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oftenreading said:HughFreakingDillon said:ecdanc said:dignin said:ecdanc said:HughFreakingDillon said:i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak".
second, i guess we can tell all those people out there transitioning at age 17, 22, 35, 47, and 69, that they are well behind the curve of modern 3 year olds.
I think this and similar posts show a lack of understanding of what ecdanc is proposing. He's not talking about raising the child in a gender neutral fashion forever, just until the child starts to express/generate their own gender identity, at which point they will raise the child congruent with that gender (presumably while trying to avoid gender stereotypes). All the talk about the child or its little compatriots being "confused" by the lack of gender expectations misses the point, which is that infants and toddlers and preschoolers generally aren't confused by this, or more precisely, they are as confused by this as they are by pretty much everything else, because it's all new and they are just trying to absorb it all. There isn't really any bullying at this age, at least for anything other than "I want that toy so I'm going to take it". By the time the kids reach the age where bullying about perceived differences starts, the child will be expressing their gender identity already.
Those people of 17, 22, 35 or 69 that you're using as examples - they're exactly the ones that would have benefited from this approach. They wouldn't have had to struggle for years or decades with incongruencies between their assigned gender and the gender they perceive themselves to be.you my friend are a far better advocate for these and other issues....I feel spoken to. Engaged with.Not spoken at.thank you._____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
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memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
mickeyrat said:oftenreading said:HughFreakingDillon said:ecdanc said:dignin said:ecdanc said:HughFreakingDillon said:i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak".
second, i guess we can tell all those people out there transitioning at age 17, 22, 35, 47, and 69, that they are well behind the curve of modern 3 year olds.
I think this and similar posts show a lack of understanding of what ecdanc is proposing. He's not talking about raising the child in a gender neutral fashion forever, just until the child starts to express/generate their own gender identity, at which point they will raise the child congruent with that gender (presumably while trying to avoid gender stereotypes). All the talk about the child or its little compatriots being "confused" by the lack of gender expectations misses the point, which is that infants and toddlers and preschoolers generally aren't confused by this, or more precisely, they are as confused by this as they are by pretty much everything else, because it's all new and they are just trying to absorb it all. There isn't really any bullying at this age, at least for anything other than "I want that toy so I'm going to take it". By the time the kids reach the age where bullying about perceived differences starts, the child will be expressing their gender identity already.
Those people of 17, 22, 35 or 69 that you're using as examples - they're exactly the ones that would have benefited from this approach. They wouldn't have had to struggle for years or decades with incongruencies between their assigned gender and the gender they perceive themselves to be.you my friend are a far better advocate for these and other issues....I feel spoken to. Engaged with.Not spoken at.thank you.
Thanks, oftenreading.Post edited by ecdanc on0 -
ecdanc said:mickeyrat said:oftenreading said:HughFreakingDillon said:ecdanc said:dignin said:ecdanc said:HughFreakingDillon said:i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak".
second, i guess we can tell all those people out there transitioning at age 17, 22, 35, 47, and 69, that they are well behind the curve of modern 3 year olds.
I think this and similar posts show a lack of understanding of what ecdanc is proposing. He's not talking about raising the child in a gender neutral fashion forever, just until the child starts to express/generate their own gender identity, at which point they will raise the child congruent with that gender (presumably while trying to avoid gender stereotypes). All the talk about the child or its little compatriots being "confused" by the lack of gender expectations misses the point, which is that infants and toddlers and preschoolers generally aren't confused by this, or more precisely, they are as confused by this as they are by pretty much everything else, because it's all new and they are just trying to absorb it all. There isn't really any bullying at this age, at least for anything other than "I want that toy so I'm going to take it". By the time the kids reach the age where bullying about perceived differences starts, the child will be expressing their gender identity already.
Those people of 17, 22, 35 or 69 that you're using as examples - they're exactly the ones that would have benefited from this approach. They wouldn't have had to struggle for years or decades with incongruencies between their assigned gender and the gender they perceive themselves to be.you my friend are a far better advocate for these and other issues....I feel spoken to. Engaged with.Not spoken at.thank you.
Thanks, oftenreading.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
benjs said:ecdanc said:mickeyrat said:oftenreading said:HughFreakingDillon said:ecdanc said:dignin said:ecdanc said:HughFreakingDillon said:i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak".
second, i guess we can tell all those people out there transitioning at age 17, 22, 35, 47, and 69, that they are well behind the curve of modern 3 year olds.
I think this and similar posts show a lack of understanding of what ecdanc is proposing. He's not talking about raising the child in a gender neutral fashion forever, just until the child starts to express/generate their own gender identity, at which point they will raise the child congruent with that gender (presumably while trying to avoid gender stereotypes). All the talk about the child or its little compatriots being "confused" by the lack of gender expectations misses the point, which is that infants and toddlers and preschoolers generally aren't confused by this, or more precisely, they are as confused by this as they are by pretty much everything else, because it's all new and they are just trying to absorb it all. There isn't really any bullying at this age, at least for anything other than "I want that toy so I'm going to take it". By the time the kids reach the age where bullying about perceived differences starts, the child will be expressing their gender identity already.
Those people of 17, 22, 35 or 69 that you're using as examples - they're exactly the ones that would have benefited from this approach. They wouldn't have had to struggle for years or decades with incongruencies between their assigned gender and the gender they perceive themselves to be.you my friend are a far better advocate for these and other issues....I feel spoken to. Engaged with.Not spoken at.thank you.
Thanks, oftenreading.0 -
ecdanc said:benjs said:ecdanc said:mickeyrat said:oftenreading said:HughFreakingDillon said:ecdanc said:dignin said:ecdanc said:HughFreakingDillon said:i have read what was written. no point was missed. people here need to come to the realization that just because I disagree with you, doesn't mean a point was missed, or, as dignin so elegantly put it, as usual, is "fucking weak".
second, i guess we can tell all those people out there transitioning at age 17, 22, 35, 47, and 69, that they are well behind the curve of modern 3 year olds.
I think this and similar posts show a lack of understanding of what ecdanc is proposing. He's not talking about raising the child in a gender neutral fashion forever, just until the child starts to express/generate their own gender identity, at which point they will raise the child congruent with that gender (presumably while trying to avoid gender stereotypes). All the talk about the child or its little compatriots being "confused" by the lack of gender expectations misses the point, which is that infants and toddlers and preschoolers generally aren't confused by this, or more precisely, they are as confused by this as they are by pretty much everything else, because it's all new and they are just trying to absorb it all. There isn't really any bullying at this age, at least for anything other than "I want that toy so I'm going to take it". By the time the kids reach the age where bullying about perceived differences starts, the child will be expressing their gender identity already.
Those people of 17, 22, 35 or 69 that you're using as examples - they're exactly the ones that would have benefited from this approach. They wouldn't have had to struggle for years or decades with incongruencies between their assigned gender and the gender they perceive themselves to be.you my friend are a far better advocate for these and other issues....I feel spoken to. Engaged with.Not spoken at.thank you.
Thanks, oftenreading.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
I think some people take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.
Post edited by brianlux on"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.0 -
brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.
The way I see it, the parents being neutral and raising their kids with no pressure to be one or the other are being less serious. Is that how you feel?0 -
dignin said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.
The way I see it, the parents being neutral and raising their kids with no pressure to be one or the other are being less serious. Is that how you feel?hippiemom = goodness0 -
ecdanc said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.For infants, take seriously:Loving themGood nutritionSafe and clean environmentThe health of the planet (they will inherit this ailing earth)For infants, don't take serious:Gender issues. Infants don't give two shits about gender issues.dignin said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.
The way I see it, the parents being neutral and raising their kids with no pressure to be one or the other are being less serious. Is that how you feel?
I'm only going to talk about the subject. Not in a hurry to get banned."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I changed it to "some people" so no one will think I'm talking about YOU. I'm not.This whole thread occupies way more space than I would really think is justifiable in a world with so many more pressing issues... like, your planet if being fucked and your kids will have to deal with that!"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
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brianlux said:I changed it to "some people" so no one will think I'm talking about YOU. I'm not.This whole thread occupies way more space than I would really think is justifiable in a world with so many more pressing issues... like, your planet if being fucked and your kids will have to deal with that!0
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brianlux said:ecdanc said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.For infants, take seriously:Loving themGood nutritionSafe and clean environmentThe health of the planet (they will inherit this ailing earth)For infants, don't take serious:Gender issues. Infants don't give two shits about gender issues.dignin said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.
The way I see it, the parents being neutral and raising their kids with no pressure to be one or the other are being less serious. Is that how you feel?
I'm only going to talk about the subject. Not in a hurry to get banned.0 -
ecdanc said:brianlux said:I changed it to "some people" so no one will think I'm talking about YOU. I'm not.This whole thread occupies way more space than I would really think is justifiable in a world with so many more pressing issues... like, your planet if being fucked and your kids will have to deal with that!
I know it's a big issue for you. Sorry if my words offend!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
ecdanc said:brianlux said:ecdanc said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.For infants, take seriously:Loving themGood nutritionSafe and clean environmentThe health of the planet (they will inherit this ailing earth)For infants, don't take serious:Gender issues. Infants don't give two shits about gender issues.dignin said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.
The way I see it, the parents being neutral and raising their kids with no pressure to be one or the other are being less serious. Is that how you feel?
I'm only going to talk about the subject. Not in a hurry to get banned.Your infant will inherit the earth. It's you who would do well to be concerned about the planet. It's yours and my responsibility to do what we can to help lesson our negative impact on environment for their sake. And I never even reproduced, so you parents especially might want to be concerned about the state of the planet."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
brianlux said:ecdanc said:brianlux said:ecdanc said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.For infants, take seriously:Loving themGood nutritionSafe and clean environmentThe health of the planet (they will inherit this ailing earth)For infants, don't take serious:Gender issues. Infants don't give two shits about gender issues.dignin said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.
The way I see it, the parents being neutral and raising their kids with no pressure to be one or the other are being less serious. Is that how you feel?
I'm only going to talk about the subject. Not in a hurry to get banned.Your infant will inherit the earth. It's you who would do well to be concerned about the planet. It's yours and my responsibility to do what we can to help lesson our negative impact on environment for their sake. And I never even reproduced, so you parents especially might want to be concerned about the state of the planet.0 -
ecdanc said:brianlux said:ecdanc said:brianlux said:ecdanc said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.For infants, take seriously:Loving themGood nutritionSafe and clean environmentThe health of the planet (they will inherit this ailing earth)For infants, don't take serious:Gender issues. Infants don't give two shits about gender issues.dignin said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.
The way I see it, the parents being neutral and raising their kids with no pressure to be one or the other are being less serious. Is that how you feel?
I'm only going to talk about the subject. Not in a hurry to get banned.Your infant will inherit the earth. It's you who would do well to be concerned about the planet. It's yours and my responsibility to do what we can to help lesson our negative impact on environment for their sake. And I never even reproduced, so you parents especially might want to be concerned about the state of the planet.I'm very concerned and this place give me good reason to be concerned. I'm fairly certain this is a forum on which people are generally more environmentally concerned than the average person posting on the internet. And yet, even here, look at the concern level of climate change compared to gender issue:All Thing Transgender Related thread:Amount of time it has been on AMT: Less than one month.Number of responses: 876The all-purpose, heavy duty Global Warming/ Climate Change thread:Amount of time it has been on AMT: 8 monthsNumber of responses: 226Yeah, that concerns me very, very much.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
cincybearcat said:dignin said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.
The way I see it, the parents being neutral and raising their kids with no pressure to be one or the other are being less serious. Is that how you feel?0 -
People have different priorities. One can’t expect the same level of concern from everyone on certain subjects or consider one more or less important.Despite (or because of?) the bickering, I’ve found this to be quite an interesting and informative thread.0
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brianlux said:ecdanc said:brianlux said:ecdanc said:brianlux said:ecdanc said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.For infants, take seriously:Loving themGood nutritionSafe and clean environmentThe health of the planet (they will inherit this ailing earth)For infants, don't take serious:Gender issues. Infants don't give two shits about gender issues.dignin said:brianlux said:
I think some of y'all take this toddler gender business way too seriously. Some parents give their boys toy trucks to play with and girls dolls (I'm a guy and as an infant, I had both)- so what? Some do the opposite. So what? I know a woman who lived next door to a famous drummer who has a son who wanted to wear a pink dress to school the first day he ever went to school. So what? (I though that was funny as hell- cute!) They are infants. They don't give two shits about this stuff. Jesus, just let them be kids.
The way I see it, the parents being neutral and raising their kids with no pressure to be one or the other are being less serious. Is that how you feel?
I'm only going to talk about the subject. Not in a hurry to get banned.Your infant will inherit the earth. It's you who would do well to be concerned about the planet. It's yours and my responsibility to do what we can to help lesson our negative impact on environment for their sake. And I never even reproduced, so you parents especially might want to be concerned about the state of the planet.I'm very concerned and this place give me good reason to be concerned. I'm fairly certain this is a forum on which people are generally more environmentally concerned than the average person posting on the internet. And yet, even here, look at the concern level of climate change compared to gender issue:All Thing Transgender Related thread:Amount of time it has been on AMT: Less than one month.Number of responses: 876The all-purpose, heavy duty Global Warming/ Climate Change thread:Amount of time it has been on AMT: 8 monthsNumber of responses: 226Yeah, that concerns me very, very much.0
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