Biden’s age and condition has me worried. I mean he looks out of it. just a bad idea to have such an old man at the top of the ticket. I mean you know only the possible future of the country and the world is at stake with this election so it’s not like it’s important or anything. Heck if he makes it to November and wins there is just very little chance he will be cognizant for four years either. I can’t believe the dems might blow another election
He's fine...tRump looks horrible. He's loud so he comes across as more "fit" but he's a walking heart attack.
don't get me wrong I'm voting for Biden or anyone who is on that line, but i don't think if you look at it honestly that Biden looks good. It's pretty clear he is losing his faculties.
People carry on like there isn't 30+ years of video clips where you can notice a difference. It's emperor's-new-clothes level shit. It makes sense to me that people would vote for him regardless, but let's talk about this stuff like reasonable adults.
It’s better to just attack people’s opinions when they are critical of joe, because this election is a referendum on trump and Biden has the victory in hand.
It's absurdly hilarious to watch. Declaring that you're voting for Biden isn't enough. If you express even the slightest reservation, you still get attacked.
Attacked? Countering your argument is commensurate with being attacked? I think you misunderstand, or just willfully ignore the points that people are making. The criticisms of Joe are small and petty and many of us here don't have interest in seeing them breathe. If you want to post your 'slightest reservation' (which is kind of funny since you said you're not voting for Biden, yet speaking for those that are), don't expect many of us not to counter those with our arguments. Your sensibilities aren't really a concern when the commander in chief is tweeting conspiracy theories and threatening to shut down or regulate the speech of private companies.
Threatening to shut down or regulate the speech of private companies is a concern, eh? It's something that Trump and Biden are both interested in.
Well as soon as Trump discusses it as a modification of section 230, then maybe I'll agree with you. Trump is pissed because that put a fact check on him, that's quite a bit different than modifying 230, which could be as simple as mandating a fact check. That's not eliminating free speech. Was this a serious rebuttal or cheeky?
Mandating a fact check is absolutely limiting free speech, so now we're arguing process because winning an argument is the only thing that matters
Disagree...editing the comment would be limiting free speech. Or not allowing the comment at all.
A website can do whatever they want. If Kat edits or deletes a comment on here, it's not limiting anyone's free speech. Same goes for Twitter, Facebook, etc.
so then why are you arguing that fact checks limit free speech? You lost me
Mandatory (government-required) fact checks. If a website wants to offer fact checks on posts, they should absolutely do that. If they don't want to bother, they should be able to do that, too.
That's a fine opinion, but don't act like 1. It's not possible to do 2. Large platforms should be exempt from libel whereas newspapers should not and 3. Threatened EOs by Trump is the same as a thoughtful argument on section 230 on how to restructure laws using the legislative process.
1. It is not possible to do. Too much subjectivity. 2. You are continuing to not differentiate between the responsibility of a journalist making a comment vs. a customer/user. 3. I absolutely agree with you on this point, but in a weird way we're being saved by the brazenness and stupidity of it. One could even make the argument that it's not actually meant to be upheld, but to just be antagonistic. I'm more frightened by Biden’s remarks or Josh Hawley's because it could actually happen.
1. Financial services are regulated in this environment every single day. I live this world of imperfection and ambiguity. 2. Journalists are not the only people that can be sued for libel. I'm not even advocating for strengthening of libel laws, I'm arguing for some regulatory platform on social media. You can disagree with it, but it's certainly not against the Constitution (using established precedent). 3. Great.
1. I work in healthcare, where aspects of our business that involve government programs are also regulated every day. I do not see that and finance being remotely similar to websites that allow users to post comments.
2. If there is a way (or desire) to go after the individual making a libelous comment, have at it. If Trump tweets something libelous, I have no issue with someone pursuing action against Trump. I have an issue with someone pursuing action against Twitter for something libelous that Trump tweeted.
Biden’s age and condition has me worried. I mean he looks out of it. just a bad idea to have such an old man at the top of the ticket. I mean you know only the possible future of the country and the world is at stake with this election so it’s not like it’s important or anything. Heck if he makes it to November and wins there is just very little chance he will be cognizant for four years either. I can’t believe the dems might blow another election
He's fine...tRump looks horrible. He's loud so he comes across as more "fit" but he's a walking heart attack.
don't get me wrong I'm voting for Biden or anyone who is on that line, but i don't think if you look at it honestly that Biden looks good. It's pretty clear he is losing his faculties.
People carry on like there isn't 30+ years of video clips where you can notice a difference. It's emperor's-new-clothes level shit. It makes sense to me that people would vote for him regardless, but let's talk about this stuff like reasonable adults.
It’s better to just attack people’s opinions when they are critical of joe, because this election is a referendum on trump and Biden has the victory in hand.
It's absurdly hilarious to watch. Declaring that you're voting for Biden isn't enough. If you express even the slightest reservation, you still get attacked.
Attacked? Countering your argument is commensurate with being attacked? I think you misunderstand, or just willfully ignore the points that people are making. The criticisms of Joe are small and petty and many of us here don't have interest in seeing them breathe. If you want to post your 'slightest reservation' (which is kind of funny since you said you're not voting for Biden, yet speaking for those that are), don't expect many of us not to counter those with our arguments. Your sensibilities aren't really a concern when the commander in chief is tweeting conspiracy theories and threatening to shut down or regulate the speech of private companies.
Threatening to shut down or regulate the speech of private companies is a concern, eh? It's something that Trump and Biden are both interested in.
Well as soon as Trump discusses it as a modification of section 230, then maybe I'll agree with you. Trump is pissed because that put a fact check on him, that's quite a bit different than modifying 230, which could be as simple as mandating a fact check. That's not eliminating free speech. Was this a serious rebuttal or cheeky?
Mandating a fact check is absolutely limiting free speech, so now we're arguing process because winning an argument is the only thing that matters
Disagree...editing the comment would be limiting free speech. Or not allowing the comment at all.
A website can do whatever they want. If Kat edits or deletes a comment on here, it's not limiting anyone's free speech. Same goes for Twitter, Facebook, etc.
so then why are you arguing that fact checks limit free speech? You lost me
Mandatory (government-required) fact checks. If a website wants to offer fact checks on posts, they should absolutely do that. If they don't want to bother, they should be able to do that, too.
That's a fine opinion, but don't act like 1. It's not possible to do 2. Large platforms should be exempt from libel whereas newspapers should not and 3. Threatened EOs by Trump is the same as a thoughtful argument on section 230 on how to restructure laws using the legislative process.
1. It is not possible to do. Too much subjectivity. 2. You are continuing to not differentiate between the responsibility of a journalist making a comment vs. a customer/user. 3. I absolutely agree with you on this point, but in a weird way we're being saved by the brazenness and stupidity of it. One could even make the argument that it's not actually meant to be upheld, but to just be antagonistic. I'm more frightened by Biden’s remarks or Josh Hawley's because it could actually happen.
1. Financial services are regulated in this environment every single day. I live this world of imperfection and ambiguity. 2. Journalists are not the only people that can be sued for libel. I'm not even advocating for strengthening of libel laws, I'm arguing for some regulatory platform on social media. You can disagree with it, but it's certainly not against the Constitution (using established precedent). 3. Great.
1. I work in healthcare, where aspects of our business that involve government programs are also regulated every day. I do not see that and finance being remotely similar to websites that allow users to post comments.
2. If there is a way (or desire) to go after the individual making a libelous comment, have at it. If Trump tweets something libelous, I have no issue with someone pursuing action against Trump. I have an issue with someone pursuing action against Twitter for something libelous that Trump tweeted.
Teh point is there's a clear distinction on what Biden suggested and what Trump is threatening. Your original post treated them equally. I think that's way off base, regardless of whether you think it's a good idea or not.
Biden’s age and condition has me worried. I mean he looks out of it. just a bad idea to have such an old man at the top of the ticket. I mean you know only the possible future of the country and the world is at stake with this election so it’s not like it’s important or anything. Heck if he makes it to November and wins there is just very little chance he will be cognizant for four years either. I can’t believe the dems might blow another election
He's fine...tRump looks horrible. He's loud so he comes across as more "fit" but he's a walking heart attack.
don't get me wrong I'm voting for Biden or anyone who is on that line, but i don't think if you look at it honestly that Biden looks good. It's pretty clear he is losing his faculties.
People carry on like there isn't 30+ years of video clips where you can notice a difference. It's emperor's-new-clothes level shit. It makes sense to me that people would vote for him regardless, but let's talk about this stuff like reasonable adults.
It’s better to just attack people’s opinions when they are critical of joe, because this election is a referendum on trump and Biden has the victory in hand.
It's absurdly hilarious to watch. Declaring that you're voting for Biden isn't enough. If you express even the slightest reservation, you still get attacked.
Attacked? Countering your argument is commensurate with being attacked? I think you misunderstand, or just willfully ignore the points that people are making. The criticisms of Joe are small and petty and many of us here don't have interest in seeing them breathe. If you want to post your 'slightest reservation' (which is kind of funny since you said you're not voting for Biden, yet speaking for those that are), don't expect many of us not to counter those with our arguments. Your sensibilities aren't really a concern when the commander in chief is tweeting conspiracy theories and threatening to shut down or regulate the speech of private companies.
Threatening to shut down or regulate the speech of private companies is a concern, eh? It's something that Trump and Biden are both interested in.
Well as soon as Trump discusses it as a modification of section 230, then maybe I'll agree with you. Trump is pissed because that put a fact check on him, that's quite a bit different than modifying 230, which could be as simple as mandating a fact check. That's not eliminating free speech. Was this a serious rebuttal or cheeky?
Mandating a fact check is absolutely limiting free speech, so now we're arguing process because winning an argument is the only thing that matters
Disagree...editing the comment would be limiting free speech. Or not allowing the comment at all.
A website can do whatever they want. If Kat edits or deletes a comment on here, it's not limiting anyone's free speech. Same goes for Twitter, Facebook, etc.
so then why are you arguing that fact checks limit free speech? You lost me
Mandatory (government-required) fact checks. If a website wants to offer fact checks on posts, they should absolutely do that. If they don't want to bother, they should be able to do that, too.
That's a fine opinion, but don't act like 1. It's not possible to do 2. Large platforms should be exempt from libel whereas newspapers should not and 3. Threatened EOs by Trump is the same as a thoughtful argument on section 230 on how to restructure laws using the legislative process.
1. It is not possible to do. Too much subjectivity. 2. You are continuing to not differentiate between the responsibility of a journalist making a comment vs. a customer/user. 3. I absolutely agree with you on this point, but in a weird way we're being saved by the brazenness and stupidity of it. One could even make the argument that it's not actually meant to be upheld, but to just be antagonistic. I'm more frightened by Biden’s remarks or Josh Hawley's because it could actually happen.
1. Financial services are regulated in this environment every single day. I live this world of imperfection and ambiguity. 2. Journalists are not the only people that can be sued for libel. I'm not even advocating for strengthening of libel laws, I'm arguing for some regulatory platform on social media. You can disagree with it, but it's certainly not against the Constitution (using established precedent). 3. Great.
1. I work in healthcare, where aspects of our business that involve government programs are also regulated every day. I do not see that and finance being remotely similar to websites that allow users to post comments.
2. If there is a way (or desire) to go after the individual making a libelous comment, have at it. If Trump tweets something libelous, I have no issue with someone pursuing action against Trump. I have an issue with someone pursuing action against Twitter for something libelous that Trump tweeted.
Teh point is there's a clear distinction on what Biden suggested and what Trump is threatening. Your original post treated them equally. I think that's way off base, regardless of whether you think it's a good idea or not.
I think there is a clear distinction on how they're going about it and the way they talk about it, but I think their intent is indeed similar
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
Biden’s age and condition has me worried. I mean he looks out of it. just a bad idea to have such an old man at the top of the ticket. I mean you know only the possible future of the country and the world is at stake with this election so it’s not like it’s important or anything. Heck if he makes it to November and wins there is just very little chance he will be cognizant for four years either. I can’t believe the dems might blow another election
He's fine...tRump looks horrible. He's loud so he comes across as more "fit" but he's a walking heart attack.
don't get me wrong I'm voting for Biden or anyone who is on that line, but i don't think if you look at it honestly that Biden looks good. It's pretty clear he is losing his faculties.
People carry on like there isn't 30+ years of video clips where you can notice a difference. It's emperor's-new-clothes level shit. It makes sense to me that people would vote for him regardless, but let's talk about this stuff like reasonable adults.
It’s better to just attack people’s opinions when they are critical of joe, because this election is a referendum on trump and Biden has the victory in hand.
It's absurdly hilarious to watch. Declaring that you're voting for Biden isn't enough. If you express even the slightest reservation, you still get attacked.
Attacked? Countering your argument is commensurate with being attacked? I think you misunderstand, or just willfully ignore the points that people are making. The criticisms of Joe are small and petty and many of us here don't have interest in seeing them breathe. If you want to post your 'slightest reservation' (which is kind of funny since you said you're not voting for Biden, yet speaking for those that are), don't expect many of us not to counter those with our arguments. Your sensibilities aren't really a concern when the commander in chief is tweeting conspiracy theories and threatening to shut down or regulate the speech of private companies.
Whenever people have in the past voiced any concern they are met with comments like “ Don't you hate it when millions of people disagree with your choices? Democracy sucks. ” “Berniebro”. or “look at the record of a career civil servant” that are intended to delegitimize their Concerns. Maybe it is not an outright attack, but their isn’t an awful lot of discussion going on when people level any concern about Biden’s electability.
Personally I think that immediately delegitimizing someone’s point Rather than have a discussion is akin to attacking especially on a message board where nuance and tone aren’t always coming through as intended.
I mean a statement like. “ Don't you hate it when millions of people disagree with your choices? Democracy sucks. ” Is basically the type of argument that MAGA people make when you criticize their illustrious leader. So yeah democracy sucks and it got us Trump I will agree with the statement as far as that goes.
Back to Biden, I think people are forgetting that politics as usual are what got us tRump in the first place. If we are to just look at his career and stand by his record without critiquing anything, isn’t that the same in a way as saying that we are ok with the system and policies of the last 40 years that led to us to ultimately having that sucky Democracy deliver us the death dirge of Trumpism?
It's not the type of argument a MAGA person makes. Look at the point I'm countering that "Dems" made a terrible choice, as if the party elders sat in a smoke filled room and rolled him out. Rather, the candidate with a fraction of the cash on hand vs Sanders and Warren whipped them. That's democracy in action. The people made the choice. If PJHawks wants to lament the choice of the people, that's fine, but it's not the party.
And 'politics as usual' didn't give us Trump, the rise of right wing media in the 90s gave us Trump. You're using Sanders language but we learned, emphatically, that the left of center didn't buy that argument.
I took the OPs point differently I didn’t read any smoky rooms into it. Some legitimate criticisms of electability and a genuine worry that (we) Dems might blow another election.
potato potato as far as right wing media giving rise to trump. What condition led to the dissatisfaction that so many people’s politics started drifting to the right?. It isn’t all right wing propaganda conspiracy. We have some great propaganda outlets on outside too.
Biden’s age and condition has me worried. I mean he looks out of it. just a bad idea to have such an old man at the top of the ticket. I mean you know only the possible future of the country and the world is at stake with this election so it’s not like it’s important or anything. Heck if he makes it to November and wins there is just very little chance he will be cognizant for four years either. I can’t believe the dems might blow another election
He's fine...tRump looks horrible. He's loud so he comes across as more "fit" but he's a walking heart attack.
don't get me wrong I'm voting for Biden or anyone who is on that line, but i don't think if you look at it honestly that Biden looks good. It's pretty clear he is losing his faculties.
People carry on like there isn't 30+ years of video clips where you can notice a difference. It's emperor's-new-clothes level shit. It makes sense to me that people would vote for him regardless, but let's talk about this stuff like reasonable adults.
It’s better to just attack people’s opinions when they are critical of joe, because this election is a referendum on trump and Biden has the victory in hand.
It's absurdly hilarious to watch. Declaring that you're voting for Biden isn't enough. If you express even the slightest reservation, you still get attacked.
Attacked? Countering your argument is commensurate with being attacked? I think you misunderstand, or just willfully ignore the points that people are making. The criticisms of Joe are small and petty and many of us here don't have interest in seeing them breathe. If you want to post your 'slightest reservation' (which is kind of funny since you said you're not voting for Biden, yet speaking for those that are), don't expect many of us not to counter those with our arguments. Your sensibilities aren't really a concern when the commander in chief is tweeting conspiracy theories and threatening to shut down or regulate the speech of private companies.
Whenever people have in the past voiced any concern they are met with comments like “ Don't you hate it when millions of people disagree with your choices? Democracy sucks. ” “Berniebro”. or “look at the record of a career civil servant” that are intended to delegitimize their Concerns. Maybe it is not an outright attack, but their isn’t an awful lot of discussion going on when people level any concern about Biden’s electability.
Personally I think that immediately delegitimizing someone’s point Rather than have a discussion is akin to attacking especially on a message board where nuance and tone aren’t always coming through as intended.
I mean a statement like. “ Don't you hate it when millions of people disagree with your choices? Democracy sucks. ” Is basically the type of argument that MAGA people make when you criticize their illustrious leader. So yeah democracy sucks and it got us Trump I will agree with the statement as far as that goes.
Back to Biden, I think people are forgetting that politics as usual are what got us tRump in the first place. If we are to just look at his career and stand by his record without critiquing anything, isn’t that the same in a way as saying that we are ok with the system and policies of the last 40 years that led to us to ultimately having that sucky Democracy deliver us the death dirge of Trumpism?
It's not the type of argument a MAGA person makes. Look at the point I'm countering that "Dems" made a terrible choice, as if the party elders sat in a smoke filled room and rolled him out. Rather, the candidate with a fraction of the cash on hand vs Sanders and Warren whipped them. That's democracy in action. The people made the choice. If PJHawks wants to lament the choice of the people, that's fine, but it's not the party.
And 'politics as usual' didn't give us Trump, the rise of right wing media in the 90s gave us Trump. You're using Sanders language but we learned, emphatically, that the left of center didn't buy that argument.
I took the OPs point differently I didn’t read any smoky rooms into it. Some legitimate criticisms of electability and a genuine worry that (we) Dems might blow another election.
potato potato as far as right wing media giving rise to trump. What condition led to the dissatisfaction that so many people’s politics started drifting to the right?. It isn’t all right wing propaganda conspiracy. We have some great propaganda outlets on outside too.
Right, which conditions... gay marriage, Mexicans. Anything else? You think it's taxes? Free market capitalism? Free trade? War? These are all the things that right wing media supported without fail until 2016, and mostly still supports today. So it must be the gays and Mexicans. Shame on the Democrats for fostering that environment.
plus we need to eliminate republican control of the senate. even though we know that a gop minority will lead to filibuster on every single piece of legislation. we need to trounce them so badly in the senate that we get about 63 seats. impossible i know, but it is what we need to happen to right this path we are on.
I think this is very important to keep in mind. It is time to kneecap Mitch, Lindsey and the rest of the deplorable Senate Republican leadership. The best way to do that is to make them the minority party. There's encouraging signs on that front:
it is encouraging, but we need more than 60 seats to break filibuster. 65 would be great so conservative dems could vote the way they want and we can still break the filibuster.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
grandchild in 2040- "grandpa, who did you vote for in 2020?"
me- "i didn't. i couldn't bring myself to pull the lever for biden over trump, so i didn't vote."
grandchild in 2040- "thanks for nothing, a$$hole."
me- "biden was creepy and declining."
If your grandchild thinks you're an asshole, it's more likely because you won't stop ranting about politics while they're trying to play their VR video games
Is anyone else sick of smirking white males lying on behalf of the Team Trump Treason Administration? For the first time in 50 years the Team Trump Treason Administration won’t release their economic forecast until the fall because of “uncertainty and maybe not then either.” With 40 million unemployment filings and that precipitous drop in GDP and tax revenue, you can see why but why be honest now? So much for that 4% quarter over quarter GDP growth rate for ten years to pay for that tax cut. Suckers.
Biden’s age and condition has me worried. I mean he looks out of it. just a bad idea to have such an old man at the top of the ticket. I mean you know only the possible future of the country and the world is at stake with this election so it’s not like it’s important or anything. Heck if he makes it to November and wins there is just very little chance he will be cognizant for four years either. I can’t believe the dems might blow another election
He's fine...tRump looks horrible. He's loud so he comes across as more "fit" but he's a walking heart attack.
don't get me wrong I'm voting for Biden or anyone who is on that line, but i don't think if you look at it honestly that Biden looks good. It's pretty clear he is losing his faculties.
People carry on like there isn't 30+ years of video clips where you can notice a difference. It's emperor's-new-clothes level shit. It makes sense to me that people would vote for him regardless, but let's talk about this stuff like reasonable adults.
It’s better to just attack people’s opinions when they are critical of joe, because this election is a referendum on trump and Biden has the victory in hand.
It's absurdly hilarious to watch. Declaring that you're voting for Biden isn't enough. If you express even the slightest reservation, you still get attacked.
Attacked? Countering your argument is commensurate with being attacked? I think you misunderstand, or just willfully ignore the points that people are making. The criticisms of Joe are small and petty and many of us here don't have interest in seeing them breathe. If you want to post your 'slightest reservation' (which is kind of funny since you said you're not voting for Biden, yet speaking for those that are), don't expect many of us not to counter those with our arguments. Your sensibilities aren't really a concern when the commander in chief is tweeting conspiracy theories and threatening to shut down or regulate the speech of private companies.
Whenever people have in the past voiced any concern they are met with comments like “ Don't you hate it when millions of people disagree with your choices? Democracy sucks. ” “Berniebro”. or “look at the record of a career civil servant” that are intended to delegitimize their Concerns. Maybe it is not an outright attack, but their isn’t an awful lot of discussion going on when people level any concern about Biden’s electability.
Personally I think that immediately delegitimizing someone’s point Rather than have a discussion is akin to attacking especially on a message board where nuance and tone aren’t always coming through as intended.
I mean a statement like. “ Don't you hate it when millions of people disagree with your choices? Democracy sucks. ” Is basically the type of argument that MAGA people make when you criticize their illustrious leader. So yeah democracy sucks and it got us Trump I will agree with the statement as far as that goes.
Back to Biden, I think people are forgetting that politics as usual are what got us tRump in the first place. If we are to just look at his career and stand by his record without critiquing anything, isn’t that the same in a way as saying that we are ok with the system and policies of the last 40 years that led to us to ultimately having that sucky Democracy deliver us the death dirge of Trumpism?
It's not the type of argument a MAGA person makes. Look at the point I'm countering that "Dems" made a terrible choice, as if the party elders sat in a smoke filled room and rolled him out. Rather, the candidate with a fraction of the cash on hand vs Sanders and Warren whipped them. That's democracy in action. The people made the choice. If PJHawks wants to lament the choice of the people, that's fine, but it's not the party.
And 'politics as usual' didn't give us Trump, the rise of right wing media in the 90s gave us Trump. You're using Sanders language but we learned, emphatically, that the left of center didn't buy that argument.
I took the OPs point differently I didn’t read any smoky rooms into it. Some legitimate criticisms of electability and a genuine worry that (we) Dems might blow another election.
potato potato as far as right wing media giving rise to trump. What condition led to the dissatisfaction that so many people’s politics started drifting to the right?. It isn’t all right wing propaganda conspiracy. We have some great propaganda outlets on outside too.
Right, which conditions... gay marriage, Mexicans. Anything else? You think it's taxes? Free market capitalism? Free trade? War? These are all the things that right wing media supported without fail until 2016, and mostly still supports today. So it must be the gays and Mexicans. Shame on the Democrats for fostering that environment.
Allowing capital to cross borders with protections and exclusivity but not returning the same protections to workers at home and abroad. Which created a disastrous economic climate here and overseas, creating sweatshop labor like never before and forcing exploited workers in the US to compete with exploited workers in said sweatshops driving wages down at home and creating more global disparity abroad. Those conditions were created by both sides, and because they gave rise to anger, financial insolvency and misplaced rage it was very easy for unscrupulous right wing talking points to then poison peoples mind, othering groups that were different than them creating a groundswell of support to misplace their anger and blame at various levels of identity politics rather than the politicians and economic class that allowed all of that to happen. See the Powell memo and the Trilateral commission report those documents Are the blueprints that have created the power systems of today. And this isn’t harping on Globalism. I think globalism is a great idea if all workers are given a global bill of rights. The current system based on wars and rapid growth profits at the expense of people is the underlying problem. Do democrats have a smaller share of the blame? Arguably yes. Would you have to be a fool to not vote for a Democrat in today’s political climate? Also yes. Is it ok to express misgivings about electability of a candidate outside of a left wing message board? Also yes.
Free market capitalism does not exist in today’s economy nor does free trade.
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
Biden
Biden down 4 in latest Missouri poll.
Trump won that state by 20 points in 2016...
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
Biden’s age and condition has me worried. I mean he looks out of it. just a bad idea to have such an old man at the top of the ticket. I mean you know only the possible future of the country and the world is at stake with this election so it’s not like it’s important or anything. Heck if he makes it to November and wins there is just very little chance he will be cognizant for four years either. I can’t believe the dems might blow another election
He's fine...tRump looks horrible. He's loud so he comes across as more "fit" but he's a walking heart attack.
don't get me wrong I'm voting for Biden or anyone who is on that line, but i don't think if you look at it honestly that Biden looks good. It's pretty clear he is losing his faculties.
People carry on like there isn't 30+ years of video clips where you can notice a difference. It's emperor's-new-clothes level shit. It makes sense to me that people would vote for him regardless, but let's talk about this stuff like reasonable adults.
It’s better to just attack people’s opinions when they are critical of joe, because this election is a referendum on trump and Biden has the victory in hand.
It's absurdly hilarious to watch. Declaring that you're voting for Biden isn't enough. If you express even the slightest reservation, you still get attacked.
Attacked? Countering your argument is commensurate with being attacked? I think you misunderstand, or just willfully ignore the points that people are making. The criticisms of Joe are small and petty and many of us here don't have interest in seeing them breathe. If you want to post your 'slightest reservation' (which is kind of funny since you said you're not voting for Biden, yet speaking for those that are), don't expect many of us not to counter those with our arguments. Your sensibilities aren't really a concern when the commander in chief is tweeting conspiracy theories and threatening to shut down or regulate the speech of private companies.
Whenever people have in the past voiced any concern they are met with comments like “ Don't you hate it when millions of people disagree with your choices? Democracy sucks. ” “Berniebro”. or “look at the record of a career civil servant” that are intended to delegitimize their Concerns. Maybe it is not an outright attack, but their isn’t an awful lot of discussion going on when people level any concern about Biden’s electability.
Personally I think that immediately delegitimizing someone’s point Rather than have a discussion is akin to attacking especially on a message board where nuance and tone aren’t always coming through as intended.
I mean a statement like. “ Don't you hate it when millions of people disagree with your choices? Democracy sucks. ” Is basically the type of argument that MAGA people make when you criticize their illustrious leader. So yeah democracy sucks and it got us Trump I will agree with the statement as far as that goes.
Back to Biden, I think people are forgetting that politics as usual are what got us tRump in the first place. If we are to just look at his career and stand by his record without critiquing anything, isn’t that the same in a way as saying that we are ok with the system and policies of the last 40 years that led to us to ultimately having that sucky Democracy deliver us the death dirge of Trumpism?
It's not the type of argument a MAGA person makes. Look at the point I'm countering that "Dems" made a terrible choice, as if the party elders sat in a smoke filled room and rolled him out. Rather, the candidate with a fraction of the cash on hand vs Sanders and Warren whipped them. That's democracy in action. The people made the choice. If PJHawks wants to lament the choice of the people, that's fine, but it's not the party.
And 'politics as usual' didn't give us Trump, the rise of right wing media in the 90s gave us Trump. You're using Sanders language but we learned, emphatically, that the left of center didn't buy that argument.
It's both the party and the people but ultimately if they lose this election the party heads will take the fall. We as Dems cannot lose 2 electios to this human garbage named Trump. We have failed the world if we lose again.
to those of you "sitting this one out", THIS is what you are voting for by not voting.
Buh, buh, buh both sides are the same.
clearly.
not voting is encouraging more of what we currently have. i have no use for people like that. pick a fucking side.
Pick a side and enjoy the downward spiral into a life of judging
others based solely on their political affiliation...no thanks. I am not a believer in every republican and every democrat being "xyz" and I refuse to jump on that bandwagon. I think
there is use in all human life, and I am in no way an authority on how
to tell others what they should believe in just because I feel a particular way about something. I'm sure there have been countless occasions in your life that someone who doesn't feel the need to politicize everything or even scarier your sworn enemy has been useful to your situation. I'm still sitting this one out and if you want to blame me that is fine. If it is not me it will be someone else's fault, it always is in the political bubble.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
Biden
Yeah. Tough choice.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Colorado and Iowa are looking good as potential flips to dems. Makes 7 seats in potential play.
Iowa seems like a toss-up like NC. But holy cow does Hickenlooper have a big lead in CO. And that KY poll really surprised me, but McConnell may be in for a dogfight. Interesting that Brad Barron, the Libertarian is at 7%.
Biden’s age and condition has me worried. I mean he looks out of it. just a bad idea to have such an old man at the top of the ticket. I mean you know only the possible future of the country and the world is at stake with this election so it’s not like it’s important or anything. Heck if he makes it to November and wins there is just very little chance he will be cognizant for four years either. I can’t believe the dems might blow another election
He's fine...tRump looks horrible. He's loud so he comes across as more "fit" but he's a walking heart attack.
don't get me wrong I'm voting for Biden or anyone who is on that line, but i don't think if you look at it honestly that Biden looks good. It's pretty clear he is losing his faculties.
People carry on like there isn't 30+ years of video clips where you can notice a difference. It's emperor's-new-clothes level shit. It makes sense to me that people would vote for him regardless, but let's talk about this stuff like reasonable adults.
It’s better to just attack people’s opinions when they are critical of joe, because this election is a referendum on trump and Biden has the victory in hand.
It's absurdly hilarious to watch. Declaring that you're voting for Biden isn't enough. If you express even the slightest reservation, you still get attacked.
Attacked? Countering your argument is commensurate with being attacked? I think you misunderstand, or just willfully ignore the points that people are making. The criticisms of Joe are small and petty and many of us here don't have interest in seeing them breathe. If you want to post your 'slightest reservation' (which is kind of funny since you said you're not voting for Biden, yet speaking for those that are), don't expect many of us not to counter those with our arguments. Your sensibilities aren't really a concern when the commander in chief is tweeting conspiracy theories and threatening to shut down or regulate the speech of private companies.
Whenever people have in the past voiced any concern they are met with comments like “ Don't you hate it when millions of people disagree with your choices? Democracy sucks. ” “Berniebro”. or “look at the record of a career civil servant” that are intended to delegitimize their Concerns. Maybe it is not an outright attack, but their isn’t an awful lot of discussion going on when people level any concern about Biden’s electability.
Personally I think that immediately delegitimizing someone’s point Rather than have a discussion is akin to attacking especially on a message board where nuance and tone aren’t always coming through as intended.
I mean a statement like. “ Don't you hate it when millions of people disagree with your choices? Democracy sucks. ” Is basically the type of argument that MAGA people make when you criticize their illustrious leader. So yeah democracy sucks and it got us Trump I will agree with the statement as far as that goes.
Back to Biden, I think people are forgetting that politics as usual are what got us tRump in the first place. If we are to just look at his career and stand by his record without critiquing anything, isn’t that the same in a way as saying that we are ok with the system and policies of the last 40 years that led to us to ultimately having that sucky Democracy deliver us the death dirge of Trumpism?
It's not the type of argument a MAGA person makes. Look at the point I'm countering that "Dems" made a terrible choice, as if the party elders sat in a smoke filled room and rolled him out. Rather, the candidate with a fraction of the cash on hand vs Sanders and Warren whipped them. That's democracy in action. The people made the choice. If PJHawks wants to lament the choice of the people, that's fine, but it's not the party.
And 'politics as usual' didn't give us Trump, the rise of right wing media in the 90s gave us Trump. You're using Sanders language but we learned, emphatically, that the left of center didn't buy that argument.
I took the OPs point differently I didn’t read any smoky rooms into it. Some legitimate criticisms of electability and a genuine worry that (we) Dems might blow another election.
potato potato as far as right wing media giving rise to trump. What condition led to the dissatisfaction that so many people’s politics started drifting to the right?. It isn’t all right wing propaganda conspiracy. We have some great propaganda outlets on outside too.
Right, which conditions... gay marriage, Mexicans. Anything else? You think it's taxes? Free market capitalism? Free trade? War? These are all the things that right wing media supported without fail until 2016, and mostly still supports today. So it must be the gays and Mexicans. Shame on the Democrats for fostering that environment.
Allowing capital to cross borders with protections and exclusivity but not returning the same protections to workers at home and abroad. Which created a disastrous economic climate here and overseas, creating sweatshop labor like never before and forcing exploited workers in the US to compete with exploited workers in said sweatshops driving wages down at home and creating more global disparity abroad. Those conditions were created by both sides, and because they gave rise to anger, financial insolvency and misplaced rage it was very easy for unscrupulous right wing talking points to then poison peoples mind, othering groups that were different than them creating a groundswell of support to misplace their anger and blame at various levels of identity politics rather than the politicians and economic class that allowed all of that to happen. See the Powell memo and the Trilateral commission report those documents Are the blueprints that have created the power systems of today. And this isn’t harping on Globalism. I think globalism is a great idea if all workers are given a global bill of rights. The current system based on wars and rapid growth profits at the expense of people is the underlying problem. Do democrats have a smaller share of the blame? Arguably yes. Would you have to be a fool to not vote for a Democrat in today’s political climate? Also yes. Is it ok to express misgivings about electability of a candidate outside of a left wing message board? Also yes.
Free market capitalism does not exist in today’s economy nor does free trade.
You're right on most points, although I probably disagree in degrees on where you sit, I'm sure. But what you've outlined is a no win situation. Either Democrats are full blown nationalists or protectionists, or they subject immigrants to the accusations of job stealers, which is what the right wing media has done. So what's the solution? The TPP had much stronger worker standards than NAFTA and boxed out China. Yet Sanders and Trump railed against, drawing a weak HRC to move against it because was attacked on both flanks. Are we better off with China now setting up to dominate SE Asia and Oceania? Idiots and ignorance rule. I'm sorry, I don't blame Democrats for expanding globalism and lifting up both the world and the US economy (as a whole), while pushing for more protections. It's not the Democrats fault that right wing media is totally without morals.
Comments
2. If there is a way (or desire) to go after the individual making a libelous comment, have at it. If Trump tweets something libelous, I have no issue with someone pursuing action against Trump. I have an issue with someone pursuing action against Twitter for something libelous that Trump tweeted.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
potato potato as far as right wing media giving rise to trump. What condition led to the dissatisfaction that so many people’s politics started drifting to the right?. It isn’t all right wing propaganda conspiracy. We have some great propaganda outlets on outside too.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
not voting is encouraging more of what we currently have. i have no use for people like that. pick a fucking side.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
me- "i didn't. i couldn't bring myself to pull the lever for biden over trump, so i didn't vote."
grandchild in 2040- "thanks for nothing, a$$hole."
me- "biden was creepy and declining."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Trump won that state by 20 points in 2016...
AZ and ME polls look good for D flip
NC is a toss-up
AL polls look good for R flip
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14