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Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,027
    Biden
    pjl44 said:
    Aggressively polarized electorate + Unfamiliar voting process + General lack of competence at state and local election boards = Hold on to your hats
    my county board is on the ball
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    pjl44pjl44 Posts: 8,217
    I'm sitting this one out
    mickeyrat said:
    pjl44 said:
    Aggressively polarized electorate + Unfamiliar voting process + General lack of competence at state and local election boards = Hold on to your hats
    my county board is on the ball
    There are good ones, for sure. I've done election reporting twice in the past 4 years and will again this fall. It is all over the board. Most are fairly competent, but there is more incompetence than you would expect. Enough that I worry people will mistake incompetence for malice.
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,720
    Biden
    pjl44 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    pjl44 said:
    Aggressively polarized electorate + Unfamiliar voting process + General lack of competence at state and local election boards = Hold on to your hats
    my county board is on the ball
    There are good ones, for sure. I've done election reporting twice in the past 4 years and will again this fall. It is all over the board. Most are fairly competent, but there is more incompetence than you would expect. Enough that I worry people will mistake incompetence for malice.
    Or, as always, use one instance as representative of all.
  • Options
    pjl44pjl44 Posts: 8,217
    I'm sitting this one out
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    pjl44 said:
    Aggressively polarized electorate + Unfamiliar voting process + General lack of competence at state and local election boards = Hold on to your hats
    my county board is on the ball
    There are good ones, for sure. I've done election reporting twice in the past 4 years and will again this fall. It is all over the board. Most are fairly competent, but there is more incompetence than you would expect. Enough that I worry people will mistake incompetence for malice.
    Or, as always, use one instance as representative of all.
    When I'm reporting, I'm on a Discord channel hearing about multiple counties and multiple states. When I leave the site I worked and get home, I scrape websites and/or call municipalities who haven't reported yet. It's not one instance. 
  • Options
    pjl44pjl44 Posts: 8,217
    I'm sitting this one out
    If you have an interest in this stuff, these companies are always looking for election night staff. Decision Desk HQ and Edison, specifically. I don’t know if AP does seasonal hiring. It's illuminating to see how the sausage is made. 
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,720
    Biden
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    pjl44 said:
    Aggressively polarized electorate + Unfamiliar voting process + General lack of competence at state and local election boards = Hold on to your hats
    my county board is on the ball
    There are good ones, for sure. I've done election reporting twice in the past 4 years and will again this fall. It is all over the board. Most are fairly competent, but there is more incompetence than you would expect. Enough that I worry people will mistake incompetence for malice.
    Or, as always, use one instance as representative of all.
    When I'm reporting, I'm on a Discord channel hearing about multiple counties and multiple states. When I leave the site I worked and get home, I scrape websites and/or call municipalities who haven't reported yet. It's not one instance. 
    I'm saying people or the media will have one story and apply it to the whole.  Not talking about you specifically.
  • Options
    pjl44pjl44 Posts: 8,217
    I'm sitting this one out
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    pjl44 said:
    Aggressively polarized electorate + Unfamiliar voting process + General lack of competence at state and local election boards = Hold on to your hats
    my county board is on the ball
    There are good ones, for sure. I've done election reporting twice in the past 4 years and will again this fall. It is all over the board. Most are fairly competent, but there is more incompetence than you would expect. Enough that I worry people will mistake incompetence for malice.
    Or, as always, use one instance as representative of all.
    When I'm reporting, I'm on a Discord channel hearing about multiple counties and multiple states. When I leave the site I worked and get home, I scrape websites and/or call municipalities who haven't reported yet. It's not one instance. 
    I'm saying people or the media will have one story and apply it to the whole.  Not talking about you specifically.
    Ahhhhhhh...gotcha. My bad if I took that wrong. Yes, there will be all sorts of one-off examples of craziness and it's important to keep them in context.
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,720
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    Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,753
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    Well it takes a special idiot for this Texas prediction to even be feasible, and Trump is that special idiot. For all his bragging about his approval rating within the GOP, it'd be a hilarious rebuke of him by Republicans if (when!) he loses Texas. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
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    VitalogensiaVitalogensia Posts: 1,935
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    Haha, living in Charlottesville I use and hear the "Larry Sabato of X" lots.  Good and surprising news about Texas.
    Virginia Beach 2000; Pittsburgh 2000; Columbus 2003; D.C. 2003; Pittsburgh 2006; Virginia Beach 2008; Cleveland 2010; PJ20 2011; Pittsburgh 2013; Baltimore 2013; Charlottesville 2013; Charlotte 2013; Lincoln 2014; Moline 2014; St. Paul 2014; Greenville 2016; Hampton 2016; Lexington 2016; Wrigley 2016; Prague 2018; Krakow 2018; Berlin 2018; Fenway 2018; Camden 2022; St. Paul 2023
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,720
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    Haha, living in Charlottesville I use and hear the "Larry Sabato of X" lots.  Good and surprising news about Texas.
    Larry is a popular guy around those parts.  I love C'ville and love UVA.  Great place. 
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,022
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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    pjl44pjl44 Posts: 8,217
    I'm sitting this one out
    Rick Wilson from the Lincoln Project was on Stephen Colbert's Tooning Out The News. Great interview!

    https://youtu.be/tNvuYPpX0C0

    And if I'm saying it's good, you know it's good.


  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,027
    Biden
    KANYE OUT!!!!!
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,720
    Biden
    mickeyrat said:
    KANYE OUT!!!!!
    Ha!  
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    oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,844
    mickeyrat said:
    KANYE OUT!!!!!
    I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Options
    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,027
    Biden
    And a new song dedicated to his mom just dropped....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,717
    mickeyrat said:
    And a new song dedicated to his mom just dropped....
    Is it called Kimmy?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,717
    Team Trump Treason should definitely be re-elected. Honester than Abe.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/14/politics/fact-check-trump-biden-speech-rose-garden/index.html
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Biden
    Kanye had a good run, and his contribution will have a lasting impact in shaping policy for the next 20 years. He's a national treasure.
    :lol:
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
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    darwinstheorydarwinstheory LaPorte, IN Posts: 5,895
    Biden
    jeffbr said:
    Kanye had a good run, and his contribution will have a lasting impact in shaping policy for the next 20 years. He's a national treasure.
    :lol:

    In fairness, he has done more political good during his presidental run than trump has done in the last 6 months.
    "A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
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    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,137
    Biden
    jeffbr said:
    Kanye had a good run, and his contribution will have a lasting impact in shaping policy for the next 20 years. He's a national treasure.
    :lol:

    In fairness, he has done more political good during his presidental run than trump has done in the last 6 months.
    Nope.  He didn't do any good.  But he did do less harm ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,364
    edited July 2020
    Biden
    New Q poll has Biden up 15 points

    Good god. I was gonna post earlier that his lead was starting to narrow just a bit too. This and some others today put a stop to that...
    Post edited by The Juggler on
    chinese-happy.jpg
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,717
    New Q poll has Biden up 15 points

    Good god. I was gonna post earlier that his lead was starting to narrow just a bit too. This and some others today put a stop to that...
    QAnon conducts polls?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,364
    Biden
    Biden is now polling better on the economy too....
    chinese-happy.jpg
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    darwinstheorydarwinstheory LaPorte, IN Posts: 5,895
    Biden
    jeffbr said:
    Kanye had a good run, and his contribution will have a lasting impact in shaping policy for the next 20 years. He's a national treasure.
    :lol:

    In fairness, he has done more political good during his presidental run than trump has done in the last 6 months.
    Nope.  He didn't do any good.  But he did do less harm ;)
    I'll accept that.
    "A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,720
    Biden
    Biden is now polling better on the economy too....
    We haven't really discussed Bidens economic plan he released last week. It's fundamentally... Buy American, but don't be a dick about it.  

    He would direct the govt to buy American first,  without interfering in private business nor raising tariffs. 
  • Options
    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,364
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    Biden is now polling better on the economy too....
    We haven't really discussed Bidens economic plan he released last week. It's fundamentally... Buy American, but don't be a dick about it.  

    He would direct the govt to buy American first,  without interfering in private business nor raising tariffs. 
    I liked his quote about climate change. Something to the effect of "When Trump thinks of Climate change he thinks of the word hoax.; When I think of climate change, I think of jobs."

    HRC made a blunder about how coal is dead and never coming back 4 years ago. That's basically true but the way she said it turned a lot of working class people. This messaging is so much better. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,717
    mrussel1 said:
    Biden is now polling better on the economy too....
    We haven't really discussed Bidens economic plan he released last week. It's fundamentally... Buy American, but don't be a dick about it.  

    He would direct the govt to buy American first,  without interfering in private business nor raising tariffs. 
    I liked his quote about climate change. Something to the effect of "When Trump thinks of Climate change he thinks of the word hoax.; When I think of climate change, I think of jobs."

    HRC made a blunder about how coal is dead and never coming back 4 years ago. That's basically true but the way she said it turned a lot of working class people. This messaging is so much better. 
    Act like Biden is 3 points down? Hell, act like he's 13 points down.

    There are two ways to read both the state and national polling that shows President Trump significantly behind former vice president Joe Biden. You can plausibly argue that the polls are more unreliable on a statewide basis than in 2016, so they’re all irrelevant. Alternatively, you can take the polls at face value and conclude we are heading for a blowout election. There is a case for each.

    Recall in 2016 that the national polls were quite accurate (Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by more than two points), while the state polls, albeit some within the margin of error, gave the impression of a narrow but definitive Clinton win. There was much talk about a quiet base of Trump voters embarrassed to say they support him, but in fact, 80,000 votes going the other way would have made Clinton president. (I know. Don’t dwell.) This time around, there is reason to believe we will have all mail-in or heavily mail-in voting in many states. The access to those ballots and the propensity of various groups to use them might be different. In other words, defining “likely” voters is trickier than you think.

    Moreover, the “Who knows?” interpretation of polls posits that lots can happen in four months, so Trump’s chances might improve. (That last part is beginning to fail the straight-face test, as Trump’s performance continues to deteriorate daily and the pandemic worsens.)

    The alternative theory goes like this: Even if the polls are off, they cannot be that far off. Biden is winning nationally by an average of nearly 9 points (just today Economist-YouGov, a respected, nonpartisan poll, gives him a 9-point lead, and Quinnipiac shows him with a stunning 15-point lead). The big deficit for Trump tracks with his approval rating (one of the best indicators of an incumbent’s election percentage), which has dropped below 40 in several recent polls. Biden is also crushing it in swing states such as Pennsylvania (leading by an eye-popping 13 points in Monmouth’s most recent poll) and is competitive or slightly ahead in states no Democrat has thought competitive in the past decade or so (e.g., Arizona and Texas). Finally, polling for Senate seats shows a tilt toward Democrats even in red states (e.g., Montana and Arizona), giving support to the “blue tsunami” interpretation of the race.

    Many Democratic operatives believe the second theory is right but are frankly spooked by 2016 and afraid to say it out loud. Campaigning 101 also says that you should tell your staff, donors and voters to think you are three points behind. The trauma of 2016 and fear of overconfidence have not dissipated. On the other side, Republicans face their own dilemma. At some point, they will have to decide whether they want to effectively give up on Trump. (Labor Day might be too late given the plethora of early voting, which starts, for example, on Sept. 19 in Michigan.) Donors will decide whether to throw money into a hopeless campaign; candidates for Senate and House will begin the ads arguing to not give Biden a “blank check.”

    The safest answer would be something like this: If the election were held today, it would be a big win for Biden, and while Trump is unlikely to undergo a believable personality transformation and the coronavirus pandemic might possibly — if we are fortunate — be less terrible than now, it is also possible Trump has not hit rock bottom yet. In other words, act like Biden is three points down.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/15/how-read-bidens-massive-lead-polls/?hpid=hp_save-opinions-float-right-4-0_opinion-card-d-right:homepage/story-ans
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    Biden is now polling better on the economy too....
    We haven't really discussed Bidens economic plan he released last week. It's fundamentally... Buy American, but don't be a dick about it.  

    He would direct the govt to buy American first,  without interfering in private business nor raising tariffs. 
    I liked his quote about climate change. Something to the effect of "When Trump thinks of Climate change he thinks of the word hoax.; When I think of climate change, I think of jobs."

    HRC made a blunder about how coal is dead and never coming back 4 years ago. That's basically true but the way she said it turned a lot of working class people. This messaging is so much better. 
    Act like Biden is 3 points down? Hell, act like he's 13 points down.

    There are two ways to read both the state and national polling that shows President Trump significantly behind former vice president Joe Biden. You can plausibly argue that the polls are more unreliable on a statewide basis than in 2016, so they’re all irrelevant. Alternatively, you can take the polls at face value and conclude we are heading for a blowout election. There is a case for each.

    Recall in 2016 that the national polls were quite accurate (Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by more than two points), while the state polls, albeit some within the margin of error, gave the impression of a narrow but definitive Clinton win. There was much talk about a quiet base of Trump voters embarrassed to say they support him, but in fact, 80,000 votes going the other way would have made Clinton president. (I know. Don’t dwell.) This time around, there is reason to believe we will have all mail-in or heavily mail-in voting in many states. The access to those ballots and the propensity of various groups to use them might be different. In other words, defining “likely” voters is trickier than you think.

    Moreover, the “Who knows?” interpretation of polls posits that lots can happen in four months, so Trump’s chances might improve. (That last part is beginning to fail the straight-face test, as Trump’s performance continues to deteriorate daily and the pandemic worsens.)

    The alternative theory goes like this: Even if the polls are off, they cannot be that far off. Biden is winning nationally by an average of nearly 9 points (just today Economist-YouGov, a respected, nonpartisan poll, gives him a 9-point lead, and Quinnipiac shows him with a stunning 15-point lead). The big deficit for Trump tracks with his approval rating (one of the best indicators of an incumbent’s election percentage), which has dropped below 40 in several recent polls. Biden is also crushing it in swing states such as Pennsylvania (leading by an eye-popping 13 points in Monmouth’s most recent poll) and is competitive or slightly ahead in states no Democrat has thought competitive in the past decade or so (e.g., Arizona and Texas). Finally, polling for Senate seats shows a tilt toward Democrats even in red states (e.g., Montana and Arizona), giving support to the “blue tsunami” interpretation of the race.

    Many Democratic operatives believe the second theory is right but are frankly spooked by 2016 and afraid to say it out loud. Campaigning 101 also says that you should tell your staff, donors and voters to think you are three points behind. The trauma of 2016 and fear of overconfidence have not dissipated. On the other side, Republicans face their own dilemma. At some point, they will have to decide whether they want to effectively give up on Trump. (Labor Day might be too late given the plethora of early voting, which starts, for example, on Sept. 19 in Michigan.) Donors will decide whether to throw money into a hopeless campaign; candidates for Senate and House will begin the ads arguing to not give Biden a “blank check.”

    The safest answer would be something like this: If the election were held today, it would be a big win for Biden, and while Trump is unlikely to undergo a believable personality transformation and the coronavirus pandemic might possibly — if we are fortunate — be less terrible than now, it is also possible Trump has not hit rock bottom yet. In other words, act like Biden is three points down.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/15/how-read-bidens-massive-lead-polls/?hpid=hp_save-opinions-float-right-4-0_opinion-card-d-right:homepage/story-ans
    I agree let’s not accept that it is a done deal
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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