All things Transgender related
Comments
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C'mon, man. That's so tired. I fully admit I'm imperfect and I strive to learn new things every day. At the top of my list of things to learn is "how can I treat marginalized people better." If you're going to use my imperfection as an excuse for you not learning...well, there's not much I can do. In my experience, people who say they want to understand better are rarely serious. I'd hoped you were an exception.HughFreakingDillon said:
well then, I will say again: let us all know when you've sufficiently educated yourself on every single social ill on the planet. then we'll talk.ecdanc said:
Not really. When I say "during the latter part of my schooling and once I begin my job" I don't mean to suggest these things were part of my formal education. By that point, everything was independent research, so....yeah, I did learn about it on my own. Not so much during my "free time," but while shaping my identity as a scholar and a teacher.HughFreakingDillon said:
so you were taught, you didn't take responsibility as a human to learn about it yourself in your free time.ecdanc said:
Why does everyone have to agree?mickeyrat said:ecdanc said:
I am not trans.mickeyrat said:Who here is trans?so how did you come to learn what you have been beating people over the head with. And dont try to deny that FACT.prior to gaining this knowledge , what were your thoughts on this subject?how long was the transition from one thought plane to the other?I'm guessing for most here it's a subject we hadnt needed to think much on. However, since some more recent acceptance surrounding the lives of gay people, room has now been carved out for such conversations. Within that there will a fair amount of misspeaking (based on older ideas not malintent) until we come established language we ALL agree on. So until we can come understand this language set, how about you look at turning the volume down, especially on the accusations and labeling. It isnt helpful to furthering the discussion and our newly learned understanding of this subject and the issues surrounding it. Its new to us.Browbeating may not be the intention but it surely is the result. And intentions are irrelevant in the face of the result.
I have apologized and attempted to modulate my tone for precisely the reason that closes your post.
As for your questions, I was previous ignorant, yes--would never deny that. I grew up in a very insulated, very white, very religious place, so I previously held abhorrent views. I learned about these issues during the latter part of my schooling and once I began my job. None of those answers obviate the responsibility of every individual to do everything within their power to treat trans people with respect from this moment forward.0 -
Let's discuss the topic and not each other please.
Falling down,...not staying down0 -
Hugh isn't lambasting you for your imperfection.ecdanc said:
C'mon, man. That's so tired. I fully admit I'm imperfect and I strive to learn new things every day. At the top of my list of things to learn is "how can I treat marginalized people better." If you're going to use my imperfection as an excuse for you not learning...well, there's not much I can do. In my experience, people who say they want to understand better are rarely serious. I'd hoped you were an exception.HughFreakingDillon said:
well then, I will say again: let us all know when you've sufficiently educated yourself on every single social ill on the planet. then we'll talk.ecdanc said:
Not really. When I say "during the latter part of my schooling and once I begin my job" I don't mean to suggest these things were part of my formal education. By that point, everything was independent research, so....yeah, I did learn about it on my own. Not so much during my "free time," but while shaping my identity as a scholar and a teacher.HughFreakingDillon said:
so you were taught, you didn't take responsibility as a human to learn about it yourself in your free time.ecdanc said:
Why does everyone have to agree?mickeyrat said:ecdanc said:
I am not trans.mickeyrat said:Who here is trans?so how did you come to learn what you have been beating people over the head with. And dont try to deny that FACT.prior to gaining this knowledge , what were your thoughts on this subject?how long was the transition from one thought plane to the other?I'm guessing for most here it's a subject we hadnt needed to think much on. However, since some more recent acceptance surrounding the lives of gay people, room has now been carved out for such conversations. Within that there will a fair amount of misspeaking (based on older ideas not malintent) until we come established language we ALL agree on. So until we can come understand this language set, how about you look at turning the volume down, especially on the accusations and labeling. It isnt helpful to furthering the discussion and our newly learned understanding of this subject and the issues surrounding it. Its new to us.Browbeating may not be the intention but it surely is the result. And intentions are irrelevant in the face of the result.
I have apologized and attempted to modulate my tone for precisely the reason that closes your post.
As for your questions, I was previous ignorant, yes--would never deny that. I grew up in a very insulated, very white, very religious place, so I previously held abhorrent views. I learned about these issues during the latter part of my schooling and once I began my job. None of those answers obviate the responsibility of every individual to do everything within their power to treat trans people with respect from this moment forward.0 -
I JUST explained why I think your hit and run with a 1 sentence comment was wrong.ecdanc said:
Do you really want to understand? I literally JUST explained to you why his comments troubled me. I did not blast him at all; I corrected him. I'm happy to explain in more detail why what he said is problematic, but I don't think you want to hear.cincybearcat said:
Honestly I would love to have some open discussions on this. I feel like a supporter, but I know there are parts of the issue I do not understand and likely do not talk about correctly. I always find it disheartening when people trying to get people to understand thinks they already should understand 100%.gimmesometruth27 said:PC Principal is going to stifle discussion on this topic, so i'm out.hippiemom = goodness0 -
.Post edited by Spunkie onI was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef
Animals were hiding behind the Coral
Except for little Turtle
I could swear he's trying to talk to me
Gurgle Gurgle0 -
You really read a lot into it. I’ll be very specific for you...ecdanc said:
See, this is the thing: your default position is "I already know this." That's not the sign of someone who wants to learn.cincybearcat said:
I don't need you to help me on that one I got it. He called the women his daughter. You nitpicked a sentence where he wasn't saying what you think he was saying. You aren't a help in this discussion it seems.ecdanc said:
Do you really want to understand? I literally JUST explained to you why his comments troubled me. I did not blast him at all; I corrected him. I'm happy to explain in more detail why what he said is problematic, but I don't think you want to hear.cincybearcat said:
Honestly I would love to have some open discussions on this. I feel like a supporter, but I know there are parts of the issue I do not understand and likely do not talk about correctly. I always find it disheartening when people trying to get people to understand thinks they already should understand 100%.gimmesometruth27 said:PC Principal is going to stifle discussion on this topic, so i'm out.
I don’t need your help in understanding that a trans person wants to be called “daughter” and not “son” if they are a trans women... I guess I could use your help in if saying trans woman is ok as I wasn’t really sure what term to use.hippiemom = goodness0 -
Yes, that’s an appropriate construction. It’s covered in that link I posted.cincybearcat said:
You really read a lot into it. I’ll be very specific for you...ecdanc said:
See, this is the thing: your default position is "I already know this." That's not the sign of someone who wants to learn.cincybearcat said:
I don't need you to help me on that one I got it. He called the women his daughter. You nitpicked a sentence where he wasn't saying what you think he was saying. You aren't a help in this discussion it seems.ecdanc said:
Do you really want to understand? I literally JUST explained to you why his comments troubled me. I did not blast him at all; I corrected him. I'm happy to explain in more detail why what he said is problematic, but I don't think you want to hear.cincybearcat said:
Honestly I would love to have some open discussions on this. I feel like a supporter, but I know there are parts of the issue I do not understand and likely do not talk about correctly. I always find it disheartening when people trying to get people to understand thinks they already should understand 100%.gimmesometruth27 said:PC Principal is going to stifle discussion on this topic, so i'm out.
I don’t need your help in understanding that a trans person wants to be called “daughter” and not “son” if they are a trans women... I guess I could use your help in if saying trans woman is ok as I wasn’t really sure what term to use.
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Nice!!tish said:I recall being interviewed by a newsperson when carrying a flag for EGALE in Vancouver's Pride Parade. The reporter asked if their was an air of celebration as this was the first year after the definition of marriage was changed from "between man and a woman" to "between two persons". The year prior, we were still petitioning and getting signatures to change marriage legislation. I told the lady that I would not be satisfied and celebrating until transgendered persons were included in BC's human rights, which eventually changed in 2016. I always wish I had replied to her: "Well, as a woman, do you celebrate your right to vote?"0 -
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Post edited by Spunkie onI was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef
Animals were hiding behind the Coral
Except for little Turtle
I could swear he's trying to talk to me
Gurgle Gurgle0 -
the reason I am here is to learn. that is literally why I come here. but your admonishing of everyone else reeks of arrogance and hypocrisy. it is simply unrealistic to expect everyone to research the plight of every social ill there is. just because this one is important to you, in no way means that the ones are important to me are any less important.ecdanc said:
C'mon, man. That's so tired. I fully admit I'm imperfect and I strive to learn new things every day. At the top of my list of things to learn is "how can I treat marginalized people better." If you're going to use my imperfection as an excuse for you not learning...well, there's not much I can do. In my experience, people who say they want to understand better are rarely serious. I'd hoped you were an exception.HughFreakingDillon said:
well then, I will say again: let us all know when you've sufficiently educated yourself on every single social ill on the planet. then we'll talk.ecdanc said:
Not really. When I say "during the latter part of my schooling and once I begin my job" I don't mean to suggest these things were part of my formal education. By that point, everything was independent research, so....yeah, I did learn about it on my own. Not so much during my "free time," but while shaping my identity as a scholar and a teacher.HughFreakingDillon said:
so you were taught, you didn't take responsibility as a human to learn about it yourself in your free time.ecdanc said:
Why does everyone have to agree?mickeyrat said:ecdanc said:
I am not trans.mickeyrat said:Who here is trans?so how did you come to learn what you have been beating people over the head with. And dont try to deny that FACT.prior to gaining this knowledge , what were your thoughts on this subject?how long was the transition from one thought plane to the other?I'm guessing for most here it's a subject we hadnt needed to think much on. However, since some more recent acceptance surrounding the lives of gay people, room has now been carved out for such conversations. Within that there will a fair amount of misspeaking (based on older ideas not malintent) until we come established language we ALL agree on. So until we can come understand this language set, how about you look at turning the volume down, especially on the accusations and labeling. It isnt helpful to furthering the discussion and our newly learned understanding of this subject and the issues surrounding it. Its new to us.Browbeating may not be the intention but it surely is the result. And intentions are irrelevant in the face of the result.
I have apologized and attempted to modulate my tone for precisely the reason that closes your post.
As for your questions, I was previous ignorant, yes--would never deny that. I grew up in a very insulated, very white, very religious place, so I previously held abhorrent views. I learned about these issues during the latter part of my schooling and once I began my job. None of those answers obviate the responsibility of every individual to do everything within their power to treat trans people with respect from this moment forward.
i sat on saturday night and listened to an aboriginal two spirited trans woman. she didn't berate everyone for not knowing everything there is to know about trans issues, nor did she stand there in indignation of everyone. she stood there, humble, shy, and spoke about her own plight and the issues she has had to face over her 69 years on this earth.
THAT's how advocacy and education happen. not by the smug expectation of "learn it yourself".By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
So - when raising a child gender neutral, what does that mean exactly?ecdanc said:
We use “they” for our child, who we are raising gender neutraltish said:People are starting to sign emails like this:
Tish Lovely, BA, BEd, (she, her, hers). "They" is used typically if unknown.hippiemom = goodness0 -
.Post edited by Spunkie onI was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef
Animals were hiding behind the Coral
Except for little Turtle
I could swear he's trying to talk to me
Gurgle Gurgle0 -
Treating our child as if they do not have a gender until they identify.cincybearcat said:0 -
Very tough after many years I bet.tish said:Yes, and thankfully educators are being taught not to use "boys" and "girls", which is hard NOT to say in a class!
Did you all see the Grammys? I can’t remember who it was but they said something like “ladies and gentlemen and those who have yet to decide”...hippiemom = goodness0 -
no judgment, just a question: don't you think that in and of itself could be wildly confusing for a kid?ecdanc said:
Treating our child as if they do not have a gender until they identify.cincybearcat said:By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Children are neat, too, in that of four young ones in my family ALL have a 'ALL', sexual orientation. I missed that part, but cool of them.I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef
Animals were hiding behind the Coral
Except for little Turtle
I could swear he's trying to talk to me
Gurgle Gurgle0 -
You just keep placing the onus on others. I’m suggesting you take initiative. Surely it can be, at least, a mix of the two.HughFreakingDillon said:
the reason I am here is to learn. that is literally why I come here. but your admonishing of everyone else reeks of arrogance and hypocrisy. it is simply unrealistic to expect everyone to research the plight of every social ill there is. just because this one is important to you, in no way means that the ones are important to me are any less important.ecdanc said:
C'mon, man. That's so tired. I fully admit I'm imperfect and I strive to learn new things every day. At the top of my list of things to learn is "how can I treat marginalized people better." If you're going to use my imperfection as an excuse for you not learning...well, there's not much I can do. In my experience, people who say they want to understand better are rarely serious. I'd hoped you were an exception.HughFreakingDillon said:
well then, I will say again: let us all know when you've sufficiently educated yourself on every single social ill on the planet. then we'll talk.ecdanc said:
Not really. When I say "during the latter part of my schooling and once I begin my job" I don't mean to suggest these things were part of my formal education. By that point, everything was independent research, so....yeah, I did learn about it on my own. Not so much during my "free time," but while shaping my identity as a scholar and a teacher.HughFreakingDillon said:
so you were taught, you didn't take responsibility as a human to learn about it yourself in your free time.ecdanc said:
Why does everyone have to agree?mickeyrat said:ecdanc said:
I am not trans.mickeyrat said:Who here is trans?so how did you come to learn what you have been beating people over the head with. And dont try to deny that FACT.prior to gaining this knowledge , what were your thoughts on this subject?how long was the transition from one thought plane to the other?I'm guessing for most here it's a subject we hadnt needed to think much on. However, since some more recent acceptance surrounding the lives of gay people, room has now been carved out for such conversations. Within that there will a fair amount of misspeaking (based on older ideas not malintent) until we come established language we ALL agree on. So until we can come understand this language set, how about you look at turning the volume down, especially on the accusations and labeling. It isnt helpful to furthering the discussion and our newly learned understanding of this subject and the issues surrounding it. Its new to us.Browbeating may not be the intention but it surely is the result. And intentions are irrelevant in the face of the result.
I have apologized and attempted to modulate my tone for precisely the reason that closes your post.
As for your questions, I was previous ignorant, yes--would never deny that. I grew up in a very insulated, very white, very religious place, so I previously held abhorrent views. I learned about these issues during the latter part of my schooling and once I began my job. None of those answers obviate the responsibility of every individual to do everything within their power to treat trans people with respect from this moment forward.
i sat on saturday night and listened to an aboriginal two spirited trans woman. she didn't berate everyone for not knowing everything there is to know about trans issues, nor did she stand there in indignation of everyone. she stood there, humble, shy, and spoke about her own plight and the issues she has had to face over her 69 years on this earth.
THAT's how advocacy and education happen. not by the smug expectation of "learn it yourself".0 -
How will your child 'identify'? What's the moment?ecdanc said:
Treating our child as if they do not have a gender until they identify.cincybearcat said:
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