I'll admit one thing- Amash would be better than Trump. And I hate to spoil the party, but does anyone really think America is going to elect an Independent for president? And if people vote for Amash, isn't that just going to make a second term Trump presidency more likely? Horrors!
It is the longest of longshots but it's a weird year. For one thing, large campaign rallies and tons of travel are pretty much out. Does that give him an advantage or even more of a disadvantage? Who knows? As a sharp 40yo person of color, he'll at least stand in contrast.
Libertarians generally pull more from the Republican vote. 2016 was an anomaly where Johnson pulled evenly from both. Either way, they've never pulled more from Democrats like the Greens. Not that I would discourage anyone from voting Green if that's their thing.
I'll admit one thing- Amash would be better than Trump. And I hate to spoil the party, but does anyone really think America is going to elect an Independent for president? And if people vote for Amash, isn't that just going to make a second term Trump presidency more likely? Horrors!
It is the longest of longshots but it's a weird year. For one thing, large campaign rallies and tons of travel are pretty much out. Does that give him an advantage or even more of a disadvantage? Who knows? As a sharp 40yo person of color, he'll at least stand in contrast.
Libertarians generally pull more from the Republican vote. 2016 was an anomaly where Johnson pulled evenly from both. Either way, they've never pulled more from Democrats like the Greens. Not that I would discourage anyone from voting Green if that's their thing.
One thing for sure, I would take Amash over Trump any day.
In 2016 I voted Green Party. In the long run, it didn't matter because I knew Hillary would capture all of California's Electoral College numbers. In 2020, Biden will do the same and even though he is not nearly my first pick, I'll vote for him anyway because I not only want to see Trump lose, I would love to see Trump lose by HUGE numbers. He deserves that kind of shaming.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Except we're not, because her emails and having committed sexual assault are not AT ALL the same. What we are back to is the Democrats burying their heads in the sand about potential problems with their nominee.
For about the 30th time, I'm not convinced he did this and if the election were held today he would get my vote. That's more than I could ever say about HRC.
Would you vote for Biden if it's never proven to be true?
Not proven to be false. Just never proven to be true.
I'm not voting for Biden either way
What would it take to get you to vote for Biden?
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
Thx for thoughtful answer.
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for Trump
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
🙄
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
Seriously, this kind of shortsightedness has cost 2 supreme court justice seats, and countless federal judge appointments. These are lifetime appointments that will take a generation to fix. Because people with your Veruca Salt mentality would rather cut their nose off to spite their face. Lifetime appointments that will side in favor of more militarism, no criminal justice reform, no drug policy reform. You get nothing. Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions. Enjoy your shit sandwich.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Would you vote for Biden if it's never proven to be true?
Not proven to be false. Just never proven to be true.
I'm not voting for Biden either way
What would it take to get you to vote for Biden?
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
Thx for thoughtful answer.
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for Trump
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
🙄
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
Seriously, this kind of shortsightedness has cost 2 supreme court justice seats, and countless federal judge appointments. These are lifetime appointments that will take a generation to fix. Because people with your Veruca Salt mentality would rather cut their nose off to spite their face. Lifetime appointments that will side in favor of more militarism, no criminal justice reform, no drug policy reform. You get nothing. Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions. Enjoy your shit sandwich.
Your tone is awful, just awful, but you're not wrong. Not wrong at all.
Would you vote for Biden if it's never proven to be true?
Not proven to be false. Just never proven to be true.
I'm not voting for Biden either way
What would it take to get you to vote for Biden?
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
Thx for thoughtful answer.
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for Trump
Every vote for Amash would be in effect a vote for trump.
I know you will point to history that Rs are more likely to vote libertarian. But that's old world logic.
In the current world Republicans fall in line. 2016 proved that. Ds need to fall in love. That's why dirty politics hurts Ds more.Amash is taking a huge risk and will only help trump
We are already seeing the attempt to prevent Ds from falling in love with Biden with the actions of Tara Email Server Reade.
She had 30 years to file charges, rally her "witnesses " or publicly attack Biden. But she doesnt attack til now.
Would you vote for Biden if it's never proven to be true?
Not proven to be false. Just never proven to be true.
I'm not voting for Biden either way
What would it take to get you to vote for Biden?
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
Thx for thoughtful answer.
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for Trump
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
🙄
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
Seriously, this kind of shortsightedness has cost 2 supreme court justice seats, and countless federal judge appointments. These are lifetime appointments that will take a generation to fix. Because people with your Veruca Salt mentality would rather cut their nose off to spite their face. Lifetime appointments that will side in favor of more militarism, no criminal justice reform, no drug policy reform. You get nothing. Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions. Enjoy your shit sandwich.
Your tone is awful, just awful, but you're not wrong. Not wrong at all.
I'm tired of dancing around peoples' fee-fees. Libertarians can't elect a goddamn dog-catcher, and they want the presidency? Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Would you vote for Biden if it's never proven to be true?
Not proven to be false. Just never proven to be true.
I'm not voting for Biden either way
What would it take to get you to vote for Biden?
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
Thx for thoughtful answer.
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for Trump
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
🙄
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
Seriously, this kind of shortsightedness has cost 2 supreme court justice seats, and countless federal judge appointments. These are lifetime appointments that will take a generation to fix. Because people with your Veruca Salt mentality would rather cut their nose off to spite their face. Lifetime appointments that will side in favor of more militarism, no criminal justice reform, no drug policy reform. You get nothing. Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions. Enjoy your shit sandwich.
Your tone is awful, just awful, but you're not wrong. Not wrong at all.
I'm tired of dancing around peoples' fee-fees. Libertarians can't elect a goddamn dog-catcher, and they want the presidency? Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions.
Would you vote for Biden if it's never proven to be true?
Not proven to be false. Just never proven to be true.
I'm not voting for Biden either way
What would it take to get you to vote for Biden?
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
Thx for thoughtful answer.
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for Trump
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
🙄
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
Seriously, this kind of shortsightedness has cost 2 supreme court justice seats, and countless federal judge appointments. These are lifetime appointments that will take a generation to fix. Because people with your Veruca Salt mentality would rather cut their nose off to spite their face. Lifetime appointments that will side in favor of more militarism, no criminal justice reform, no drug policy reform. You get nothing. Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions. Enjoy your shit sandwich.
Gorsuch was a great pick. One of the few bright spots of this administration. He's great on criminal justice reform and privacy.
If Amash does start leeching Biden votes it will be the winning combination of a good platform and these repulsive resistance types sending people fleeing the other way. Get away from the shrieking psychopaths AND you don't have to vote for Trump. We're here to welcome you.
Would you vote for Biden if it's never proven to be true?
Not proven to be false. Just never proven to be true.
I'm not voting for Biden either way
What would it take to get you to vote for Biden?
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
Thx for thoughtful answer.
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for Trump
Every vote for Amash would be in effect a vote for trump.
I know you will point to history that Rs are more likely to vote libertarian. But that's old world logic.
In the current world Republicans fall in line. 2016 proved that. Ds need to fall in love. That's why dirty politics hurts Ds more.Amash is taking a huge risk and will only help trump
We are already seeing the attempt to prevent Ds from falling in love with Biden with the actions of Tara Email Server Reade.
She had 30 years to file charges, rally her "witnesses " or publicly attack Biden. But she doesnt attack til now.
Why would that be?
I just crunched the numbers and every vote for Amash would be a vote for Amash
We can all be mad at the system (and justifiably so) and still vote for Biden because it's going to be Biden or Trump, take your pick. If you vote for Trump or are pro-Democrat and decide in protest not to vote, you are increasing the chances of a second Trump term and you relinquish the right to complain about having that second term become a reality and all the negative consequences that would be associated with it. That is just a simple fact. Whatever anyone decides to do, they need to own it.
And I'm just stating the facts. I'm not trying to berate, bate, badger, or troll. I'm just stating the facts.
12% of Bernie primary voters voted Team Trump Treason. They will again and vote Amash. Because “dems” love sticking it to the “libs.” Then they’ll whine about M4A, college tuition and the environment.
12% of Bernie primary voters voted Team Trump Treason. They will again and vote Amash. Because “dems” love sticking it to the “libs.” Then they’ll whine about M4A, college tuition and the environment.
We welcome all Bernie bros, sisses, and assorted non-binary siblings
'moral' 'honest' 'third party' used in the same sentence? adorable
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
12% of Bernie primary voters voted Team Trump Treason. They will again and vote Amash. Because “dems” love sticking it to the “libs.” Then they’ll whine about M4A, college tuition and the environment.
Are you saying 12% voted Trump in 2016? Because I'd much rather they vote for Amash than for Trump. That's a win...or half of a win. Libertarians tend to take votes from the GOP candidate, though I know it wasn't as clear last time. I'm still unsure how this plays out. I think if not for Joe's allegation, this would be a positive...but the allegation is there and it's probably going to be the difference.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
12% of Bernie primary voters voted Team Trump Treason. They will again and vote Amash. Because “dems” love sticking it to the “libs.” Then they’ll whine about M4A, college tuition and the environment.
Are you saying 12% voted Trump in 2016? Because I'd much rather they vote for Amash than for Trump. That's a win...or half of a win. Libertarians tend to take votes from the GOP candidate, though I know it wasn't as clear last time. I'm still unsure how this plays out. I think if not for Joe's allegation, this would be a positive...but the allegation is there and it's probably going to be the difference.
Yes, 12% of Bernie 2016 primary voters voted Team Trump Treason in the general. Thanks “dems.”
12% of Bernie primary voters voted Team Trump Treason. They will again and vote Amash. Because “dems” love sticking it to the “libs.” Then they’ll whine about M4A, college tuition and the environment.
Are you saying 12% voted Trump in 2016? Because I'd much rather they vote for Amash than for Trump. That's a win...or half of a win. Libertarians tend to take votes from the GOP candidate, though I know it wasn't as clear last time. I'm still unsure how this plays out. I think if not for Joe's allegation, this would be a positive...but the allegation is there and it's probably going to be the difference.
I think you’re right for the most part that a libertarian would take votes away from a republican. But in this specific election, I think Trump-hating republicans and now-former Trump fans with voter’s remorse are more likely to vote for a Biden than a third-party candidate. Basically to stick to Trump, but also because Biden is pretty moderate, even if he did tend to pander to the far-left a bit during the primary.
12% of Bernie primary voters voted Team Trump Treason. They will again and vote Amash. Because “dems” love sticking it to the “libs.” Then they’ll whine about M4A, college tuition and the environment.
We welcome all Bernie bros, sisses, and assorted non-binary siblings
I see the Reade accusation going one of two ways: either kinda going away quietly and having minimal impact on the election or blowing up to the point that people start asking Biden to step away.
So what if Biden drops out. I'm not sure exactly what would happen. Do all of Bernie's votes vault him? Does a running mate take over? Do the super-delegates step in and pick someone? Is the DNC already planing for this?
(Ideally, I'd like this thread not to be about Trump or even the validity of the allegations...simply a what if that would apply if any major party candidate (particlarly DEM) drops out between May and November of an election year, for any reason).
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
I'm a real person, Tiana Lowe is real journalist, and the Washington Examiner is a real outlet. If voters are indeed fleeing the Democrat candidate, a big reason is they've seen a chunk of their former allies lose their brains to conspiracy theories.
I was told reliably after South Carolina and Super Tuesday that Biden had widespread support and was unlikely to become Hillary 2.0. Whether or not that is or ever was true, Justin Amash isn't going to change it. Trump will be lucky to get the same 63 million votes he got in 2016, and any appealing alternative for right-leaning voters unwilling to make the same mistake again in 2020 can only help Biden.
I don't think he's going to drop out. It will be interesting to see how Trump plays this, though. If he goes after him over this allegation...pot meet kettle in a bigly way.
Comments
Libertarians generally pull more from the Republican vote. 2016 was an anomaly where Johnson pulled evenly from both. Either way, they've never pulled more from Democrats like the Greens. Not that I would discourage anyone from voting Green if that's their thing.
Libertarianism is a complete joke.
That is all.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
These are lifetime appointments that will take a generation to fix.
Because people with your Veruca Salt mentality would rather cut their nose off to spite their face.
Lifetime appointments that will side in favor of more militarism, no criminal justice reform, no drug policy reform. You get nothing.
Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions. Enjoy your shit sandwich.
Every vote for Amash would be in effect a vote for trump.
I know you will point to history that Rs are more likely to vote libertarian. But that's old world logic.
In the current world Republicans fall in line. 2016 proved that. Ds need to fall in love. That's why dirty politics hurts Ds more.Amash is taking a huge risk and will only help trump
We are already seeing the attempt to prevent Ds from falling in love with Biden with the actions of Tara Email Server Reade.
She had 30 years to file charges, rally her "witnesses " or publicly attack Biden. But she doesnt attack til now.
Why would that be?
Libertarians can't elect a goddamn dog-catcher, and they want the presidency?
Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions.
Love it.
I'm not one of the guppies, I can handle it 😜
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Are you saying 12% voted Trump in 2016? Because I'd much rather they vote for Amash than for Trump. That's a win...or half of a win. Libertarians tend to take votes from the GOP candidate, though I know it wasn't as clear last time. I'm still unsure how this plays out. I think if not for Joe's allegation, this would be a positive...but the allegation is there and it's probably going to be the difference.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com