Oh no a fictional character was defaced *wrings hands* “let’s discount real oppression happening in our society“
Its a symbol of one of t he biggest religions in the world. You don’t think that’s sending a message? If painting over BLM is considered a hate crime then this certainly should be too. But if you’re okay with burning Mart are you okay with vandalizing a mosque or painting over BLM? The destruction of property has gotten out of control at this point.
I thought this was the Black Lives Matter thread not the property destruction matters thread Or the all property matters thread or the tsk tsk how can we take your movement seriously when graffiti thread.. Maybe we can use another thread to talk about vandalism and use this thread to talk about very real problems that people are finally starting to look at?
So you don’t see the widespread destruction of property as a problem? And you don’t see a connection between that and BLM? Even though the comment that started this conversation was about people vandalizing a BLM mural?
I think BLM and vandalism are two different discussions. I don’t think BLM is responsible for destruction of property, individuals are. I’m not sure how widespread this”destruction of property “ is. How big of a percentage of property is being destroyed? How many people are affected by the destruction of property? Again this is pulling away from the thread topic. Black Lives Matter. If you want to talk about widespread property “destruction” I would say start a new thread. Don’t try to use vandalism as a corollary to BLM.
Well its pretty hard to not associate BLM w/ vandalism, looting, and destruction when one walks through the streets of Shitcago and sees BLM / ACAB graffiti everywhere you look downtown. I had to go into the shitty today to for some business meetings and couldn't not believe how many storefronts are still boarded up from the "Protests" last month. Even had the opportunity to be WOKE and walked by a small rally to Defund the Police by Trump Tower......Had a laugh watching these nitwits yell at a building while taking selfies for their social media.
After you get some slamming the damn leftie commie pinkos and freaks maybe slam this (or what ever floats your boat)!
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I think it's pretty disingenuous to think the recent protests along with the looting, spray painting, tearing down statues etc followed by elected officials spray painting their own streets doesn't have an effect on other situations. It was the catalyst. And in most cases, it was pure vandalism. Going far beyond the message of Black Lives Matter.
Some people will do anything they can to distract from the message. (This is all over the country.)
All lives matter Look at the looting
Holy Mary, mother may I Black Beans Matter Police aren't all bad
This all comes from the same place, to me.
Defend the white stronghold in America.
Those notes up there are not wrong. (Well, the Goya line is complete stupidity) They just don't need to be a part of the discussion to try and address the issues of systemic racism in the US. To make them so is to deflect and defend. My opinion - as a mostly white male American, whose minority status is not visible or part of my surname so not negatively impacting on my life in America.
Some people will do anything they can to distract from the message. (This is all over the country.)
All lives matter Look at the looting
Holy Mary, mother may I Black Beans Matter Police aren't all bad
This all comes from the same place, to me.
Defend the white stronghold in America.
Those notes up there are not wrong. (Well, the Goya line is complete stupidity) They just don't need to be a part of the discussion to try and address the issues of systemic racism in the US. To make them so is to deflect and defend. My opinion - as a mostly white male American, whose minority status is not visible or part of my surname so not negatively impacting on my life in America.
So I strongly disagree. There are PLENTY of people doing exactly what you say. But talking about it doesn't put everyone in that same boat. When did everything become so black and white (no pun intended)? It doesn't have to be all or none.
Some people will do anything they can to distract from the message. (This is all over the country.)
All lives matter Look at the looting
Holy Mary, mother may I Black Beans Matter Police aren't all bad
This all comes from the same place, to me.
Defend the white stronghold in America.
Those notes up there are not wrong. (Well, the Goya line is complete stupidity) They just don't need to be a part of the discussion to try and address the issues of systemic racism in the US. To make them so is to deflect and defend. My opinion - as a mostly white male American, whose minority status is not visible or part of my surname so not negatively impacting on my life in America.
So I strongly disagree. There are PLENTY of people doing exactly what you say. But talking about it doesn't put everyone in that same boat. When did everything become so black and white (no pun intended)? It doesn't have to be all or none.
I think it does. We can disagree, I just feel compelled to share my opinion on this every so often in response to the many posts in this thread taking away from the overall message. Who knows, perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps there should be another thread called Systemic Racism In America....but I feel strongly that these posts would find their way to that thread as well. Do everything but address the idea that there is a sizeable percentage of people who are positioned to fail in our country of so called equality and justice for all
Oh no a fictional character was defaced *wrings hands* “let’s discount real oppression happening in our society“
Its a symbol of one of t he biggest religions in the world. You don’t think that’s sending a message? If painting over BLM is considered a hate crime then this certainly should be too. But if you’re okay with burning Mart are you okay with vandalizing a mosque or painting over BLM? The destruction of property has gotten out of control at this point.
I thought this was the Black Lives Matter thread not the property destruction matters thread Or the all property matters thread or the tsk tsk how can we take your movement seriously when graffiti thread.. Maybe we can use another thread to talk about vandalism and use this thread to talk about very real problems that people are finally starting to look at?
So you don’t see the widespread destruction of property as a problem? And you don’t see a connection between that and BLM? Even though the comment that started this conversation was about people vandalizing a BLM mural?
I think BLM and vandalism are two different discussions. I don’t think BLM is responsible for destruction of property, individuals are. I’m not sure how widespread this”destruction of property “ is. How big of a percentage of property is being destroyed? How many people are affected by the destruction of property? Again this is pulling away from the thread topic. Black Lives Matter. If you want to talk about widespread property “destruction” I would say start a new thread. Don’t try to use vandalism as a corollary to BLM.
Well its pretty hard to not associate BLM w/ vandalism, looting, and destruction when one walks through the streets of Shitcago and sees BLM / ACAB graffiti everywhere you look downtown. I had to go into the shitty today to for some business meetings and couldn't not believe how many storefronts are still boarded up from the "Protests" last month. Even had the opportunity to be WOKE and walked by a small rally to Defund the Police by Trump Tower......Had a laugh watching these nitwits yell at a building while taking selfies for their social media.
After you get some slamming the damn leftie commie pinkos and freaks maybe slam this (or what ever floats your boat)!
Don’t you worry, been doing plenty of that during this Pandemic and resurgence of this Farce known as BLM. Luckily mostly at our summer home on a quiet lake in the Northwoods of Wisconsin.
Irl everyone I have met when in WI has been very nice. Many here posting from WI seem to be the people who hate equality and support division and oppression.
Oh no a fictional character was defaced *wrings hands* “let’s discount real oppression happening in our society“
Its a symbol of one of t he biggest religions in the world. You don’t think that’s sending a message? If painting over BLM is considered a hate crime then this certainly should be too. But if you’re okay with burning Mart are you okay with vandalizing a mosque or painting over BLM? The destruction of property has gotten out of control at this point.
I thought this was the Black Lives Matter thread not the property destruction matters thread Or the all property matters thread or the tsk tsk how can we take your movement seriously when graffiti thread.. Maybe we can use another thread to talk about vandalism and use this thread to talk about very real problems that people are finally starting to look at?
So you don’t see the widespread destruction of property as a problem? And you don’t see a connection between that and BLM? Even though the comment that started this conversation was about people vandalizing a BLM mural?
I think BLM and vandalism are two different discussions. I don’t think BLM is responsible for destruction of property, individuals are. I’m not sure how widespread this”destruction of property “ is. How big of a percentage of property is being destroyed? How many people are affected by the destruction of property? Again this is pulling away from the thread topic. Black Lives Matter. If you want to talk about widespread property “destruction” I would say start a new thread. Don’t try to use vandalism as a corollary to BLM.
Well its pretty hard to not associate BLM w/ vandalism, looting, and destruction when one walks through the streets of Shitcago and sees BLM / ACAB graffiti everywhere you look downtown. I had to go into the shitty today to for some business meetings and couldn't not believe how many storefronts are still boarded up from the "Protests" last month. Even had the opportunity to be WOKE and walked by a small rally to Defund the Police by Trump Tower......Had a laugh watching these nitwits yell at a building while taking selfies for their social media.
It's also pretty hard to not associate posts like yours with fear, hate, ignorance, homophobia, racism, and xenophobia.
Oh no a fictional character was defaced *wrings hands* “let’s discount real oppression happening in our society“
Its a symbol of one of t he biggest religions in the world. You don’t think that’s sending a message? If painting over BLM is considered a hate crime then this certainly should be too. But if you’re okay with burning Mart are you okay with vandalizing a mosque or painting over BLM? The destruction of property has gotten out of control at this point.
I thought this was the Black Lives Matter thread not the property destruction matters thread Or the all property matters thread or the tsk tsk how can we take your movement seriously when graffiti thread.. Maybe we can use another thread to talk about vandalism and use this thread to talk about very real problems that people are finally starting to look at?
So you don’t see the widespread destruction of property as a problem? And you don’t see a connection between that and BLM? Even though the comment that started this conversation was about people vandalizing a BLM mural?
I think BLM and vandalism are two different discussions. I don’t think BLM is responsible for destruction of property, individuals are. I’m not sure how widespread this”destruction of property “ is. How big of a percentage of property is being destroyed? How many people are affected by the destruction of property? Again this is pulling away from the thread topic. Black Lives Matter. If you want to talk about widespread property “destruction” I would say start a new thread. Don’t try to use vandalism as a corollary to BLM.
Well its pretty hard to not associate BLM w/ vandalism, looting, and destruction when one walks through the streets of Shitcago and sees BLM / ACAB graffiti everywhere you look downtown. I had to go into the shitty today to for some business meetings and couldn't not believe how many storefronts are still boarded up from the "Protests" last month. Even had the opportunity to be WOKE and walked by a small rally to Defund the Police by Trump Tower......Had a laugh watching these nitwits yell at a building while taking selfies for their social media.
It's also pretty hard to not associate posts like yours with fear, hate, ignorance, homophobia, racism, and xenophobia.
MASK IT OR CASKET
It reads like a post by that musky dude that used to post here all the time. When I read it, I thought he must have been back.
After doing a bit of research it's clear to me that systemic racism and overt racism certainly do exist.
If you're white and your response to "Black Lives Matter" is "All Lives Matter" then you either don't realize that such racism exists, or you yourself may be a tad bit racist. I'm not trying to piss people off, but come on... how can you say things have been fair for black people? Now your intention may be good spirited in that yes of course "All Lives Matter" but it's almost insulting to black people who may perceive that as a clear misunderstanding that black people have not had it as good as white people for many years.
Associating BLM with vandalism and looting also isn't entirely fair. Generally speaking, anything that causes people to get riled up leads to rioting/looting. See G20 protests, sporting championship celebrations, etc.
I think it should be perfectly fine to disagree with the rioting but also understanding what BLM is, why it became a thing, and why black people are distinct from other people. Any disagreement with BLM is just ignorance in my opinion. And by that I mean, you're being ignorant to many years of oppression not just through slavery hundreds of years ago, but government policy in the 20th century in particular, fear, and straight up blatant racism either from police, businesses, white supremacists, etc.
Personally I've been asking myself lately as a white guy how I might feel if I was black. Not just thinking about how my father and grandfather may have been treated when they grew up, but how I would feel knowing that I was stripped of equal opportunity by my government through segregation policies that seem to blatantly be aimed at keeping white people ahead of black people. More often than not, I come to the conclusion that I would be super pissed off.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
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Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
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Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
After doing a bit of research it's clear to me that systemic racism and overt racism certainly do exist.
If you're white and your response to "Black Lives Matter" is "All Lives Matter" then you either don't realize that such racism exists, or you yourself may be a tad bit racist. I'm not trying to piss people off, but come on... how can you say things have been fair for black people? Now your intention may be good spirited in that yes of course "All Lives Matter" but it's almost insulting to black people who may perceive that as a clear misunderstanding that black people have not had it as good as white people for many years.
Associating BLM with vandalism and looting also isn't entirely fair. Generally speaking, anything that causes people to get riled up leads to rioting/looting. See G20 protests, sporting championship celebrations, etc.
I think it should be perfectly fine to disagree with the rioting but also understanding what BLM is, why it became a thing, and why black people are distinct from other people. Any disagreement with BLM is just ignorance in my opinion. And by that I mean, you're being ignorant to many years of oppression not just through slavery hundreds of years ago, but government policy in the 20th century in particular, fear, and straight up blatant racism either from police, businesses, white supremacists, etc.
Personally I've been asking myself lately as a white guy how I might feel if I was black. Not just thinking about how my father and grandfather may have been treated when they grew up, but how I would feel knowing that I was stripped of equal opportunity by my government through segregation policies that seem to blatantly be aimed at keeping white people ahead of black people. More often than not, I come to the conclusion that I would be super pissed off.
Any disagreement with BLM is just ignorance in my opinion. And by that I mean, you're being ignorant to many years of oppression not just through slavery hundreds of years ago, but government policy in the 20th century in particular, fear, and straight up blatant racism either from police, businesses, white supremacists, etc.
I wish there was more of a distinction between the phrase "Black Lives Matter" and the group/movement "Black Lives Matter." Because as far as the phrase goes, I'm with it. There is systemic racism and black people are warranted to have a belief that the government doesn't think they "matter."
As for the movement, the initial concept to end police brutality and eradicate systemic racism, I'm with that too.
Everything since then, I'm pretty much against. I'm against De Blasio pandering by painting on streets. I'm against Pelosi dismissing violence and looting (calm down, it's by white people too. I'm not saying only black people were looting) when she said in response to it "people will do what they do." I'm against influential black members (Stephen Jackson, Nick Cannon, Ice Cube) of the movement excusing anti-Semitism because they agree with Farrakhan that Jews are the enemy of black people. I'm against the patronizing of black people with special national anthems and stuff like censoring Aunt Jemima (yeah, that's what they're fighting for). And most of all, I'm against people like that woman that wrote that "White Fragility" book that basically outlines how white people as a whole are awful and racist (there's people on this board that seem to feel the same way).
Some people are racist. This includes white people, black people, etc. You don't think black people are racist too? If there's two groups, one was the oppressor, the other was the oppressed, who do you think is going to hate the other more? The difference is, going back to the systemic point, is that black people's racism towards white people doesn't really affect anything other than, I guess, the social fabric. But white people's racism towards black people leads towards landlords refusing to rent to blacks, bosses refusing to hire blacks, and of course, incidents like George Floyd. That all as to go. I'm all for that, but I'm against the rest of the bullshit. So I do disagree with BLM (the movement) while I agree with BLM (the concept).
I, for one, fully support black people and recognize the systematic racism that black people have been subjected to throughout the years. What I do not support or fully agree with is the actual organization or BLM “Chapters” and their goals that are rooted in Marxism, leaders even going as far as saying they are “trained marxists”. I know a lot of people around here have their own views of Marxism, but I just cannot get on board with it.
I do not think that anyone that does not support “BLM” should automatically be labeled as racist without further investigation.
For me, BPM (black people matter). Black lives do matter. I am weary of wearing an “#BLM” t-shirt or baseball cap based on what I mentioned above. It’s the same as certain proclaimed “ANTIFA” chapters that are actually pro-anarcho-communism groups. If you say that you are anti-“ANTIFA”, you are declared or assumed to be pro-fascism, which may be the furthest thing from the truth. Some of these “organizations” can almost be compared to the good ol’ Trojan Horse, flying under a flag that supports things well beyond what that flag specifically represents. The same can be said for racist groups on the other end of the spectrum waiving the American flag...or the NRA just claiming to be a gun rights group. Maybe I’m just overly cynical, but I am hesitant to buy into many “labels” or #acronyms.
A lot of good points you mentioned.. but why does censoring Aunt Jemima bother you? And what do you mean by special anthems?
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Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
A lot of good points you mentioned.. but why does censoring Aunt Jemima bother you? And what do you mean by special anthems?
I shouldn't have even thrown that in because I should've known it would take away from the rest of my post.
The special anthem is that before week 1of the NFL games (if they happen), they're going to play a song that's considered the "Black National Anthem" before the real national anthem. I think that’s just patronizing to black people. Same with changing syrup names. It doesn't "bother" me, because what do I care? But I've seen black folks on twitter complaining about these sort of things....that they're getting these little "concessions" that don't even affect them, when they're looking for change in systemic issues that DO affect them. Though, I guess some can argue that changing perceived "racist" things like Aunt Jemima is at least a start.
But yeah, I shouldn't have included this because the other stuff I mentioned in that same paragraph does bother me. This anthem and syrup stuff are things that I, like many black people, simply roll my eyes at.
How you can have money from over a hundred years ago for an event and appropriately dole it out?
I don't see how this is going to work.
Can't believe nobody has touched this yet?
I thought it said they weren't dolling it out...just investing in certain things/areas....I'll have to read again. Asheville is awesome.
Yes, exactly. They want to make it so there is generational wealth passed on.
How and who gets that?
The resolution calls on the city to create the Community Reparations
Commission, inviting community groups and other local governments to
join. It will be the commission's job to make concrete recommendations
for programs and resources to be used. Who knows where this goes, but it seems they have made a commitment.
@Ledbetterman10 This is the first I've heard of the plan to have a different anthem and I agree 100%, that only enhances the divisiveness of the nation. FWIW, I agree with kneeling in protest, but to have a separate anthem is basically promoting separatism... which leads down a rather ugly road.
I agree too about the syrup thing. I heard some folks on TV say that throughout the years being called Gemima was a slur so I totally understand re branding but it is in deed a drop in the ocean. The takeaway being... at least it's something rather than nothing.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
@Ledbetterman10 This is the first I've heard of the plan to have a different anthem and I agree 100%, that only enhances the divisiveness of the nation. FWIW, I agree with kneeling in protest, but to have a separate anthem is basically promoting separatism... which leads down a rather ugly road.
I agree too about the syrup thing. I heard some folks on TV say that throughout the years being called Gemima was a slur so I totally understand re branding but it is in deed a drop in the ocean. The takeaway being... at least it's something rather than nothing.
Yeah I agree. And there's been other things like this. For example, Malcom Jenkins, a football player that was critical of Drew Brees for not liking the kneeling (which is fine), said in response to Desean Jackson's anti-Semitic posts that....
"We can honor the Jewish heritage and trauma while staying focused on what matters,” Jenkins wrote in the caption of his video responding to Jackson. “Jewish people aren’t our problem, and we aren’t their problem. Let’s not lose focus on what the problem truly is, and that’s that black lives still don’t matter in this country."
Not exactly the sort of rehtoric that gets us closer to "One Nation, Under God, Indivisible." That couldn't be more divisible. The same way he wants white people like Drew Brees to care about his plight, he should care about other people's plight.
I won't even get started on Nick Cannon's comments from yesterday. But it was radically divisive as one can be. With that sort of stuff, coupled with Trump's divisiveness, we're more likely to go backward in our quest for racial harmony than forward.
How you can have money from over a hundred years ago for an event and appropriately dole it out?
I don't see how this is going to work.
Can't believe nobody has touched this yet?
I thought it said they weren't dolling it out...just investing in certain things/areas....I'll have to read again. Asheville is awesome.
Yes, exactly. They want to make it so there is generational wealth passed on.
How and who gets that?
The resolution calls on the city to create the Community Reparations
Commission, inviting community groups and other local governments to
join. It will be the commission's job to make concrete recommendations
for programs and resources to be used. Who knows where this goes, but it seems they have made a commitment.
I'm very curious to where the How and Whom this will end up going to. It's nice that there is a commission but, I can picture a lot of people to be angry when they aren't included.
If it goes well for them then great! My worry is of no matter.
@Ledbetterman10 This is the first I've heard of the plan to have a different anthem and I agree 100%, that only enhances the divisiveness of the nation. FWIW, I agree with kneeling in protest, but to have a separate anthem is basically promoting separatism... which leads down a rather ugly road.
I agree too about the syrup thing. I heard some folks on TV say that throughout the years being called Gemima was a slur so I totally understand re branding but it is in deed a drop in the ocean. The takeaway being... at least it's something rather than nothing.
Yeah I agree. And there's been other things like this. For example, Malcom Jenkins, a football player that was critical of Drew Brees for not liking the kneeling (which is fine), said in response to Desean Jackson's anti-Semitic posts that....
"We can honor the Jewish heritage and trauma while staying focused on what matters,” Jenkins wrote in the caption of his video responding to Jackson. “Jewish people aren’t our problem, and we aren’t their problem. Let’s not lose focus on what the problem truly is, and that’s that black lives still don’t matter in this country."
Not exactly the sort of rehtoric that gets us closer to "One Nation, Under God, Indivisible." That couldn't be more divisible. The same way he wants white people like Drew Brees to care about his plight, he should care about other people's plight.
I won't even get started on Nick Cannon's comments from yesterday. But it was radically divisive as one can be. With that sort of stuff, coupled with Trump's divisiveness, we're more likely to go backward in our quest for racial harmony than forward.
There is a lot, and I mean A LOT, of anti-semitism out there and has been for centuries. Most of it is based on myths and conspiracy theories.
My great-uncle who was a partisan in Poland during the war and escaped from a death camp told me when I was a kid that there are 5 words that explain where anti-semitism comes from. You will often see me use them here in reference to racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and anti-semitism.
He told me that anti-semitism is most often learned at home and is rooted in...
No, I'm aware of the term delusional. I'm a mental health professional who regularly works with individuals with delusions and other symptoms of severe and persistent mental illness, and it's really bloody frustrating when people minimize the challenges of actual mental illness by misusing these terms in a spat with someone on the internet.
Thank you for what you do, I was in no way using the word to minimize mental illness. I did not make up the rules on what is an acceptable use of the word in our language, you can take that up with Merriam-Webster.
I didn't post because I wanted thanks, I posted because I want people to be a bit more mindful and thoughtful about how we speak about issues related to mental illness. Just because a term can be used by someone else in a way that minimizes its importance doesn't mean that it's right to do so.
And yes, I will take it up with dictionary.com as well.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
@Ledbetterman10 This is the first I've heard of the plan to have a different anthem and I agree 100%, that only enhances the divisiveness of the nation. FWIW, I agree with kneeling in protest, but to have a separate anthem is basically promoting separatism... which leads down a rather ugly road.
I agree too about the syrup thing. I heard some folks on TV say that throughout the years being called Gemima was a slur so I totally understand re branding but it is in deed a drop in the ocean. The takeaway being... at least it's something rather than nothing.
Yeah I agree. And there's been other things like this. For example, Malcom Jenkins, a football player that was critical of Drew Brees for not liking the kneeling (which is fine), said in response to Desean Jackson's anti-Semitic posts that....
"We can honor the Jewish heritage and trauma while staying focused on what matters,” Jenkins wrote in the caption of his video responding to Jackson. “Jewish people aren’t our problem, and we aren’t their problem. Let’s not lose focus on what the problem truly is, and that’s that black lives still don’t matter in this country."
Not exactly the sort of rehtoric that gets us closer to "One Nation, Under God, Indivisible." That couldn't be more divisible. The same way he wants white people like Drew Brees to care about his plight, he should care about other people's plight.
I won't even get started on Nick Cannon's comments from yesterday. But it was radically divisive as one can be. With that sort of stuff, coupled with Trump's divisiveness, we're more likely to go backward in our quest for racial harmony than forward.
There is a lot, and I mean A LOT, of anti-semitism out there and has been for centuries. Most of it is based on myths and conspiracy theories.
My great-uncle who was a partisan in Poland during the war and escaped from a death camp told me when I was a kid that there are 5 words that explain where anti-semitism comes from. You will often see me use them here in reference to racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and anti-semitism.
He told me that anti-semitism is most often learned at home and is rooted in...
Fear Hate Ignorance Jealousy Lies
It's mind-blowing how far back anti-Semitism goes, and how it's still prevalent today. That's why it's sad to see people that have prominant voices in this BLM movement being so friendly with Louis Farrakhan. Shannon Sharpe and Stephen Jackson are among them. And here's a picture from yesterday that Allen Iverson posted of him with Farrakhan. Iverson captioned it with "I didn't choose to be black, I got lucky." That's all well and good for him to be proud of his heritage. But posting that with a picture of Farrakhan can lead his fans that are unfamiilar with Farrakhahn to assume that he's nothing more than "pro-black," when, as well all know, he's anti-Jew to the core. And then those fans might begin researching Farrakhahn and possibily becoming indoctrinated with his views on Jews. .
And here's Shannon Sharpe (not making eye contact) as he tries to explain that Farrakhan isn't anti-Semite. "Not from the conversations I've had with the minister." Okay....what about his PUBLIC comments on Jews over the years?
No, I'm aware of the term delusional. I'm a mental health professional who regularly works with individuals with delusions and other symptoms of severe and persistent mental illness, and it's really bloody frustrating when people minimize the challenges of actual mental illness by misusing these terms in a spat with someone on the internet.
Thank you for what you do, I was in no way using the word to minimize mental illness. I did not make up the rules on what is an acceptable use of the word in our language, you can take that up with Merriam-Webster.
I didn't post because I wanted thanks, I posted because I want people to be a bit more mindful and thoughtful about how we speak about issues related to mental illness. Just because a term can be used by someone else in a way that minimizes its importance doesn't mean that it's right to do so.
And yes, I will take it up with dictionary.com as well.
I've never heard of the word "delusional" being a derogatory term or heard it used for mental illness.
@Ledbetterman10 This is the first I've heard of the plan to have a different anthem and I agree 100%, that only enhances the divisiveness of the nation. FWIW, I agree with kneeling in protest, but to have a separate anthem is basically promoting separatism... which leads down a rather ugly road.
I agree too about the syrup thing. I heard some folks on TV say that throughout the years being called Gemima was a slur so I totally understand re branding but it is in deed a drop in the ocean. The takeaway being... at least it's something rather than nothing.
Yeah I agree. And there's been other things like this. For example, Malcom Jenkins, a football player that was critical of Drew Brees for not liking the kneeling (which is fine), said in response to Desean Jackson's anti-Semitic posts that....
"We can honor the Jewish heritage and trauma while staying focused on what matters,” Jenkins wrote in the caption of his video responding to Jackson. “Jewish people aren’t our problem, and we aren’t their problem. Let’s not lose focus on what the problem truly is, and that’s that black lives still don’t matter in this country."
Not exactly the sort of rehtoric that gets us closer to "One Nation, Under God, Indivisible." That couldn't be more divisible. The same way he wants white people like Drew Brees to care about his plight, he should care about other people's plight.
I won't even get started on Nick Cannon's comments from yesterday. But it was radically divisive as one can be. With that sort of stuff, coupled with Trump's divisiveness, we're more likely to go backward in our quest for racial harmony than forward.
There is a lot, and I mean A LOT, of anti-semitism out there and has been for centuries. Most of it is based on myths and conspiracy theories.
My great-uncle who was a partisan in Poland during the war and escaped from a death camp told me when I was a kid that there are 5 words that explain where anti-semitism comes from. You will often see me use them here in reference to racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and anti-semitism.
He told me that anti-semitism is most often learned at home and is rooted in...
Fear Hate Ignorance Jealousy Lies
It's mind-blowing how far back anti-Semitism goes, and how it's still prevalent today. That's why it's sad to see people that have prominant voices in this BLM movement being so friendly with Louis Farrakhan. Shannon Sharpe and Stephen Jackson are among them. And here's a picture from yesterday that Allen Iverson posted of him with Farrakhan. Iverson captioned it with "I didn't choose to be black, I got lucky." That's all well and good for him to be proud of his heritage. But posting that with a picture of Farrakhan can lead his fans that are unfamiilar with Farrakhahn to assume that he's nothing more than "pro-black," when, as well all know, he's anti-Jew to the core. And then those fans might begin researching Farrakhahn and possibily becoming indoctrinated with his views on Jews. .
And here's Shannon Sharpe (not making eye contact) as he tries to explain that Farrakhan isn't anti-Semite. "Not from the conversations I've had with the minister." Okay....what about his PUBLIC comments on Jews over the years?
@Ledbetterman10 This is the first I've heard of the plan to have a different anthem and I agree 100%, that only enhances the divisiveness of the nation. FWIW, I agree with kneeling in protest, but to have a separate anthem is basically promoting separatism... which leads down a rather ugly road.
I agree too about the syrup thing. I heard some folks on TV say that throughout the years being called Gemima was a slur so I totally understand re branding but it is in deed a drop in the ocean. The takeaway being... at least it's something rather than nothing.
Yeah I agree. And there's been other things like this. For example, Malcom Jenkins, a football player that was critical of Drew Brees for not liking the kneeling (which is fine), said in response to Desean Jackson's anti-Semitic posts that....
"We can honor the Jewish heritage and trauma while staying focused on what matters,” Jenkins wrote in the caption of his video responding to Jackson. “Jewish people aren’t our problem, and we aren’t their problem. Let’s not lose focus on what the problem truly is, and that’s that black lives still don’t matter in this country."
Not exactly the sort of rehtoric that gets us closer to "One Nation, Under God, Indivisible." That couldn't be more divisible. The same way he wants white people like Drew Brees to care about his plight, he should care about other people's plight.
I won't even get started on Nick Cannon's comments from yesterday. But it was radically divisive as one can be. With that sort of stuff, coupled with Trump's divisiveness, we're more likely to go backward in our quest for racial harmony than forward.
There is a lot, and I mean A LOT, of anti-semitism out there and has been for centuries. Most of it is based on myths and conspiracy theories.
My great-uncle who was a partisan in Poland during the war and escaped from a death camp told me when I was a kid that there are 5 words that explain where anti-semitism comes from. You will often see me use them here in reference to racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and anti-semitism.
He told me that anti-semitism is most often learned at home and is rooted in...
Fear Hate Ignorance Jealousy Lies
It's mind-blowing how far back anti-Semitism goes, and how it's still prevalent today. That's why it's sad to see people that have prominant voices in this BLM movement being so friendly with Louis Farrakhan. Shannon Sharpe and Stephen Jackson are among them. And here's a picture from yesterday that Allen Iverson posted of him with Farrakhan. Iverson captioned it with "I didn't choose to be black, I got lucky." That's all well and good for him to be proud of his heritage. But posting that with a picture of Farrakhan can lead his fans that are unfamiilar with Farrakhahn to assume that he's nothing more than "pro-black," when, as well all know, he's anti-Jew to the core. And then those fans might begin researching Farrakhahn and possibily becoming indoctrinated with his views on Jews. .
And here's Shannon Sharpe (not making eye contact) as he tries to explain that Farrakhan isn't anti-Semite. "Not from the conversations I've had with the minister." Okay....what about his PUBLIC comments on Jews over the years?
Not knowing, has Farrakahn changed his tune? Does he still speak ill towards the Jews or has he come to his senses?
People can change.
He compared Jews to termites as recently as 2018. I think he's "come to his senses" to a point where he's not making outrageous public comments like he did in the 80's ("Hitler was a great man"). But I sure as hell don't think he's changed his views on Jews. He's just more careful these days.
I don't know if this fits here but I'm not sure where else to put it so...
I just finished reading Nat Hentoff very cool book, Listen to the Stories.
Besides being an excellent book all around, one of the things I really like here is that you have an east coast Jew writing about his favorite music- jazz (particular jazz made by black musicians though not exclusively) and classic country western.
In one of the stories, Merle Haggard (a jazz fan himself) tells Hentoff about the time as a teenager, Bob Wills, a white musician from Texas, rode a horse almost 50 miles to go see a black blues singer, Bessie Smith, perform her amazing music.
Hentoff also talks about how in pre- Civil Rights era times, white American jazz music impresario Norman Granz was absolutely insisted on shows he organized not be segregated. If a white person got a ticket with a seat that happened to be next to a black person and the white person didn't like that, Granz would refund the ticket and tell the white person to leave.
Another story involves the great black bebop artist Charlie Parker who would go into a bar with a jukebox, drop in his coin and punch up a country western record. Some of Parker's peers would question why he would want to listen to country. His response was, "The stories, man, the stories."
If people would just do what these great folks did, respect each others talents and insist on equality, we wouldn't be in the awful mess we're still in today.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
@Ledbetterman10 This is the first I've heard of the plan to have a different anthem and I agree 100%, that only enhances the divisiveness of the nation. FWIW, I agree with kneeling in protest, but to have a separate anthem is basically promoting separatism... which leads down a rather ugly road.
I agree too about the syrup thing. I heard some folks on TV say that throughout the years being called Gemima was a slur so I totally understand re branding but it is in deed a drop in the ocean. The takeaway being... at least it's something rather than nothing.
Yeah I agree. And there's been other things like this. For example, Malcom Jenkins, a football player that was critical of Drew Brees for not liking the kneeling (which is fine), said in response to Desean Jackson's anti-Semitic posts that....
"We can honor the Jewish heritage and trauma while staying focused on what matters,” Jenkins wrote in the caption of his video responding to Jackson. “Jewish people aren’t our problem, and we aren’t their problem. Let’s not lose focus on what the problem truly is, and that’s that black lives still don’t matter in this country."
Not exactly the sort of rehtoric that gets us closer to "One Nation, Under God, Indivisible." That couldn't be more divisible. The same way he wants white people like Drew Brees to care about his plight, he should care about other people's plight.
I won't even get started on Nick Cannon's comments from yesterday. But it was radically divisive as one can be. With that sort of stuff, coupled with Trump's divisiveness, we're more likely to go backward in our quest for racial harmony than forward.
There is a lot, and I mean A LOT, of anti-semitism out there and has been for centuries. Most of it is based on myths and conspiracy theories.
My great-uncle who was a partisan in Poland during the war and escaped from a death camp told me when I was a kid that there are 5 words that explain where anti-semitism comes from. You will often see me use them here in reference to racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and anti-semitism.
He told me that anti-semitism is most often learned at home and is rooted in...
Fear Hate Ignorance Jealousy Lies
It's mind-blowing how far back anti-Semitism goes, and how it's still prevalent today. That's why it's sad to see people that have prominant voices in this BLM movement being so friendly with Louis Farrakhan. Shannon Sharpe and Stephen Jackson are among them. And here's a picture from yesterday that Allen Iverson posted of him with Farrakhan. Iverson captioned it with "I didn't choose to be black, I got lucky." That's all well and good for him to be proud of his heritage. But posting that with a picture of Farrakhan can lead his fans that are unfamiilar with Farrakhahn to assume that he's nothing more than "pro-black," when, as well all know, he's anti-Jew to the core. And then those fans might begin researching Farrakhahn and possibily becoming indoctrinated with his views on Jews. .
And here's Shannon Sharpe (not making eye contact) as he tries to explain that Farrakhan isn't anti-Semite. "Not from the conversations I've had with the minister." Okay....what about his PUBLIC comments on Jews over the years?
Not knowing, has Farrakahn changed his tune? Does he still speak ill towards the Jews or has he come to his senses?
People can change.
He compared Jews to termites as recently as 2018. I think he's "come to his senses" to a point where he's not making outrageous public comments like he did in the 80's ("Hitler was a great man"). But I sure as hell don't think he's changed his views on Jews. He's just more careful these days.
Jews as termites? What's that metaphor about?
OK I was curious. I know he said he could see the difference between good jews and satanic jews, which I didn't think was bad. If your'e evil, you're evil, but coming from him I know it's not good.
Comments
All lives matter
Look at the looting
Black Beans Matter
Police aren't all bad
This all comes from the same place, to me.
Defend the white stronghold in America.
Those notes up there are not wrong. (Well, the Goya line is complete stupidity)
They just don't need to be a part of the discussion to try and address the issues of systemic racism in the US. To make them so is to deflect and defend.
My opinion - as a mostly white male American, whose minority status is not visible or part of my surname so not negatively impacting on my life in America.
I don't see how this is going to work.
Can't believe nobody has touched this yet?
Who knows, perhaps I am wrong.
Perhaps there should be another thread called Systemic Racism In America....but I feel strongly that these posts would find their way to that thread as well.
Do everything but address the idea that there is a sizeable percentage of people who are positioned to fail in our country of so called equality and justice for all
Many here posting from WI seem to be the people who hate equality and support division and oppression.
Strange.
Maybe I am just lucky.
MASK IT OR CASKET
How and who gets that?
If you're white and your response to "Black Lives Matter" is "All Lives Matter" then you either don't realize that such racism exists, or you yourself may be a tad bit racist. I'm not trying to piss people off, but come on... how can you say things have been fair for black people? Now your intention may be good spirited in that yes of course "All Lives Matter" but it's almost insulting to black people who may perceive that as a clear misunderstanding that black people have not had it as good as white people for many years.
Associating BLM with vandalism and looting also isn't entirely fair. Generally speaking, anything that causes people to get riled up leads to rioting/looting. See G20 protests, sporting championship celebrations, etc.
I think it should be perfectly fine to disagree with the rioting but also understanding what BLM is, why it became a thing, and why black people are distinct from other people. Any disagreement with BLM is just ignorance in my opinion. And by that I mean, you're being ignorant to many years of oppression not just through slavery hundreds of years ago, but government policy in the 20th century in particular, fear, and straight up blatant racism either from police, businesses, white supremacists, etc.
Personally I've been asking myself lately as a white guy how I might feel if I was black. Not just thinking about how my father and grandfather may have been treated when they grew up, but how I would feel knowing that I was stripped of equal opportunity by my government through segregation policies that seem to blatantly be aimed at keeping white people ahead of black people. More often than not, I come to the conclusion that I would be super pissed off.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
As for the movement, the initial concept to end police brutality and eradicate systemic racism, I'm with that too.
Everything since then, I'm pretty much against. I'm against De Blasio pandering by painting on streets. I'm against Pelosi dismissing violence and looting (calm down, it's by white people too. I'm not saying only black people were looting) when she said in response to it "people will do what they do." I'm against influential black members (Stephen Jackson, Nick Cannon, Ice Cube) of the movement excusing anti-Semitism because they agree with Farrakhan that Jews are the enemy of black people. I'm against the patronizing of black people with special national anthems and stuff like censoring Aunt Jemima (yeah, that's what they're fighting for). And most of all, I'm against people like that woman that wrote that "White Fragility" book that basically outlines how white people as a whole are awful and racist (there's people on this board that seem to feel the same way).
Some people are racist. This includes white people, black people, etc. You don't think black people are racist too? If there's two groups, one was the oppressor, the other was the oppressed, who do you think is going to hate the other more? The difference is, going back to the systemic point, is that black people's racism towards white people doesn't really affect anything other than, I guess, the social fabric. But white people's racism towards black people leads towards landlords refusing to rent to blacks, bosses refusing to hire blacks, and of course, incidents like George Floyd. That all as to go. I'm all for that, but I'm against the rest of the bullshit. So I do disagree with BLM (the movement) while I agree with BLM (the concept).
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Maybe I’m just overly cynical, but I am hesitant to buy into many “labels” or #acronyms.
A lot of good points you mentioned.. but why does censoring Aunt Jemima bother you? And what do you mean by special anthems?
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
The special anthem is that before week 1of the NFL games (if they happen), they're going to play a song that's considered the "Black National Anthem" before the real national anthem. I think that’s just patronizing to black people. Same with changing syrup names. It doesn't "bother" me, because what do I care? But I've seen black folks on twitter complaining about these sort of things....that they're getting these little "concessions" that don't even affect them, when they're looking for change in systemic issues that DO affect them. Though, I guess some can argue that changing perceived "racist" things like Aunt Jemima is at least a start.
But yeah, I shouldn't have included this because the other stuff I mentioned in that same paragraph does bother me. This anthem and syrup stuff are things that I, like many black people, simply roll my eyes at.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
This is the first I've heard of the plan to have a different anthem and I agree 100%, that only enhances the divisiveness of the nation. FWIW, I agree with kneeling in protest, but to have a separate anthem is basically promoting separatism... which leads down a rather ugly road.
I agree too about the syrup thing. I heard some folks on TV say that throughout the years being called Gemima was a slur so I totally understand re branding but it is in deed a drop in the ocean. The takeaway being... at least it's something rather than nothing.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
"We can honor the Jewish heritage and trauma while staying focused on what matters,” Jenkins wrote in the caption of his video responding to Jackson. “Jewish people aren’t our problem, and we aren’t their problem. Let’s not lose focus on what the problem truly is, and that’s that black lives still don’t matter in this country."
Not exactly the sort of rehtoric that gets us closer to "One Nation, Under God, Indivisible." That couldn't be more divisible. The same way he wants white people like Drew Brees to care about his plight, he should care about other people's plight.
I won't even get started on Nick Cannon's comments from yesterday. But it was radically divisive as one can be. With that sort of stuff, coupled with Trump's divisiveness, we're more likely to go backward in our quest for racial harmony than forward.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
If it goes well for them then great! My worry is of no matter.
Most of it is based on myths and conspiracy theories.
My great-uncle who was a partisan in Poland during the war and escaped from a death camp told me when I was a kid that there are 5 words that explain where anti-semitism comes from. You will often see me use them here in reference to racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and anti-semitism.
He told me that anti-semitism is most often learned at home and is rooted in...
Fear
Hate
Ignorance
Jealousy
Lies
I didn't post because I wanted thanks, I posted because I want people to be a bit more mindful and thoughtful about how we speak about issues related to mental illness. Just because a term can be used by someone else in a way that minimizes its importance doesn't mean that it's right to do so.
And yes, I will take it up with dictionary.com as well.
And here's Shannon Sharpe (not making eye contact) as he tries to explain that Farrakhan isn't anti-Semite.
"Not from the conversations I've had with the minister." Okay....what about his PUBLIC comments on Jews over the years?
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Interesting.
People can change.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
OK I was curious. I know he said he could see the difference between good jews and satanic jews, which I didn't think was bad. If your'e evil, you're evil, but coming from him I know it's not good.