All things Transgender related

ecdanc

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

I'll say this....I don't care how people identify and want to live their lives.  Life is too short for us to tell anyone how they can live.

That being said, this pronoun crap is ridiculous.  They even have to document your preferred pronoun on medical records now.  I told my wife I am going to use "her/they" if they ask me.

A lot of people think this way.  I think this way.

It is something I try and understand and do not get, I just don't.  

I have gay neighbors that have an adopted son that wants to trasngender/transform to a woman.  They don't understand but are trying.

I'm trying.  

It may take a lot of questions and people telling me I'm offending them or I am not getting it but I am trying.

In the end I may not understand but that doesn't mean that I am against what they are doing.  Live and let live.

well said....

I get that saying "there is only male and female" is probably incorrect.  I'm not a scientist so I just can't argue about it.

No, no, no. Science has nothing to do with this. Science does not determine when and how you treat someone with decency. 

ecdanc

Gern Blansten said:

ecdanc said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

I'll say this....I don't care how people identify and want to live their lives.  Life is too short for us to tell anyone how they can live.

That being said, this pronoun crap is ridiculous.  They even have to document your preferred pronoun on medical records now.  I told my wife I am going to use "her/they" if they ask me.

A lot of people think this way.  I think this way.

It is something I try and understand and do not get, I just don't.  

I have gay neighbors that have an adopted son that wants to trasngender/transform to a woman.  They don't understand but are trying.

I'm trying.  

It may take a lot of questions and people telling me I'm offending them or I am not getting it but I am trying.

In the end I may not understand but that doesn't mean that I am against what they are doing.  Live and let live.

“This ... is ridiculous” does not sound like someone trying to understand. 

I apologize if that offended you, truly.  I think it is ridiculous in the sense that no one could possibly know what pronoun someone wants to be referred to as when we don't have it tattooed on our foreheads or wear some sort of sign/tag.  

Ask?

tempo_n_groove

ecdanc said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

I'll say this....I don't care how people identify and want to live their lives.  Life is too short for us to tell anyone how they can live.

That being said, this pronoun crap is ridiculous.  They even have to document your preferred pronoun on medical records now.  I told my wife I am going to use "her/they" if they ask me.

A lot of people think this way.  I think this way.

It is something I try and understand and do not get, I just don't.  

I have gay neighbors that have an adopted son that wants to trasngender/transform to a woman.  They don't understand but are trying.

I'm trying.  

It may take a lot of questions and people telling me I'm offending them or I am not getting it but I am trying.

In the end I may not understand but that doesn't mean that I am against what they are doing.  Live and let live.

“This ... is ridiculous” does not sound like someone trying to understand. 

I guess you missed the part where I admit to not getting it?

tempo_n_groove

ecdanc said:

dignin said:

ecdanc said:

dignin said:

ecdanc said:

Gern Blansten said:

ecdanc said:

Gern Blansten said:

ecdanc said:

Gern Blansten said:

I'll say this....I don't care how people identify and want to live their lives.  Life is too short for us to tell anyone how they can live.

That being said, this pronoun crap is ridiculous.  They even have to document your preferred pronoun on medical records now.  I told my wife I am going to use "her/they" if they ask me.

See, what’s the proper way for me to tell Gern he’s being offensive?

keep in mind that I don't care what pronoun people use....I'm just not going to use it

So you’re reinforcing the dehumanization of trans, non-binary, and gender fluid people. 

Not intentionally.  I don't think it is fair to make that case against someone who truly doesn't care how people choose to identify.

Why does your intent matter? I doubt it does to the trans people you’re misgendering. 

It should and it does, in my experiences anyways.

I agree that intentionally dehumanizing someone is worse than unintentionally dehumanizing someone. 

In my experience, although very limited, the trans people I know are very understanding. I work with a trans person, but I had the luxury of being introduced to her with her name. So that's how I refer to her. 

But even with my best intentions, I could probably still fuck that up somehow and I get the impression she would be forgiving. Most of us have spent our entire lives using two pronouns so we're bound to slip every once in awhile, even with the best of intentions.

Absolutely. The goal is to minimize—and eventually eliminate—their need to be forgiving (in this precise way). 

For this to really happen wouldn't we have to get rid of the terms "his or her"?

ecdanc

tempo_n_groove said:

ecdanc said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

I'll say this....I don't care how people identify and want to live their lives.  Life is too short for us to tell anyone how they can live.

That being said, this pronoun crap is ridiculous.  They even have to document your preferred pronoun on medical records now.  I told my wife I am going to use "her/they" if they ask me.

A lot of people think this way.  I think this way.

It is something I try and understand and do not get, I just don't.  

I have gay neighbors that have an adopted son that wants to trasngender/transform to a woman.  They don't understand but are trying.

I'm trying.  

It may take a lot of questions and people telling me I'm offending them or I am not getting it but I am trying.

In the end I may not understand but that doesn't mean that I am against what they are doing.  Live and let live.

“This ... is ridiculous” does not sound like someone trying to understand. 

I guess you missed the part where I admit to not getting it?

Sorry. My bad. I quoted you to reinforce my point to Gern. I was unclear. 

Gern Blansten

ecdanc said:

Gern Blansten said:

ecdanc said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

I'll say this....I don't care how people identify and want to live their lives.  Life is too short for us to tell anyone how they can live.

That being said, this pronoun crap is ridiculous.  They even have to document your preferred pronoun on medical records now.  I told my wife I am going to use "her/they" if they ask me.

A lot of people think this way.  I think this way.

It is something I try and understand and do not get, I just don't.  

I have gay neighbors that have an adopted son that wants to trasngender/transform to a woman.  They don't understand but are trying.

I'm trying.  

It may take a lot of questions and people telling me I'm offending them or I am not getting it but I am trying.

In the end I may not understand but that doesn't mean that I am against what they are doing.  Live and let live.

“This ... is ridiculous” does not sound like someone trying to understand. 

I apologize if that offended you, truly.  I think it is ridiculous in the sense that no one could possibly know what pronoun someone wants to be referred to as when we don't have it tattooed on our foreheads or wear some sort of sign/tag.  

Ask?

Isn't that like assuming a woman "when is your due date?" when she may have just put on a few lbs?

Asking someone what their pronoun is makes no sense.  If I need to ask you in order for someone to avoid being offended then you need to just announce occasionally so that everyone knows.

Spiritual_Chaos

nvm. misread.

ecdanc

Gern Blansten said:

ecdanc said:

Gern Blansten said:

ecdanc said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

I'll say this....I don't care how people identify and want to live their lives.  Life is too short for us to tell anyone how they can live.

That being said, this pronoun crap is ridiculous.  They even have to document your preferred pronoun on medical records now.  I told my wife I am going to use "her/they" if they ask me.

A lot of people think this way.  I think this way.

It is something I try and understand and do not get, I just don't.  

I have gay neighbors that have an adopted son that wants to trasngender/transform to a woman.  They don't understand but are trying.

I'm trying.  

It may take a lot of questions and people telling me I'm offending them or I am not getting it but I am trying.

In the end I may not understand but that doesn't mean that I am against what they are doing.  Live and let live.

“This ... is ridiculous” does not sound like someone trying to understand. 

I apologize if that offended you, truly.  I think it is ridiculous in the sense that no one could possibly know what pronoun someone wants to be referred to as when we don't have it tattooed on our foreheads or wear some sort of sign/tag.  

Ask?

Isn't that like assuming a woman "when is your due date?" when she may have just put on a few lbs?

Asking someone what their pronoun is makes no sense.  If I need to ask you in order for someone to avoid being offended then you need to just announce occasionally so that everyone knows.

Edit: https://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

tempo_n_groove

ecdanc said:

Gern Blansten said:

ecdanc said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

I'll say this....I don't care how people identify and want to live their lives.  Life is too short for us to tell anyone how they can live.

That being said, this pronoun crap is ridiculous.  They even have to document your preferred pronoun on medical records now.  I told my wife I am going to use "her/they" if they ask me.

A lot of people think this way.  I think this way.

It is something I try and understand and do not get, I just don't.  

I have gay neighbors that have an adopted son that wants to trasngender/transform to a woman.  They don't understand but are trying.

I'm trying.  

It may take a lot of questions and people telling me I'm offending them or I am not getting it but I am trying.

In the end I may not understand but that doesn't mean that I am against what they are doing.  Live and let live.

“This ... is ridiculous” does not sound like someone trying to understand. 

I apologize if that offended you, truly.  I think it is ridiculous in the sense that no one could possibly know what pronoun someone wants to be referred to as when we don't have it tattooed on our foreheads or wear some sort of sign/tag.  

Ask?

I'm full of questions here.

I would think it might come off as rude if you asked?

or is the wrong pronoun more egregious?

or is it different case for different people?

ecdanc

tempo_n_groove said:

ecdanc said:

Gern Blansten said:

ecdanc said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

I'll say this....I don't care how people identify and want to live their lives.  Life is too short for us to tell anyone how they can live.

That being said, this pronoun crap is ridiculous.  They even have to document your preferred pronoun on medical records now.  I told my wife I am going to use "her/they" if they ask me.

A lot of people think this way.  I think this way.

It is something I try and understand and do not get, I just don't.  

I have gay neighbors that have an adopted son that wants to trasngender/transform to a woman.  They don't understand but are trying.

I'm trying.  

It may take a lot of questions and people telling me I'm offending them or I am not getting it but I am trying.

In the end I may not understand but that doesn't mean that I am against what they are doing.  Live and let live.

“This ... is ridiculous” does not sound like someone trying to understand. 

I apologize if that offended you, truly.  I think it is ridiculous in the sense that no one could possibly know what pronoun someone wants to be referred to as when we don't have it tattooed on our foreheads or wear some sort of sign/tag.  

Ask?

I'm full of questions here.

I would think it might come off as rude if you asked?

or is the wrong pronoun more egregious?

or is it different case for different people?

See the link

tempo_n_groove

Spiritual_Chaos said:

nvm. misread.

Thank god you are so woke that you can try and put me down for not getting it when it comes so easy to you.

Jesus I hate this fucking forum sometimes...

tempo_n_groove

ecdanc said:

tempo_n_groove said:

ecdanc said:

Gern Blansten said:

ecdanc said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

I'll say this....I don't care how people identify and want to live their lives.  Life is too short for us to tell anyone how they can live.

That being said, this pronoun crap is ridiculous.  They even have to document your preferred pronoun on medical records now.  I told my wife I am going to use "her/they" if they ask me.

A lot of people think this way.  I think this way.

It is something I try and understand and do not get, I just don't.  

I have gay neighbors that have an adopted son that wants to trasngender/transform to a woman.  They don't understand but are trying.

I'm trying.  

It may take a lot of questions and people telling me I'm offending them or I am not getting it but I am trying.

In the end I may not understand but that doesn't mean that I am against what they are doing.  Live and let live.

“This ... is ridiculous” does not sound like someone trying to understand. 

I apologize if that offended you, truly.  I think it is ridiculous in the sense that no one could possibly know what pronoun someone wants to be referred to as when we don't have it tattooed on our foreheads or wear some sort of sign/tag.  

Ask?

I'm full of questions here.

I would think it might come off as rude if you asked?

or is the wrong pronoun more egregious?

or is it different case for different people?

See the link

Will do TY!

tbergs

Gern Blansten said:

ecdanc said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

I'll say this....I don't care how people identify and want to live their lives.  Life is too short for us to tell anyone how they can live.

That being said, this pronoun crap is ridiculous.  They even have to document your preferred pronoun on medical records now.  I told my wife I am going to use "her/they" if they ask me.

A lot of people think this way.  I think this way.

It is something I try and understand and do not get, I just don't.  

I have gay neighbors that have an adopted son that wants to trasngender/transform to a woman.  They don't understand but are trying.

I'm trying.  

It may take a lot of questions and people telling me I'm offending them or I am not getting it but I am trying.

In the end I may not understand but that doesn't mean that I am against what they are doing.  Live and let live.

“This ... is ridiculous” does not sound like someone trying to understand. 

I apologize if that offended you, truly.  I think it is ridiculous in the sense that no one could possibly know what pronoun someone wants to be referred to as when we don't have it tattooed on our foreheads or wear some sort of sign/tag.  

I think the point ec is trying to advocate for (feel free to correct me ec as I may be way off) is that we discontinue using those pronouns which categorize based on our initial 1st impression of the person physically so that way it doesn't matter because the term would be ambigouos, unless clarified. I admit, it would take a lot of time for this concept to reach social and culture norm because it goes against every basic English language lesson we have ever been taught in regards to pronoun usage. On the other side of this though, I struggle with why it even matters that much? Both of my boys have had long hair most of their life (11 & 7) and have often been referred to as she or her when random people comment in conversation. Our youngest has the most beautiful long lashes to go with it so I'm sure it's easy to mistake him for a girl, but we simply correct them and move on. It's often the same old, "Oh, I'm sorry..." and we honestly don't care and laugh it off together. Now, does that have a long lasting impact on them psychologically? I don't know, but what we have taught them is that sometimes people stereotype based on certain physical characteristics and use their best judgment to assign what they believe to be the proper pronoun assessment (we explain that a little more kid friendly obviously). I have never seen it used to purposefully shame someone in my experiences, but if it were to happen, I would wager it would be other school age kids who can be the worst sometimes; however, I often feel that is a reflection of either their comfort level or what influence they have picked up from a parent or adult figure in their life.

I think remaining open minded and being willing to listen to others preferences and experiences (aka, just being a decent person who cares about more than yourself) would alleviate negative connotations.

Spiritual_Chaos

tempo_n_groove said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

nvm. misread.

Thank god you are so woke that you can try and put me down for not getting it when it comes so easy to you.

Jesus I hate this fucking forum sometimes...

Don't mistake common sense for "woke". 

But notice I removed my comment because I misread your comment because I was eating a juicy pear at the same time which took some focus from me.

Gern Blansten

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

nvm. misread.

Thank god you are so woke that you can try and put me down for not getting it when it comes so easy to you.

Jesus I hate this fucking forum sometimes...

Don't mistake common sense for "woke". 

But notice I removed my comment because I misread your comment because I was eating a juicy pear at the same time which took some focus from me.

That's offensive to non juicy pears

tempo_n_groove

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

nvm. misread.

Thank god you are so woke that you can try and put me down for not getting it when it comes so easy to you.

Jesus I hate this fucking forum sometimes...

Don't mistake common sense for "woke". 

But notice I removed my comment because I misread your comment because I was eating a juicy pear at the same time which took some focus from me.

Again w the slight...  

Spiritual_Chaos

Gern Blansten said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

nvm. misread.

Thank god you are so woke that you can try and put me down for not getting it when it comes so easy to you.

Jesus I hate this fucking forum sometimes...

Don't mistake common sense for "woke". 

But notice I removed my comment because I misread your comment because I was eating a juicy pear at the same time which took some focus from me.

That's offensive to non juicy pears

non juicy pears can go to hell.

Bentleyspop

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

nvm. misread.

Thank god you are so woke that you can try and put me down for not getting it when it comes so easy to you.

Jesus I hate this fucking forum sometimes...

Don't mistake common sense for "woke". 

But notice I removed my comment because I misread your comment because I was eating a juicy pear at the same time which took some focus from me.

Who doesn't like a juicy pair

Gern Blansten

Bentleyspop said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

nvm. misread.

Thank god you are so woke that you can try and put me down for not getting it when it comes so easy to you.

Jesus I hate this fucking forum sometimes...

Don't mistake common sense for "woke". 

But notice I removed my comment because I misread your comment because I was eating a juicy pear at the same time which took some focus from me.

Who doesn't like a juicy pair

well....

jeffbr

tbergs said: I admit, it would take a lot of time for this concept to reach social and culture norm because it goes against every basic English language lesson we have ever been taught in regards to pronoun usage. 

This, for sure, will be a big blocker. It is for me. I've been speaking and studying the language for over 5.5 decades, and find using a plural pronoun when referencing an individual subject to be problematic. It is as nonsensical as saying irregardless. It simply doesn't make sense. A different or new pronoun would have likely been a better play. Anyway, I'm sure Professor Troll will now lecture me. Kids who spend their lives in the confines of academia and breath that rarefied air often seem to have inflated opinions about themselves and their intelligence. And they often expose themselves when they start interacting with people who live in the real world. This thread has demonstrated that. When Brian is accused of being a homophobe, and Matt is portrayed as unreasonable and/or uneducated we know we have a winner!