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White Privilege

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,883
    So I think I was muted today?  An artist I enjoy had posted on Facebook another post which slammed Kenny Wayne Shepherd for buying a Dukes Of Hazzard replica General Lee (taking especial umbrage with his purchase because he's a blues musician).  In her preamble to the repost, she claimed that racism isn't anyone's problem (ie. no one's racist except) white people.  I commented that my experience is that whites are hardly the only racists, with some of the worst racist comments I've heard coming from non-whites (which I've at times, but not every time spoken up against).  Very shortly after I found I was no longer following this singer and my comment was deleted (I did refollow her and it's stayed so far).

    Subsequently I saw that in her previous post she clearly said she was only going to have these discussions in "safe spaces" with like-minded individuals, which, had I read that prior to my own comment I might have refrained.  Unfortunately when I tried sending a private message to apologize I found I couldn't for whatever reason (as a celebrity I wouldn't blame her for turning off PMs).

    While I will continue to enjoy her music I still believe the only way we'll make meaningful progress is if EVERYONE is given an equal voice at the table and a fulsome examination of all aspects of the issues is done.  Which is not what happened here I feel.

    Or is all this my white privilege at play and I need to just shut up, continue to listen to the victims and endure the constant barrage of accusations of being racist simply because I'm white?

    As I closed my FB comment, I do want to be clear that I am not trying to downplay or belittle anyone else's lived experiences, I'm always willing to learn, but can only truly speak from my own lived perspective.

    Edit:  Being on my laptop instead of my phone I seem to have been able to send an apology.
    I'm on the fence about these "safe spaces" and "discussions only with like minded individuals". that's not a healthy way of learning and growing. Even as far as no longer having your ear to the ground, per say. How will this person know what's going on in the world if they put themselves in a box?

    I have tended to gravitate away from socializing with people who are politically antagonistic, but I have no issue with real discussion and disagreements as long as it doesn't turn into a passive aggressive "gotcha" pissing contest. 

    I don't fall for gaslighting anymore, now that I know the signs. 

    I do understand, however, that there would be a certain point for some people to stop having to constantly explain their position, but isn't that how it has to be for every social revolution? Repeating the same message over and over and having the same conversations with different people to spread the word? I mean, I'm not the type to just roll over and accept whatever someone says just because they say it without some type of explanation/context. 

    Just yelling at someone to do their own research or "if you don't know by now, you're part of the problem" isn't productive, no matter how frustrated you are, and won't bring people to the table. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 5,790
    So I think I was muted today?  An artist I enjoy had posted on Facebook another post which slammed Kenny Wayne Shepherd for buying a Dukes Of Hazzard replica General Lee (taking especial umbrage with his purchase because he's a blues musician).  In her preamble to the repost, she claimed that racism isn't anyone's problem (ie. no one's racist except) white people.  I commented that my experience is that whites are hardly the only racists, with some of the worst racist comments I've heard coming from non-whites (which I've at times, but not every time spoken up against).  Very shortly after I found I was no longer following this singer and my comment was deleted (I did refollow her and it's stayed so far).

    Subsequently I saw that in her previous post she clearly said she was only going to have these discussions in "safe spaces" with like-minded individuals, which, had I read that prior to my own comment I might have refrained.  Unfortunately when I tried sending a private message to apologize I found I couldn't for whatever reason (as a celebrity I wouldn't blame her for turning off PMs).

    While I will continue to enjoy her music I still believe the only way we'll make meaningful progress is if EVERYONE is given an equal voice at the table and a fulsome examination of all aspects of the issues is done.  Which is not what happened here I feel.

    Or is all this my white privilege at play and I need to just shut up, continue to listen to the victims and endure the constant barrage of accusations of being racist simply because I'm white?

    As I closed my FB comment, I do want to be clear that I am not trying to downplay or belittle anyone else's lived experiences, I'm always willing to learn, but can only truly speak from my own lived perspective.

    Edit:  Being on my laptop instead of my phone I seem to have been able to send an apology.
    I'm on the fence about these "safe spaces" and "discussions only with like minded individuals". that's not a healthy way of learning and growing. Even as far as no longer having your ear to the ground, per say. How will this person know what's going on in the world if they put themselves in a box?

    I have tended to gravitate away from socializing with people who are politically antagonistic, but I have no issue with real discussion and disagreements as long as it doesn't turn into a passive aggressive "gotcha" pissing contest. 

    I don't fall for gaslighting anymore, now that I know the signs. 

    I do understand, however, that there would be a certain point for some people to stop having to constantly explain their position, but isn't that how it has to be for every social revolution? Repeating the same message over and over and having the same conversations with different people to spread the word? I mean, I'm not the type to just roll over and accept whatever someone says just because they say it without some type of explanation/context. 

    Just yelling at someone to do their own research or "if you don't know by now, you're part of the problem" isn't productive, no matter how frustrated you are, and won't bring people to the table. 

    Well said, Hugh. 

  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,568
    So I think I was muted today?  An artist I enjoy had posted on Facebook another post which slammed Kenny Wayne Shepherd for buying a Dukes Of Hazzard replica General Lee (taking especial umbrage with his purchase because he's a blues musician).  In her preamble to the repost, she claimed that racism isn't anyone's problem (ie. no one's racist except) white people.  I commented that my experience is that whites are hardly the only racists, with some of the worst racist comments I've heard coming from non-whites (which I've at times, but not every time spoken up against).  Very shortly after I found I was no longer following this singer and my comment was deleted (I did refollow her and it's stayed so far).

    Subsequently I saw that in her previous post she clearly said she was only going to have these discussions in "safe spaces" with like-minded individuals, which, had I read that prior to my own comment I might have refrained.  Unfortunately when I tried sending a private message to apologize I found I couldn't for whatever reason (as a celebrity I wouldn't blame her for turning off PMs).

    While I will continue to enjoy her music I still believe the only way we'll make meaningful progress is if EVERYONE is given an equal voice at the table and a fulsome examination of all aspects of the issues is done.  Which is not what happened here I feel.

    Or is all this my white privilege at play and I need to just shut up, continue to listen to the victims and endure the constant barrage of accusations of being racist simply because I'm white?

    As I closed my FB comment, I do want to be clear that I am not trying to downplay or belittle anyone else's lived experiences, I'm always willing to learn, but can only truly speak from my own lived perspective.

    Edit:  Being on my laptop instead of my phone I seem to have been able to send an apology.
    I'm on the fence about these "safe spaces" and "discussions only with like minded individuals". that's not a healthy way of learning and growing. Even as far as no longer having your ear to the ground, per say. How will this person know what's going on in the world if they put themselves in a box?

    I have tended to gravitate away from socializing with people who are politically antagonistic, but I have no issue with real discussion and disagreements as long as it doesn't turn into a passive aggressive "gotcha" pissing contest. 

    I don't fall for gaslighting anymore, now that I know the signs. 

    I do understand, however, that there would be a certain point for some people to stop having to constantly explain their position, but isn't that how it has to be for every social revolution? Repeating the same message over and over and having the same conversations with different people to spread the word? I mean, I'm not the type to just roll over and accept whatever someone says just because they say it without some type of explanation/context. 

    Just yelling at someone to do their own research or "if you don't know by now, you're part of the problem" isn't productive, no matter how frustrated you are, and won't bring people to the table. 
    Thanks for your reply, completely agree with Merkin Baller that it’s really well put.

     I do want to emphasize that I want to help and not become/be part of the problem but at the same time I won’t (can’t?) just be a blind yes-man (on any issue, ask my friends, it’s led to misunderstandings/conflicts in the past).

     I also continue to count myself very fortunate that I was raised in a house where colour was never an issue and if any of us made any inappropriate comments my parents took the time to explain why we were wrong. All that said it doesn’t mean I don’t have learning to still do and do make an effort on that.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,883
    So I think I was muted today?  An artist I enjoy had posted on Facebook another post which slammed Kenny Wayne Shepherd for buying a Dukes Of Hazzard replica General Lee (taking especial umbrage with his purchase because he's a blues musician).  In her preamble to the repost, she claimed that racism isn't anyone's problem (ie. no one's racist except) white people.  I commented that my experience is that whites are hardly the only racists, with some of the worst racist comments I've heard coming from non-whites (which I've at times, but not every time spoken up against).  Very shortly after I found I was no longer following this singer and my comment was deleted (I did refollow her and it's stayed so far).

    Subsequently I saw that in her previous post she clearly said she was only going to have these discussions in "safe spaces" with like-minded individuals, which, had I read that prior to my own comment I might have refrained.  Unfortunately when I tried sending a private message to apologize I found I couldn't for whatever reason (as a celebrity I wouldn't blame her for turning off PMs).

    While I will continue to enjoy her music I still believe the only way we'll make meaningful progress is if EVERYONE is given an equal voice at the table and a fulsome examination of all aspects of the issues is done.  Which is not what happened here I feel.

    Or is all this my white privilege at play and I need to just shut up, continue to listen to the victims and endure the constant barrage of accusations of being racist simply because I'm white?

    As I closed my FB comment, I do want to be clear that I am not trying to downplay or belittle anyone else's lived experiences, I'm always willing to learn, but can only truly speak from my own lived perspective.

    Edit:  Being on my laptop instead of my phone I seem to have been able to send an apology.
    I'm on the fence about these "safe spaces" and "discussions only with like minded individuals". that's not a healthy way of learning and growing. Even as far as no longer having your ear to the ground, per say. How will this person know what's going on in the world if they put themselves in a box?

    I have tended to gravitate away from socializing with people who are politically antagonistic, but I have no issue with real discussion and disagreements as long as it doesn't turn into a passive aggressive "gotcha" pissing contest. 

    I don't fall for gaslighting anymore, now that I know the signs. 

    I do understand, however, that there would be a certain point for some people to stop having to constantly explain their position, but isn't that how it has to be for every social revolution? Repeating the same message over and over and having the same conversations with different people to spread the word? I mean, I'm not the type to just roll over and accept whatever someone says just because they say it without some type of explanation/context. 

    Just yelling at someone to do their own research or "if you don't know by now, you're part of the problem" isn't productive, no matter how frustrated you are, and won't bring people to the table. 
    Thanks for your reply, completely agree with Merkin Baller that it’s really well put.

     I do want to emphasize that I want to help and not become/be part of the problem but at the same time I won’t (can’t?) just be a blind yes-man (on any issue, ask my friends, it’s led to misunderstandings/conflicts in the past).

     I also continue to count myself very fortunate that I was raised in a house where colour was never an issue and if any of us made any inappropriate comments my parents took the time to explain why we were wrong. All that said it doesn’t mean I don’t have learning to still do and do make an effort on that.
    it's funny (not funny) that in my house it's been the reverse; my parents aren't overtly racist; they do say things about a certain oppressed segment of our population that I won't repeat here, and I'm always the first one to speak up against that type of speech. My siblings don't really say anything; not sure if they just know I will or they are indifferent, not sure. 

    I read recently a quote that said "white people: we don't want you to be our voice for justice, we want you to just amplify ours", which makes perfect sense. I can't possibly have a freaking clue what they are and have gone through, so I can't speak for them in any meaningful way other than to just shut down racist speech when I hear it. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,568
    Follow up information (maybe this should be in the cancelled thread). The award in question was withdrawn, sounds like they didn’t actually investigate however, unless Shepherd is flat out lying.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kenny-wayne-shepherd-blues-music-awards-nomination-rescinded-1144236/
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 28,359
    Is not having a clue.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,973
    applies to privilege too....

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • static111static111 Posts: 2,547
    mickeyrat said:
    applies to privilege too....

    Agreed.  
  • cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 455
    So I think I was muted today?  An artist I enjoy had posted on Facebook another post which slammed Kenny Wayne Shepherd for buying a Dukes Of Hazzard replica General Lee (taking especial umbrage with his purchase because he's a blues musician).  In her preamble to the repost, she claimed that racism isn't anyone's problem (ie. no one's racist except) white people.  I commented that my experience is that whites are hardly the only racists, with some of the worst racist comments I've heard coming from non-whites (which I've at times, but not every time spoken up against).  Very shortly after I found I was no longer following this singer and my comment was deleted (I did refollow her and it's stayed so far).

    Subsequently I saw that in her previous post she clearly said she was only going to have these discussions in "safe spaces" with like-minded individuals, which, had I read that prior to my own comment I might have refrained.  Unfortunately when I tried sending a private message to apologize I found I couldn't for whatever reason (as a celebrity I wouldn't blame her for turning off PMs).

    While I will continue to enjoy her music I still believe the only way we'll make meaningful progress is if EVERYONE is given an equal voice at the table and a fulsome examination of all aspects of the issues is done.  Which is not what happened here I feel.

    Or is all this my white privilege at play and I need to just shut up, continue to listen to the victims and endure the constant barrage of accusations of being racist simply because I'm white?

    As I closed my FB comment, I do want to be clear that I am not trying to downplay or belittle anyone else's lived experiences, I'm always willing to learn, but can only truly speak from my own lived perspective.

    Edit:  Being on my laptop instead of my phone I seem to have been able to send an apology.
    I'm on the fence about these "safe spaces" and "discussions only with like minded individuals". that's not a healthy way of learning and growing. Even as far as no longer having your ear to the ground, per say. How will this person know what's going on in the world if they put themselves in a box?

    I have tended to gravitate away from socializing with people who are politically antagonistic, but I have no issue with real discussion and disagreements as long as it doesn't turn into a passive aggressive "gotcha" pissing contest. 

    I don't fall for gaslighting anymore, now that I know the signs. 

    I do understand, however, that there would be a certain point for some people to stop having to constantly explain their position, but isn't that how it has to be for every social revolution? Repeating the same message over and over and having the same conversations with different people to spread the word? I mean, I'm not the type to just roll over and accept whatever someone says just because they say it without some type of explanation/context. 

    Just yelling at someone to do their own research or "if you don't know by now, you're part of the problem" isn't productive, no matter how frustrated you are, and won't bring people to the table. 
    Thanks for your reply, completely agree with Merkin Baller that it’s really well put.

     I do want to emphasize that I want to help and not become/be part of the problem but at the same time I won’t (can’t?) just be a blind yes-man (on any issue, ask my friends, it’s led to misunderstandings/conflicts in the past).

     I also continue to count myself very fortunate that I was raised in a house where colour was never an issue and if any of us made any inappropriate comments my parents took the time to explain why we were wrong. All that said it doesn’t mean I don’t have learning to still do and do make an effort on that.
    To safe spaces etc, even Jesus preached then moved on.  I guess it’s better to use that posting energy on something else if you can never agree on anything.
    ive posted before that my family grew up not seeing the color of your skin, the dirt on your clothes or the amount of $ in your pocket so in that sense we were fortunate. Unfortunately my father was a sex addict so hey take the good with the bad right? 
    I posed a question to people as to besides the color of another’s skin, what makes you hate a perfect stranger when you first meet them.  Only one person said they had been assaulted by a group of black men, but realized he shouldn’t blame a whole race for one incident.
    People refuse to be honest about their hatred due to stupid reasons or no reason at all so sadly this will never change.  
  • cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 455
    And what’s even funnier about all this is we are the least dominant human race on the planet!! Seriously, who the fuck do white people think they/we are? 
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 23,450
    Can’t I just be a woman anymore? Simply be a decent human being, and let it go at that?

    Wishful thinking? Yup. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,973
    wondered where to put this.
    Hulu to produce, release '1619 Project' documentary series
    By The Associated Press
    Yesterday

    NEW YORK (AP) — Hulu will produce a documentary series based on “ The 1619 Project,” stories in The New York Times that examined the legacy of slavery in America dating from the arrival of the first slave ship from Africa.

    Roger Ross Williams, an Academy Award-winning director for his film “Music by Prudence,” will oversee and produce the series, it was announced Thursday.

    The announcement was an outgrowth of a deal announced last summer by the Times, Lionsgate and Oprah Winfrey to develop “The 1619 Project” into a portfolio of films, television series and other content. They will also be producers, along with Williams' business partner, Geoff Martz.

    The Pulitzer Prize-winning newspaper series, from writer Nikole Hannah-Jones, began appearing on the 400th anniversary of ship's arrival in the then-British colony of Virginia.

    “‘The 1619 Project’ is an essential reframing of American history." Williams said. “Our most cherished ideals and achievements cannot be understood without acknowledging both systemic racism and the contributions of Black Americans. And this isn’t just about the past — Black people are still fighting against both the legacy of this racism and its current incarnation.”

    The streaming service gave no indication of when the documentary series will appear.



    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 5,790
    mickeyrat said:
    wondered where to put this.
    Hulu to produce, release '1619 Project' documentary series
    By The Associated Press
    Yesterday

    NEW YORK (AP) — Hulu will produce a documentary series based on “ The 1619 Project,” stories in The New York Times that examined the legacy of slavery in America dating from the arrival of the first slave ship from Africa.

    Roger Ross Williams, an Academy Award-winning director for his film “Music by Prudence,” will oversee and produce the series, it was announced Thursday.

    The announcement was an outgrowth of a deal announced last summer by the Times, Lionsgate and Oprah Winfrey to develop “The 1619 Project” into a portfolio of films, television series and other content. They will also be producers, along with Williams' business partner, Geoff Martz.

    The Pulitzer Prize-winning newspaper series, from writer Nikole Hannah-Jones, began appearing on the 400th anniversary of ship's arrival in the then-British colony of Virginia.

    “‘The 1619 Project’ is an essential reframing of American history." Williams said. “Our most cherished ideals and achievements cannot be understood without acknowledging both systemic racism and the contributions of Black Americans. And this isn’t just about the past — Black people are still fighting against both the legacy of this racism and its current incarnation.”

    The streaming service gave no indication of when the documentary series will appear.



    One more thing for conservatives to be outraged about. 

  • HobbesHobbes Pacific NorthwestPosts: 5,005
    mickeyrat said:
    wondered where to put this.
    Hulu to produce, release '1619 Project' documentary series
    By The Associated Press
    Yesterday

    NEW YORK (AP) — Hulu will produce a documentary series based on “ The 1619 Project,” stories in The New York Times that examined the legacy of slavery in America dating from the arrival of the first slave ship from Africa.

    Roger Ross Williams, an Academy Award-winning director for his film “Music by Prudence,” will oversee and produce the series, it was announced Thursday.

    The announcement was an outgrowth of a deal announced last summer by the Times, Lionsgate and Oprah Winfrey to develop “The 1619 Project” into a portfolio of films, television series and other content. They will also be producers, along with Williams' business partner, Geoff Martz.

    The Pulitzer Prize-winning newspaper series, from writer Nikole Hannah-Jones, began appearing on the 400th anniversary of ship's arrival in the then-British colony of Virginia.

    “‘The 1619 Project’ is an essential reframing of American history." Williams said. “Our most cherished ideals and achievements cannot be understood without acknowledging both systemic racism and the contributions of Black Americans. And this isn’t just about the past — Black people are still fighting against both the legacy of this racism and its current incarnation.”

    The streaming service gave no indication of when the documentary series will appear.



    One more thing for conservatives to be outraged about. 
    Hulu sounded a little too ethnic anyway. #BoycottHulu #CancelHulu
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 21,973
    hmmm......


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • HobbesHobbes Pacific NorthwestPosts: 5,005
    See "Police abuse" thread.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,975

  • 1ThoughtKnown1ThoughtKnown Calgary ABPosts: 3,666
    White privilege perfectly explained in this reaction video of W.M.A. This lovely young couple have reacted to a lot of PJ songs. Really like the discussions they have after each song, particularly this one. 

    I apologize if this was posted previously. 
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