If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
The Bernie supporters are better served with Team Trump Treason as POTUS? Why wouldn’t they get behind Hillary and pressure her to give them what they wanted? Why do socialists think everything should be handed to them rather than rolling up their sleeves and doing the hard work within the party they allegedly ran in? Oh, never mind, it’s like every other so called “independent” that doesn’t want to do the dirty work and who run under the guise of belonging to either the repub or dem party.
But anyway, how’s that spite party working out for Bernie and his followers now?
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
I do think he needs to proclaim that he's not a socialist, particularly when he's asked/accused. It's all silliness, but "socialism" and the culture wars (along, of course, with general Trump devotion) are all the GQP really has right now. Biden needs to make clear that he's not a socialist, just like he makes clear on his commercial that rioting and looting are not protest and not OK.
That said, "I beat the socialist" was pretty stupid. It looks like a taunt and perhaps could impact some of the hard-left that's thinking about softening their stance and voting for him.
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If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
It was one election and that was just one of the many reasons HRC lost. The Bernie voters didn't mess things up in '18. Polling suggests Biden is doing fine with them this go around too.
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
The Bernie supporters are better served with Team Trump Treason as POTUS? Why wouldn’t they get behind Hillary and pressure her to give them what they wanted? Why do socialists think everything should be handed to them rather than rolling up their sleeves and doing the hard work within the party they allegedly ran in? Oh, never mind, it’s like every other so called “independent” that doesn’t want to do the dirty work and who run under the guise of belonging to either the repub or dem party.
But anyway, how’s that spite party working out for Bernie and his followers now?
Only spite I’ve been seeing seems to be coming from vote shamers. I mean vote shaming and ostracizing and ridiculing Sanders voters sure did win the election in’16...oh wait no that didn’t work. As far as being better under Triple T I think there are a lot of people out there that really believe that no politician is going to help them. You want hard work, earn those votes explain to people your vision your plans and how you will implement it. People aren’t running for office politicians are, it’s their job to earn votes.
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
It was one election and that was just one of the many reasons HRC lost. The Bernie voters didn't mess things up in '18. Polling suggests Biden is doing fine with them this go around too.
As far as I am concerned I agree Biden is doing much better, the problem isn’t me it is Bernie voters that will see this as an insult and taking their vote for granted. Could be a few could be several thousand. The point is, why not just say “I’m not a socialist”, why throw the other guy under the bus. If suddenly it’s all about throwing people under the bus let’s throw some Republican politicians under the bus, call out trump for being an idiot explain trump doesn’t even understand what he’s talking about. There are about a million things that could have been said that wouldn’t alienate a large segment of potential Biden voters.
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
The Bernie supporters are better served with Team Trump Treason as POTUS? Why wouldn’t they get behind Hillary and pressure her to give them what they wanted? Why do socialists think everything should be handed to them rather than rolling up their sleeves and doing the hard work within the party they allegedly ran in? Oh, never mind, it’s like every other so called “independent” that doesn’t want to do the dirty work and who run under the guise of belonging to either the repub or dem party.
But anyway, how’s that spite party working out for Bernie and his followers now?
Only spite I’ve been seeing seems to be coming from vote shamers. I mean vote shaming and ostracizing and ridiculing Sanders voters sure did win the election in’16...oh wait no that didn’t work
You work with and within the party you allegedly support, not against it, to get your desired end result. You think AOC is going to stamp her feet and tell her followers to stay home? No, she's rolled up her sleeves and is doing the hard work required and moving the dems to the left, maybe not as quickly as the Bernie supporters would like but at least she's showing the grandpa's followers how to be an adult about it. Bernie supporters who stayed home or voted third party out of spite should be shamed. They own part of the current clusterfuck we're in.
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
It was one election and that was just one of the many reasons HRC lost. The Bernie voters didn't mess things up in '18. Polling suggests Biden is doing fine with them this go around too.
As far as I am concerned I agree Biden is doing much better, the problem isn’t me it is Bernie voters that will see this as an insult and taking their vote for granted. Could be a few could be several thousand. The point is, why not just say “I’m not a socialist”, why throw the other guy under the bus. If suddenly it’s all about throwing people under the bus let’s throw some Republican politicians under the bus, call out trump for being an idiot explain trump doesn’t even understand what he’s talking about. There are about a million things that could have been said that wouldn’t alienate a large segment of potential Biden voters.
I didn't see the interview you're talking about. I hear what you are saying. The other side of the coin, though, is the republicans will take any sign of weakness regarding this issue and exploit it to kingdom come. So it's probably better for Biden to be more firm on this than not...
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
The Bernie supporters are better served with Team Trump Treason as POTUS? Why wouldn’t they get behind Hillary and pressure her to give them what they wanted? Why do socialists think everything should be handed to them rather than rolling up their sleeves and doing the hard work within the party they allegedly ran in? Oh, never mind, it’s like every other so called “independent” that doesn’t want to do the dirty work and who run under the guise of belonging to either the repub or dem party.
But anyway, how’s that spite party working out for Bernie and his followers now?
Only spite I’ve been seeing seems to be coming from vote shamers. I mean vote shaming and ostracizing and ridiculing Sanders voters sure did win the election in’16...oh wait no that didn’t work
You work with and within the party you allegedly support, not against it, to get your desired end result. You think AOC is going to stamp her feet and tell her followers to stay home? No, she's rolled up her sleeves and is doing the hard work required and moving the dems to the left, maybe not as quickly as the Bernie supporters would like but at least she's showing the grandpa's followers how to be an adult about it. Bernie supporters who stayed home or voted third party out of spite should be shamed. They own part of the current clusterfuck we're in.
And I’m sure telling them that in those words will get them straight to the polls. Bernie brought millions of fresh people into politics, created a multigenerational multi ethnic coalition that has been steadily moving the Democrat party to the left. This wasn’t done just by AOC, The Squad and Bernie, it was done by the volunteers, small donations, phone bankers, door knockers and down ballot progressive candidates that were largely Bernie supporters. Tell me how this isn’t doing the work? It’s crazy that people would rather try to drive this group of potential voters away through shame than reach out a hand for inclusion.
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
It was one election and that was just one of the many reasons HRC lost. The Bernie voters didn't mess things up in '18. Polling suggests Biden is doing fine with them this go around too.
As far as I am concerned I agree Biden is doing much better, the problem isn’t me it is Bernie voters that will see this as an insult and taking their vote for granted. Could be a few could be several thousand. The point is, why not just say “I’m not a socialist”, why throw the other guy under the bus. If suddenly it’s all about throwing people under the bus let’s throw some Republican politicians under the bus, call out trump for being an idiot explain trump doesn’t even understand what he’s talking about. There are about a million things that could have been said that wouldn’t alienate a large segment of potential Biden voters.
Then start or join the Socialist Party and stop pretending to be a dem. Or, work within the dem party to move it left. Is that so hard to understand? Why is it all or nothing with you guys? Either be pure with your ideology or realize that politics with two major parties is about compromise, intraparty and between them, and that neither side really ever gets all that it wants. And also realize which of the two major parties are more closely aligned with your end results/goals.
To the bolded: because that should be so fucking obvious to them by now and they shouldn't need SWJBB to remind them. My god.
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
There are also plenty of moderate independents. We are the ones who will largely determine the results of this election just like two years ago.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
The Bernie supporters are better served with Team Trump Treason as POTUS? Why wouldn’t they get behind Hillary and pressure her to give them what they wanted? Why do socialists think everything should be handed to them rather than rolling up their sleeves and doing the hard work within the party they allegedly ran in? Oh, never mind, it’s like every other so called “independent” that doesn’t want to do the dirty work and who run under the guise of belonging to either the repub or dem party.
But anyway, how’s that spite party working out for Bernie and his followers now?
Only spite I’ve been seeing seems to be coming from vote shamers. I mean vote shaming and ostracizing and ridiculing Sanders voters sure did win the election in’16...oh wait no that didn’t work
You work with and within the party you allegedly support, not against it, to get your desired end result. You think AOC is going to stamp her feet and tell her followers to stay home? No, she's rolled up her sleeves and is doing the hard work required and moving the dems to the left, maybe not as quickly as the Bernie supporters would like but at least she's showing the grandpa's followers how to be an adult about it. Bernie supporters who stayed home or voted third party out of spite should be shamed. They own part of the current clusterfuck we're in.
And I’m sure telling them that in those words will get them straight to the polls. Bernie brought millions of fresh people into politics, created a multigenerational multi ethnic coalition that has been steadily moving the Democrat party to the left. This wasn’t done just by AOC, The Squad and Bernie, it was done by the volunteers, small donations, phone bankers, door knockers and down ballot progressive candidates that were largely Bernie supporters. Tell me how this isn’t doing the work? It’s crazy that people would rather try to drive this group of potential voters away through shame than reach out a hand for inclusion.
The hand is out there reaching to them and yet, they still question whether they should take it? Madness. Bernie lost, twice. Get over it. They have a choice to make. Make it but live with the consequences.
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
the real problem here is the NOT A DRMOCRAT running for Dem nnomination.But for that , do you think that newish younger voting block would be part of the conversation?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
It was one election and that was just one of the many reasons HRC lost. The Bernie voters didn't mess things up in '18. Polling suggests Biden is doing fine with them this go around too.
As far as I am concerned I agree Biden is doing much better, the problem isn’t me it is Bernie voters that will see this as an insult and taking their vote for granted. Could be a few could be several thousand. The point is, why not just say “I’m not a socialist”, why throw the other guy under the bus. If suddenly it’s all about throwing people under the bus let’s throw some Republican politicians under the bus, call out trump for being an idiot explain trump doesn’t even understand what he’s talking about. There are about a million things that could have been said that wouldn’t alienate a large segment of potential Biden voters.
Then start or join the Socialist Party and stop pretending to be a dem. Or, work within the dem party to move it left. Is that so hard to understand? Why is it all or nothing with you guys? Either be pure with your ideology or realize that politics with two major parties is about compromise, intraparty and between them, and that neither side really ever gets all that it wants. And also realize which of the two major parties are more closely aligned with your end results/goals.
To the bolded: because that should be so fucking obvious to them by now and they shouldn't need SWJBB to remind them. My god.
Work within the party is what a majority in the left are trying to do all while being told we aren’t working within the party the right way..
You guys? I’ve stated about a zillion times for you and other libs that I’m voting for Biden, but you continue to criticize.
Neither side really ever gets all it wants? Really...I mean really...the Republicans sure are, but we are over here telling Bernie voters to behave the right way...
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
the real problem here is the NOT A DRMOCRAT running for Dem nnomination.But for that , do you think that newish younger voting block would be part of the conversation?
Without the non-faux-Dem whatever H2theM wants to call him, millions of potential Democrat voters would not have been engaged over the course of the last two election cycles. I don’t believe we would have seen the blue wave or a host of the down ballot progressives we’ve gotten.
Why are you talking about the left populist trumpish 2x loser?
Because if you really believe that his supporters could cost you the election and give us 4 more years of trump, it really seems like a smart move would be to not alienate them.
We grew 30% from 1990 to now. If we grow another 30% in the next 30 years, we'd grow another 100 million to be at 430 million in 2050. The southwest is already at capacity. We already have power outages in the summer, already have water shortages, farmers will be overwhelmed. It can literally take 90 minutes to drive 15 miles in southern California. Imagine if we increase that population by 30%. I think the biggest impact for the environment is population, but that's rarely talked about. I don't see how this isn't a primary issue for most people, but its almost never talked about. I don't see there being universal healthcare, or a green deal, it'll be a collapse of a nation.
There's millions of acres out west owned by the federal government. I'm hopeful that technology will continue to improve to feed and provide fresh water. This isn't a domestic issue, it's a humanity one. So immigration plans aren't what we need per se.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,881
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
the real problem here is the NOT A DRMOCRAT running for Dem nnomination.But for that , do you think that newish younger voting block would be part of the conversation?
Without the non-faux-Dem whatever H2theM wants to call him, millions of potential Democrat voters would not have been engaged over the course of the last two election cycles. I don’t believe we would have seen the blue wave or a host of the down ballot progressives we’ve gotten.
psst, the blue wave primarily consisted of moderate dems who ran their own campaigns independent of the national party. kept things local.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
We grew 30% from 1990 to now. If we grow another 30% in the next 30 years, we'd grow another 100 million to be at 430 million in 2050. The southwest is already at capacity. We already have power outages in the summer, already have water shortages, farmers will be overwhelmed. It can literally take 90 minutes to drive 15 miles in southern California. Imagine if we increase that population by 30%. I think the biggest impact for the environment is population, but that's rarely talked about. I don't see how this isn't a primary issue for most people, but its almost never talked about. I don't see there being universal healthcare, or a green deal, it'll be a collapse of a nation.
There's millions of acres out west owned by the federal government. I'm hopeful that technology will continue to improve to feed and provide fresh water. This isn't a domestic issue, it's a humanity one. So immigration plans aren't what we need per se.
There is, indeed, a great deal of land out west that is undeveloped but most of what can be developed has been, and much of that development will prove to be unsustainable. The environmental impact on the west has continued to degrade the quality of the land and of life (both human and otherwise) for several decades. Check out Ray Dasmann's book, The Destruction of California, written clear back in 1965. It is still well regarded to this day. Wallace Stegner, Richard Manning, Terry Tempest Williams, Edward Abbey, Doug Peacock, Dave Foreman among others- all of whom are or have lived in and studied the west and are well regarded- have all written extensively about this issue.
I have a lot of respect for your thoughts and ideas on political issues, M, but simply having hopes that because there are large areas of lightly populated land in west that this land will solve the problems of population and immigration issues is just not logical. Much of the land out here is marginal at best, and the influx of humanity into these lands has only served to degrade them further. In 1951, when I was born in here in California, the population was 11.13 million people. Today it is close to 40 million. The impact of that population increase has been devastating (believe me- I have witnessed this it all over the state and the west in general). Moving more people here will do nothing but create more and greater problems. Viewed from an ecological, scientific perspective, and in the long run, from a humanitarian perspective, further populating the west is just not feasible, humane, or logical choice. It is just not a wise option.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
We grew 30% from 1990 to now. If we grow another 30% in the next 30 years, we'd grow another 100 million to be at 430 million in 2050. The southwest is already at capacity. We already have power outages in the summer, already have water shortages, farmers will be overwhelmed. It can literally take 90 minutes to drive 15 miles in southern California. Imagine if we increase that population by 30%. I think the biggest impact for the environment is population, but that's rarely talked about. I don't see how this isn't a primary issue for most people, but its almost never talked about. I don't see there being universal healthcare, or a green deal, it'll be a collapse of a nation.
There's millions of acres out west owned by the federal government. I'm hopeful that technology will continue to improve to feed and provide fresh water. This isn't a domestic issue, it's a humanity one. So immigration plans aren't what we need per se.
There is, indeed, a great deal of land out west that is undeveloped but most of what can be developed has been, and much of that development will prove to be unsustainable. The environmental impact on the west has continued to degrade the quality of the land and of life (both human and otherwise) for several decades. Check out Ray Dasmann's book, The Destruction of California, written clear back in 1965. It is still well regarded to this day. Wallace Stegner, Richard Manning, Terry Tempest Williams, Edward Abbey, Doug Peacock, Dave Foreman among others- all of whom are or have lived in and studied the west and are well regarded- have all written extensively about this issue.
I have a lot of respect for your thoughts and ideas on political issues, M, but simply having hopes that because there are large areas of lightly populated land in west that this land will solve the problems of population and immigration issues is just not logical. Much of the land out here is marginal at best, and the influx of humanity into these lands has only served to degrade them further. In 1951, when I was born in here in California, the population was 11.13 million people. Today it is close to 40 million. The impact of that population increase has been devastating (believe me- I have witnessed this it all over the state and the west in general). Moving more people here will do nothing but create more and greater problems. Viewed from an ecological, scientific perspective, and in the long run, from a humanitarian perspective, further populating the west is just not feasible, humane, or logical choice. It is just not a wise option.
The point I'm making is that there a humanity problem that needs to be solved, and it's not limited to US immigration. The world population will continue to grow so we need technology to help us create more sustainable food and water supply for all humans, not just Americans. I don't personally worry about land for Americans, rather these other issues around clean food and water.
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
the real problem here is the NOT A DRMOCRAT running for Dem nnomination.But for that , do you think that newish younger voting block would be part of the conversation?
Without the non-faux-Dem whatever H2theM wants to call him, millions of potential Democrat voters would not have been engaged over the course of the last two election cycles. I don’t believe we would have seen the blue wave or a host of the down ballot progressives we’ve gotten.
And imagine if they had whole heartedly threw their support behind Hillary and then again in 2018 behind dems. Imagine where we’d be now. I can’t believe that is lost on Bernie supporters. But no, pouting is the way to go.
We grew 30% from 1990 to now. If we grow another 30% in the next 30 years, we'd grow another 100 million to be at 430 million in 2050. The southwest is already at capacity. We already have power outages in the summer, already have water shortages, farmers will be overwhelmed. It can literally take 90 minutes to drive 15 miles in southern California. Imagine if we increase that population by 30%. I think the biggest impact for the environment is population, but that's rarely talked about. I don't see how this isn't a primary issue for most people, but its almost never talked about. I don't see there being universal healthcare, or a green deal, it'll be a collapse of a nation.
There's millions of acres out west owned by the federal government. I'm hopeful that technology will continue to improve to feed and provide fresh water. This isn't a domestic issue, it's a humanity one. So immigration plans aren't what we need per se.
There is, indeed, a great deal of land out west that is undeveloped but most of what can be developed has been, and much of that development will prove to be unsustainable. The environmental impact on the west has continued to degrade the quality of the land and of life (both human and otherwise) for several decades. Check out Ray Dasmann's book, The Destruction of California, written clear back in 1965. It is still well regarded to this day. Wallace Stegner, Richard Manning, Terry Tempest Williams, Edward Abbey, Doug Peacock, Dave Foreman among others- all of whom are or have lived in and studied the west and are well regarded- have all written extensively about this issue.
I have a lot of respect for your thoughts and ideas on political issues, M, but simply having hopes that because there are large areas of lightly populated land in west that this land will solve the problems of population and immigration issues is just not logical. Much of the land out here is marginal at best, and the influx of humanity into these lands has only served to degrade them further. In 1951, when I was born in here in California, the population was 11.13 million people. Today it is close to 40 million. The impact of that population increase has been devastating (believe me- I have witnessed this it all over the state and the west in general). Moving more people here will do nothing but create more and greater problems. Viewed from an ecological, scientific perspective, and in the long run, from a humanitarian perspective, further populating the west is just not feasible, humane, or logical choice. It is just not a wise option.
The point I'm making is that there a humanity problem that needs to be solved, and it's not limited to US immigration. The world population will continue to grow so we need technology to help us create more sustainable food and water supply for all humans, not just Americans. I don't personally worry about land for Americans, rather these other issues around clean food and water.
There’s someone who is advocating that the US population should be one billion as a counter to China and to illustrate how a large population under democratic rule could challenge the world to be more free. Claims we have plenty of land and resources to make it happen. I’ll try to find it but I think it’s the NYT.
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
the real problem here is the NOT A DRMOCRAT running for Dem nnomination.But for that , do you think that newish younger voting block would be part of the conversation?
Without the non-faux-Dem whatever H2theM wants to call him, millions of potential Democrat voters would not have been engaged over the course of the last two election cycles. I don’t believe we would have seen the blue wave or a host of the down ballot progressives we’ve gotten.
And imagine if they had whole heartedly threw their support behind Hillary and then again in 2018 behind dems. Imagine where we’d be now. I can’t believe that is lost on Bernie supporters. But no, pouting is the way to go.
i honestly find this attitude quite strange...."we want to vote for you, but you aren't being nice enough to us!".
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
the real problem here is the NOT A DRMOCRAT running for Dem nnomination.But for that , do you think that newish younger voting block would be part of the conversation?
Without the non-faux-Dem whatever H2theM wants to call him, millions of potential Democrat voters would not have been engaged over the course of the last two election cycles. I don’t believe we would have seen the blue wave or a host of the down ballot progressives we’ve gotten.
And imagine if they had whole heartedly threw their support behind Hillary and then again in 2018 behind dems. Imagine where we’d be now. I can’t believe that is lost on Bernie supporters. But no, pouting is the way to go.
i honestly find this attitude quite strange...."we want to vote for you, but you aren't being nice enough to us!".
Nice? More like we’re not getting everything we want from “our side” so fuck them, it’s too much work. Rather pout.
We grew 30% from 1990 to now. If we grow another 30% in the next 30 years, we'd grow another 100 million to be at 430 million in 2050. The southwest is already at capacity. We already have power outages in the summer, already have water shortages, farmers will be overwhelmed. It can literally take 90 minutes to drive 15 miles in southern California. Imagine if we increase that population by 30%. I think the biggest impact for the environment is population, but that's rarely talked about. I don't see how this isn't a primary issue for most people, but its almost never talked about. I don't see there being universal healthcare, or a green deal, it'll be a collapse of a nation.
There's millions of acres out west owned by the federal government. I'm hopeful that technology will continue to improve to feed and provide fresh water. This isn't a domestic issue, it's a humanity one. So immigration plans aren't what we need per se.
There is, indeed, a great deal of land out west that is undeveloped but most of what can be developed has been, and much of that development will prove to be unsustainable. The environmental impact on the west has continued to degrade the quality of the land and of life (both human and otherwise) for several decades. Check out Ray Dasmann's book, The Destruction of California, written clear back in 1965. It is still well regarded to this day. Wallace Stegner, Richard Manning, Terry Tempest Williams, Edward Abbey, Doug Peacock, Dave Foreman among others- all of whom are or have lived in and studied the west and are well regarded- have all written extensively about this issue.
I have a lot of respect for your thoughts and ideas on political issues, M, but simply having hopes that because there are large areas of lightly populated land in west that this land will solve the problems of population and immigration issues is just not logical. Much of the land out here is marginal at best, and the influx of humanity into these lands has only served to degrade them further. In 1951, when I was born in here in California, the population was 11.13 million people. Today it is close to 40 million. The impact of that population increase has been devastating (believe me- I have witnessed this it all over the state and the west in general). Moving more people here will do nothing but create more and greater problems. Viewed from an ecological, scientific perspective, and in the long run, from a humanitarian perspective, further populating the west is just not feasible, humane, or logical choice. It is just not a wise option.
The point I'm making is that there a humanity problem that needs to be solved, and it's not limited to US immigration. The world population will continue to grow so we need technology to help us create more sustainable food and water supply for all humans, not just Americans. I don't personally worry about land for Americans, rather these other issues around clean food and water.
There’s someone who is advocating that the US population should be one billion as a counter to China and to illustrate how a large population under democratic rule could challenge the world to be more free. Claims we have plenty of land and resources to make it happen. I’ll try to find it but I think it’s the NYT.
I saw this today too. It didn’t sound like a very good idea to me. Imagine all of the problems and poverty, homelessness, crap jobs etc. we now have multiplied to that degree. We need to figure out how to run a functioning society of 300 million before we start wishing for a billion.
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
the real problem here is the NOT A DRMOCRAT running for Dem nnomination.But for that , do you think that newish younger voting block would be part of the conversation?
Without the non-faux-Dem whatever H2theM wants to call him, millions of potential Democrat voters would not have been engaged over the course of the last two election cycles. I don’t believe we would have seen the blue wave or a host of the down ballot progressives we’ve gotten.
And imagine if they had whole heartedly threw their support behind Hillary and then again in 2018 behind dems. Imagine where we’d be now. I can’t believe that is lost on Bernie supporters. But no, pouting is the way to go.
i honestly find this attitude quite strange...."we want to vote for you, but you aren't being nice enough to us!".
So does “we know you are already planning on voting for us but we want you to know how much we look down on you, and you better be ok with that and not argue” make more sense?
If you really want Bernie voters the best thing might be to reach out and not have your surrogates vote shame, Also don’t go on national TV and say I’m not a socialist I beat the socialist, that’s how I got the nomination. By all means keep on courting the mythical moderate republicans rather than trying to strengthen the left by building a coalition..
There are non-socialist democrats that are far from mythical. I'm one of them.
What I mean to say is that for people and a party as a whole that love to cry foul about losing elections due to Bernie and his voters they sure aren’t courting them. You can’t say Bernie voters cost the election if you don’t do anything to get them besides say Orange man bad not voting is a vote for Trump. I understand not everyone is as left as I am, but to discount the coalition that is claimed to have cost the 2016 election just seems like a dumb move.
the real problem here is the NOT A DRMOCRAT running for Dem nnomination.But for that , do you think that newish younger voting block would be part of the conversation?
Without the non-faux-Dem whatever H2theM wants to call him, millions of potential Democrat voters would not have been engaged over the course of the last two election cycles. I don’t believe we would have seen the blue wave or a host of the down ballot progressives we’ve gotten.
And imagine if they had whole heartedly threw their support behind Hillary and then again in 2018 behind dems. Imagine where we’d be now. I can’t believe that is lost on Bernie supporters. But no, pouting is the way to go.
i honestly find this attitude quite strange...."we want to vote for you, but you aren't being nice enough to us!".
So does “we know you are already planning on voting for us but we want you to know how much we look down on you, and you better be ok with that and not argue” make more sense?
well, there's a certain amount of that that is honestly deserved. it honestly doesn't make sense, but i can understand it.
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But anyway, how’s that spite party working out for Bernie and his followers now?
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To the bolded: because that should be so fucking obvious to them by now and they shouldn't need SWJBB to remind them. My god.
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the real problem here is the NOT A DRMOCRAT running for Dem nnomination.But for that , do you think that newish younger voting block would be part of the conversation?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
www.headstonesband.com
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
www.headstonesband.com
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
www.headstonesband.com