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Sharing facts is not pretending. Even the CDC believes the cases to be significantly under reported. If you want to believe they aren’t, fine. But even the CDC believes the cases to be about 8 times greater than what is reported. I highly doubt anyone think deaths are that under reported as well.Lerxst1992 said:DEATHS CAN BE UNDERREPORTED JUST LIKE CASES MIGHT BE.
ITS QUITE DIFFICULT FOR THE FIRST TYPE OF ERROR TO NOT EXIST IF THE SECOND EXISTS
The most likely scenario is both do. And mild covid cases are nearly irrelevant in considering the true danger to the vulnerable. So let’s stop pretending that mild cases make covid less deadly.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/11/26/939365087/government-model-suggests-u-s-covid-19-cases-could-be-approaching-100-million
yes, that report is from 5 months ago. But show me a more recent CDC report or other reliable source that says it’s not drastically under reported.
Thats not pretending this isn’t deadly or that we should just hope for here immunity. It’s just facts.0 -
It's been interesting reading the back and forth. I don't see the point in the opposing side arguing the amount of deaths since it's clear we'd have tens of millions of dead if nothing had been done and we just let it run it's course unabated. Weirdest argument ever. Who cares if it would be 120 million or 22 million, both are insanely unacceptable.It's a hopeless situation...0
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Yes, that is it exactly. That was the whole argument to the person who said that we should have just gone herd.tbergs said:It's been interesting reading the back and forth. I don't see the point in the opposing side arguing the amount of deaths since it's clear we'd have tens of millions of dead if nothing had been done and we just let it run it's course unabated. Weirdest argument ever. Who cares if it would be 120 million or 22 million, both are insanely unacceptable.0 -
Because virus gonna virus.mrussel1 said:
Yes, that is it exactly. That was the whole argument to the person who said that we should have just gone herd.tbergs said:It's been interesting reading the back and forth. I don't see the point in the opposing side arguing the amount of deaths since it's clear we'd have tens of millions of dead if nothing had been done and we just let it run it's course unabated. Weirdest argument ever. Who cares if it would be 120 million or 22 million, both are insanely unacceptable.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Agreed.tbergs said:It's been interesting reading the back and forth. I don't see the point in the opposing side arguing the amount of deaths since it's clear we'd have tens of millions of dead if nothing had been done and we just let it run it's course unabated. Weirdest argument ever. Who cares if it would be 120 million or 22 million, both are insanely unacceptable.
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Mace - you've got half the story right. As I said I used straight math to calculate the death rate, 2%+. Five below objected saying 40-45% of cases are not in the numbers. I said, fine, let's up the total cases to 189MM (known cases *1.40), so the death rate goes to 1.5%, I recalculated the approximate deaths from herd or "do nothing". And then it just kept going, and going and going. For what reason, I'm not sure. No one is disputing that the number of actual cases are higher than reported. I wasn't trying to make a precise case, only the point that the total deaths from herd would be enormous.mace1229 said:
Sharing facts is not pretending. Even the CDC believes the cases to be significantly under reported. If you want to believe they aren’t, fine. But even the CDC believes the cases to be about 8 times greater than what is reported. I highly doubt anyone think deaths are that under reported as well.Lerxst1992 said:DEATHS CAN BE UNDERREPORTED JUST LIKE CASES MIGHT BE.
ITS QUITE DIFFICULT FOR THE FIRST TYPE OF ERROR TO NOT EXIST IF THE SECOND EXISTS
The most likely scenario is both do. And mild covid cases are nearly irrelevant in considering the true danger to the vulnerable. So let’s stop pretending that mild cases make covid less deadly.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/11/26/939365087/government-model-suggests-u-s-covid-19-cases-could-be-approaching-100-million
yes, that report is from 5 months ago. But show me a more recent CDC report or other reliable source that says it’s not drastically under reported.
Thats not pretending this isn’t deadly or that we should just hope for here immunity. It’s just facts.Post edited by mrussel1 on0 -
Even if the actual death rate for the US is below 1%, which I believe it to be, I would agree with that.mrussel1 said:
Mace - you've got half the story right. As I said I used straight math to calculate the death rate, 2%+. Five below objected saying 40-45% of cases are not in the numbers. I said, fine, let's up the total cases to 189MM (known cases *1.40), so the death rate goes to 1.5%, I recalculated the approximate deaths from herd or "do nothing". And then it just kept going, and going and going. For what reason, I'm not sure. No one is disputing that the number of actual cases are higher than reported. I wasn't trying to make a precise case, only the point that the total deaths from herd would be enormous.mace1229 said:
Sharing facts is not pretending. Even the CDC believes the cases to be significantly under reported. If you want to believe they aren’t, fine. But even the CDC believes the cases to be about 8 times greater than what is reported. I highly doubt anyone think deaths are that under reported as well.Lerxst1992 said:DEATHS CAN BE UNDERREPORTED JUST LIKE CASES MIGHT BE.
ITS QUITE DIFFICULT FOR THE FIRST TYPE OF ERROR TO NOT EXIST IF THE SECOND EXISTS
The most likely scenario is both do. And mild covid cases are nearly irrelevant in considering the true danger to the vulnerable. So let’s stop pretending that mild cases make covid less deadly.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/11/26/939365087/government-model-suggests-u-s-covid-19-cases-could-be-approaching-100-million
yes, that report is from 5 months ago. But show me a more recent CDC report or other reliable source that says it’s not drastically under reported.
Thats not pretending this isn’t deadly or that we should just hope for here immunity. It’s just facts.0 -
Seems the resident clown shoe and self admitted idiot with regards to math and science, all things really, was closest in their prediction. An update on our Swedish friends too, although somewhat dated being from October 2020. Buh, buh, buh my freedumb and virus gonna virus. Hey, who knows, one or two million dead 'Muricans is no biggie. To some, apparently.
Many researchers say pursuing herd immunity is a bad idea. “Attempting to reach herd immunity via targeted infections is simply ludicrous,” Andersen says. “In the US, probably one to two million people would die.”
Earlier in the pandemic, media reports claimed that Sweden was pursuing a herd immunity strategy by essentially letting people live their lives as normal, but that idea is a “misunderstanding”, according to the country’s minister for health and social affairs, Lena Hallengren. Herd immunity “is a potential consequence of how the spread of the virus develops, in Sweden or in any other country”, she told Nature in a written statement, but it is “not a part of our strategy”. Sweden’s approach, she said, uses similar tools to most other countries: “Promoting social distancing, protecting vulnerable people, carrying out testing and contact tracing, and reinforcing our health system to cope with the pandemic.” Despite this, Sweden is hardly a model of success — statistics from Johns Hopkins University show the country has seen more than ten times the number of COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 people seen in neighbouring Norway (58.12 per 100,000, compared with 5.23 per 100,000 in Norway). Sweden’s case fatality rate, which is based on the number of known infections, is also at least three times those of Norway and nearby Denmark.
The false promise of herd immunity for COVID-19 (nature.com)
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If this had been your initial response things would have been much easier. I also made it clear that I was not for herd immunity and no amount of death is acceptable. Moving on, no hard feelings.mrussel1 said:
Mace - you've got half the story right. As I said I used straight math to calculate the death rate, 2%+. Five below objected saying 40-45% of cases are not in the numbers. I said, fine, let's up the total cases to 189MM (known cases *1.40), so the death rate goes to 1.5%, I recalculated the approximate deaths from herd or "do nothing". And then it just kept going, and going and going. For what reason, I'm not sure. No one is disputing that the number of actual cases are higher than reported. I wasn't trying to make a precise case, only the point that the total deaths from herd would be enormous.mace1229 said:
Sharing facts is not pretending. Even the CDC believes the cases to be significantly under reported. If you want to believe they aren’t, fine. But even the CDC believes the cases to be about 8 times greater than what is reported. I highly doubt anyone think deaths are that under reported as well.Lerxst1992 said:DEATHS CAN BE UNDERREPORTED JUST LIKE CASES MIGHT BE.
ITS QUITE DIFFICULT FOR THE FIRST TYPE OF ERROR TO NOT EXIST IF THE SECOND EXISTS
The most likely scenario is both do. And mild covid cases are nearly irrelevant in considering the true danger to the vulnerable. So let’s stop pretending that mild cases make covid less deadly.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/11/26/939365087/government-model-suggests-u-s-covid-19-cases-could-be-approaching-100-million
yes, that report is from 5 months ago. But show me a more recent CDC report or other reliable source that says it’s not drastically under reported.
Thats not pretending this isn’t deadly or that we should just hope for here immunity. It’s just facts.Post edited by FiveBelow on0 -
Update: After getting Moderna shot #2 Saturday morning, we went for our daily one our of brisk walking (#141 consecutive days walking!) By the end of the day, I feeling a bit tired but no big deal. But then I woke up early Sunday morning with extreme pain in my lower back and a killer headache. My background pain level was and 8 1/2 out of ten with constant recurring cyclical waves a pain and nausea hitting 9 1/2, close to 10. Walk day #142 did not happen.
Yesterday was utter misery. I began to ask myself if this was worth doing. I'm retired, I stay away from people, don't go out much and have survived COVID for over a year just fine. I only did it because of some peer pressure from a few people close to me.
Now it's Monday and my lower back pain is off the charts. I'm icing it as I type this wonder when I will be functional again. I'm not exactly what you would call in the best space right now.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Sending you a smile, Bboy. Hang in there. I'm so happy to hear about your fantastic health habit!Post edited by Spunkie onI was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef
Animals were hiding behind the Coral
Except for little Turtle
I could swear he's trying to talk to me
Gurgle Gurgle0 -
brianlux said:Update: After getting Moderna shot #2 Saturday morning, we went for our daily one our of brisk walking (#141 consecutive days walking!) By the end of the day, I feeling a bit tired but no big deal. But then I woke up early Sunday morning with extreme pain in my lower back and a killer headache. My background pain level was and 8 1/2 out of ten with constant recurring cyclical waves a pain and nausea hitting 9 1/2, close to 10. Walk day #142 did not happen.
Yesterday was utter misery. I began to ask myself if this was worth doing. I'm retired, I stay away from people, don't go out much and have survived COVID for over a year just fine. I only did it because of some peer pressure from a few people close to me.
Now it's Monday and my lower back pain is off the charts. I'm icing it as I type this wonder when I will be functional again. I'm not exactly what you would call in the best space right now.
I'm almost 72 hours out from my 2nd Moderna (1:15, Friday afternoon) and feeling much better than I did on Saturday & yesterday morning. Yesterday afternoon was hit or miss, while Saturday I barely got off the couch. Tylenol helped a lot.
Hang in there man, you should be better later today or in the morning.0 -
Merkin Baller said:brianlux said:Update: After getting Moderna shot #2 Saturday morning, we went for our daily one our of brisk walking (#141 consecutive days walking!) By the end of the day, I feeling a bit tired but no big deal. But then I woke up early Sunday morning with extreme pain in my lower back and a killer headache. My background pain level was and 8 1/2 out of ten with constant recurring cyclical waves a pain and nausea hitting 9 1/2, close to 10. Walk day #142 did not happen.
Yesterday was utter misery. I began to ask myself if this was worth doing. I'm retired, I stay away from people, don't go out much and have survived COVID for over a year just fine. I only did it because of some peer pressure from a few people close to me.
Now it's Monday and my lower back pain is off the charts. I'm icing it as I type this wonder when I will be functional again. I'm not exactly what you would call in the best space right now.
I'm almost 72 hours out from my 2nd Moderna (1:15, Friday afternoon) and feeling much better than I did on Saturday & yesterday morning. Yesterday afternoon was hit or miss, while Saturday I barely got off the couch. Tylenol helped a lot.
Hang in there man, you should be better later today or in the morning.Glad your doing better, Merk!I read that it is a bad idea to take either Tylenol or Ibuprofen before the vaccination (I did neither) and that afterwords it is OK to take Tylenol but not Ibuprofen because Ibuprofen is an NSAID (non-steroidal anti inflammatory drug), and it is better not to use it. Unfortunately, Tylenol has never helped me with pain but Ibuprofen works great for me. I'm pretty sure I would feel better if I could take Ibuprofen. I'm concerned now that being in bed for a day and a half has put my back out- something that is already an on-going issue.Well, I hope in the next day or two I am doing better. Some people (like my sister) have almost no reaction. For me, this vaccine has been an ass-kicker!"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I won't lie, I'm still not 100% & have some lingering soreness, but it's nothing compared to 2 days ago.brianlux said:Merkin Baller said:brianlux said:Update: After getting Moderna shot #2 Saturday morning, we went for our daily one our of brisk walking (#141 consecutive days walking!) By the end of the day, I feeling a bit tired but no big deal. But then I woke up early Sunday morning with extreme pain in my lower back and a killer headache. My background pain level was and 8 1/2 out of ten with constant recurring cyclical waves a pain and nausea hitting 9 1/2, close to 10. Walk day #142 did not happen.
Yesterday was utter misery. I began to ask myself if this was worth doing. I'm retired, I stay away from people, don't go out much and have survived COVID for over a year just fine. I only did it because of some peer pressure from a few people close to me.
Now it's Monday and my lower back pain is off the charts. I'm icing it as I type this wonder when I will be functional again. I'm not exactly what you would call in the best space right now.
I'm almost 72 hours out from my 2nd Moderna (1:15, Friday afternoon) and feeling much better than I did on Saturday & yesterday morning. Yesterday afternoon was hit or miss, while Saturday I barely got off the couch. Tylenol helped a lot.
Hang in there man, you should be better later today or in the morning.Glad your doing better, Merk!I read that it is a bad idea to take either Tylenol or Ibuprofen before the vaccination (I did neither) and that afterwords it is OK to take Tylenol but not Ibuprofen because Ibuprofen is an NSAID (non-steroidal anti inflammatory drug), and it is better not to use it. Unfortunately, Tylenol has never helped me with pain but Ibuprofen works great for me. I'm pretty sure I would feel better if I could take Ibuprofen. I'm concerned now that being in bed for a day and a half has put my back out- something that is already an on-going issue.Well, I hope in the next day or two I am doing better. Some people (like my sister) have almost no reaction. For me, this vaccine has been an ass-kicker!
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Taking paracetamol based products will stop the body raising its temp to fight the intruder. So it's a bad idea. Ride it out is the best way. Easy to say I know,AZ first dose was nasty. I held out though. Just
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -0 -
So, bars and restaurants are close for five months, caush are high level risk,right??..
But not here yeah??..haha..
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Well, public transit is kind of an essential service and it appears there is it least a mask mandate. Even so, you can't compare people packed in bars and sitting in restaurants maskless noshing on food for an hour to someone riding a bus with a mask on for what, 15 minutes on average? You can see the difference, right?23scidoo said:So, bars and restaurants are close for five months, caush are high level risk,right??..
But not here yeah??..haha..It's a hopeless situation...0 -
Well if people get the luxury of riding a public bus to work, school, grocery store, then why can't I get smashed in a bar 5 days a week. It makes no sense.tbergs said:
Well, public transit is kind of an essential service and it appears there is it least a mask mandate. Even so, you can't compare people packed in bars and sitting in restaurants maskless noshing on food for an hour to someone riding a bus with a mask on for what, 15 minutes on average? You can see the difference, right?23scidoo said:So, bars and restaurants are close for five months, caush are high level risk,right??..
But not here yeah??..haha..0 -
mrussel1 said:
Well if people get the luxury of riding a public bus to work, school, grocery store, then why can't I get smashed in a bar 5 days a week. It makes no sense.tbergs said:
Well, public transit is kind of an essential service and it appears there is it least a mask mandate. Even so, you can't compare people packed in bars and sitting in restaurants maskless noshing on food for an hour to someone riding a bus with a mask on for what, 15 minutes on average? You can see the difference, right?23scidoo said:So, bars and restaurants are close for five months, caush are high level risk,right??..
But not here yeah??..haha..
Riding public transit is a luxury? Whoa! Man, where you live? I wanna be there!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Ontario is considering moving all school boards to online learning and introducing a curfew?
These are the days of our lives in Ontario...we have a fat ass premier running this province like a reality show. They can not not just get their act together...
Don’t come to Ontario if you do not have to.
just to be clear, there is no need for online learning in most of the province, or is there a need for a curfew...just in the hotspots. I am not in a hotspot...
but Toronto is the centre of the universe, so we all have to suffer in fucking lockdown....GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER TORONTO!!!Give Peas A Chance…0
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