Black Lives Matter

oftenreading

Ledbetterman10 said:

oftenreading said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

RYME said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I watched that too....and it is the opinion of one random guy.  
(A random guy who apparently has never heard of the Internal Affairs division already present in most major police departments )
Keep on educating.....

What a joke.

Ok stick your heads in the sand ostriches.  You are a joke!
How did the big cities run by democrates do this past weekend?  NYC?> Chicago?> Atlanta,> Philadelphia>>>
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/chicago-gun-violence-2-children-among-several-killed-over-fourth-of-july-weekend/
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bullet-strikes-nypd-patrol-vehicle-misses-officers-sitting-inside/2500243/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/chicago-shootings-july-4-weekend/index.html

I wonder why these sort of shootings rarely get posted in the Gun Violence thread...

Feel free to spend your day searching the web for every shooting article you can find. I’d appreciate the help in illustrating how ridiculous of a problem “responsible” gun owners are. But I’ll make it easy:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

And look at all those shootings in red states. When are the repubs going to do something about it?

I think you already have that covered: spending your day searching the web for shooting articles. You just cherry-pick what you post. You don't post when it's black-on-black crime or gun violence in democrat-ran cities...for obvious reasons. 

Seriously? You’re actually using the phrase “black on black”? I have to say, I’m kinda surprised to read that here, though I guess I shouldn’t be. It’s a sickeningly dismissive phrase. 

People are people, and most crime is relational. That means most crime is committed against people in your immediate family or neighbourhood or social circle. Why do we never hear the media talking about white on white crime? There’s certainly plenty of that. 

Well I just watched a documentary about black conservatives and they were using that phrase. But they sure weren't using it in a dismissive manner. They were using it in a "This is a big problem" manner. And one that they want their community to take accountability for and eradicate. They argue that absentee fathers is the biggest problem in the black community (70% of black kids today grow up without two parents), and that leads to many young black men joining gangs in search of family/community/father-figures, which leads to.....well I don't want to say it. After all, it's a sickeningly dismissive phrase! 

Yes, it is, and one ignores the reality of the data we have on crime.

mace1229

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

RYME said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I watched that too....and it is the opinion of one random guy.  
(A random guy who apparently has never heard of the Internal Affairs division already present in most major police departments )
Keep on educating.....

What a joke.

Ok stick your heads in the sand ostriches.  You are a joke!
How did the big cities run by democrates do this past weekend?  NYC?> Chicago?> Atlanta,> Philadelphia>>>
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/chicago-gun-violence-2-children-among-several-killed-over-fourth-of-july-weekend/
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bullet-strikes-nypd-patrol-vehicle-misses-officers-sitting-inside/2500243/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/chicago-shootings-july-4-weekend/index.html

I wonder why these sort of shootings rarely get posted in the Gun Violence thread...

Feel free to spend your day searching the web for every shooting article you can find. I’d appreciate the help in illustrating how ridiculous of a problem “responsible” gun owners are. But I’ll make it easy:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

And look at all those shootings in red states. When are the repubs going to do something about it?

I think you already have that covered: spending your day searching the web for shooting articles. You just cherry-pick what you post. You don't post when it's black-on-black crime or gun violence in democrat-ran cities...for obvious reasons. 

I was under the impression that there is only crime and not crime. Not black on black crime or white on white crime or white on black crime etc...just crime. Am I wrong there?  I feel like the term black on black crime gets thrown around to take away some level of the seriousness of crime. Gun violence is gun violence in my mind.

I always view being told race within crime stats isn’t important is a way of trying to avoid that conversation. It’s important.
Heres the stats from FBI data

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

Homicide victims:
52% white,  43% black

For white victims:
White offender 81%

Black offender 15%

For black victims:
white offender 7%

Black offender 90%

Why can’t we talk about this? When blacks make up about 15% of the country, but we have data like this we can’t talk about it?

B on W violence is twice as high as W on B.
Black deaths make up almost half the victims. 

Everyone knows gang violence is a major problem, but we can’t talk about it.

Now I don’t think murder and violence is a black problem. It’s mostly a poverty problem. and a few other major issues that effect black communities more. But we won’t solve anything if we can’t talk about it.

brianlux

hedonist said:

brianlux said:

tbergs said:

Nothing like seeing your family on the 4th and hearing comments like, "they should shoot the protestors" and "if they don't like it here they can go back to Africa". H-O-L-Y Fucki! My wife often wonders how I turned out the way I did with that type of upbringing. It was not uncommon to hear racial slurs as a kid and still to this day, but yeah, all lives matter. Sure.

Oh man!  That's tough.  I guess I'm lucky not having to deal with relatives of that mind. 

Only once in my life have I had a relative prove to be blatantly racist.  Some time back in the early 60's when I was a preteen, my mother's aunt came to stay with us for a few days.  We took her up to San Francisco to show her the town and as we were driving around in one part of the city, my great aunt suddenly yelled out, "There sure are a lot of n****rs around here!"  I was shocked to hear a relative toss out the N-word so casually.  My mother was visibly unhappy and flustered and told her, "We don't use that kind of language around here!" 

When I was in my early teens, I was driving with my stepdad and he got cut off by a black driver. He screamed “nigger!” at the guy.

He lost most of my respect (THIS is my mom’s new husband???), and I never looked at him the same again.

*He also lobbed a grapefruit from 13 floors up at those marching in one of LA’s pride parades in the 80s. Jesus f’in christo. 

That sucks!  Your mom must have seen something good in the guy.  Maybe she wasn't aware of his race issues?

static111

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

RYME said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I watched that too....and it is the opinion of one random guy.  
(A random guy who apparently has never heard of the Internal Affairs division already present in most major police departments )
Keep on educating.....

What a joke.

Ok stick your heads in the sand ostriches.  You are a joke!
How did the big cities run by democrates do this past weekend?  NYC?> Chicago?> Atlanta,> Philadelphia>>>
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/chicago-gun-violence-2-children-among-several-killed-over-fourth-of-july-weekend/
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bullet-strikes-nypd-patrol-vehicle-misses-officers-sitting-inside/2500243/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/chicago-shootings-july-4-weekend/index.html

I wonder why these sort of shootings rarely get posted in the Gun Violence thread...

Feel free to spend your day searching the web for every shooting article you can find. I’d appreciate the help in illustrating how ridiculous of a problem “responsible” gun owners are. But I’ll make it easy:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

And look at all those shootings in red states. When are the repubs going to do something about it?

I think you already have that covered: spending your day searching the web for shooting articles. You just cherry-pick what you post. You don't post when it's black-on-black crime or gun violence in democrat-ran cities...for obvious reasons. 

I was under the impression that there is only crime and not crime. Not black on black crime or white on white crime or white on black crime etc...just crime. Am I wrong there?  I feel like the term black on black crime gets thrown around to take away some level of the seriousness of crime. Gun violence is gun violence in my mind.

I always view being told race within crime stats isn’t important is a way of trying to avoid that conversation. It’s important.
Heres the stats from FBI data

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

Homicide victims:
52% white,  43% black

For white victims:
White offender 81%

Black offender 15%

For black victims:
white offender 7%

Black offender 90%

Why can’t we talk about this? When blacks make up about 15% of the country, but we have data like this we can’t talk about it?

B on W violence is twice as high as W on B.
Black deaths make up almost half the victims. 

Everyone knows gang violence is a major problem, but we can’t talk about it.

Now I don’t think murder and violence is a black problem. It’s mostly a poverty problem. and a few other major issues that effect black communities more. But we won’t solve anything if we can’t talk about it.

I would say look deeper at the policies that have created communities with less opportunity and a higher incidence of crime. Redlining, eminent domain, FBI involvement in deligitimizing Black owned businesses especially bookstores up until the mid 1970’s, CIA funneling of crack cocaine to support Latin American guerilla armies. Racism against black people in general that is in fact contrary to popular belief still a thing.  Never getting promised reparations to help create a more equitable society. Gentrification. Generational trauma among other things.  But sure let’s say black on black crime so we don’t have to view it as a problem for all Americans especially the majority.  When people talk about defunding the police and cutting the pentagons budget, they are talking about investing in these communities to make opportunities and an equitable society possible.   Othering a group by saying black on black crime as if it isn’t a problem for all Americans is not helping anyone and does absolutely nothing to address the underlying causes or what can be done to improve the lives of people living in economically disadvantaged areas.  The real conversation that people want to avoid is how long America has turned it’s backs on the most vulnerable populations, not just African Americans, but low income people of all races, trans, gay, Latinx, Asian and anyone that doesn’t fit into the societal definition of a “productive American”. The real question is what does dividing crime statistics by race actually bring to the discussion?

hedonist

brianlux said:

hedonist said:

brianlux said:

tbergs said:

Nothing like seeing your family on the 4th and hearing comments like, "they should shoot the protestors" and "if they don't like it here they can go back to Africa". H-O-L-Y Fucki! My wife often wonders how I turned out the way I did with that type of upbringing. It was not uncommon to hear racial slurs as a kid and still to this day, but yeah, all lives matter. Sure.

Oh man!  That's tough.  I guess I'm lucky not having to deal with relatives of that mind. 

Only once in my life have I had a relative prove to be blatantly racist.  Some time back in the early 60's when I was a preteen, my mother's aunt came to stay with us for a few days.  We took her up to San Francisco to show her the town and as we were driving around in one part of the city, my great aunt suddenly yelled out, "There sure are a lot of n****rs around here!"  I was shocked to hear a relative toss out the N-word so casually.  My mother was visibly unhappy and flustered and told her, "We don't use that kind of language around here!" 

When I was in my early teens, I was driving with my stepdad and he got cut off by a black driver. He screamed “nigger!” at the guy.

He lost most of my respect (THIS is my mom’s new husband???), and I never looked at him the same again.

*He also lobbed a grapefruit from 13 floors up at those marching in one of LA’s pride parades in the 80s. Jesus f’in christo. 

That sucks!  Your mom must have seen something good in the guy.  Maybe she wasn't aware of his race issues?

Something, but mostly $$$.

And I feel like shit for speaking that truth.  

mace1229

static111 said:

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

RYME said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I watched that too....and it is the opinion of one random guy.  
(A random guy who apparently has never heard of the Internal Affairs division already present in most major police departments )
Keep on educating.....

What a joke.

Ok stick your heads in the sand ostriches.  You are a joke!
How did the big cities run by democrates do this past weekend?  NYC?> Chicago?> Atlanta,> Philadelphia>>>
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/chicago-gun-violence-2-children-among-several-killed-over-fourth-of-july-weekend/
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bullet-strikes-nypd-patrol-vehicle-misses-officers-sitting-inside/2500243/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/chicago-shootings-july-4-weekend/index.html

I wonder why these sort of shootings rarely get posted in the Gun Violence thread...

Feel free to spend your day searching the web for every shooting article you can find. I’d appreciate the help in illustrating how ridiculous of a problem “responsible” gun owners are. But I’ll make it easy:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

And look at all those shootings in red states. When are the repubs going to do something about it?

I think you already have that covered: spending your day searching the web for shooting articles. You just cherry-pick what you post. You don't post when it's black-on-black crime or gun violence in democrat-ran cities...for obvious reasons. 

I was under the impression that there is only crime and not crime. Not black on black crime or white on white crime or white on black crime etc...just crime. Am I wrong there?  I feel like the term black on black crime gets thrown around to take away some level of the seriousness of crime. Gun violence is gun violence in my mind.

I always view being told race within crime stats isn’t important is a way of trying to avoid that conversation. It’s important.
Heres the stats from FBI data

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

Homicide victims:
52% white,  43% black

For white victims:
White offender 81%

Black offender 15%

For black victims:
white offender 7%

Black offender 90%

Why can’t we talk about this? When blacks make up about 15% of the country, but we have data like this we can’t talk about it?

B on W violence is twice as high as W on B.
Black deaths make up almost half the victims. 

Everyone knows gang violence is a major problem, but we can’t talk about it.

Now I don’t think murder and violence is a black problem. It’s mostly a poverty problem. and a few other major issues that effect black communities more. But we won’t solve anything if we can’t talk about it.

I would say look deeper at the policies that have created communities with less opportunity and a higher incidence of crime. Redlining, eminent domain, FBI involvement in deligitimizing Black owned businesses especially bookstores up until the mid 1970’s, CIA funneling of crack cocaine to support Latin American guerilla armies. Racism against black people in general that is in fact contrary to popular belief still a thing.  Never getting promised reparations to help create a more equitable society. Gentrification. Generational trauma among other things.  But sure let’s say black on black crime so we don’t have to view it as a problem for all Americans especially the majority.  When people talk about defunding the police and cutting the pentagons budget, they are talking about investing in these communities to make opportunities and an equitable society possible.   Othering a group by saying black on black crime as if it isn’t a problem for all Americans is not helping anyone and does absolutely nothing to address the underlying causes or what can be done to improve the lives of people living in economically disadvantaged areas.  The real conversation that people want to avoid is how long America has turned it’s backs on the most vulnerable populations, not just African Americans, but low income people of all races, trans, gay, Latinx, Asian and anyone that doesn’t fit into the societal definition of a “productive American”. The real question is what does dividing crime statistics by race actually bring to the discussion?

I acknowledge a deeper root to the problem, just didn’t get into it. Poverty is still the biggest contribution, but many things contribute to poverty.
You can’t solve a problem if you refuse to acknowledge it. If gun violence is a problem, don’t just blindly make gun laws. Find out what the problem is and address that. Knowing how crime stats break down racially can help answer some of those questions.

You don’t see any value in knowing which communities statistically suffer from more crime? How would you know where to put those extra resources you were talking about if you don’t know that?

F Me In The Brain

Ledbetterman10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

RYME said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I watched that too....and it is the opinion of one random guy.  
(A random guy who apparently has never heard of the Internal Affairs division already present in most major police departments )
Keep on educating.....

What a joke.

Not just you F Me In The Brain, most of these,,,  Look at how racist these rebuttals actually are.
One random (black guy) who you just dismiss because he don't fit your narrative??  The few who dare to wander off the plantation??  The hypocrisy and bigotry on your side is off the charts   Just shrug them off, they dont count. Yup just Uncle Toms and Aunt Jemimas to you.

Well....I dismiss the idea that the African American and Latino communities think that Trump is the best president for their concerns since Lincoln can be supported by the view of one person.  
I find the stance you are taking to be nonsensical.  You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I am entitled to comment that it is an opinion shared by exactly Zero black people I know and Zero Latino people I know (or am related to, being part Latino myself.).
I do find it to be a laughable idea.  A joke.

The President does not care about black people.  This should be clear by now.  He only cares about silver spoon, blue bloods.  He doesn't care about anyone else.

This is incorrect. He doesn't care about "silver spoon" and "blue bloods." Nor does he care about black people or white people. He ONLY cares about himself. That's it. Nobody else. Okay, maybe he cares about Ivanka too. But even that's a stretch. 

Ha.  That made me laugh.

static111

https://twitter.com/berniceking/status/1280160502551851009?s=21

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

RYME said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I watched that too....and it is the opinion of one random guy.  
(A random guy who apparently has never heard of the Internal Affairs division already present in most major police departments )
Keep on educating.....

What a joke.

Ok stick your heads in the sand ostriches.  You are a joke!
How did the big cities run by democrates do this past weekend?  NYC?> Chicago?> Atlanta,> Philadelphia>>>
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/chicago-gun-violence-2-children-among-several-killed-over-fourth-of-july-weekend/
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bullet-strikes-nypd-patrol-vehicle-misses-officers-sitting-inside/2500243/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/chicago-shootings-july-4-weekend/index.html

I wonder why these sort of shootings rarely get posted in the Gun Violence thread...

Feel free to spend your day searching the web for every shooting article you can find. I’d appreciate the help in illustrating how ridiculous of a problem “responsible” gun owners are. But I’ll make it easy:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

And look at all those shootings in red states. When are the repubs going to do something about it?

I think you already have that covered: spending your day searching the web for shooting articles. You just cherry-pick what you post. You don't post when it's black-on-black crime or gun violence in democrat-ran cities...for obvious reasons. 

I was under the impression that there is only crime and not crime. Not black on black crime or white on white crime or white on black crime etc...just crime. Am I wrong there?  I feel like the term black on black crime gets thrown around to take away some level of the seriousness of crime. Gun violence is gun violence in my mind.

I always view being told race within crime stats isn’t important is a way of trying to avoid that conversation. It’s important.
Heres the stats from FBI data

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

Homicide victims:
52% white,  43% black

For white victims:
White offender 81%

Black offender 15%

For black victims:
white offender 7%

Black offender 90%

Why can’t we talk about this? When blacks make up about 15% of the country, but we have data like this we can’t talk about it?

B on W violence is twice as high as W on B.
Black deaths make up almost half the victims. 

Everyone knows gang violence is a major problem, but we can’t talk about it.

Now I don’t think murder and violence is a black problem. It’s mostly a poverty problem. and a few other major issues that effect black communities more. But we won’t solve anything if we can’t talk about it.

I would say look deeper at the policies that have created communities with less opportunity and a higher incidence of crime. Redlining, eminent domain, FBI involvement in deligitimizing Black owned businesses especially bookstores up until the mid 1970’s, CIA funneling of crack cocaine to support Latin American guerilla armies. Racism against black people in general that is in fact contrary to popular belief still a thing.  Never getting promised reparations to help create a more equitable society. Gentrification. Generational trauma among other things.  But sure let’s say black on black crime so we don’t have to view it as a problem for all Americans especially the majority.  When people talk about defunding the police and cutting the pentagons budget, they are talking about investing in these communities to make opportunities and an equitable society possible.   Othering a group by saying black on black crime as if it isn’t a problem for all Americans is not helping anyone and does absolutely nothing to address the underlying causes or what can be done to improve the lives of people living in economically disadvantaged areas.  The real conversation that people want to avoid is how long America has turned it’s backs on the most vulnerable populations, not just African Americans, but low income people of all races, trans, gay, Latinx, Asian and anyone that doesn’t fit into the societal definition of a “productive American”. The real question is what does dividing crime statistics by race actually bring to the discussion?

I acknowledge a deeper root to the problem, just didn’t get into it. Poverty is still the biggest contribution, but many things contribute to poverty.
You can’t solve a problem if you refuse to acknowledge it. If gun violence is a problem, don’t just blindly make gun laws. Find out what the problem is and address that. Knowing how crime stats break down racially can help answer some of those questions.

You don’t see any value in knowing which communities statistically suffer from more crime? How would you know where to put those extra resources you were talking about if you don’t know that?

We already know which communities statistically suffer from more crime - the ones that are socioeconomically disadvantaged. Their skin colour doesn't matter - it's the same story whether the inhabitants are white, Black, Latino, Asian, etc. "Breaking it down by race" adds nothing productive. 

tempo_n_groove

F Me In The Brain said:

I don't hear many minorities making that claim.  They hold up a few and pretend that is voice for the many.
Guessing you are white, making this claim.

Low hanging fruit.  You're better than that.

F Me In The Brain

tempo_n_groove said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I don't hear many minorities making that claim.  They hold up a few and pretend that is voice for the many.
Guessing you are white, making this claim.

Low hanging fruit.  You're better than that.

No, it is part of my point that I don't know a single black person saying this, nor a single Latino person.
I get his point I just disagree....my PR relatives sure as heck don't think so after the hurricane.

brianlux

I did read about one black man who thinks Trump has been good for blacks, but probably in in the way some might think. 

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/trumps-presidency-has-accelerated-the-predicted-collapse-of-the-republican-party-columnist/?fbclid=IwAR1uCw05S2ef2E1rqZWLxdZTf74zaI5CxWMaIjjKxcZO-b0aq4J18Xfn4QQ

Citing the work of a University of a Washington political scientist, the Washington Post’s Dana Milbank said Donald Trump and his racist rhetoric have accelerated the decline of the Republican party in a country that is seeing major demographic changes and because white voters are increasingly turned off by it.

As Milbank wrote, four years ago Christopher Parker, who is Black, predicted a Trump candidacy would “do more to advance racial understanding than the election of Barack Obama.”

Writing in the American Prospect, Parker explained, “Trump’s clear bigotry makes it impossible for whites to deny the existence of racism in America. . . . His success clashes with many white Americans’ vision of the United States as a fair and just place.”

Turning back to Parker, who made the bold prediction about Trump before he was elected in 2016, the political scientist admitted he was pleased that he was correct.

“I know it sounds crazy, especially coming from a black man,” he told Milbank. “I think Trump actually is one of the best things that’s happened in this country.”

I'm pretty sure this is the Parker they are talking about:

https://www.polisci.washington.edu/people/christopher-sebastian-parker

oftenreading

brianlux said:

I did read about one black man who thinks Trump has been good for blacks, but probably in in the way some might think. 

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/trumps-presidency-has-accelerated-the-predicted-collapse-of-the-republican-party-columnist/?fbclid=IwAR1uCw05S2ef2E1rqZWLxdZTf74zaI5CxWMaIjjKxcZO-b0aq4J18Xfn4QQ

Citing the work of a University of a Washington political scientist, the Washington Post’s Dana Milbank said Donald Trump and his racist rhetoric have accelerated the decline of the Republican party in a country that is seeing major demographic changes and because white voters are increasingly turned off by it.

As Milbank wrote, four years ago Christopher Parker, who is Black, predicted a Trump candidacy would “do more to advance racial understanding than the election of Barack Obama.”

Writing in the American Prospect, Parker explained, “Trump’s clear bigotry makes it impossible for whites to deny the existence of racism in America. . . . His success clashes with many white Americans’ vision of the United States as a fair and just place.”

Turning back to Parker, who made the bold prediction about Trump before he was elected in 2016, the political scientist admitted he was pleased that he was correct.

“I know it sounds crazy, especially coming from a black man,” he told Milbank. “I think Trump actually is one of the best things that’s happened in this country.”

I'm pretty sure this is the Parker they are talking about:

https://www.polisci.washington.edu/people/christopher-sebastian-parker

Apparently not quite “impossible”, but much more difficult than it used to be, particularly given recent events.  Silver lining here!

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

I did read about one black man who thinks Trump has been good for blacks, but probably in in the way some might think. 

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/trumps-presidency-has-accelerated-the-predicted-collapse-of-the-republican-party-columnist/?fbclid=IwAR1uCw05S2ef2E1rqZWLxdZTf74zaI5CxWMaIjjKxcZO-b0aq4J18Xfn4QQ

Citing the work of a University of a Washington political scientist, the Washington Post’s Dana Milbank said Donald Trump and his racist rhetoric have accelerated the decline of the Republican party in a country that is seeing major demographic changes and because white voters are increasingly turned off by it.

As Milbank wrote, four years ago Christopher Parker, who is Black, predicted a Trump candidacy would “do more to advance racial understanding than the election of Barack Obama.”

Writing in the American Prospect, Parker explained, “Trump’s clear bigotry makes it impossible for whites to deny the existence of racism in America. . . . His success clashes with many white Americans’ vision of the United States as a fair and just place.”

Turning back to Parker, who made the bold prediction about Trump before he was elected in 2016, the political scientist admitted he was pleased that he was correct.

“I know it sounds crazy, especially coming from a black man,” he told Milbank. “I think Trump actually is one of the best things that’s happened in this country.”

I'm pretty sure this is the Parker they are talking about:

https://www.polisci.washington.edu/people/christopher-sebastian-parker

Apparently not quite “impossible”, but much more difficult than it used to be, particularly given recent events.  Silver lining here!

True!   Sadly, there are still those in denial about America's racism, or are actually proud of being racist. 

All this reminds me of what Henry Rollins said shortly after Trump was elected which was basically, "Well, at least now America is more transparent than ever".

dignin

RYME said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I watched that too....and it is the opinion of one random guy.  
(A random guy who apparently has never heard of the Internal Affairs division already present in most major police departments )
Keep on educating.....

What a joke.

Ok stick your heads in the sand ostriches.  You are a joke!
How did the big cities run by democrates do this past weekend?  NYC?> Chicago?> Atlanta,> Philadelphia>>>
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/chicago-gun-violence-2-children-among-several-killed-over-fourth-of-july-weekend/
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bullet-strikes-nypd-patrol-vehicle-misses-officers-sitting-inside/2500243/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/chicago-shootings-july-4-weekend/index.html

"Those news sources you list have all been taken over by the left.  Journalism is pretty much dead in mainstream media."

Halifax2TheMax

Ledbetterman10 said:

tbergs said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

RYME said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I watched that too....and it is the opinion of one random guy.  
(A random guy who apparently has never heard of the Internal Affairs division already present in most major police departments )
Keep on educating.....

What a joke.

Ok stick your heads in the sand ostriches.  You are a joke!
How did the big cities run by democrates do this past weekend?  NYC?> Chicago?> Atlanta,> Philadelphia>>>
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/chicago-gun-violence-2-children-among-several-killed-over-fourth-of-july-weekend/
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bullet-strikes-nypd-patrol-vehicle-misses-officers-sitting-inside/2500243/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/chicago-shootings-july-4-weekend/index.html

I wonder why these sort of shootings rarely get posted in the Gun Violence thread...

It would be a full time job for anyone to post all of the shootings that occur in this country daily. The gun violence thread exists because many refuse to acknowledge that we need to make a change to gun ownership and requirements of such in this country. Those articles only further exemplify why gun reform is needed. 

Fair enough, and I'm not saying every shooting should be posted. But where's the criticism of the leaders of those violence cities? Shouldn't the mayor of Chicago be called upon to fight for gun reform more than anyone? 

Why does it have to be up to the political leaders of either party? Why can’t it be up to “responsible” gun owners? After all, every firearm enters the market as a legal firearm and every initial purchase of said firearm is by a “responsible” gun owner.

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

RYME said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I watched that too....and it is the opinion of one random guy.  
(A random guy who apparently has never heard of the Internal Affairs division already present in most major police departments )
Keep on educating.....

What a joke.

Ok stick your heads in the sand ostriches.  You are a joke!
How did the big cities run by democrates do this past weekend?  NYC?> Chicago?> Atlanta,> Philadelphia>>>
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/chicago-gun-violence-2-children-among-several-killed-over-fourth-of-july-weekend/
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bullet-strikes-nypd-patrol-vehicle-misses-officers-sitting-inside/2500243/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/chicago-shootings-july-4-weekend/index.html

I wonder why these sort of shootings rarely get posted in the Gun Violence thread...

Feel free to spend your day searching the web for every shooting article you can find. I’d appreciate the help in illustrating how ridiculous of a problem “responsible” gun owners are. But I’ll make it easy:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

And look at all those shootings in red states. When are the repubs going to do something about it?

I think you already have that covered: spending your day searching the web for shooting articles. You just cherry-pick what you post. You don't post when it's black-on-black crime or gun violence in democrat-ran cities...for obvious reasons. 

I was under the impression that there is only crime and not crime. Not black on black crime or white on white crime or white on black crime etc...just crime. Am I wrong there?  I feel like the term black on black crime gets thrown around to take away some level of the seriousness of crime. Gun violence is gun violence in my mind.

I always view being told race within crime stats isn’t important is a way of trying to avoid that conversation. It’s important.
Heres the stats from FBI data

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

Homicide victims:
52% white,  43% black

For white victims:
White offender 81%

Black offender 15%

For black victims:
white offender 7%

Black offender 90%

Why can’t we talk about this? When blacks make up about 15% of the country, but we have data like this we can’t talk about it?

B on W violence is twice as high as W on B.
Black deaths make up almost half the victims. 

Everyone knows gang violence is a major problem, but we can’t talk about it.

Now I don’t think murder and violence is a black problem. It’s mostly a poverty problem. and a few other major issues that effect black communities more. But we won’t solve anything if we can’t talk about it.

I would say look deeper at the policies that have created communities with less opportunity and a higher incidence of crime. Redlining, eminent domain, FBI involvement in deligitimizing Black owned businesses especially bookstores up until the mid 1970’s, CIA funneling of crack cocaine to support Latin American guerilla armies. Racism against black people in general that is in fact contrary to popular belief still a thing.  Never getting promised reparations to help create a more equitable society. Gentrification. Generational trauma among other things.  But sure let’s say black on black crime so we don’t have to view it as a problem for all Americans especially the majority.  When people talk about defunding the police and cutting the pentagons budget, they are talking about investing in these communities to make opportunities and an equitable society possible.   Othering a group by saying black on black crime as if it isn’t a problem for all Americans is not helping anyone and does absolutely nothing to address the underlying causes or what can be done to improve the lives of people living in economically disadvantaged areas.  The real conversation that people want to avoid is how long America has turned it’s backs on the most vulnerable populations, not just African Americans, but low income people of all races, trans, gay, Latinx, Asian and anyone that doesn’t fit into the societal definition of a “productive American”. The real question is what does dividing crime statistics by race actually bring to the discussion?

I acknowledge a deeper root to the problem, just didn’t get into it. Poverty is still the biggest contribution, but many things contribute to poverty.
You can’t solve a problem if you refuse to acknowledge it. If gun violence is a problem, don’t just blindly make gun laws. Find out what the problem is and address that. Knowing how crime stats break down racially can help answer some of those questions.

You don’t see any value in knowing which communities statistically suffer from more crime? How would you know where to put those extra resources you were talking about if you don’t know that?

We already know which communities statistically suffer from more crime - the ones that are socioeconomically disadvantaged. Their skin colour doesn't matter - it's the same story whether the inhabitants are white, Black, Latino, Asian, etc. "Breaking it down by race" adds nothing productive. 

Somehow I believe of the data was reversed, if white on black crime was far worse, or if whites committed far more crimes their their respective population, it would be talked about a lot more.

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

RYME said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I watched that too....and it is the opinion of one random guy.  
(A random guy who apparently has never heard of the Internal Affairs division already present in most major police departments )
Keep on educating.....

What a joke.

Ok stick your heads in the sand ostriches.  You are a joke!
How did the big cities run by democrates do this past weekend?  NYC?> Chicago?> Atlanta,> Philadelphia>>>
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/chicago-gun-violence-2-children-among-several-killed-over-fourth-of-july-weekend/
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bullet-strikes-nypd-patrol-vehicle-misses-officers-sitting-inside/2500243/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/chicago-shootings-july-4-weekend/index.html

I wonder why these sort of shootings rarely get posted in the Gun Violence thread...

Feel free to spend your day searching the web for every shooting article you can find. I’d appreciate the help in illustrating how ridiculous of a problem “responsible” gun owners are. But I’ll make it easy:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

And look at all those shootings in red states. When are the repubs going to do something about it?

I think you already have that covered: spending your day searching the web for shooting articles. You just cherry-pick what you post. You don't post when it's black-on-black crime or gun violence in democrat-ran cities...for obvious reasons. 

I was under the impression that there is only crime and not crime. Not black on black crime or white on white crime or white on black crime etc...just crime. Am I wrong there?  I feel like the term black on black crime gets thrown around to take away some level of the seriousness of crime. Gun violence is gun violence in my mind.

I always view being told race within crime stats isn’t important is a way of trying to avoid that conversation. It’s important.
Heres the stats from FBI data

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

Homicide victims:
52% white,  43% black

For white victims:
White offender 81%

Black offender 15%

For black victims:
white offender 7%

Black offender 90%

Why can’t we talk about this? When blacks make up about 15% of the country, but we have data like this we can’t talk about it?

B on W violence is twice as high as W on B.
Black deaths make up almost half the victims. 

Everyone knows gang violence is a major problem, but we can’t talk about it.

Now I don’t think murder and violence is a black problem. It’s mostly a poverty problem. and a few other major issues that effect black communities more. But we won’t solve anything if we can’t talk about it.

I would say look deeper at the policies that have created communities with less opportunity and a higher incidence of crime. Redlining, eminent domain, FBI involvement in deligitimizing Black owned businesses especially bookstores up until the mid 1970’s, CIA funneling of crack cocaine to support Latin American guerilla armies. Racism against black people in general that is in fact contrary to popular belief still a thing.  Never getting promised reparations to help create a more equitable society. Gentrification. Generational trauma among other things.  But sure let’s say black on black crime so we don’t have to view it as a problem for all Americans especially the majority.  When people talk about defunding the police and cutting the pentagons budget, they are talking about investing in these communities to make opportunities and an equitable society possible.   Othering a group by saying black on black crime as if it isn’t a problem for all Americans is not helping anyone and does absolutely nothing to address the underlying causes or what can be done to improve the lives of people living in economically disadvantaged areas.  The real conversation that people want to avoid is how long America has turned it’s backs on the most vulnerable populations, not just African Americans, but low income people of all races, trans, gay, Latinx, Asian and anyone that doesn’t fit into the societal definition of a “productive American”. The real question is what does dividing crime statistics by race actually bring to the discussion?

I acknowledge a deeper root to the problem, just didn’t get into it. Poverty is still the biggest contribution, but many things contribute to poverty.
You can’t solve a problem if you refuse to acknowledge it. If gun violence is a problem, don’t just blindly make gun laws. Find out what the problem is and address that. Knowing how crime stats break down racially can help answer some of those questions.

You don’t see any value in knowing which communities statistically suffer from more crime? How would you know where to put those extra resources you were talking about if you don’t know that?

We already know which communities statistically suffer from more crime - the ones that are socioeconomically disadvantaged. Their skin colour doesn't matter - it's the same story whether the inhabitants are white, Black, Latino, Asian, etc. "Breaking it down by race" adds nothing productive. 

Somehow I believe of the data was reversed, if white on black crime was far worse, or if whites committed far more crimes their their respective population, it would be talked about a lot more.

Why do you believe that?

Edit: To put some parameters around that, I guess we’d need to know if you posit this increase in white crime given the current socioeconomic realities, or assuming the socioeconomic realities were reversed. Because if white people retained their socioeconomic position relative to black people and yet had higher crime rates, that would be quite interesting and worth studying. 

Otherwise, it simply mirrors what we know about crime in virtually every developed society. 

Ledbetterman10

Halifax2TheMax said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

tbergs said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

RYME said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I watched that too....and it is the opinion of one random guy.  
(A random guy who apparently has never heard of the Internal Affairs division already present in most major police departments )
Keep on educating.....

What a joke.

Ok stick your heads in the sand ostriches.  You are a joke!
How did the big cities run by democrates do this past weekend?  NYC?> Chicago?> Atlanta,> Philadelphia>>>
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/chicago-gun-violence-2-children-among-several-killed-over-fourth-of-july-weekend/
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bullet-strikes-nypd-patrol-vehicle-misses-officers-sitting-inside/2500243/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/chicago-shootings-july-4-weekend/index.html

I wonder why these sort of shootings rarely get posted in the Gun Violence thread...

It would be a full time job for anyone to post all of the shootings that occur in this country daily. The gun violence thread exists because many refuse to acknowledge that we need to make a change to gun ownership and requirements of such in this country. Those articles only further exemplify why gun reform is needed. 

Fair enough, and I'm not saying every shooting should be posted. But where's the criticism of the leaders of those violence cities? Shouldn't the mayor of Chicago be called upon to fight for gun reform more than anyone? 

Why does it have to be up to the political leaders of either party? Why can’t it be up to “responsible” gun owners? After all, every firearm enters the market as a legal firearm and every initial purchase of said firearm is by a “responsible” gun owner.

This is ridiculous. Yeah elected officials shouldn’t bother. Illegal arms dealers and crooked gun show salesman should just learn to be more responsible. 

oftenreading

Ledbetterman10 said:

tbergs said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

RYME said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Yeah I watched that too....and it is the opinion of one random guy.  
(A random guy who apparently has never heard of the Internal Affairs division already present in most major police departments )
Keep on educating.....

What a joke.

Ok stick your heads in the sand ostriches.  You are a joke!
How did the big cities run by democrates do this past weekend?  NYC?> Chicago?> Atlanta,> Philadelphia>>>
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/chicago-gun-violence-2-children-among-several-killed-over-fourth-of-july-weekend/
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/bullet-strikes-nypd-patrol-vehicle-misses-officers-sitting-inside/2500243/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/us/chicago-shootings-july-4-weekend/index.html

I wonder why these sort of shootings rarely get posted in the Gun Violence thread...

It would be a full time job for anyone to post all of the shootings that occur in this country daily. The gun violence thread exists because many refuse to acknowledge that we need to make a change to gun ownership and requirements of such in this country. Those articles only further exemplify why gun reform is needed. 

Fair enough, and I'm not saying every shooting should be posted. But where's the criticism of the leaders of those violence cities? Shouldn't the mayor of Chicago be called upon to fight for gun reform more than anyone? 

Actually, the mayor of Chicago is pretty active in discussions around gun control, but the majority of guns used in crime in Chicago come from out of state.