A dystopia would be going on like life is normal while people are still getting sick.
This makes sense, too, because now we get an entire winter cycle with the vax pumping through peoples veins and see what that looks like. "Every piece of research" is still new. What's needed now is time. Every result of research we've seen so far is promising but it's no where near enough yet.
I mean, so your position is basically that we need to see 6+ months more of research on the vaccines?
And are simultaneously ok with them being rolled out at scale as a live experiment on millions of people?
I guess I am choosing to believe that thousands of researchers and health officials wouldn’t be rolling this out at scale if they thought there was any risk of further complications.
Haha, so you want to selectively choose what you want (I'll let the back handed "delusional" strikethrough comment slide), yes? Somehow you're contradicting yourself by saying we should move on and trust the research, yet somehow insinuate this "live experiment on millions of people" as if you're sceptical of the whole thing? You can't trust the research at the same time being skeptical of the "experiment".
It's almost like this isn't about the vaccine at all for you then right? Of course more research is needed. What we know about the vax is it is almost 100% in reducing severe illness and death. That's what we know. The cost benefit analysis is you take the shot so you don't get really sick and not die with the limited research we so far have on a novel coronavirus as opposed to not taking it and letting it run rampant. That's the tradeoff. Not go back to the way things were. Those same public health officials are not saying to go back to normal or take "calculated risks". They're, in fact, still telling everyone to practice social distancing in addition to getting vaxed.
Of course, this thing isn't going to be totally eradicated. It will be a yearly booster shot. That doesn't change the fact that we shouldn't be jumping the gun because you've been skeptical of a lightning quick vax rollout all along.
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,567
My fingers are crossed it takes place in September. But a lot of things have to go right. I’m fine with it being postponed if the band commits to 2022 and I see no reason why they wouldn’t.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
No harm in delaying rock concerts. Better safe than sorry. It's not that complicated.
There is harm to those who earn a living in the concert industry, workers and vendors that support the events and venues for large scale events. There is a mental health issue as well.
No harm in delaying rock concerts. Better safe than sorry. It's not that complicated.
There is harm to those who earn a living in the concert industry, workers and vendors that support the events and venues for large scale events. There is a mental health issue as well.
Exactly. One thing I have noticed about this pandemic is people (myself included) having tunnel vision with regards to their acceptance of the lockdown measures and restrictions that are in place. No one is asking to do anything unsafe here as far as I can see. If you are older and have seen plenty of shows and might catch one or two during a new album cycle of course you are going to be ok with delaying another year or two. Someone like me that wants to see 14 plus shows next year might think differently than you do and thats ok!
No harm in delaying rock concerts. Better safe than sorry. It's not that complicated.
There is harm to those who earn a living in the concert industry, workers and vendors that support the events and venues for large scale events. There is a mental health issue as well.
And your point is EXACTLY why when we DO go back to live shows, we sure as hell better do it to the best and safest of our ability. You think the impact on the live show industry hurts now? Do you understand how much longer this will be drawn out if we half-ass it at all and rush getting back to each level of live music? It takes one poorly-managed re-opening of live shows to send a chill through the industry and disrupt finding "the new normal" for live music in the US.
So what you say is true, and it's been brutal. AND... rushing a return could extend it even longer, so please keep that in mind.
Not to open up an unrelated can of worms but just look at school reopenings nationwide for clues about how disruptive doing it badly to start can be to the goal of doing it everywhere. The differences between the districts that opened with strict rules, ENFORCED THOSE RULES, and did contact tracing of cohorts of students, vs. those who rushed to reopen, had outbreaks, couldn't contact trace, and had to yo-yo back and forth open, not open, and more importantly LOSE A TON OF GREAT TEACHERS (some to death by Covid) because schools were letting pressure to open make decisions instead of what was best for students and teachers. And NO I was not against reopening school altogether. I just worked in education for years and understand the difference in HOW you open.
No harm in delaying rock concerts. Better safe than sorry. It's not that complicated.
There is harm to those who earn a living in the concert industry, workers and vendors that support the events and venues for large scale events. There is a mental health issue as well.
I suppose that is true. But it does not change my position, there is no need take chances by holding large gatherings right now.
No harm in delaying rock concerts. Better safe than sorry. It's not that complicated.
There is harm to those who earn a living in the concert industry, workers and vendors that support the events and venues for large scale events. There is a mental health issue as well.
And your point is EXACTLY why when we DO go back to live shows, we sure as hell better do it to the best and safest of our ability. You think the impact on the live show industry hurts now? Do you understand how much longer this will be drawn out if we half-ass it at all and rush getting back to each level of live music? It takes one poorly-managed re-opening of live shows to send a chill through the industry and disrupt finding "the new normal" for live music in the US.
So what you say is true, and it's been brutal. AND... rushing a return could extend it even longer, so please keep that in mind.
Not to open up an unrelated can of worms but just look at school reopenings nationwide for clues about how disruptive doing it badly to start can be to the goal of doing it everywhere. The differences between the districts that opened with strict rules, ENFORCED THOSE RULES, and did contact tracing of cohorts of students, vs. those who rushed to reopen, had outbreaks, couldn't contact trace, and had to yo-yo back and forth open, not open, and more importantly LOSE A TON OF GREAT TEACHERS (some to death by Covid) because schools were letting pressure to open make decisions instead of what was best for students and teachers. And NO I was not against reopening school altogether. I just worked in education for years and understand the difference in HOW you open.
Oooooohhh, haha, can of worms opened in indeed. Wife is a teacher, it's crazy. I bet you could find a lot of correlation in here between those who want these shows started yesterday damnit and the same people who want their kids and teachers back in school yesterday damnit.
Nobody is asking for half assing anything though and I do not see how wanting shows after everyone is vaccinated that wants to be is rushing things. Just my thoughts I guess.
So the suggestion is to wait and see how the vaccine does after a full winter cycle. We can then determine the length of immunity against the virus. That makes sense to me too but what if we find out that we are only good for 1 full year with the vaccine. Now people that got the winter shot in 2021 are no longer immune in the spring of 2022. But wait those that got it in the summer of 2021 are still immune so where do go from here with restrictions and boosters and keeping track of everything? No matter what we will be getting boosters for the next couple of years. They will adjust them to the variants out there and at the end of the day science will prevail and we will be back to normal at some point. Concerts are a big part of that normal for me and I for one am excited to get back into seeing shows again.
No harm in delaying rock concerts. Better safe than sorry. It's not that complicated.
There is harm to those who earn a living in the concert industry, workers and vendors that support the events and venues for large scale events. There is a mental health issue as well.
And your point is EXACTLY why when we DO go back to live shows, we sure as hell better do it to the best and safest of our ability. You think the impact on the live show industry hurts now? Do you understand how much longer this will be drawn out if we half-ass it at all and rush getting back to each level of live music? It takes one poorly-managed re-opening of live shows to send a chill through the industry and disrupt finding "the new normal" for live music in the US.
So what you say is true, and it's been brutal. AND... rushing a return could extend it even longer, so please keep that in mind.
Not to open up an unrelated can of worms but just look at school reopenings nationwide for clues about how disruptive doing it badly to start can be to the goal of doing it everywhere. The differences between the districts that opened with strict rules, ENFORCED THOSE RULES, and did contact tracing of cohorts of students, vs. those who rushed to reopen, had outbreaks, couldn't contact trace, and had to yo-yo back and forth open, not open, and more importantly LOSE A TON OF GREAT TEACHERS (some to death by Covid) because schools were letting pressure to open make decisions instead of what was best for students and teachers. And NO I was not against reopening school altogether. I just worked in education for years and understand the difference in HOW you open.
Oooooohhh, haha, can of worms opened in indeed. Wife is a teacher, it's crazy. I bet you could find a lot of correlation in here between those who want these shows started yesterday damnit and the same people who want their kids and teachers back in school yesterday damnit.
Who in this discussion wants there shows to happen yesterday? I must have missed that post and if there is one then they are wrong imo. It is too early.
Nobody is asking for half assing anything though and I do not see how wanting shows after everyone is vaccinated that wants to be is rushing things. Just my thoughts I guess.
So the suggestion is to wait and see how the vaccine does after a full winter cycle. We can then determine the length of immunity against the virus. That makes sense to me too but what if we find out that we are only good for 1 full year with the vaccine. Now people that got the winter shot in 2021 are no longer immune in the spring of 2022. But wait those that got it in the summer of 2021 are still immune so where do go from here with restrictions and boosters and keeping track of everything? No matter what we will be getting boosters for the next couple of years. They will adjust them to the variants out there and at the end of the day science will prevail and we will be back to normal at some point. Concerts are a big part of that normal for me and I for one am excited to get back into seeing shows again.
I think that's the whole point right? So many unanswered questions still, so much more we have to take in.
I want to get to some shows, too. But a lot of these conversations are part of a larger issue of what that new normal looks like. I personally don't think we're going back to what things were like pre-2020 anytime soon.
Nobody is asking for half assing anything though and I do not see how wanting shows after everyone is vaccinated that wants to be is rushing things. Just my thoughts I guess.
So the suggestion is to wait and see how the vaccine does after a full winter cycle. We can then determine the length of immunity against the virus. That makes sense to me too but what if we find out that we are only good for 1 full year with the vaccine. Now people that got the winter shot in 2021 are no longer immune in the spring of 2022. But wait those that got it in the summer of 2021 are still immune so where do go from here with restrictions and boosters and keeping track of everything? No matter what we will be getting boosters for the next couple of years. They will adjust them to the variants out there and at the end of the day science will prevail and we will be back to normal at some point. Concerts are a big part of that normal for me and I for one am excited to get back into seeing shows again.
I think that's the whole point right? So many unanswered questions still, so much more we have to take in.
I want to get to some shows, too. But a lot of these conversations are part of a larger issue of what that new normal looks like. I personally don't think we're going back to what things were like pre-2020 anytime soon.
I respectfully hope you are wrong and think we should be able to if the vaccine does what it looks like it will. My point with the unanswered questions is that we are going to have unanswered questions for years to come with this virus still. At what point do we say enough is enough and we are good to go?
I do feel bad for someone that has not been on the forum the last couple of days to pop on and see 100 new posts and thinks something is up with the festival just to come and read all of our back and forth lol.
I do feel bad for someone that has not been on the forum the last couple of days to pop on and see 100 new posts and thinks something is up with the festival just to come and read all of our back and forth lol.
Nobody is asking for half assing anything though and I do not see how wanting shows after everyone is vaccinated that wants to be is rushing things. Just my thoughts I guess.
So the suggestion is to wait and see how the vaccine does after a full winter cycle. We can then determine the length of immunity against the virus. That makes sense to me too but what if we find out that we are only good for 1 full year with the vaccine. Now people that got the winter shot in 2021 are no longer immune in the spring of 2022. But wait those that got it in the summer of 2021 are still immune so where do go from here with restrictions and boosters and keeping track of everything? No matter what we will be getting boosters for the next couple of years. They will adjust them to the variants out there and at the end of the day science will prevail and we will be back to normal at some point. Concerts are a big part of that normal for me and I for one am excited to get back into seeing shows again.
Actually, I'm not suggesting it takes going through another winter cycle to know what needs to be known. I just think this SUMMER/FALL for festivals may be hard to know by June-ish (when you have to say "GO!" or pull the plug) that it'll be safe by Aug/Sept/Oct for *outside* shows. Even later for inside shows. That's the only conversation and timeline I'm thinking about.
And for those BOOKING concerts and festivals, for so many obvious reasons but mostly because they do NOT want to have to cancel again, you push out the dates for when you tour NOT to when you really hope it'll be ok and "it looks promising", but to when science and trends and experts all say it's highly likely that we'll be at a point by then that it can be done safely. We are NOT at that point right now, and decisions have to be made now.
And bottom line is, given how quickly we've learned what we have about what has been unprecedented for almost anyone alive right now, there's good reason to feel hopeful about knowing enough by next year to pull off touring. Even if vaccines need boosters and all that other uncertainty.
Also, for shows that are booked now for the summer and fall, they have my money and will get to keep it even if the event is postponed. You are welcome Wilco.
I do feel bad for someone that has not been on the forum the last couple of days to pop on and see 100 new posts and thinks something is up with the festival just to come and read all of our back and forth lol.
Always enjoy seeing your posts, my dude.
almost, was offline for 24 hours and came back to 35 new posts. BTW did I miss anything? Was Rick Astley announced as the opener?
1996.....Toronto 2005.....Hamilton 2011.....Toronto N1, Toronto N2, Hamilton 2013.....London, Buffalo 2014.....Detroit 2016.....Toronto N1 Toronto N2, Boston N1, Boston N2, Chicago N1 2018.....Seattle N1, Seattle N2 2022.....San Diego, Los Angeles N1, Los Angeles N2, Phoenix, Oakland N1, Oakland N2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto 2023.....Fort Worth N1, Fort Worth N2, Austin N1, Austin N2 2024.....????
I do feel bad for someone that has not been on the forum the last couple of days to pop on and see 100 new posts and thinks something is up with the festival just to come and read all of our back and forth lol.
Always enjoy seeing your posts, my dude.
almost, was offline for 24 hours and came back to 35 new posts. BTW did I miss anything? Was Rick Astley announced as the opener?
Nobody is asking for half assing anything though and I do not see how wanting shows after everyone is vaccinated that wants to be is rushing things. Just my thoughts I guess.
So the suggestion is to wait and see how the vaccine does after a full winter cycle. We can then determine the length of immunity against the virus. That makes sense to me too but what if we find out that we are only good for 1 full year with the vaccine. Now people that got the winter shot in 2021 are no longer immune in the spring of 2022. But wait those that got it in the summer of 2021 are still immune so where do go from here with restrictions and boosters and keeping track of everything? No matter what we will be getting boosters for the next couple of years. They will adjust them to the variants out there and at the end of the day science will prevail and we will be back to normal at some point. Concerts are a big part of that normal for me and I for one am excited to get back into seeing shows again.
Actually, I'm not suggesting it takes going through another winter cycle to know what needs to be known. I just think this SUMMER/FALL for festivals may be hard to know by June-ish (when you have to say "GO!" or pull the plug) that it'll be safe by Aug/Sept/Oct for *outside* shows. Even later for inside shows. That's the only conversation and timeline I'm thinking about.
And for those BOOKING concerts and festivals, for so many obvious reasons but mostly because they do NOT want to have to cancel again, you push out the dates for when you tour NOT to when you really hope it'll be ok and "it looks promising", but to when science and trends and experts all say it's highly likely that we'll be at a point by then that it can be done safely. We are NOT at that point right now, and decisions have to be made now.
And bottom line is, given how quickly we've learned what we have about what has been unprecedented for almost anyone alive right now, there's good reason to feel hopeful about knowing enough by next year to pull off touring. Even if vaccines need boosters and all that other uncertainty.
I do feel bad for someone that has not been on the forum the last couple of days to pop on and see 100 new posts and thinks something is up with the festival just to come and read all of our back and forth lol.
Always enjoy seeing your posts, my dude.
almost, was offline for 24 hours and came back to 35 new posts. BTW did I miss anything? Was Rick Astley announced as the opener?
@JimmyV we had some great discussions in the past! Hopefully when the new dates come for NA the activity on the boards pick up again and we can continue them. I have no clue how I can fit a Boston show in in 2022 but can't miss one of those if they have them.
Another big reggae festival in Clearwater, FL in October my brother sent me a message about. Big names in that genre.
I think fall is promising, at least for these outdoor festivals.
Yes. I believe that the NA 2020 tour will still be moved to Spring 2022, but I am of full belief that Ohana and Sea.Hear.Now will go on as planned this fall
2010: Cleveland 2012: Atlanta 2013: London ONT / Wrigley Field / Pittsburgh / Buffalo / San Diego / Los Angeles I / Los Angeles II 2014: Cincinnati / St. Louis / Tulsa / Lincoln / Detroit / Denver 2015: New York City 2016: Ft. Lauderdale / Miami / Jacksonville / Greenville / Hampton / Columbia / Lexington / Philly II / New York City II / Toronto II / Bonnaroo / Telluride / Fenway I / Wrigley I / Wrigley - II / TOTD - Philadelphia, San Francisco 2017: Ohana Fest (EV) 2018: Amsterdam I / Amsterdam II / Seattle I / Seattle II / Boston I / Boston II 2021: Asbury Park / Ohana Encore 1 / Ohana Encore 2 2022: Phoenix / LA I / LA II / Quebec City / Ottawa / New York City / Camden / Nashville / St. Louis / Denver 2023: St. Paul II 2024: Las Vegas I / Las Vegas II / New York City I / New York City II / Philly I / Philly II / Baltimore
Comments
I guess I am choosing to believe that thousands of researchers and health officials wouldn’t be rolling this out at scale if they thought there was any risk of further complications.
It's almost like this isn't about the vaccine at all for you then right? Of course more research is needed. What we know about the vax is it is almost 100% in reducing severe illness and death. That's what we know. The cost benefit analysis is you take the shot so you don't get really sick and not die with the limited research we so far have on a novel coronavirus as opposed to not taking it and letting it run rampant. That's the tradeoff. Not go back to the way things were. Those same public health officials are not saying to go back to normal or take "calculated risks". They're, in fact, still telling everyone to practice social distancing in addition to getting vaxed.
Of course, this thing isn't going to be totally eradicated. It will be a yearly booster shot. That doesn't change the fact that we shouldn't be jumping the gun because you've been skeptical of a lightning quick vax rollout all along.
Yep
07.08.03 MSG 07.09.03 MSG 7.12.03 Hershey 7.14.03 Holmdel 6.12.08 Tampa 10.19.13 Brooklyn 4.11.16 Tampa
5.1.16 MSG 5.2.16 MSG 8.7.16 Fenway 9.2.18 Fenway 9.4.18 Fenway 9.11.22 MSG 9.16.22 Nashville 9.18.23 Austin 9.19.23 Austin
So what you say is true, and it's been brutal. AND... rushing a return could extend it even longer, so please keep that in mind.
Not to open up an unrelated can of worms but just look at school reopenings nationwide for clues about how disruptive doing it badly to start can be to the goal of doing it everywhere. The differences between the districts that opened with strict rules, ENFORCED THOSE RULES, and did contact tracing of cohorts of students, vs. those who rushed to reopen, had outbreaks, couldn't contact trace, and had to yo-yo back and forth open, not open, and more importantly LOSE A TON OF GREAT TEACHERS (some to death by Covid) because schools were letting pressure to open make decisions instead of what was best for students and teachers. And NO I was not against reopening school altogether. I just worked in education for years and understand the difference in HOW you open.
So the suggestion is to wait and see how the vaccine does after a full winter cycle. We can then determine the length of immunity against the virus. That makes sense to me too but what if we find out that we are only good for 1 full year with the vaccine. Now people that got the winter shot in 2021 are no longer immune in the spring of 2022. But wait those that got it in the summer of 2021 are still immune so where do go from here with restrictions and boosters and keeping track of everything? No matter what we will be getting boosters for the next couple of years. They will adjust them to the variants out there and at the end of the day science will prevail and we will be back to normal at some point. Concerts are a big part of that normal for me and I for one am excited to get back into seeing shows again.
I want to get to some shows, too. But a lot of these conversations are part of a larger issue of what that new normal looks like. I personally don't think we're going back to what things were like pre-2020 anytime soon.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
And for those BOOKING concerts and festivals, for so many obvious reasons but mostly because they do NOT want to have to cancel again, you push out the dates for when you tour NOT to when you really hope it'll be ok and "it looks promising", but to when science and trends and experts all say it's highly likely that we'll be at a point by then that it can be done safely. We are NOT at that point right now, and decisions have to be made now.
And bottom line is, given how quickly we've learned what we have about what has been unprecedented for almost anyone alive right now, there's good reason to feel hopeful about knowing enough by next year to pull off touring. Even if vaccines need boosters and all that other uncertainty.
2005.....Hamilton
2011.....Toronto N1, Toronto N2, Hamilton
2013.....London, Buffalo
2014.....Detroit
2016.....Toronto N1 Toronto N2, Boston N1, Boston N2, Chicago N1
2018.....Seattle N1, Seattle N2
2022.....San Diego, Los Angeles N1, Los Angeles N2, Phoenix, Oakland N1, Oakland N2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto
2023.....Fort Worth N1, Fort Worth N2, Austin N1, Austin N2
2024.....????
@JimmyV we had some great discussions in the past! Hopefully when the new dates come for NA the activity on the boards pick up again and we can continue them. I have no clue how I can fit a Boston show in in 2022 but can't miss one of those if they have them.
@D-Rod are you thinking of the Foo Fighters lol?
Optimistic of course. Doable? Time will tell. This is why some think festivals might happen this year.
I think fall is promising, at least for these outdoor festivals.
2012: Atlanta
2013: London ONT / Wrigley Field / Pittsburgh / Buffalo / San Diego / Los Angeles I / Los Angeles II
2014: Cincinnati / St. Louis / Tulsa / Lincoln / Detroit / Denver
2015: New York City
2016: Ft. Lauderdale / Miami / Jacksonville / Greenville / Hampton / Columbia / Lexington / Philly II / New York City II / Toronto II / Bonnaroo / Telluride / Fenway I / Wrigley I / Wrigley - II / TOTD - Philadelphia, San Francisco
2017: Ohana Fest (EV)
2018: Amsterdam I / Amsterdam II / Seattle I / Seattle II / Boston I / Boston II
2021: Asbury Park / Ohana Encore 1 / Ohana Encore 2
2022: Phoenix / LA I / LA II / Quebec City / Ottawa / New York City / Camden / Nashville / St. Louis / Denver
2023: St. Paul II
2024: Las Vegas I / Las Vegas II / New York City I / New York City II / Philly I / Philly II / Baltimore