Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

tbergs

Biden

mickeyrat said:

benjs said:

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

mickeyrat said:

can we all take a step back and make an observation?

fox business model is to generate, stoke and sell fear, no?

there HAS. been a  distinct and marked change in tone on CNN in the past few years, no? Whats been stoked and sold in that time? Thats right, kids. FEAR.

NYT? Lets overlook the scumbag they're well versed in.....

WAPO isnt far off of that either.

sure be good to see a bit more critical thinking rather than emotional handwringing, which is my take from here.....

Biden is owning his poor performance and still has an equitable vision for the avrage citizen.

Right, but what if he has another as bad, or worse?  The second debate is after the convention, so it will be too late.  Are you betting this is an aberration or the norm?  I fear it's the norm. 

what if we never beat england in the revolutionary war?

what if.

Um, that's history.  I'm talking about the future.  The question is whether Biden is still the best person to represent the party on the ticket.  If the answer is no, then Biden owes it to the country and to his legacy to step aside.  I absolutely believed in 2020 that he was the best candidate.  I no longer do. 

You choose to live in what if. I wont play that stupid game. done it enough in the past. not doing it in the present. vote your conscience

It's not just 'what if'. The first debate performance was disastrous, so it stands to reason that his second could very well be too. If that's the case, it will be a hard sell. Now is the right time to play 'what if' - while there are still two potential options.

17 weeks from the election. approx half watched compared to 2020. and he got better as the night went on.

That "better" was still about 1/4 of what I'd want from a president so I'm not sure that's something to hang your hat on.

tbergs

Biden

gimmesometruth27 said:

ok, who does biden need to win?

african americans, and women.

you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.


also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc. 

We've all given up on Republicans having a spine or being moral, so no reason to beat that dead horse, but yet again it's the dems who need to change their candidate. Neither party should have put these 2 up, it's aggravating as fuck.

brianlux

Biden

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

ok, who does biden need to win?

african americans, and women.

you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.


also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc. 

We've all given up on Republicans having a spine or being moral, so no reason to beat that dead horse, but yet again it's the dems who need to change their candidate. Neither party should have put these 2 up, it's aggravating as fuck.

Next time, yes.  But let's deal in reality here.  It's Biden vs Trump.  That's not going to change.

mace1229

brianlux said:

First of all, Trump is not spring chicken and looks more sickly that Biden.  So the choice is old Biden with good ideas and a love of democracy, or old Trump with a shit load of felonies, poor manners, poor morals, bloated ego, unhinged narcissism, an undying love of authoritarian rule (which will come back to haunt anyone who follow it- for Pete's sake, look at some history would ya?!), and enough lies to fill a book.  How does anyone even consider that crook as a choice for president?  How is that even possible?

As for Biden's age, look, I have mornings where I look as bad as Joe on a bad day- maybe worse!  It happens when you're old.  Does that mean I'll be lucky to have another 4 and 1/2 years?  And besides, no one here is Biden's or my doctor, so why would anyone say something like that?  Jesus, you'd think some of you have never seen and old adult.  We're not going to up and die just because we have an off days.  Get a grip  

It’s not that he’ll be dead in 4 years. I expect the bar to be president to be higher than still alive. If elected, my guess is more likely than not at some point before his term is up he’ll step down or be forced to. It’s a demanding job with a tremendous amount of responsibility

I know Trump isn’t young either, his chances of getting 4.5 years is definitely well below 100 too. It’s sad these are our two choices. 

But we’ve seen a decline in Biden. I’ve been around plenty of old people. And had grandparents with dementia. Not saying he’s full blown dementia Joe, but changes can come on fast at that age.
. 

My father in law is the same age and I’ve seen a change in him in the last year. Not as bad as what we saw last week or the week before in those “faked” videos. But he gets lost in lengthy conversations lately. And he very well may still be with us in 4 years, but he wouldn’t be physically or mentally up for this job.

brianlux

Biden

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

First of all, Trump is not spring chicken and looks more sickly that Biden.  So the choice is old Biden with good ideas and a love of democracy, or old Trump with a shit load of felonies, poor manners, poor morals, bloated ego, unhinged narcissism, an undying love of authoritarian rule (which will come back to haunt anyone who follow it- for Pete's sake, look at some history would ya?!), and enough lies to fill a book.  How does anyone even consider that crook as a choice for president?  How is that even possible?

As for Biden's age, look, I have mornings where I look as bad as Joe on a bad day- maybe worse!  It happens when you're old.  Does that mean I'll be lucky to have another 4 and 1/2 years?  And besides, no one here is Biden's or my doctor, so why would anyone say something like that?  Jesus, you'd think some of you have never seen and old adult.  We're not going to up and die just because we have an off days.  Get a grip  

It’s not that he’ll be dead in 4 years. I expect the bar to be president to be higher than still alive. If elected, my guess is more likely than not at some point before his term is up he’ll step down or be forced to. It’s a demanding job with a tremendous amount of responsibility

I know Trump isn’t young either, his chances of getting 4.5 years is definitely well below 100 too. It’s sad these are our two choices. 

But we’ve seen a decline in Biden. I’ve been around plenty of old people. And had grandparents with dementia. Not saying he’s full blown dementia Joe, but changes can come on fast at that age.
. 

My father in law is the same age and I’ve seen a change in him in the last year. Not as bad as what we saw last week or the week before in those “faked” videos. But he gets lost in lengthy conversations lately. And he very well may still be with us in 4 years, but he wouldn’t be physically or mentally up for this job.

Yeah, you're right.  Let's let the slightly younger guy who wants to end democracy and pretend to be our buddy (but who in the long run will do what all dictators throughout history have done and screw us royally) be our president.  Besides, he's only been multiple times convicted as a felon.  It's not like he's a mass murderer (even though he did say that if he went out and started shooting people at random his followers would vote for him anyway).

The choice is obvious.  We'll sacrifice democracy, allow the collapse of this country, and watch the fall-out of having a crazed, megalomaniac authoritarian throw the world into chaos because Biden might not be in top form for the coming 4 1/2 years (even though his VP and carefully picked cabinet and team will be and he will continue to advocate for democracy and most of the time he will do just fine).

WHAT WAS I THINKING?!

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

The whole point of replacing Biden is to have a puncher's chance at defeating Trump. Biden was behind in the polls before the debate, showed himself to be in a shockingly poor cognitive state, and still has four months and another debate in front of him. 

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

gimmesometruth27 said:

ok, who does biden need to win?

african americans, and women.

you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.


also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc. 

The soft racism of assumptions about black voters

mace1229

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

First of all, Trump is not spring chicken and looks more sickly that Biden.  So the choice is old Biden with good ideas and a love of democracy, or old Trump with a shit load of felonies, poor manners, poor morals, bloated ego, unhinged narcissism, an undying love of authoritarian rule (which will come back to haunt anyone who follow it- for Pete's sake, look at some history would ya?!), and enough lies to fill a book.  How does anyone even consider that crook as a choice for president?  How is that even possible?

As for Biden's age, look, I have mornings where I look as bad as Joe on a bad day- maybe worse!  It happens when you're old.  Does that mean I'll be lucky to have another 4 and 1/2 years?  And besides, no one here is Biden's or my doctor, so why would anyone say something like that?  Jesus, you'd think some of you have never seen and old adult.  We're not going to up and die just because we have an off days.  Get a grip  

It’s not that he’ll be dead in 4 years. I expect the bar to be president to be higher than still alive. If elected, my guess is more likely than not at some point before his term is up he’ll step down or be forced to. It’s a demanding job with a tremendous amount of responsibility

I know Trump isn’t young either, his chances of getting 4.5 years is definitely well below 100 too. It’s sad these are our two choices. 

But we’ve seen a decline in Biden. I’ve been around plenty of old people. And had grandparents with dementia. Not saying he’s full blown dementia Joe, but changes can come on fast at that age.
. 

My father in law is the same age and I’ve seen a change in him in the last year. Not as bad as what we saw last week or the week before in those “faked” videos. But he gets lost in lengthy conversations lately. And he very well may still be with us in 4 years, but he wouldn’t be physically or mentally up for this job.

Yeah, you're right.  Let's let the slightly younger guy who wants to end democracy and pretend to be our buddy (but who in the long run will do what all dictators throughout history have done and screw us royally) be our president.  Besides, he's only been multiple times convicted as a felon.  It's not like he's a mass murderer (even though he did say that if he went out and started shooting people at random his followers would vote for him anyway).

The choice is obvious.  We'll sacrifice democracy, allow the collapse of this country, and watch the fall-out of having a crazed, megalomaniac authoritarian throw the world into chaos because Biden might not be in top form for the coming 4 1/2 years (even though his VP and carefully picked cabinet and team will be and he will continue to advocate for democracy and most of the time he will do just fine).

WHAT WAS I THINKING?!

I’ve said a few times I don’t like either candidate and neither should be on the ticket.
And I’m just commenting on what I perceive to be Biden’s mental state. You’re right that I’m not a doctor and we all have bad days. But we’ve seen a steady decline in the last several months and have just been told it’s fake news from the right, it’s just Magas, altered videos, etc. Except Thursday, there was no way to spin it or pretend it didn’t happen this time, while giving credibility to the concerns others have had.
I don’t think Trump is a good alternative. He is also old and either candidate who wins would be the oldest in history to be elected.
All I’m saying is last week Biden proved, what many suspected, his age is taking a toll. He was unable to complete several thoughts, and without a teleprompter or written speech, he struggled. That’s not going to get better in the next year or 2.
If they aren’t seriously considering replacing him or Kamala, that would be a big mistake in my opinion. It would be a mess at first, but would be best if he dropped out on his own and let someone else step up. If elected, I don’t see. Idea last 4 years - not that he’ll be dead. But just not be able to complete the tasks required.

Gern Blansten

Biden

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Harris runs for Gov of CA

Gavin takes her vp spot or... 

I was actually thinking this. Have someone replace Kamala who would have a higher approval rating. And 25 Biden within the first year. Then no need to change him on the ticket.

lol...no reason to 25 him. If tRump didn't get 25d then no one ever will

mickeyrat

Biden

weeeeeeeee.......

https://www.reuters.com/legal/trump-ally-steve-bannon-report-prison-following-contempt-conviction-2024-07-01/

 Steve Bannon, an influential Donald Trump ally, is due to report to prison on Monday to serve a four-month sentence after he was convicted for defying a congressional subpoena from the committee that probed the Jan. 6, 2021, U.S. Capitol attack.

Bannon is expected to serve his time at a low security federal prison in Danbury, Connecticut, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Trump is the Republican candidate challenging Democratic President Joe Biden in the Nov. 5 U.S. election. The sentence could keep Bannon imprisoned almost to Election Day. Inmates in federal prison do not have access to the internet or social media, making it difficult for Bannon to communicate with fans of his War Room podcast.

Bannon on Friday lost a last-ditch effort to stay out of prison when the Supreme Court rejected his request to delay his sentence while he exhausts the appeals process for his conviction.

He was sentenced to four months after being convicted in 2022 of two misdemeanor counts of contempt of Congress. He was charged after he refused to turn over documents or testify to a Democratic-led House of Representatives committee investigating the Capitol riot by Trump supporters who had sought to prevent congressional certification of Biden's 2020 election win.

Bannon was a key adviser to Trump's 2016 presidential campaign, then served as his chief White House strategist during 2017 before a falling out between them that was later patched up. He also has played an instrumental role in right-wing media.

He initially was allowed to delay starting his prison term while he appealed his conviction to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. The D.C. Circuit ultimately upheld his conviction, prompting U.S. District Court Judge Carl Nichols to order Bannon to report to prison.

Bannon will not be the first former top official from Trump's White House to go to prison for refusing to cooperate with the committee. Peter Navarro, a former Trump trade adviser, reported to prison in March after being given a four-month sentence. The Supreme Court declined Navarro's request to remain free during his appeal.

continues......

Gern Blansten

Biden

mace1229 said:

For one, I’d say the chances of him lasting 4.5 more years is less than 50/50. So may as well put the person in the VP spot who you’d want to be the one to take over. I don’t see that as immoral if it’s justified.
And second, when did being immoral stop those seeded deep within DC anyway?

I don't see him lasting as a problem. The problem is more likely that he will continue to slip mentally.

I love Biden. I think he's a great president. I also think that his slip ups are not really alarming at all. The optics are horrible...no doubt about that, but he is clearly still able to function as a great president. 

Was his loss of his train of thought really any more alarming than tRump's stupid word vomit about batteries and sharks?

mickeyrat

Biden

from MuellerSheWrote

host of the Jack , Clean Up on Aisle 45 , and Daily Beans podcasts

One of my favorite comedians and actors Eddie Izzard famously said “70% is how you look, 20% is how you sound, and 10% is what you say.” Then - hand on her heart - she launched into a rendition of The Star Spangled Banner, singing the wrong lyrics loudly and with wild expression: “And fish in the sky! And a big monkey pie!” 

Joe Biden only had that last 10% going for him during Thursday’s debate, and even then it wasn’t the best. He looked sick. He sounded quiet. He was unable to fact check the two-minute chunks of lie avalanches spewed by his racist felon opponent. He was and ill-prepared. Those who watched it can’t deny that. And I’m not going to.

My first thought was “Oh, Christ. The Media is going to do what they did with the Mueller congressional testimony. They’ll say he didn’t have PIZAZZ and they’ll keep harping on their “he’s too old” narrative and ignore substance along with the dystopian xenophobic nazi shit that Trump said.” But what the media actually did was bizarre to me. They started calling for Biden to drop out of the race altogether. Four months before the election. Beyond ballot access deadlines. And a lot of them were calling for Biden to be replaced with folks OTHER than our amazing and capable Vice President Kamala Harris. 

What. The. Fuck.

Whether you think Biden should step aside or not, we can all agree trump must be defeated in November. It seems that we each have our own ideas about the best way to do that. Ousting the incumbent four months ahead of the election with ballot access deadlines on top of us seems like a really bad idea to me. Maybe if it happened all the time, we’d have some successful historical precedent to point to. But history shows us the incumbent is by far the best candidate.

Obama flubbed his debate with Romney. John Kerry knocked all three of his debates out of the park. 20 million fewer people watched this debate than the 2020 Biden/Trump debate, and three of four post-debate polls show no movement. Debates are meaningless and history shows that. Newsweek even reported undecideds had flipped to Biden after the debate mostly because of the firehose of lies that came from Donald Trump. Biden raised over $40M in the 48 hours following the debate, and the hour after the debate ended was the single biggest grassroots fundraising haul of the entire campaign. Trump’s post-debate fundraising paled in comparison.

Again, I’m not insinuating that Biden didn’t do well. But one of the most fervent and angry replies I get from people - mostly men - responding to the fact that I still back Joe is that I’m “gaslighting” them because they saw his performance “with their own eyes.” That totally misses the point. I saw the debate, too. I’ve never said Joe knocked it out of the park, or even did well for that matter. My problem is when they call ME crazy for not wanting Biden to step aside based on one bad debate performance. Talk about gaslighting! 

Look. Had Biden gone on to the campaign headquarters later Thursday night and sounded the same as he did during the debate, or had he sounded similar later on when he went to the Waffle House, or if he sounded terrible the next day in North Carolina - then SURE we can have a discussion about persistent underperformance and capability. But the debate was clearly an anomaly. One that Bob Woodward says should be investigated. I’m not going to make excuses without facts. We know he had a cold. We know he got better as the debate progressed. We know he rocked it later that night and the following two days. But we don’t know what we don’t know so I won’t speculate on why he did poorly Thursday. I’ll let investigative journalists uncover that.

I won’t speculate because at this point, it doesn’t matter. What matters is pundits with megaphones calling for Biden to step aside with no real plan to beat trump in that scenario. If these folks truly believe that replacing Biden now is our best chance to beat Trump in November, they’re basing that opinion on feelings, not facts. Experts I trust tell us that entertaining changing course at this late stage is a ridiculous exercise in futility. And I wish it were only that. But the repeated calls rooted in fear and panic will do more damage - in my estimation - than a bad debate performance ever could.

I don’t see how dividing us with fear and panic will help defeat Trump in November. And if defeating Trump is really their goal, then they should realize the damage they’re doing and knock it the fuck off.

I also have a darker take on why they’re doing this: so that if somehow Trump wins, they can blame us for running Joe Biden. They are desperate to be right so they can score editorial points and shift the blame off of them for dividing dems and onto some mythical scenario that wouldn’t have ever worked. It happened with some Bernie supporters in 2016 - as if dems would have defeated Trump if Bernie were the nominee even though Bernie couldn’t get the votes in primaries. They did it with Merrick Garland - using debunked talking points to somehow blame him for the fact that Trump’s picks on the Supreme Court have successfully delayed Trump’s coup trial for over six months. It feels like a set up so they can say “I told you so” later with no real evidence that they would have been right. 

After I watched the debate, I was sad and anxious, but it never crossed my mind to call for Joe to step aside. That was never an option because in my mind it would be electoral suicide. Any other scenario besides Biden and Harris would fracture the party in a race that’s already too close for comfort (if the polls are to be believed - which I’m not convinced of, but why risk it?) I thought “Well, time to circle the wagons. We can’t spin this performance so we need a strong message going forward.” The very next day, we saw the “Get Back Up Again” speech. PERFECT!

I assume the polls will take a hit (mainly because the media and pundits are out here scaring the shit out of everyone and telling them how they should feel), but that we’d bounce back. That was it. It wasn’t a big deal. Until - just as they did with Hillary’s emails in 2016 - the media made it a big deal.

I was also certain that level-headed electeds wouldn’t call for Joe to step aside over one debate, and they haven’t. Hillary, Obama, Jeffries - everyone’s still with Joe despite the media. I also hope and believe that all the folks who are calling for him to step aside will still back him and vote for him and roll up their sleeves for Joe if he doesn’t step aside. New York Times excluded - who has had it in for Joe for a long time now. But I don’t care much about the opinion of an editorial board that opposed women’s suffrage and put Hitler on a pedestal. I’ve canceled my Times subscription, along with my Atlanta Journal Constitution and New Yorker subscriptions. I’ve cancelled all advertising with those publications across my podcast network. I’ve subscribed to the Philly Inquirer who countered with an editorial board piece calling for TRUMP to step aside as the republican candidate. 

I think it’s a mistake to call for Joe to stand down because facts and history tell me he’s the best chance we have to defeat Donald Trump, AND because he’s the best person for the job based on the past 3.5 years of incredible leadership. If things somehow change, I’ll always back the Dems, just as I have in every election, all the way down the ballot since my first election in 1992. But I never entertained for a second the possibility of calling for Joe to step aside sending our party into upheaval four months ahead of the most important election of our lifetime.

My support for the Biden/Harris ticket is unwavering, and I’m proud that I’ll never have to walk back comments on any of my podcasts.

Thanks for hanging in there with me.

~AG

mickeyrat

Biden

From John Pavlovitz

Essay series A Beautiful Mess

So, what is actually happening here?

In the wake of the first presidential debate, I’ve watched members of the media, high profile talking heads, and millions of voters frantically pushing the panic button, calling for Joe Biden to step down and encouraging sky-is-falling histrionics.

Now, I expect this from a cultic Republican Party prostrate before a traitorous sociopath and a myopic media intoxicated on the circus of sewage he daily generates, but seeing it from supposedly rational people who claim to be awake and paying attention to the issues is disheartening.

Yes, Joe Biden is old. He was old when he won four years ago.

He’s also an intelligent, compassionate, reasonable human being who has served this nation faithfully and is currently serving it at an extremely high level.

He is a proven leader who understands the diplomacy, nuance, and compromise required to get things accomplished.

He deftly led this nation following an insurrection, through COVID, and out of an inflation that much of the world is still in the throes of.

He has continued to combat price gouging, student loan debt, gas prices, and a myriad of attacks on human rights, while contending with the most openly corrupt, brazenly traitorous, and violently predatory cadre of Republicans in Congress in our history.

And the most shortsighted (and frankly ignorant move) for any Americans of voting age not swept up in the MAGA cult, is making this about Joe Biden alone to begin with. This is about the team of qualified and responsible adults he has surrounded himself with and the agenda of his party as a whole—which when contrasted with the alternative shouldn’t require a second thought.

Share

Joe Biden is old. Republicans stacked the Supreme Court with lawless monsters.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans joyously overturned Roe V Wade and are targeting IVF and birth control.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans are putting the Ten Commandments in public school classrooms.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans are coming for marriage rights, voting rights, Social Security, and Medicare.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans are legislating the Bible.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans are banning books and outlawing gender-affirming care.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans are protecting guns instead of school children.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans are planning Project 2025 to immediately establish theocracy.
Joe Biden is old. Donald Trump is a court-established rapist and fraud who tried to pay off a porn star to manipulate an election and he is likely guilty of high crimes against this nation and is being shielded by judges who are beholden to him.

This is the moment when we as Americans need to embody our best, most sober, most serious selves and to refuse to be distracted by the noise intended to move us from the task of defending the most elemental freedoms we are so perilously close to losing.

Now, a note to young and first time voters: I understand that seeing too older white guys in suits makes it difficult to get excited about voting and makes it easy to assume that there are similarities between the candidates, but regardless of what the media and TikTok commentators may say, this simply isn’t true. They differ in nearly every meaningful way.

It’s important to understand that you have been born into women’s, marriage, healthcare, and voting rights that were not always realities, even if you have always experienced them. For decades, they were fought tirelessly for by Democrats including Joe Biden. These rights are under relentless attacks by Donald Trump and the Republicans and they will be torn away if they are allowed to seize power. Women, LGBTQ people, immigrants, people of color, Muslims, Jews, there will be no group spared. Your voice is critical in protecting them.

And to progressive/liberal voters who insist on feeding the narrative that the two parties are equally dangerous, I would suggest that this is both intellectually dishonest and factually ridiculous. Regardless of whatever grievances you have against Joe Biden and the Democrats, when you subtract emotional catharsis and the easy high of middle finger posturing, and you look objectively at the bodies of work of the two parties; the legislation they’ve supported, the substance of their platforms, and the nation they’re actively working for and making—any false equivalencies are reckless.

Many have said that such talk is an effort to shame you, but honestly, if you can hold the reality of all that you’ve seen and experienced since Trump commandeered the Republican Party and all that is at stake in November, and act as if opting out or protest voting is a responsible choice—you should be ashamed. We don’t get dream candidates who tick every box of our preferences. We get flawed people and parties and the specific results of those we elevate to power through our participation or our abstinence.

If the Dems lose in November, America loses.

And if the Dems lose, it won't be Joe Biden or the DNC who will be to blame. It will be Left-leaning voters who allowed the media and the Right to manipulate them into fueling the firestorm of meaningless distractions of age and public speaking prowess—when they should have focused on the human, civil, and environmental protections they will be pissing away with a Republican victory.

The sole reason Biden ran in 2020 was that he saw the urgency of the moment, realized Trump would likely win, and wanted to spare America a second disastrous second term—and he did. It seems far too many people want to toss this fact aside as prisoners of the momentary news cycle.

If President Biden decides to step out of the race then we should passionately embrace whoever replaces him but until that moment comes or if it does not, he and his Administration and party are all that stands between America and its demise.

If Joe Biden’s age or his speaking style or his physical appearance or his debate performance are more important to you than beating back the fascism breathing down our collective necks you’re failing America and you need to do better.

mace1229

Two points I want to make about that essay.

I haven’t seen anyone here say Trump is an amazing candidate (I haven’t  read every single comment, so maybe there’s an exception). For the most part, there’s those who think Biden can still perform and hate Trump. And then there's who think both are lacking what it needs to be president. Because you are critical of Biden and concerned about his mental status doesn’t mean you’re a Maga (I.e. doesn’t mean your more concerned about physical looks than the job).

And performances like the debate are important. If a week’s of training and that’s what you get, what’s going to happen when he’s woken up at 3 am in the next crisis, the next 9/11, and has to make world-altering decisions at a moments notice? That doesn’t mean I don’t have concerns about trump. I used to think there’d be at least 1 option for someone who could handle a crisis, now I’m not so sure.

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

mace1229 said:

Two points I want to make about that essay.

I haven’t seen anyone here say Trump is an amazing candidate (I haven’t  read every single comment, so maybe there’s an exception). For the most part, there’s those who think Biden can still perform and hate Trump. And then there's who think both are lacking what it needs to be president. Because you are critical of Biden and concerned about his mental status doesn’t mean you’re a Maga (I.e. doesn’t mean your more concerned about physical looks than the job).

And performances like the debate are important. If a week’s of training and that’s what you get, what’s going to happen when he’s woken up at 3 am in the next crisis, the next 9/11, and has to make world-altering decisions at a moments notice? That doesn’t mean I don’t have concerns about trump. I used to think there’d be at least 1 option for someone who could handle a crisis, now I’m not so sure.

Agree with you 100%. I'm critical of Biden and concerned about his mental status BECAUSE I want to see a credible alternative to Trump.

Poncier

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

For one, I’d say the chances of him lasting 4.5 more years is less than 50/50. So may as well put the person in the VP spot who you’d want to be the one to take over. I don’t see that as immoral if it’s justified.
And second, when did being immoral stop those seeded deep within DC anyway?

Was his loss of his train of thought really any more alarming than tRump's stupid word vomit about batteries and sharks?

Absolutely it was. Far more alarming considering how many people saw Trump's Sharknado vs Teslaboat speech compared to how many people saw the debate.
And the demographics matter as well. A few hundred thousand MAGA's see Trump's rally and laugh about it and 10's of millions of undecideds/independents are amongst those who see Joe short circuit multiple times during the debate.

cutz

brianlux said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

ok, who does biden need to win?

african americans, and women.

you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.


also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc. 

GOOD point.  I'm up for that!

Yeah, if we had the right people in there who would do the right thing: Getting them BOTH to drop out, but we don't.

tbergs

Biden

cutz said:

brianlux said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

ok, who does biden need to win?

african americans, and women.

you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.


also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc. 

GOOD point.  I'm up for that!

Yeah, if we had the right people in there who would do the right thing: Getting them BOTH to drop out, but we don't.

If only they would both agree to drop out and both conventions had to actually floor vote in their candidate. That would be awesome and what this country needs right now. Drop dead or drop out 2024!

HughFreakingDillon

Biden

mace1229 said:

For one, I’d say the chances of him lasting 4.5 more years is less than 50/50. So may as well put the person in the VP spot who you’d want to be the one to take over. I don’t see that as immoral if it’s justified.
And second, when did being immoral stop those seeded deep within DC anyway?

you said "25 biden in the first year", which is what I was referring to. that's not the same as just installing a VP to succeed if he can't finish his term naturally. 

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

If we're already acknowledging he should be "25'd" he's clearly not fit to be in the role for the next 8+ months