bad decisions,  in my opinion.  But the govt allowed and essentially incentivized it with subsidized loans. 

    And this forgiveness will change nothing in the future and the govt will still over lend and people will over borrow.  

    I blame the govt and people. But Washington is so gridlocked and congress is always running the next campaign,  so there's no interest in solving it. But if I could waive a magic wand, I would:

    1. Consider 2 years of community College as a continuation of high school. Not compulsory,  but funded by the DOE. 
    2. If you take the free education,  you must complete some required hours of service,  like a New Deal program.  
    3. "In need" careers like nursing,  health care,  etc. are free.  And eligible certificates/ careers must be evaluated every five years. 
    4. Federal loans have a cap OR you must go to a state school.  Not sure exactly on this one, but the govt should incentivize rational decisions,  not poor ones.  Under privileged kids who are good enough to go Ivy or whatever would receive tuition through the endowments anyways.  

    So if there was a federal cap,  universities would have to hold their tuition down.  The govt would be artificially holding down the cost by reduced lending.  A person can borrow private of they want,  but it won't be forgiven or subsidized. 
    Not sure exactly how it works but I know in my home state the gap between in state and out of state tuition was what the state was subsidising their local students cost of attendance.  It’s not like they were arbitrarily charging out of staters more  

    over the years the state has been cutting that and the gap is closing. Part of the increased debt burden is the states funding colleges less than they have in the past. So if you cancel some debt it’s in effect retroactively addressing that issue in a small sense 
    The bulk of the funding for public state schools used to come primarily from the federal government. Then Ronny Rayguns came along and repub majorities in Congress. Over time, fed funding dropped further, pushing more of the funding burden to the states. Which lead to increasing taxes to cover the short falls. Which lead to folks who wanted to increase taxes to support higher Ed to lose elections. Which lead to huge increases in tuition, states taking more out of state students for their higher tuition at the expense of state residents and major pushes to grow endowments with staff, almuni outreach and fund raising efforts, as well as hiring Wall Street investment wizbangs to get higher and higher returns on the endowment, and corporate partners and sponsors. Also the tripling and quadrupling of dorm rooms that used to be singles and doubles to increase class sizes and tuition payers. It also lead to campuses facing huge infrastructure challenges as they fell further and further behind in deferred maintenance and staffing, including over reliance on grad student teachers.

    Like most repub policy, short sighted and dumb but keeping the public dumb works to their advantage. As for an investment, ROI, higher education returns somewhere between $8 and $10 for each dollar spent in the form of local community, state tax and service spending. Add in the job creation and producing of a skilled populace that get well paying jobs and the impact is even greater. But yea, Bezos, Buffet and Musk need another tax break.
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