The coronavirus

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

I do remember in the months leading up to the election a lot of people openly expressed distrust in any vaccine, acting as of Trump himself was mixing chemicals in the whitehouse basement.

mrussel1

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

I do remember in the months leading up to the election a lot of people openly expressed distrust in any vaccine, acting as of Trump himself was mixing chemicals in the whitehouse basement.

Many people on this board? Like who?

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

I do remember in the months leading up to the election a lot of people openly expressed distrust in any vaccine, acting as of Trump himself was mixing chemicals in the whitehouse basement.

“A lot of people?” You mean anti-vaxxers, right? Who were these “a lot of people?”

mickeyrat

soon there wil be a clarification.

josevolution

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

I do remember in the months leading up to the election a lot of people openly expressed distrust in any vaccine, acting as of Trump himself was mixing chemicals in the whitehouse basement.

lol yeah right! If anything we were all expressing anxious feelings about not having a vaccine till way later so to have my whole family vaccinated is fantastic..

mcgruff10

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

I do remember in the months leading up to the election a lot of people openly expressed distrust in any vaccine, acting as of Trump himself was mixing chemicals in the whitehouse basement.

I will admit that I definitely didn’t want to be one of the first ones to get the vaccine.  

oftenreading

I think the concern was more that the Trump administration would cut corners in terms of regulatory approval, skipping steps in the process. 

Although I would indeed steer clear of any vaccine that Trump mixed up in the basement. 

mickeyrat

mcgruff10 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

I do remember in the months leading up to the election a lot of people openly expressed distrust in any vaccine, acting as of Trump himself was mixing chemicals in the whitehouse basement.

I will admit that I definitely didn’t want to be one of the first ones to get the vaccine.  

so when did that change?

couple months before the election had trials started yet?

mcgruff10

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

I do remember in the months leading up to the election a lot of people openly expressed distrust in any vaccine, acting as of Trump himself was mixing chemicals in the whitehouse basement.

I will admit that I definitely didn’t want to be one of the first ones to get the vaccine.  

so when did that change?

couple months before the election had trials started yet?

first vaccines were when, December?  I got mine in March which I was good with.  

mickeyrat

mcgruff10 said:

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

I do remember in the months leading up to the election a lot of people openly expressed distrust in any vaccine, acting as of Trump himself was mixing chemicals in the whitehouse basement.

I will admit that I definitely didn’t want to be one of the first ones to get the vaccine.  

so when did that change?

couple months before the election had trials started yet?

first vaccines were when, December?  I got mine in March which I was good with.  

ok. so at what point since Dec you became comfortable?

mcgruff10

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

mickeyrat said:

mcgruff10 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

I do remember in the months leading up to the election a lot of people openly expressed distrust in any vaccine, acting as of Trump himself was mixing chemicals in the whitehouse basement.

I will admit that I definitely didn’t want to be one of the first ones to get the vaccine.  

so when did that change?

couple months before the election had trials started yet?

first vaccines were when, December?  I got mine in March which I was good with.  

ok. so at what point since Dec you became comfortable?

I guess around mid to late February.  The more people that got it with no real side effects the more confident I became.  I also talked a lot with my uncle who is a retired epidemiologist at Pfizer.  

FiveBelow

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

Sorry, but this is as ridiculous as some of the tweets that get shared. Do you honestly believe that there hasn’t been a single undocumented case of covid? The 2% mortality rate that you are using is determined from known cases. It is estimated that 40 to 45% of cases are asymptomatic, add to that all of those who may have had light symptoms but never got tested and everyone else in the world that live in a place where testing isn’t as accessible. Testing has not exactly been a bright spot during the pandemic, especially early on and now as testing sites have transitioned to administering vaccines. Either way, herd immunity is obviously not the answer for saving lives but neither is continuing to bring up a rebuttal formed from heavily flawed data. 

mace1229

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

I do remember in the months leading up to the election a lot of people openly expressed distrust in any vaccine, acting as of Trump himself was mixing chemicals in the whitehouse basement.

Many people on this board? Like who?

I didn’t say this board, although there probably were some. No one remembers people being anxious about a vaccine back in September/October?

mrussel1

FiveBelow said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

Sorry, but this is as ridiculous as some of the tweets that get shared. Do you honestly believe that there hasn’t been a single undocumented case of covid? The 2% mortality rate that you are using is determined from known cases. It is estimated that 40 to 45% of cases are asymptomatic, add to that all of those who may have had light symptoms but never got tested and everyone else in the world that live in a place where testing isn’t as accessible. Testing has not exactly been a bright spot during the pandemic, especially early on and now as testing sites have transitioned to administering vaccines. Either way, herd immunity is obviously not the answer for saving lives but neither is continuing to bring up a rebuttal formed from heavily flawed data. 

It's the only data available,  (known cases * mortality rate). So where answer these questions:

- Asymptomatic cases are in the numbers I estimated.  If you're saying "undocumented cases", where are you coming up with those 40-45% number of COVID cases that are undocumented?

-If you were president,  what data would you have used to determine whether herd immunity is the right strategy?

- using your validated numbers (link please), how many deaths would you calculate from herd immunity?

And what number would be your inflection point to determine the number of acceptable human deaths?

FiveBelow

mrussel1 said:

FiveBelow said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

Sorry, but this is as ridiculous as some of the tweets that get shared. Do you honestly believe that there hasn’t been a single undocumented case of covid? The 2% mortality rate that you are using is determined from known cases. It is estimated that 40 to 45% of cases are asymptomatic, add to that all of those who may have had light symptoms but never got tested and everyone else in the world that live in a place where testing isn’t as accessible. Testing has not exactly been a bright spot during the pandemic, especially early on and now as testing sites have transitioned to administering vaccines. Either way, herd immunity is obviously not the answer for saving lives but neither is continuing to bring up a rebuttal formed from heavily flawed data. 

It's the only data available,  (known cases * mortality rate). So where answer these questions:

- Asymptomatic cases are in the numbers I estimated.  If you're saying "undocumented cases", where are you coming up with those 40-45% number of COVID cases that are undocumented?

-If you were president,  what data would you have used to determine whether herd immunity is the right strategy?

- using your validated numbers (link please), how many deaths would you calculate from herd immunity?

And what number would be your inflection point to determine the number of acceptable human deaths?

If you can’t understand how potentially flawed the data is based on knowing the rate of asymptomatic cases, there is no point. I don’t pretend to play president because I am not a member of either fraternity. Logic points to a much lower number than your 122 million, but I will not pretend to know because the data is not accurate as to how many people have actually had covid. There isn’t an acceptable number of human deaths. If you want to play politics you are talking to the wrong person.

static111

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

I do remember in the months leading up to the election a lot of people openly expressed distrust in any vaccine, acting as of Trump himself was mixing chemicals in the whitehouse basement.

Many people on this board? Like who?

I didn’t say this board, although there probably were some. No one remembers people being anxious about a vaccine back in September/October?

Still anxious about the vaccine, also still planning to get one when I can.

mrussel1

FiveBelow said:

mrussel1 said:

FiveBelow said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

Sorry, but this is as ridiculous as some of the tweets that get shared. Do you honestly believe that there hasn’t been a single undocumented case of covid? The 2% mortality rate that you are using is determined from known cases. It is estimated that 40 to 45% of cases are asymptomatic, add to that all of those who may have had light symptoms but never got tested and everyone else in the world that live in a place where testing isn’t as accessible. Testing has not exactly been a bright spot during the pandemic, especially early on and now as testing sites have transitioned to administering vaccines. Either way, herd immunity is obviously not the answer for saving lives but neither is continuing to bring up a rebuttal formed from heavily flawed data. 

It's the only data available,  (known cases * mortality rate). So where answer these questions:

- Asymptomatic cases are in the numbers I estimated.  If you're saying "undocumented cases", where are you coming up with those 40-45% number of COVID cases that are undocumented?

-If you were president,  what data would you have used to determine whether herd immunity is the right strategy?

- using your validated numbers (link please), how many deaths would you calculate from herd immunity?

And what number would be your inflection point to determine the number of acceptable human deaths?

If you can’t understand how potentially flawed the data is based on knowing the rate of asymptomatic cases, there is no point. I don’t pretend to play president because I am not a member of either fraternity. Logic points to a much lower number than your 122 million, but I will not pretend to know because the data is not accurate as to how many people have actually had covid. There isn’t an acceptable number of human deaths. If you want to play politics you are talking to the wrong person.

Your statement makes no sense.  You said we know the number of asymptomatic cases. By definition,  those would be in the worldwide case numbers, therefore accounted for in my calculations.  

Now to be sure,  there's an MOE in the numbers I provided,  but what is that margin? Is it +/- 5%? 10?  Or are you saying it's orders of magnitude off,

Edit - if if you're right that cases are understated by 40%, which you've provided no evidence, that would bring the mortality rate down to 1.5%.  And therefore the number of deaths would be 91.5 million.  

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

FiveBelow said:

mrussel1 said:

FiveBelow said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

Sorry, but this is as ridiculous as some of the tweets that get shared. Do you honestly believe that there hasn’t been a single undocumented case of covid? The 2% mortality rate that you are using is determined from known cases. It is estimated that 40 to 45% of cases are asymptomatic, add to that all of those who may have had light symptoms but never got tested and everyone else in the world that live in a place where testing isn’t as accessible. Testing has not exactly been a bright spot during the pandemic, especially early on and now as testing sites have transitioned to administering vaccines. Either way, herd immunity is obviously not the answer for saving lives but neither is continuing to bring up a rebuttal formed from heavily flawed data. 

It's the only data available,  (known cases * mortality rate). So where answer these questions:

- Asymptomatic cases are in the numbers I estimated.  If you're saying "undocumented cases", where are you coming up with those 40-45% number of COVID cases that are undocumented?

-If you were president,  what data would you have used to determine whether herd immunity is the right strategy?

- using your validated numbers (link please), how many deaths would you calculate from herd immunity?

And what number would be your inflection point to determine the number of acceptable human deaths?

If you can’t understand how potentially flawed the data is based on knowing the rate of asymptomatic cases, there is no point. I don’t pretend to play president because I am not a member of either fraternity. Logic points to a much lower number than your 122 million, but I will not pretend to know because the data is not accurate as to how many people have actually had covid. There isn’t an acceptable number of human deaths. If you want to play politics you are talking to the wrong person.

Your statement makes no sense.  You said we know the number of asymptomatic cases. By definition,  those would be in the worldwide case numbers, therefore accounted for in my calculations.  

Now to be sure,  there's an MOE in the numbers I provided,  but what is that margin? Is it +/- 5%? 10?  Or are you saying it's orders of magnitude off,

Edit - if if you're right that cases are understated by 40%, which you've provided no evidence, that would bring the mortality rate down to 1.5%.  And therefore the number of deaths would be 91.5 million.  

Or 4,800,000 +/- in ‘Murica. Hell, 560,000 seems acceptable to some.

FiveBelow

mrussel1 said:

FiveBelow said:

mrussel1 said:

FiveBelow said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

Sorry, but this is as ridiculous as some of the tweets that get shared. Do you honestly believe that there hasn’t been a single undocumented case of covid? The 2% mortality rate that you are using is determined from known cases. It is estimated that 40 to 45% of cases are asymptomatic, add to that all of those who may have had light symptoms but never got tested and everyone else in the world that live in a place where testing isn’t as accessible. Testing has not exactly been a bright spot during the pandemic, especially early on and now as testing sites have transitioned to administering vaccines. Either way, herd immunity is obviously not the answer for saving lives but neither is continuing to bring up a rebuttal formed from heavily flawed data. 

It's the only data available,  (known cases * mortality rate). So where answer these questions:

- Asymptomatic cases are in the numbers I estimated.  If you're saying "undocumented cases", where are you coming up with those 40-45% number of COVID cases that are undocumented?

-If you were president,  what data would you have used to determine whether herd immunity is the right strategy?

- using your validated numbers (link please), how many deaths would you calculate from herd immunity?

And what number would be your inflection point to determine the number of acceptable human deaths?

If you can’t understand how potentially flawed the data is based on knowing the rate of asymptomatic cases, there is no point. I don’t pretend to play president because I am not a member of either fraternity. Logic points to a much lower number than your 122 million, but I will not pretend to know because the data is not accurate as to how many people have actually had covid. There isn’t an acceptable number of human deaths. If you want to play politics you are talking to the wrong person.

Your statement makes no sense.  You said we know the number of asymptomatic cases. By definition,  those would be in the worldwide case numbers, therefore accounted for in my calculations.  

Now to be sure,  there's an MOE in the numbers I provided,  but what is that margin? Is it +/- 5%? 10?  Or are you saying it's orders of magnitude off,

Edit - if if you're right that cases are understated by 40%, which you've provided no evidence, that would bring the mortality rate down to 1.5%.  And therefore the number of deaths would be 91.5 million.  

I am not making claims that 122 million is the cost of herd immunity. I am simply pointing out that it is not accurate based on what we do know. If you are standing by 122 million then I’ll answer the question I asked you. You believe that there have been 0 undocumented cases of covid.

mrussel1

FiveBelow said:

mrussel1 said:

FiveBelow said:

mrussel1 said:

FiveBelow said:

mrussel1 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

If Donald John Trump was still in office and was touting his “warp speed, big and beautiful vaccine”, I have to think this thread would have a different tone based on most of the responses here.  I feel like most, not all, are so blinded by your politics you cannot think critically.

You would think wrong. All of us are smart enough to know that Trump didn't actually make the vaccine,  nor test it.  

122 million dead under herd strategy.  That's what you're advocating.  And you advocate it AFTER knowing the death toll and that we have multiple vaccines. 

Sorry, but this is as ridiculous as some of the tweets that get shared. Do you honestly believe that there hasn’t been a single undocumented case of covid? The 2% mortality rate that you are using is determined from known cases. It is estimated that 40 to 45% of cases are asymptomatic, add to that all of those who may have had light symptoms but never got tested and everyone else in the world that live in a place where testing isn’t as accessible. Testing has not exactly been a bright spot during the pandemic, especially early on and now as testing sites have transitioned to administering vaccines. Either way, herd immunity is obviously not the answer for saving lives but neither is continuing to bring up a rebuttal formed from heavily flawed data. 

It's the only data available,  (known cases * mortality rate). So where answer these questions:

- Asymptomatic cases are in the numbers I estimated.  If you're saying "undocumented cases", where are you coming up with those 40-45% number of COVID cases that are undocumented?

-If you were president,  what data would you have used to determine whether herd immunity is the right strategy?

- using your validated numbers (link please), how many deaths would you calculate from herd immunity?

And what number would be your inflection point to determine the number of acceptable human deaths?

If you can’t understand how potentially flawed the data is based on knowing the rate of asymptomatic cases, there is no point. I don’t pretend to play president because I am not a member of either fraternity. Logic points to a much lower number than your 122 million, but I will not pretend to know because the data is not accurate as to how many people have actually had covid. There isn’t an acceptable number of human deaths. If you want to play politics you are talking to the wrong person.

Your statement makes no sense.  You said we know the number of asymptomatic cases. By definition,  those would be in the worldwide case numbers, therefore accounted for in my calculations.  

Now to be sure,  there's an MOE in the numbers I provided,  but what is that margin? Is it +/- 5%? 10?  Or are you saying it's orders of magnitude off,

Edit - if if you're right that cases are understated by 40%, which you've provided no evidence, that would bring the mortality rate down to 1.5%.  And therefore the number of deaths would be 91.5 million.  

I am not making claims that 122 million is the cost of herd immunity. I am simply pointing out that it is not accurate based on what we do know. If you are standing by 122 million then I’ll answer the question I asked you. You believe that there have been 0 undocumented cases of covid.

I literally just factored your 40% number into it for 91.5 million.  Now where did you get that number and are you now saying the number is again too high? I would argue that the mortality rate would increase due to mass over crowding at hospitals. 

If my number is wrong,  even using your data,  then show me your calculations.