10C tickets on stubhub

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  • mpedone
    mpedone 540xxx - Manchester, NH Posts: 1,961
    ecdanc said:
    mpedone said:
    IlliniGuy76 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mpedone said:
    Lowlight said:
    gettingright said:
    People do get caught. The ex-husband of someone I work with got booted several years ago trying to sell wrigley takes over face. I don’t know they got caught, just that they did and had tickets revoked and received a lifetime ban. 

    So it happens.

    I am curious, however, how the state law may or may not trump the 10C policy tickets can’t be sold over face value. Like if someone in NY or CO sells over face, gets caught and has tickets revoked, and then sues 10C for their action, who would win?
    10C.  When you sign up for membership you are entering into a contract with 10C and agree to the rules - one of which is you cannot sell over face.

    The state law protects anyone who transfers tickets, meaning Ticketmaster can not prevent those tickets from being transferred, but does not trump 10C revoking your membership and tickets if you void the contract.

    Not to mention, while NY state law mandates that tickets be transferable, there are still laws on the books regarding scalping. I believe the law in NY is that any sale over 10% above face value is considered scalping and can be punished.
    Not any longer
    THIS
    Stubhub and other third party resale sites wouldn't be in existence if State Law allowed for prosecutors to go over people selling tickets on their platform.  
    Yeah, looking more into this, it looks like the law is still on the books (maybe), but doesn't apply to StubHub because they're a "licensed reseller"? On their site, they do say that if you're selling tickets, you are "responsible for complying with applicable ticket resale laws", but I'm having trouble determining exactly what those are in regards to pricing. From what I read, resellers aren't allowed to charge a "premium" but can charge for "services".

    I'm going to take the safe route and assume I was wrong about everything.
    There have been no limits on secondary ticket markup in New York since 2007. https://ag.ny.gov/pdfs/Ticket_Sales_Report.pdf

    Wow. So I was even more wrong than I thought.
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  • ecdanc
    ecdanc Posts: 1,814
    mpedone said:
    ecdanc said:
    mpedone said:
    IlliniGuy76 said:
    ecdanc said:
    mpedone said:
    Lowlight said:
    gettingright said:
    People do get caught. The ex-husband of someone I work with got booted several years ago trying to sell wrigley takes over face. I don’t know they got caught, just that they did and had tickets revoked and received a lifetime ban. 

    So it happens.

    I am curious, however, how the state law may or may not trump the 10C policy tickets can’t be sold over face value. Like if someone in NY or CO sells over face, gets caught and has tickets revoked, and then sues 10C for their action, who would win?
    10C.  When you sign up for membership you are entering into a contract with 10C and agree to the rules - one of which is you cannot sell over face.

    The state law protects anyone who transfers tickets, meaning Ticketmaster can not prevent those tickets from being transferred, but does not trump 10C revoking your membership and tickets if you void the contract.

    Not to mention, while NY state law mandates that tickets be transferable, there are still laws on the books regarding scalping. I believe the law in NY is that any sale over 10% above face value is considered scalping and can be punished.
    Not any longer
    THIS
    Stubhub and other third party resale sites wouldn't be in existence if State Law allowed for prosecutors to go over people selling tickets on their platform.  
    Yeah, looking more into this, it looks like the law is still on the books (maybe), but doesn't apply to StubHub because they're a "licensed reseller"? On their site, they do say that if you're selling tickets, you are "responsible for complying with applicable ticket resale laws", but I'm having trouble determining exactly what those are in regards to pricing. From what I read, resellers aren't allowed to charge a "premium" but can charge for "services".

    I'm going to take the safe route and assume I was wrong about everything.
    There have been no limits on secondary ticket markup in New York since 2007. https://ag.ny.gov/pdfs/Ticket_Sales_Report.pdf

    Wow. So I was even more wrong than I thought.
    No worries. I remain surprised (annoyed?) by the direction the laws have gone. So it goes. 
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    SJ54844 said:
    Lowlight said:
    gettingright said:
    People do get caught. The ex-husband of someone I work with got booted several years ago trying to sell wrigley takes over face. I don’t know they got caught, just that they did and had tickets revoked and received a lifetime ban. 

    So it happens.

    I am curious, however, how the state law may or may not trump the 10C policy tickets can’t be sold over face value. Like if someone in NY or CO sells over face, gets caught and has tickets revoked, and then sues 10C for their action, who would win?
    10C.  When you sign up for membership you are entering into a contract with 10C and agree to the rules - one of which is you cannot sell over face.

    The state law protects anyone who transfers tickets, meaning Ticketmaster can not prevent those tickets from being transferred, but does not trump 10C revoking your membership and tickets if you void the contract.
    What happens if you transfer your 10c for face using F2F or cashortrade.org then the next person sells those 10c seats for over face value, what happens then? Kind of worried about that. Obviously only possible for Denver and MSG shows.  I am trying to sell mine to a friend so I don’t get caught up with someone abusing the rules on my original tickets. 
    There would be a record of  you selling on F2F or anywhere else. Just show your receipt that shows you sold for face and you’d be fine.
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,879
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 

    Many of these are seats in the 200s row 16 and higher.

    This seems to indicate they are 10c burner accounts. Poor seat location = high membership number.

    They pay the $20 for a few years and unload a pair for $1000. 

    Membership gets deleted. Rinse wash repeat. Membership dues driving up ticket prices.
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 

    Many of these are seats in the 200s row 16 and higher.

    This seems to indicate they are 10c burner accounts. Poor seat location = high membership number.

    They pay the $20 for a few years and unload a pair for $1000. 

    Membership gets deleted. Rinse wash repeat. Membership dues driving up ticket prices.
    This is happening for sure and not sure how 10 club can combat this with the NY laws. 
  • RP112579
    RP112579 Tinley Park, IL Posts: 3,388
    PJNB said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 

    Many of these are seats in the 200s row 16 and higher.

    This seems to indicate they are 10c burner accounts. Poor seat location = high membership number.

    They pay the $20 for a few years and unload a pair for $1000. 

    Membership gets deleted. Rinse wash repeat. Membership dues driving up ticket prices.
    This is happening for sure and not sure how 10 club can combat this with the NY laws. 
    You already know he's going to tell you that they could combat it by playing 25 shows at MSG.
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  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,879
    PJNB said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 

    Many of these are seats in the 200s row 16 and higher.

    This seems to indicate they are 10c burner accounts. Poor seat location = high membership number.

    They pay the $20 for a few years and unload a pair for $1000. 

    Membership gets deleted. Rinse wash repeat. Membership dues driving up ticket prices.
    This is happening for sure and not sure how 10 club can combat this with the NY laws. 

    Cant it happen anywhere with a burner TM and 10c accounts? There are tickets for the other USA shows available on broker sites, just not on SH.
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    Lerxst1992 said:
    PJNB said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 

    Many of these are seats in the 200s row 16 and higher.

    This seems to indicate they are 10c burner accounts. Poor seat location = high membership number.

    They pay the $20 for a few years and unload a pair for $1000. 

    Membership gets deleted. Rinse wash repeat. Membership dues driving up ticket prices.
    This is happening for sure and not sure how 10 club can combat this with the NY laws. 

    Cant it happen anywhere with a burner TM and 10c accounts? There are tickets for the other USA shows available on broker sites, just not on SH.
    Yes it can but the ease of Stub Hub and the huge demand for shows in MSG it makes it a lot worse for those that are trying to get 10 Club tickets and actually want to go to the show. People on the outside are going to see these scalping prices this tour and its only going to get worse imo. 
  • Clapper
    Clapper Toronto Posts: 209
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 


    I may be looking at it through rose coloured glasses as someone who 10C MSG tickets but if lets say 500 tickets end up on Stub Hub, that's like 2.5% of the 20k seat capacity at MSG.   Considering the demand for the show, local laws and the size of the market, I feel like 2.5% is a win for us as fans and for the system that put in place. 
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  • whitepants
    whitepants Posts: 729
    I really do feel bad for NYC fans. That is just so wrong. I live in LA now, so thankfully we don't have that re-sell problem. 

    I'm just grateful I saw PJ at MSG in '98 and at Jones Beach in '00. If the LORD wants me to see them in NY again in the future, SHE will make it happen.  ;)
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  • gotthebottle
    gotthebottle San Diego Posts: 3,766
    PJNB said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 

    Many of these are seats in the 200s row 16 and higher.

    This seems to indicate they are 10c burner accounts. Poor seat location = high membership number.

    They pay the $20 for a few years and unload a pair for $1000. 

    Membership gets deleted. Rinse wash repeat. Membership dues driving up ticket prices.
    This is happening for sure and not sure how 10 club can combat this with the NY laws. 
    As per 10C rules for not reselling over face...they could cancel these seats on StubHub and redistribute to accounts that didn't win?
  • tdawe
    tdawe Posts: 2,091
    Clapper said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 


    I may be looking at it through rose coloured glasses as someone who 10C MSG tickets but if lets say 500 tickets end up on Stub Hub, that's like 2.5% of the 20k seat capacity at MSG.   Considering the demand for the show, local laws and the size of the market, I feel like 2.5% is a win for us as fans and for the system that put in place. 
    I agree with this. Of course I hope the club does whatever it can to police/defeat scalpers who are infiltrating the club lotteries, but on the whole it sure does look like most of the tickets ended up in the right hands. That's frustrating for people who are on the outside looking in - if you're looking for tickets for MSG but are uncomfortable with the current StubHub prices, you should be rooting for more members to list their tickets, and if you're looking for tickets for any of the non-NY/CO shows you're arguable in even worse shape - but hopefully it will make for some killer shows.
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  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,879
    Clapper said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 


    I may be looking at it through rose coloured glasses as someone who 10C MSG tickets but if lets say 500 tickets end up on Stub Hub, that's like 2.5% of the 20k seat capacity at MSG.   Considering the demand for the show, local laws and the size of the market, I feel like 2.5% is a win for us as fans and for the system that put in place. 


    2 other area shows, MCR and Lumineers, one has 1200 and the other has about 900 tickets.

    So yes its keeping a few hundred off of SH but the ones on there are so expensive, it has the possibility of bad publicity.

    Extraordinary measures are keeping some tickets off but the various ticket policy restrictions are creating margins that are so good it's going to keep attracting the most resourceful scalpers.
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,879
    edited February 2020
    gotthebottle said:
    PJNB said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 

    Many of these are seats in the 200s row 16 and higher.

    This seems to indicate they are 10c burner accounts. Poor seat location = high membership number.

    They pay the $20 for a few years and unload a pair for $1000. 

    Membership gets deleted. Rinse wash repeat. Membership dues driving up ticket prices.
    This is happening for sure and not sure how 10 club can combat this with the NY laws. 
    As per 10C rules for not reselling over face...they could cancel these seats on StubHub and redistribute to accounts that didn't win?

    They could but I would guess the scalpers will distribute the TM login info day of show to protect the buyer's access and their profit. Since the seller is not sending an actual ticket to the buyer this could complicate tracking down the scalped ticket.

    Edit, 

    Actually the rules are that membership will be revoked so for NYC and CO there is nothing they can do to stop the sale? 
    Post edited by Lerxst1992 on
  • gettingright
    gettingright Posts: 550
    edited February 2020
    PJNB said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 

    Many of these are seats in the 200s row 16 and higher.

    This seems to indicate they are 10c burner accounts. Poor seat location = high membership number.

    They pay the $20 for a few years and unload a pair for $1000. 

    Membership gets deleted. Rinse wash repeat. Membership dues driving up ticket prices.
    This is happening for sure and not sure how 10 club can combat this with the NY laws. 
    One membership per household; or a multi-step verification process; must be a member 6 months in advance of shows. 
    Post edited by gettingright on
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  • detemaster3
    detemaster3 Posts: 13
    It is wild that amount of tickets for sale on StubHub for NYC show on 3/30 on Thursday was at 289. Then it went up to 563 after everyone started to find out their seating locations. Must just be a strange coincidence I'm sure.. :|
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,221
    detemaster3 said:
    It is wild that amount of tickets for sale on StubHub for NYC show on 3/30 on Thursday was at 289. Then it went up to 563 after everyone started to find out their seating locations. Must just be a strange coincidence I'm sure.. :|
    Coincidence confirmed. Def nothing to do with anything specifically 
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    PJNB said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 

    Many of these are seats in the 200s row 16 and higher.

    This seems to indicate they are 10c burner accounts. Poor seat location = high membership number.

    They pay the $20 for a few years and unload a pair for $1000. 

    Membership gets deleted. Rinse wash repeat. Membership dues driving up ticket prices.
    This is happening for sure and not sure how 10 club can combat this with the NY laws. 
    Not release ticket info until the day of or day before the show for states with transfer laws. Would make everyone think twice about putting in for those shows too if they knew they were going to be harder to sell.
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    mace1229 said:
    PJNB said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 

    Many of these are seats in the 200s row 16 and higher.

    This seems to indicate they are 10c burner accounts. Poor seat location = high membership number.

    They pay the $20 for a few years and unload a pair for $1000. 

    Membership gets deleted. Rinse wash repeat. Membership dues driving up ticket prices.
    This is happening for sure and not sure how 10 club can combat this with the NY laws. 
    Not release ticket info until the day of or day before the show for states with transfer laws. Would make everyone think twice about putting in for those shows too if they knew they were going to be harder to sell.
    Are they able to do that? I remember 2016 they mailed out, for a price, hard tickets and still had willcall the day of. Just curious if there is a date that says they have to be transferable before a show or if the day of or day before is good enough.
  • ecdanc
    ecdanc Posts: 1,814
    gotthebottle said:
    PJNB said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    In addition to all the 10c GA tickets on stubhub, about 350 tickets landed there on friday, the same day 10c seat locations were distributed 

    Many of these are seats in the 200s row 16 and higher.

    This seems to indicate they are 10c burner accounts. Poor seat location = high membership number.

    They pay the $20 for a few years and unload a pair for $1000. 

    Membership gets deleted. Rinse wash repeat. Membership dues driving up ticket prices.
    This is happening for sure and not sure how 10 club can combat this with the NY laws. 
    As per 10C rules for not reselling over face...they could cancel these seats on StubHub and redistribute to accounts that didn't win?
    I'm not entirely sure, but I'd guess doing so is illegal. 

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