Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

static111

Biden

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

potential running mate for Biden.  Good to hear her in this format...

http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1130-stacey-abrams

She comes across as smart and a decent person. But her highest office is state legislator in a state that will most likely vote republican without much of a battle.

I’d prefer someone more battle tested and a stronger resume.

Val Demings is a much stronger candidate. As former Police Chief of Orlando she has the perfect background and hometown for a 2020 presidential campaign. She is a talented communicator, as is Abrams, but comes across as tough but fair with the perfect experience in the current political climate.

Agreed...I realize the experience argument is somewhat out the door given the tRump victory but the VP needs to be ready on day 1.  I like Abrams but, even though she may be ready?, her background doesn't suggest it.

Demings would be huge with the black vote....and it will be hard for tRump to paint Biden as anti-police with her on the ticket.  Plus the FL connection.

With a large portion of the base calling to defund the police I don’t see how a police candidate would be a good thing.  Am I missing something or is she like the Greatest nicest never had a wrongful death on her watch cop?  Millions of dem voters out saying defund the police and people really think a cop Ticket  is what is needed Right now?

Halifax2TheMax

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

potential running mate for Biden.  Good to hear her in this format...

http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1130-stacey-abrams

She comes across as smart and a decent person. But her highest office is state legislator in a state that will most likely vote republican without much of a battle.

I’d prefer someone more battle tested and a stronger resume.

Val Demings is a much stronger candidate. As former Police Chief of Orlando she has the perfect background and hometown for a 2020 presidential campaign. She is a talented communicator, as is Abrams, but comes across as tough but fair with the perfect experience in the current political climate.

Agreed...I realize the experience argument is somewhat out the door given the tRump victory but the VP needs to be ready on day 1.  I like Abrams but, even though she may be ready?, her background doesn't suggest it.

Demings would be huge with the black vote....and it will be hard for tRump to paint Biden as anti-police with her on the ticket.  Plus the FL connection.

With a large portion of the base calling to defund the police I don’t see how a police candidate would be a good thing.  Am I missing something or is she like the Greatest nicest never had a wrongful death on her watch cop?  Millions of dem voters out saying defund the police and people really think a cop Ticket  is what is needed Right now?

Dunno, but she may have a record of reforming the police? Maybe? Whoever is chosen will have their whole life exposed soon enough.

PJPOWER

darwinstheory said:

Good old fashioned Russian vodka. The best vodka!

Straight from the dick of Putin?

mickeyrat

Biden

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

static111

Biden

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

I guess because it doesn’t say she has safely been making incremental change in the halls of Congress for 30+ years?  Seems to be a hot qualifier.  Personally I think she’d be great. Nobody’s perfect.

mickeyrat

Biden

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

I guess because it doesn’t say she has safely been making incremental change in the halls of Congress for 30+ years?  Seems to be a hot qualifier.  Personally I think she’d be great. Nobody’s perfect.

but she articulates that very point very well.

did you take the time to hear the podcast? Maron replays a segment with Obama that sets the table

Gern Blansten

Biden

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

potential running mate for Biden.  Good to hear her in this format...

http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1130-stacey-abrams

She comes across as smart and a decent person. But her highest office is state legislator in a state that will most likely vote republican without much of a battle.

I’d prefer someone more battle tested and a stronger resume.

Val Demings is a much stronger candidate. As former Police Chief of Orlando she has the perfect background and hometown for a 2020 presidential campaign. She is a talented communicator, as is Abrams, but comes across as tough but fair with the perfect experience in the current political climate.

Agreed...I realize the experience argument is somewhat out the door given the tRump victory but the VP needs to be ready on day 1.  I like Abrams but, even though she may be ready?, her background doesn't suggest it.

Demings would be huge with the black vote....and it will be hard for tRump to paint Biden as anti-police with her on the ticket.  Plus the FL connection.

With a large portion of the base calling to defund the police I don’t see how a police candidate would be a good thing.  Am I missing something or is she like the Greatest nicest never had a wrongful death on her watch cop?  Millions of dem voters out saying defund the police and people really think a cop Ticket  is what is needed Right now?

I don't think millions of dems are saying "defund the police"....but I do know that people that refer to "defund the police" do not tend to understand what it means.

Gern Blansten

Biden

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

JD from Yale is impressive

mickeyrat

Biden

Gern Blansten said:

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

JD from Yale is impressive

So her legislative chops , 11 yrs in Ga house with 7 as leader and that resume of higher education?

plus her lived experience and insight?

pretty powerful to me

mrussel1

Biden

mickeyrat said:

Gern Blansten said:

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

JD from Yale is impressive

So her legislative chops , 11 yrs in Ga house with 7 as leader and that resume of higher education?

plus her lived experience and insight?

pretty powerful to me

Not arguing her merits,  but Vals experience as retired police could blunt the right wing "defund" attacks.  And it will make it hard for the far left to attack her since she is a POC. She's actually a good counter to both extremes. 

The Juggler

Biden

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

I'd take Keisha over her. Both decent options though. 

The Juggler

Biden

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-tulsa-oversold_n_5ee8e5fcc5b6f9929a8c35a5

Rick Tyler, a GOP consultant who worked on Texas Sen. Ted Cruz’s 2016 campaign, said he doesn’t understand why Trump and his people keep bragging about their rally attendance in the first place.

“Free tickets to a freak show are not hard to give away and a good time will be had by all,” Tyler noted. “But there is a reason the circus only comes to town until the crowds thin and it’s time to move on. The problem for team Trump is that his market share of voters has not expanded beyond people who love clown shows.”

static111

Biden

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

I guess because it doesn’t say she has safely been making incremental change in the halls of Congress for 30+ years?  Seems to be a hot qualifier.  Personally I think she’d be great. Nobody’s perfect.

but she articulates that very point very well.

did you take the time to hear the podcast? Maron replays a segment with Obama that sets the table

I think she would be great.  I was being  either facetious or sarcastic. Not sure which.  Trying to state that to some people she isn’t an old reliable safe democrat hand and that can be a turn off for a lot of centrists or whatever they call themselves.

static111

Biden

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

potential running mate for Biden.  Good to hear her in this format...

http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1130-stacey-abrams

She comes across as smart and a decent person. But her highest office is state legislator in a state that will most likely vote republican without much of a battle.

I’d prefer someone more battle tested and a stronger resume.

Val Demings is a much stronger candidate. As former Police Chief of Orlando she has the perfect background and hometown for a 2020 presidential campaign. She is a talented communicator, as is Abrams, but comes across as tough but fair with the perfect experience in the current political climate.

Agreed...I realize the experience argument is somewhat out the door given the tRump victory but the VP needs to be ready on day 1.  I like Abrams but, even though she may be ready?, her background doesn't suggest it.

Demings would be huge with the black vote....and it will be hard for tRump to paint Biden as anti-police with her on the ticket.  Plus the FL connection.

With a large portion of the base calling to defund the police I don’t see how a police candidate would be a good thing.  Am I missing something or is she like the Greatest nicest never had a wrongful death on her watch cop?  Millions of dem voters out saying defund the police and people really think a cop Ticket  is what is needed Right now?

I don't think millions of dems are saying "defund the police"....but I do know that people that refer to "defund the police" do not tend to understand what it means.

Are you saying that the millions of people in the streets are not likely dem voters? Are you also saying that the people saying defund the police don’t understand that it means defunding their budget and reallocating funds for measures like community housing and mental health etc?  I think that anyone out in those streets saying defund the police knows exactly what it means. I also think that all of us that have spent time there are much more likely to vote D than R.

  Basically I’m not understanding what you are saying, maybe we agree.  To me putting a cop on the ballot is a sure fire way to really turn off voters.  Why have a law and order ticket? Isn’t that what the republicans are for?  I mean if people want a “tough on crime” ticket there is already an option for that.  Why should we try to appease republicans?

mrussel1

Biden

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

potential running mate for Biden.  Good to hear her in this format...

http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1130-stacey-abrams

She comes across as smart and a decent person. But her highest office is state legislator in a state that will most likely vote republican without much of a battle.

I’d prefer someone more battle tested and a stronger resume.

Val Demings is a much stronger candidate. As former Police Chief of Orlando she has the perfect background and hometown for a 2020 presidential campaign. She is a talented communicator, as is Abrams, but comes across as tough but fair with the perfect experience in the current political climate.

Agreed...I realize the experience argument is somewhat out the door given the tRump victory but the VP needs to be ready on day 1.  I like Abrams but, even though she may be ready?, her background doesn't suggest it.

Demings would be huge with the black vote....and it will be hard for tRump to paint Biden as anti-police with her on the ticket.  Plus the FL connection.

With a large portion of the base calling to defund the police I don’t see how a police candidate would be a good thing.  Am I missing something or is she like the Greatest nicest never had a wrongful death on her watch cop?  Millions of dem voters out saying defund the police and people really think a cop Ticket  is what is needed Right now?

I don't think millions of dems are saying "defund the police"....but I do know that people that refer to "defund the police" do not tend to understand what it means.

Are you saying that the millions of people in the streets are not likely dem voters? Are you also saying that the people saying defund the police don’t understand that it means defunding their budget and reallocating funds for measures like community housing and mental health etc?  I think that anyone out in those streets saying defund the police knows exactly what it means. I also think that all of us that have spent time there are much more likely to vote D than R.

  Basically I’m not understanding what you are saying, maybe we agree.  To me putting a cop on the ballot is a sure fire way to really turn off voters.  Why have a law and order ticket? Isn’t that what the republicans are for?  I mean if people want a “tough on crime” ticket there is already an option for that.  Why should we try to appease republicans?

When someone predisposed to teh 'law and order' mindset hears 'defund the police', they think about eliminating law enforcement.  That's neither politically tenable or wise.  There are real life criminals out there and we need real life police, detectives, forensics and everything else.  Defund means eliminate funding, not reduce, not reallocate, not change the mindset.  So the rallying cry is a trap for liberals.  

mrussel1

Biden

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

I guess because it doesn’t say she has safely been making incremental change in the halls of Congress for 30+ years?  Seems to be a hot qualifier.  Personally I think she’d be great. Nobody’s perfect.

but she articulates that very point very well.

did you take the time to hear the podcast? Maron replays a segment with Obama that sets the table

I think she would be great.  I was being  either facetious or sarcastic. Not sure which.  Trying to state that to some people she isn’t an old reliable safe democrat hand and that can be a turn off for a lot of centrists or whatever they call themselves.

FTR, Demings didn't take office in the House until 2017, so she's not exactly an entrenched Washington insider. She's a retired police chief.  I'm sure the OPD has their share of issues, like every other department, but having her could protect the right flank for Biden on the Defund calls.  

static111

Biden

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

potential running mate for Biden.  Good to hear her in this format...

http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1130-stacey-abrams

She comes across as smart and a decent person. But her highest office is state legislator in a state that will most likely vote republican without much of a battle.

I’d prefer someone more battle tested and a stronger resume.

Val Demings is a much stronger candidate. As former Police Chief of Orlando she has the perfect background and hometown for a 2020 presidential campaign. She is a talented communicator, as is Abrams, but comes across as tough but fair with the perfect experience in the current political climate.

Agreed...I realize the experience argument is somewhat out the door given the tRump victory but the VP needs to be ready on day 1.  I like Abrams but, even though she may be ready?, her background doesn't suggest it.

Demings would be huge with the black vote....and it will be hard for tRump to paint Biden as anti-police with her on the ticket.  Plus the FL connection.

With a large portion of the base calling to defund the police I don’t see how a police candidate would be a good thing.  Am I missing something or is she like the Greatest nicest never had a wrongful death on her watch cop?  Millions of dem voters out saying defund the police and people really think a cop Ticket  is what is needed Right now?

I don't think millions of dems are saying "defund the police"....but I do know that people that refer to "defund the police" do not tend to understand what it means.

Are you saying that the millions of people in the streets are not likely dem voters? Are you also saying that the people saying defund the police don’t understand that it means defunding their budget and reallocating funds for measures like community housing and mental health etc?  I think that anyone out in those streets saying defund the police knows exactly what it means. I also think that all of us that have spent time there are much more likely to vote D than R.

  Basically I’m not understanding what you are saying, maybe we agree.  To me putting a cop on the ballot is a sure fire way to really turn off voters.  Why have a law and order ticket? Isn’t that what the republicans are for?  I mean if people want a “tough on crime” ticket there is already an option for that.  Why should we try to appease republicans?

When someone predisposed to teh 'law and order' mindset hears 'defund the police', they think about eliminating law enforcement.  That's neither politically tenable or wise.  There are real life criminals out there and we need real life police, detectives, forensics and everything else.  Defund means eliminate funding, not reduce, not reallocate, not change the mindset.  So the rallying cry is a trap for liberals.  

Do you believe that the defund movement means eliminating funding and abolishing police?  I’ve had enough conversations with you to think you know better.  Or Are you more or less saying the thoughts of uninformed people when they hear defund the police brings about images of lawlessness etc and scares them?  The movement is for a large scale defunding and reallocation of funds from the grossly bloated police budgets to more community services, so that actual cops, forensic experts, and detectives can work on real crime and not be the catch all for any time someone feels like they might need to call the cops for suspected minor misdemeanors.  Saying that defunding the police means eliminating funding and eliminating law enforcement really plays into the republican led narrative imo. Defund the Police is a much clearer call to arms than lets reallocate funds and tinker with the system and let the police continue to monitor themselves once we establish bipartisan agreed reforms imo.

static111

Biden

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

I guess because it doesn’t say she has safely been making incremental change in the halls of Congress for 30+ years?  Seems to be a hot qualifier.  Personally I think she’d be great. Nobody’s perfect.

but she articulates that very point very well.

did you take the time to hear the podcast? Maron replays a segment with Obama that sets the table

I think she would be great.  I was being  either facetious or sarcastic. Not sure which.  Trying to state that to some people she isn’t an old reliable safe democrat hand and that can be a turn off for a lot of centrists or whatever they call themselves.

FTR, Demings didn't take office in the House until 2017, so she's not exactly an entrenched Washington insider. She's a retired police chief.  I'm sure the OPD has their share of issues, like every other department, but having her could protect the right flank for Biden on the Defund calls.  

Do we really think the right flank is what will decide the outcome of this election? If so are we really a liberal party if we play and pander to conservatives?

mrussel1

Biden

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

static111 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

potential running mate for Biden.  Good to hear her in this format...

http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1130-stacey-abrams

She comes across as smart and a decent person. But her highest office is state legislator in a state that will most likely vote republican without much of a battle.

I’d prefer someone more battle tested and a stronger resume.

Val Demings is a much stronger candidate. As former Police Chief of Orlando she has the perfect background and hometown for a 2020 presidential campaign. She is a talented communicator, as is Abrams, but comes across as tough but fair with the perfect experience in the current political climate.

Agreed...I realize the experience argument is somewhat out the door given the tRump victory but the VP needs to be ready on day 1.  I like Abrams but, even though she may be ready?, her background doesn't suggest it.

Demings would be huge with the black vote....and it will be hard for tRump to paint Biden as anti-police with her on the ticket.  Plus the FL connection.

With a large portion of the base calling to defund the police I don’t see how a police candidate would be a good thing.  Am I missing something or is she like the Greatest nicest never had a wrongful death on her watch cop?  Millions of dem voters out saying defund the police and people really think a cop Ticket  is what is needed Right now?

I don't think millions of dems are saying "defund the police"....but I do know that people that refer to "defund the police" do not tend to understand what it means.

Are you saying that the millions of people in the streets are not likely dem voters? Are you also saying that the people saying defund the police don’t understand that it means defunding their budget and reallocating funds for measures like community housing and mental health etc?  I think that anyone out in those streets saying defund the police knows exactly what it means. I also think that all of us that have spent time there are much more likely to vote D than R.

  Basically I’m not understanding what you are saying, maybe we agree.  To me putting a cop on the ballot is a sure fire way to really turn off voters.  Why have a law and order ticket? Isn’t that what the republicans are for?  I mean if people want a “tough on crime” ticket there is already an option for that.  Why should we try to appease republicans?

When someone predisposed to teh 'law and order' mindset hears 'defund the police', they think about eliminating law enforcement.  That's neither politically tenable or wise.  There are real life criminals out there and we need real life police, detectives, forensics and everything else.  Defund means eliminate funding, not reduce, not reallocate, not change the mindset.  So the rallying cry is a trap for liberals.  

Do you believe that the defund movement means eliminating funding and abolishing police?  I’ve had enough conversations with you to think you know better.  Or Are you more or less saying the thoughts of uninformed people when they hear defund the police brings about images of lawlessness etc and scares them?  The movement is for a large scale defunding and reallocation of funds from the grossly bloated police budgets to more community services, so that actual cops, forensic experts, and detectives can work on real crime and not be the catch all for any time someone feels like they might need to call the cops for suspected minor misdemeanors.  Saying that defunding the police means eliminating funding and eliminating law enforcement really plays into the republican led narrative imo. Defund the Police is a much clearer call to arms than lets reallocate funds and tinker with the system and let the police continue to monitor themselves once we establish bipartisan agreed reforms imo.

I know what it means, but the saying is tailor made to be manipulated by the right towards the uninformed.  You don't create a motto that is both impossible and frightening to the people to the right of us, but who may also be left enough to vote for Biden.  Defund is not clearer from a marketing standpoint, because defund does not mean reduce, it means eliminate.  Biden, Pelosi and Schumer have all had to come out and say they are not for defunding the police.  However, if you asked them if we should 1. stop militarizing the police by letting the Pentagon sell surplus, reallocate dollars into community resources and retrain police to be community members and advocates, I'm fairly certain they would say YES!  But they could not be on record for defunding for the obvious political reasons.  

mrussel1

Biden

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

So what in this makes Abrams not have the stuff?

1995 Abrams earned a Bachelor of Arts in interdisciplinary studies (political science, economics and sociology) from Spelman College, magna cum laude.[1] While in college she worked in the youth services department in the office of Atlanta mayor Maynard Jackson.[7] She later interned at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[7] As a freshman in 1992, Abrams took part in a protest on the steps of the Georgia Capitol, during which she joined in burning the state flag. At that time Georgia's state flag incorporated the Confederate battle flag, which had been added to the state flag in 1956 as an anti-civil rights movement action. The flag was designed by Southern Democrat John Sammons Bell, an attorney and Chair of the Democratic Party of Georgia who was an outspoken supporter of segregation.[8][9]

As a Harry S. Truman Scholar, Abrams studied public policy at the University of Texas at Austin's LBJ School of Public Affairs, where she earned a Master of Public Affairs degree in 1998. In 1999 she earned a Juris Doctor from Yale Law School.[1]

I guess because it doesn’t say she has safely been making incremental change in the halls of Congress for 30+ years?  Seems to be a hot qualifier.  Personally I think she’d be great. Nobody’s perfect.

but she articulates that very point very well.

did you take the time to hear the podcast? Maron replays a segment with Obama that sets the table

I think she would be great.  I was being  either facetious or sarcastic. Not sure which.  Trying to state that to some people she isn’t an old reliable safe democrat hand and that can be a turn off for a lot of centrists or whatever they call themselves.

FTR, Demings didn't take office in the House until 2017, so she's not exactly an entrenched Washington insider. She's a retired police chief.  I'm sure the OPD has their share of issues, like every other department, but having her could protect the right flank for Biden on the Defund calls.  

Do we really think the right flank is what will decide the outcome of this election? If so are we really a liberal party if we play and pander to conservatives?

I think the flank to the right of us is important in the outcome of the election, particularly in WI, MI and PA.  I'm not talking about Trump supporters, I'm talking about independents, suburban moms, apolitical people, etc.  It's important that the party is pro-reform but not anti-police.  That's where we need to be to win.