But it's paid largely by Canadian tax dollars. While there isn't a designated "healthcare tax," the latest data from the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) in 2017 found that on average a Canadian spends $6,604 in taxes for healthcare coverage. It's important to note that number changes depending on income. People with higher incomes pay higher taxes, which ends up covering families who earn less.
This is considered to be on the higher end for what other advanced economies pay, like the UK or Australia. Americans, though, spend more than $10,000 per person on healthcare in total, on average.
I'd personally boycott the whole fucking thing and demand both the Republicans and Democrats renounce them as candidates. That's what the entire fucking country should do.
It's basically a guy who can actually do the job, with one accusation verses a guy, who with a second term might very well end the world with twenty times as many accusations.
It's not even a question in my mind .
If this is true, it's not just an accusation anymore. That's an important point and key to what I'm saying.
If you assume this one is true, would you then not have to assume the 20+ Trump accusations are true too?
I mean there really is no way of knowing for sure either way. But it's like Al Franken verse Bill Cosby to some extent here....one is clearly worse than the other in my mind.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that if we FIND OUT THAT THIS IS TRUE then I won't be voting for Biden. Full stop.
Yeah but what if we find out Trump's 20+ accusations are true though? To make it fair, what would you do in that situation?
We're talking about a he said/she said from 30 years ago (and in Trump's case within the last 10-15 years). We will never know for sure either way.
"Yeah but Trump" is not going to work here. If we find out that Biden did this, he should not be the nominee. None of us should have to vote for him to defeat Trump.
there's that purity test again.
Yes, you do need to be little more pure than a known sex offender. And if this turns out to be true, that's what he'll be.
Why are you afraid to answer my question? I'll ask again:
What if we find out this accusation is true....and then we also find out all of Trump's 25 accusations are true.
Both are the nominees.
What would you do?
I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing not to vote for someone who
potentially assaults women, 1 or 20 it doesn't matter.
Even if it leads to the total destruction of our democracy?
Welp, that's on you guys then!
Only time will tell and nothing is decided yet. Live in the now, all of the what ifs you are fretting about may not happen.
Spoken like someone who's not afraid of a second term of Donald Trump....
God speed.
Since you seem to have a crystal ball and have seen life in 2024 after a
potential second term. Care to share what it looks like so we can
revisit when the time actually comes? I have enough to worry about, playing Nostradamus is not on the top of my priorities. You voters seem to be doing a great job already, thank you!
You seem to have one too, since you're not concerned about a second term of Trump.
Given what we've seen over the last few years, I'd say the odds of things ending badly outweigh your rosy outlook....
My outlook comes from a position that does not see myself as being in a true position to change any of it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Your vote doesn't matter. Got it.
It matters but only by providing power to the person/party it goes towards. What they choose to do with that power is left for them and all of the other suits to decide (pantsuits included), not the voter. I can respect that you partake in that gamble, but it is not for me and I do not think they give one shit about what you or I think.
0
Options
The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,536
It's basically a guy who can actually do the job, with one accusation verses a guy, who with a second term might very well end the world with twenty times as many accusations.
It's not even a question in my mind .
If this is true, it's not just an accusation anymore. That's an important point and key to what I'm saying.
If you assume this one is true, would you then not have to assume the 20+ Trump accusations are true too?
I mean there really is no way of knowing for sure either way. But it's like Al Franken verse Bill Cosby to some extent here....one is clearly worse than the other in my mind.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that if we FIND OUT THAT THIS IS TRUE then I won't be voting for Biden. Full stop.
Yeah but what if we find out Trump's 20+ accusations are true though? To make it fair, what would you do in that situation?
We're talking about a he said/she said from 30 years ago (and in Trump's case within the last 10-15 years). We will never know for sure either way.
"Yeah but Trump" is not going to work here. If we find out that Biden did this, he should not be the nominee. None of us should have to vote for him to defeat Trump.
there's that purity test again.
Yes, you do need to be little more pure than a known sex offender. And if this turns out to be true, that's what he'll be.
Why are you afraid to answer my question? I'll ask again:
What if we find out this accusation is true....and then we also find out all of Trump's 25 accusations are true.
Both are the nominees.
What would you do?
I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing not to vote for someone who
potentially assaults women, 1 or 20 it doesn't matter.
Even if it leads to the total destruction of our democracy?
Welp, that's on you guys then!
Only time will tell and nothing is decided yet. Live in the now, all of the what ifs you are fretting about may not happen.
Spoken like someone who's not afraid of a second term of Donald Trump....
God speed.
Since you seem to have a crystal ball and have seen life in 2024 after a
potential second term. Care to share what it looks like so we can
revisit when the time actually comes? I have enough to worry about, playing Nostradamus is not on the top of my priorities. You voters seem to be doing a great job already, thank you!
You seem to have one too, since you're not concerned about a second term of Trump.
Given what we've seen over the last few years, I'd say the odds of things ending badly outweigh your rosy outlook....
My outlook comes from a position that does not see myself as being in a true position to change any of it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Your vote doesn't matter. Got it.
It matters but only by providing power to the person/party it goes towards. What they choose to do with that power is left for them and all of the other suits to decide (pantsuits included), not the voter. I can respect that you partake in that gamble, but it is not for me and I do not think they give one shit about what you or I think.
Popular opinion in normal times...however these are anything but normal times.
Hard time imagine what's in the head of folks who can't recognize that fact.
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,017
Biden
We can all be mad at the system (and justifiably so) and still vote for Biden because it's going to be Biden or Trump, take your pick. If you vote for Trump or are pro-Democrat and decide in protest not to vote, you are increasing the chances of a second Trump term and you relinquish the right to complain about having that second term become a reality and all the negative consequences that would be associated with it. That is just a simple fact. Whatever anyone decides to do, they need to own it.
And I'm just stating the facts. I'm not trying to berate, bate, badger, or troll. I'm just stating the facts.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Some
posters insist the Tara Reade’s allegations haven’t been in the news or haven’t
been given much press. The NYT, WaPo, Faux News, WSJ, USA Today, The Guardian
and CNN have all reported on it. It this weren’t true, how would I know the
following:
1. The
allegation was first picked up by a Pakistani news organization from an after
mid night pod cast where Tara claimed she has, “been trying to tell her story
since 1993.”
2. That
The Guardian reported that in a Commentary that Tara has been, “trying to tell
her story for the past year.” Which is it?
3. The
WaPo reported that her brother called or texted the reporter the following day
after initially interviewing him that while he remembered his sister telling
him about the inappropriate touching, nice legs comment and wanting her to
serve cocktails, he just remembered that she also mentioned the alleged sexual assault.
Wouldn’t you remember the latter before the former?
4. Also
in The Guardian commentary, Tara claimed she, “had no intention of filing a
civil suit.” Why is that?
5. The
NYT and WaPo reported that Tara recently filed a police report with the DC
police but did not name Sleepy Woke Joe as the perpetrator but rather Sleepy
Woke Joe is identified as Person #1. Why is that?
6. Tara
remembers what she was wearing that day but she doesn’t remember where in the
Senate or Capitol complex she delivered the duffle bag to or the area where the
alleged assault took place other than to say, “a semi-private area.” Anyone
here work on Capitol Hill in 1993 and be familiar with the Capitol Buildings,
the security, access requirements, who’s allowed or authorized to go where, through
which doors, elevators, etc? The Capitol Police staff that occupy security check
points? Or the number of people that are typically around when the Senate or Congress
is in session?
7. Tara
has claimed that she filed a complaint with the Senate HR Office and Sleepy
Woke Joe’s Chief of Staff. Therefore, wouldn’t there be a paper trail or
someone from that office who would remember such a horrible allegation? Both of
which could be compelled into evidence via a subpoena? Sleepy Woke Joe’s staff
has already vigorously denied the allegation.
8. Sleepy
Woke Joe ran for the senate twice after the alleged incident, once for POTUS
and twice for VP. Not a peep about the sexual assault allegations. From Tara or
any other source prior to now. Odd, don’t you think?
9. As
someone else said and as Tara said, “she didn’t pursue it out of ‘respect’ for
her former boss.” Odd thing to say if you were sexually assaulted, no?
I
wish Tara would file a civil suit so that all the potential evidence could be gathered
and all of the potential witnesses deposed. For Tara’s sake, for Sleepy Woke
Joe’s reputation, or not, as the case may be, and for the voters of this nation
to make an informed decision. Tara has the power and the legal means to seek
justice. Is that too much to ask? Particularly in light of Ford testifying in the Kavanaugh hearings?
It's basically a guy who can actually do the job, with one accusation verses a guy, who with a second term might very well end the world with twenty times as many accusations.
It's not even a question in my mind .
If this is true, it's not just an accusation anymore. That's an important point and key to what I'm saying.
If you assume this one is true, would you then not have to assume the 20+ Trump accusations are true too?
I mean there really is no way of knowing for sure either way. But it's like Al Franken verse Bill Cosby to some extent here....one is clearly worse than the other in my mind.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that if we FIND OUT THAT THIS IS TRUE then I won't be voting for Biden. Full stop.
Yeah but what if we find out Trump's 20+ accusations are true though? To make it fair, what would you do in that situation?
We're talking about a he said/she said from 30 years ago (and in Trump's case within the last 10-15 years). We will never know for sure either way.
"Yeah but Trump" is not going to work here. If we find out that Biden did this, he should not be the nominee. None of us should have to vote for him to defeat Trump.
there's that purity test again.
Yes, you do need to be little more pure than a known sex offender. And if this turns out to be true, that's what he'll be.
Why are you afraid to answer my question? I'll ask again:
What if we find out this accusation is true....and then we also find out all of Trump's 25 accusations are true.
Both are the nominees.
What would you do?
I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing not to vote for someone who
potentially assaults women, 1 or 20 it doesn't matter.
Even if it leads to the total destruction of our democracy?
Welp, that's on you guys then!
Only time will tell and nothing is decided yet. Live in the now, all of the what ifs you are fretting about may not happen.
Spoken like someone who's not afraid of a second term of Donald Trump....
God speed.
Since you seem to have a crystal ball and have seen life in 2024 after a
potential second term. Care to share what it looks like so we can
revisit when the time actually comes? I have enough to worry about, playing Nostradamus is not on the top of my priorities. You voters seem to be doing a great job already, thank you!
You seem to have one too, since you're not concerned about a second term of Trump.
Given what we've seen over the last few years, I'd say the odds of things ending badly outweigh your rosy outlook....
My outlook comes from a position that does not see myself as being in a true position to change any of it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Your vote doesn't matter. Got it.
It matters but only by providing power to the person/party it goes towards. What they choose to do with that power is left for them and all of the other suits to decide (pantsuits included), not the voter. I can respect that you partake in that gamble, but it is not for me and I do not think they give one shit about what you or I think.
Popular opinion in normal times...however these are anything but normal times.
Hard time imagine what's in the head of folks who can't recognize that fact.
It is my opinion at any given time. Biden could be the greatest
president ever, he could also be worse than trump. A gamble is a gamble, doesn't matter what the situation is.
0
Options
The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,536
It's basically a guy who can actually do the job, with one accusation verses a guy, who with a second term might very well end the world with twenty times as many accusations.
It's not even a question in my mind .
If this is true, it's not just an accusation anymore. That's an important point and key to what I'm saying.
If you assume this one is true, would you then not have to assume the 20+ Trump accusations are true too?
I mean there really is no way of knowing for sure either way. But it's like Al Franken verse Bill Cosby to some extent here....one is clearly worse than the other in my mind.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that if we FIND OUT THAT THIS IS TRUE then I won't be voting for Biden. Full stop.
Yeah but what if we find out Trump's 20+ accusations are true though? To make it fair, what would you do in that situation?
We're talking about a he said/she said from 30 years ago (and in Trump's case within the last 10-15 years). We will never know for sure either way.
"Yeah but Trump" is not going to work here. If we find out that Biden did this, he should not be the nominee. None of us should have to vote for him to defeat Trump.
there's that purity test again.
Yes, you do need to be little more pure than a known sex offender. And if this turns out to be true, that's what he'll be.
Why are you afraid to answer my question? I'll ask again:
What if we find out this accusation is true....and then we also find out all of Trump's 25 accusations are true.
Both are the nominees.
What would you do?
I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing not to vote for someone who
potentially assaults women, 1 or 20 it doesn't matter.
Even if it leads to the total destruction of our democracy?
Welp, that's on you guys then!
Only time will tell and nothing is decided yet. Live in the now, all of the what ifs you are fretting about may not happen.
Spoken like someone who's not afraid of a second term of Donald Trump....
God speed.
Since you seem to have a crystal ball and have seen life in 2024 after a
potential second term. Care to share what it looks like so we can
revisit when the time actually comes? I have enough to worry about, playing Nostradamus is not on the top of my priorities. You voters seem to be doing a great job already, thank you!
You seem to have one too, since you're not concerned about a second term of Trump.
Given what we've seen over the last few years, I'd say the odds of things ending badly outweigh your rosy outlook....
My outlook comes from a position that does not see myself as being in a true position to change any of it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Your vote doesn't matter. Got it.
It matters but only by providing power to the person/party it goes towards. What they choose to do with that power is left for them and all of the other suits to decide (pantsuits included), not the voter. I can respect that you partake in that gamble, but it is not for me and I do not think they give one shit about what you or I think.
Popular opinion in normal times...however these are anything but normal times.
Hard time imagine what's in the head of folks who can't recognize that fact.
It is my opinion at any given time. Biden could be the greatest
president ever, he could also be worse than trump. A gamble is a gamble, doesn't matter what the situation is.
A gamble is a gamble but the odds can vary significantly given the circumstances. These are not normal times...
Trust me, I've voted third party in the past. Wouldn't even consider it in '16 and this year as well. Entirely too much is at stake.
Would you vote for Biden if it's never proven to be true?
Not proven to be false. Just never proven to be true.
I'm not voting for Biden either way
What would it take to get you to vote for Biden?
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
Thx for thoughtful answer.
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for Trump
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Would you vote for Biden if it's never proven to be true?
Not proven to be false. Just never proven to be true.
I'm not voting for Biden either way
What would it take to get you to vote for Biden?
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
Thx for thoughtful answer.
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for Trump
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
Would you vote for Biden if it's never proven to be true?
Not proven to be false. Just never proven to be true.
I'm not voting for Biden either way
What would it take to get you to vote for Biden?
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
Thx for thoughtful answer.
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for Trump
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
🙄
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Would you vote for Biden if it's never proven to be true?
Not proven to be false. Just never proven to be true.
I'm not voting for Biden either way
What would it take to get you to vote for Biden?
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
Thx for thoughtful answer.
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for Trump
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
🙄
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
Popular opinion in normal times...however these are anything but normal times.
Hard time imagine what's in the head of folks who can't recognize that fact.
It is my opinion at any given time. Biden could be the greatest
president ever, he could also be worse than trump. A gamble is a gamble, doesn't matter what the situation is.
Biden worse than Trump? I can't even imagine that on a fictional level. I'm having a hard time picturing anyone being a worse president than trump.
Well, OK, maybe this guy:
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
It's basically a guy who can actually do the job, with one accusation verses a guy, who with a second term might very well end the world with twenty times as many accusations.
It's not even a question in my mind .
If this is true, it's not just an accusation anymore. That's an important point and key to what I'm saying.
If you assume this one is true, would you then not have to assume the 20+ Trump accusations are true too?
I mean there really is no way of knowing for sure either way. But it's like Al Franken verse Bill Cosby to some extent here....one is clearly worse than the other in my mind.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that if we FIND OUT THAT THIS IS TRUE then I won't be voting for Biden. Full stop.
Yeah but what if we find out Trump's 20+ accusations are true though? To make it fair, what would you do in that situation?
We're talking about a he said/she said from 30 years ago (and in Trump's case within the last 10-15 years). We will never know for sure either way.
"Yeah but Trump" is not going to work here. If we find out that Biden did this, he should not be the nominee. None of us should have to vote for him to defeat Trump.
there's that purity test again.
Yes, you do need to be little more pure than a known sex offender. And if this turns out to be true, that's what he'll be.
Why are you afraid to answer my question? I'll ask again:
What if we find out this accusation is true....and then we also find out all of Trump's 25 accusations are true.
Both are the nominees.
What would you do?
I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing not to vote for someone who
potentially assaults women, 1 or 20 it doesn't matter.
Even if it leads to the total destruction of our democracy?
Welp, that's on you guys then!
Only time will tell and nothing is decided yet. Live in the now, all of the what ifs you are fretting about may not happen.
Spoken like someone who's not afraid of a second term of Donald Trump....
God speed.
Since you seem to have a crystal ball and have seen life in 2024 after a
potential second term. Care to share what it looks like so we can
revisit when the time actually comes? I have enough to worry about, playing Nostradamus is not on the top of my priorities. You voters seem to be doing a great job already, thank you!
You seem to have one too, since you're not concerned about a second term of Trump.
Given what we've seen over the last few years, I'd say the odds of things ending badly outweigh your rosy outlook....
My outlook comes from a position that does not see myself as being in a true position to change any of it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Your vote doesn't matter. Got it.
It matters but only by providing power to the person/party it goes towards. What they choose to do with that power is left for them and all of the other suits to decide (pantsuits included), not the voter. I can respect that you partake in that gamble, but it is not for me and I do not think they give one shit about what you or I think.
Popular opinion in normal times...however these are anything but normal times.
Hard time imagine what's in the head of folks who can't recognize that fact.
It is my opinion at any given time. Biden could be the greatest
president ever, he could also be worse than trump. A gamble is a gamble, doesn't matter what the situation is.
Would pretty much need Shaggy and Scooby Doo to pull the mask off of Biden and reveal Eric or Don Jr. or Jared for Biden to be a worse president than Trump.
Would you vote for Biden if it's never proven to be true?
Not proven to be false. Just never proven to be true.
I'm not voting for Biden either way
What would it take to get you to vote for Biden?
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.
Thx for thoughtful answer.
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for Trump
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
🙄
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
Popular opinion in normal times...however these are anything but normal times.
Hard time imagine what's in the head of folks who can't recognize that fact.
It is my opinion at any given time. Biden could be the greatest
president ever, he could also be worse than trump. A gamble is a gamble, doesn't matter what the situation is.
Biden worse than Trump? I can't even imagine that on a fictional level. I'm having a hard time picturing anyone being a worse president than trump.
It's basically a guy who can actually do the job, with one accusation verses a guy, who with a second term might very well end the world with twenty times as many accusations.
It's not even a question in my mind .
If this is true, it's not just an accusation anymore. That's an important point and key to what I'm saying.
If you assume this one is true, would you then not have to assume the 20+ Trump accusations are true too?
I mean there really is no way of knowing for sure either way. But it's like Al Franken verse Bill Cosby to some extent here....one is clearly worse than the other in my mind.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that if we FIND OUT THAT THIS IS TRUE then I won't be voting for Biden. Full stop.
Yeah but what if we find out Trump's 20+ accusations are true though? To make it fair, what would you do in that situation?
We're talking about a he said/she said from 30 years ago (and in Trump's case within the last 10-15 years). We will never know for sure either way.
"Yeah but Trump" is not going to work here. If we find out that Biden did this, he should not be the nominee. None of us should have to vote for him to defeat Trump.
there's that purity test again.
Yes, you do need to be little more pure than a known sex offender. And if this turns out to be true, that's what he'll be.
Why are you afraid to answer my question? I'll ask again:
What if we find out this accusation is true....and then we also find out all of Trump's 25 accusations are true.
Both are the nominees.
What would you do?
I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing not to vote for someone who
potentially assaults women, 1 or 20 it doesn't matter.
Even if it leads to the total destruction of our democracy?
Welp, that's on you guys then!
Only time will tell and nothing is decided yet. Live in the now, all of the what ifs you are fretting about may not happen.
Spoken like someone who's not afraid of a second term of Donald Trump....
God speed.
Since you seem to have a crystal ball and have seen life in 2024 after a
potential second term. Care to share what it looks like so we can
revisit when the time actually comes? I have enough to worry about, playing Nostradamus is not on the top of my priorities. You voters seem to be doing a great job already, thank you!
You seem to have one too, since you're not concerned about a second term of Trump.
Given what we've seen over the last few years, I'd say the odds of things ending badly outweigh your rosy outlook....
My outlook comes from a position that does not see myself as being in a true position to change any of it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Your vote doesn't matter. Got it.
It matters but only by providing power to the person/party it goes towards. What they choose to do with that power is left for them and all of the other suits to decide (pantsuits included), not the voter. I can respect that you partake in that gamble, but it is not for me and I do not think they give one shit about what you or I think.
Popular opinion in normal times...however these are anything but normal times.
Hard time imagine what's in the head of folks who can't recognize that fact.
It is my opinion at any given time. Biden could be the greatest
president ever, he could also be worse than trump. A gamble is a gamble, doesn't matter what the situation is.
Would pretty much need Shaggy and Scooby Doo to pull the mask off of Biden and reveal Eric or Don Jr. or Jared for Biden to be a worse president than Trump.
It's basically a guy who can actually do the job, with one accusation verses a guy, who with a second term might very well end the world with twenty times as many accusations.
It's not even a question in my mind .
If this is true, it's not just an accusation anymore. That's an important point and key to what I'm saying.
If you assume this one is true, would you then not have to assume the 20+ Trump accusations are true too?
I mean there really is no way of knowing for sure either way. But it's like Al Franken verse Bill Cosby to some extent here....one is clearly worse than the other in my mind.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that if we FIND OUT THAT THIS IS TRUE then I won't be voting for Biden. Full stop.
Yeah but what if we find out Trump's 20+ accusations are true though? To make it fair, what would you do in that situation?
We're talking about a he said/she said from 30 years ago (and in Trump's case within the last 10-15 years). We will never know for sure either way.
"Yeah but Trump" is not going to work here. If we find out that Biden did this, he should not be the nominee. None of us should have to vote for him to defeat Trump.
there's that purity test again.
Yes, you do need to be little more pure than a known sex offender. And if this turns out to be true, that's what he'll be.
Why are you afraid to answer my question? I'll ask again:
What if we find out this accusation is true....and then we also find out all of Trump's 25 accusations are true.
Both are the nominees.
What would you do?
I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing not to vote for someone who
potentially assaults women, 1 or 20 it doesn't matter.
Even if it leads to the total destruction of our democracy?
Welp, that's on you guys then!
Only time will tell and nothing is decided yet. Live in the now, all of the what ifs you are fretting about may not happen.
Spoken like someone who's not afraid of a second term of Donald Trump....
God speed.
Since you seem to have a crystal ball and have seen life in 2024 after a
potential second term. Care to share what it looks like so we can
revisit when the time actually comes? I have enough to worry about, playing Nostradamus is not on the top of my priorities. You voters seem to be doing a great job already, thank you!
You seem to have one too, since you're not concerned about a second term of Trump.
Given what we've seen over the last few years, I'd say the odds of things ending badly outweigh your rosy outlook....
My outlook comes from a position that does not see myself as being in a true position to change any of it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Your vote doesn't matter. Got it.
It matters but only by providing power to the person/party it goes towards. What they choose to do with that power is left for them and all of the other suits to decide (pantsuits included), not the voter. I can respect that you partake in that gamble, but it is not for me and I do not think they give one shit about what you or I think.
Popular opinion in normal times...however these are anything but normal times.
Hard time imagine what's in the head of folks who can't recognize that fact.
It is my opinion at any given time. Biden could be the greatest
president ever, he could also be worse than trump. A gamble is a gamble, doesn't matter what the situation is.
Would pretty much need Shaggy and Scooby Doo to pull the mask off of Biden and reveal Eric or Don Jr. or Jared for Biden to be a worse president than Trump.
Eric and Don, Jr. Who Will be President (My guess bolded)
Both
Just Jr.
Just Eric
Neither
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It's basically a guy who can actually do the job, with one accusation verses a guy, who with a second term might very well end the world with twenty times as many accusations.
It's not even a question in my mind .
If this is true, it's not just an accusation anymore. That's an important point and key to what I'm saying.
If you assume this one is true, would you then not have to assume the 20+ Trump accusations are true too?
I mean there really is no way of knowing for sure either way. But it's like Al Franken verse Bill Cosby to some extent here....one is clearly worse than the other in my mind.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that if we FIND OUT THAT THIS IS TRUE then I won't be voting for Biden. Full stop.
Yeah but what if we find out Trump's 20+ accusations are true though? To make it fair, what would you do in that situation?
We're talking about a he said/she said from 30 years ago (and in Trump's case within the last 10-15 years). We will never know for sure either way.
"Yeah but Trump" is not going to work here. If we find out that Biden did this, he should not be the nominee. None of us should have to vote for him to defeat Trump.
there's that purity test again.
Yes, you do need to be little more pure than a known sex offender. And if this turns out to be true, that's what he'll be.
Why are you afraid to answer my question? I'll ask again:
What if we find out this accusation is true....and then we also find out all of Trump's 25 accusations are true.
Both are the nominees.
What would you do?
Not vote and protest along with the many others that would be out on the streets pissed that we have voted for the lesser of two evils for so long that we had the “choice” of which sex offender would be the president.
You make it seem like we've never had that "choice" before? Kind of naive of you, one would say...
To my knowledge in my lifetime we have not ever had convicted sex offenders on the ballot for President. At the risk of dating myself my first election was in 2000. So please elaborate on when USA had to vote between two convicted sex offenders for president.
We still don't.
I never said we did. I was playing along with the imaginary scenario.
Except...you added the word "convicted," for some reason, which is obviously an enormous difference.
The original premise was if we found this and all of trumps accusations to be true, no? Well being true would have to be proven and my understanding (not a lawyer) is that in America unless something can be proven legally in this case it isn’t true. So in the imaginary scenario for the accusations to be true wouldn’t both candidates have been found guilty and been convicted of being sex offenders. I didn’t add anything, the premise is that they are convicted by virtue of the truth of their guilt.
Nah.
That's precisely not what the premise was. If Trump or Biden were found guilty by a court of law, neither party would nominate them. I don't believe it's even possible in this case due statute of limitations.
The question was simply if we knew Biden's accusation was true and Trump's 25 accusations were true....what would you do?
And again, we've had nominees run for president with similar accusations before.
If I knew it was all true I would vote for neither. Either withhold my vote or vote 3rd party. In fact my belief is that if we get to the level where we have two sex offenders whom we somehow know to truthfully be guilty yet haven’t been found so in the court of law and still think that is a viable choice for president, then we would deserve to have trump just drive it all the way into the ground.
That being said I don’t find the accusations against Biden credible at all.
That's such a great meme. Im not a fan of many of his stances, but I respect his principled nature. And he doesn't strike me as being so principled that's he's intractable.
That's such a great meme. Im not a fan of many of his stances, but I respect his principled nature. And he doesn't strike me as being so principled that's he's intractable.
Yeah, he's not a zealot. I'm really interested to see where he plants a flag on issues. To Brian's points, he describes himself as pro-life but I'm almost certain I've seen him say abortion should be legal into the second trimester. And I've never really heard him talk about environmental issues, but I'd be stunned if he were a climate change denier.
That's such a great meme. Im not a fan of many of his stances, but I respect his principled nature. And he doesn't strike me as being so principled that's he's intractable.
Also, I demand a new poll option if he wins the nomination so I can change my flair
That's such a great meme. Im not a fan of many of his stances, but I respect his principled nature. And he doesn't strike me as being so principled that's he's intractable.
Yeah, he's not a zealot. I'm really interested to see where he plants a flag on issues. To Brian's points, he describes himself as pro-life but I'm almost certain I've seen him say abortion should be legal into the second trimester. And I've never really heard him talk about environmental issues, but I'd be stunned if he were a climate change denier.
Isn't it a paradox to take a pro life stance as a libertarian? Now if it's his personal belief, that's different. I would probably consider myself pro life but I support choice for everyone.
That's such a great meme. Im not a fan of many of his stances, but I respect his principled nature. And he doesn't strike me as being so principled that's he's intractable.
Also, I demand a new poll option if he wins the nomination so I can change my flair
That's such a great meme. Im not a fan of many of his stances, but I respect his principled nature. And he doesn't strike me as being so principled that's he's intractable.
Yeah, he's not a zealot. I'm really interested to see where he plants a flag on issues. To Brian's points, he describes himself as pro-life but I'm almost certain I've seen him say abortion should be legal into the second trimester. And I've never really heard him talk about environmental issues, but I'd be stunned if he were a climate change denier.
Isn't it a paradox to take a pro life stance as a libertarian? Now if it's his personal belief, that's different. I would probably consider myself pro life but I support choice for everyone.
Believe it or not, it's one issue where there's a big split within the party. It's the nature of the whole argument, right? When do individual rights begin? I'd describe my stance similarly to yours. For what it's worth, this is from the 2020 Libertarian Party platform:
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,017
Biden
I'll admit one thing- Amash would be better than Trump. And I hate to spoil the party, but does anyone really think America is going to elect an Independent for president? And if people vote for Amash, isn't that just going to make a second term Trump presidency more likely? Horrors!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
But it's paid largely by Canadian tax dollars. While there isn't a designated "healthcare tax," the latest data from the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI) in 2017 found that on average a Canadian spends $6,604 in taxes for healthcare coverage. It's important to note that number changes depending on income. People with higher incomes pay higher taxes, which ends up covering families who earn less.
This is considered to be on the higher end for what other advanced economies pay, like the UK or Australia. Americans, though, spend more than $10,000 per person on healthcare in total, on average.
https://www-businessinsider-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.businessinsider.com/american-misconceptions-about-canadian-healthcare-2019-11?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA=#aoh=15881099014340&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.businessinsider.com/american-misconceptions-about-canadian-healthcare-2019-11
Edit: I meant to quote @mrussel1
Hard time imagine what's in the head of folks who can't recognize that fact.
Some posters insist the Tara Reade’s allegations haven’t been in the news or haven’t been given much press. The NYT, WaPo, Faux News, WSJ, USA Today, The Guardian and CNN have all reported on it. It this weren’t true, how would I know the following:
1. The allegation was first picked up by a Pakistani news organization from an after mid night pod cast where Tara claimed she has, “been trying to tell her story since 1993.”
2. That The Guardian reported that in a Commentary that Tara has been, “trying to tell her story for the past year.” Which is it?
3. The WaPo reported that her brother called or texted the reporter the following day after initially interviewing him that while he remembered his sister telling him about the inappropriate touching, nice legs comment and wanting her to serve cocktails, he just remembered that she also mentioned the alleged sexual assault. Wouldn’t you remember the latter before the former?
4. Also in The Guardian commentary, Tara claimed she, “had no intention of filing a civil suit.” Why is that?
5. The NYT and WaPo reported that Tara recently filed a police report with the DC police but did not name Sleepy Woke Joe as the perpetrator but rather Sleepy Woke Joe is identified as Person #1. Why is that?
6. Tara remembers what she was wearing that day but she doesn’t remember where in the Senate or Capitol complex she delivered the duffle bag to or the area where the alleged assault took place other than to say, “a semi-private area.” Anyone here work on Capitol Hill in 1993 and be familiar with the Capitol Buildings, the security, access requirements, who’s allowed or authorized to go where, through which doors, elevators, etc? The Capitol Police staff that occupy security check points? Or the number of people that are typically around when the Senate or Congress is in session?
7. Tara has claimed that she filed a complaint with the Senate HR Office and Sleepy Woke Joe’s Chief of Staff. Therefore, wouldn’t there be a paper trail or someone from that office who would remember such a horrible allegation? Both of which could be compelled into evidence via a subpoena? Sleepy Woke Joe’s staff has already vigorously denied the allegation.
8. Sleepy Woke Joe ran for the senate twice after the alleged incident, once for POTUS and twice for VP. Not a peep about the sexual assault allegations. From Tara or any other source prior to now. Odd, don’t you think?
9. As someone else said and as Tara said, “she didn’t pursue it out of ‘respect’ for her former boss.” Odd thing to say if you were sexually assaulted, no?
I wish Tara would file a civil suit so that all the potential evidence could be gathered and all of the potential witnesses deposed. For Tara’s sake, for Sleepy Woke Joe’s reputation, or not, as the case may be, and for the voters of this nation to make an informed decision. Tara has the power and the legal means to seek justice. Is that too much to ask? Particularly in light of Ford testifying in the Kavanaugh hearings?
So much for it not being reported on.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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Trust me, I've voted third party in the past. Wouldn't even consider it in '16 and this year as well. Entirely too much is at stake.
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
Would pretty much need Shaggy and Scooby Doo to pull the mask off of Biden and reveal Eric or Don Jr. or Jared for Biden to be a worse president than Trump.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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There are no kings inside the gates of eden
He's against women's choice and weak on environment- almost to the point of being a climate change denier. Nothing happening there.