The coronavirus

HughFreakingDillon

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I get private companies doing that. But the government?

But what's the difference really?  I don't get why you think it's bad that there is a lottery for getting a vaccine.  If we're worried about the next emergency authorization, I'd argue that people getting the shot now, that were on the fence, will give them more confidence in the future.  It's not going to be... "well I"m not getting a vax unless I'm entered in teh lottery". 

the government paying people to get a vaccine erodes trust in the vaccine. 

and as to your last statement? I can guarantee there are going to be people that got it in good faith that are pissed they don't get the "reward", and will hesitate the next time around. 

Why does it erode trust?  I don't get that connection and it's not supported by the spike in vaccines since they announced the incentives.  Second, anyone who is pissed that they didn't get a million dollars is kind of insane.  Are they pissed every Saturday when they don't win 40 million?

https://globalnews.ca/news/7887948/vaccine-incentives-manitoba/

I'm not saying it won't lead to increase in vaccinations. I'm more worried about long term implications I've already mentioned. 

cincybearcat

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

US is 50% adult fully vaxed.  That feels pretty solid.  I really like the 5 lottery drawings that Ohio is offering, a million each to induce vaxes.  Really great idea by a Republican Gov that has managed the pandemic very well.  I think the under 18 population vax levels will be very high.  There's a strange cultural thing happening where teens are pressuring each other to get it done and it's a point of pride. Good for them. 

ohio also is offering 5 full ride scholarships along with mil drawings

Yes they are. DeWine had done a great job followed up by caving to lobby groups. Still, overall not bad.

while I’m registered for it, I’m not a fan of the $1 million give away.

I am super in support of the scholarship giveaway. Personally think they should have used the $5 million from the other lottery to pay for even more scholarships. 

i'm sure you'll be a fan if you win. lol

I'm definitely not going to turn it down.  Why not me?

Weston1283

As someone who works in health care and sees how much insurance companies charge/spend/reimburse and many times waste, in my opinion, on some things:

5 million dollars and full ride college scholarships to get people to get vaccinated for the worst pandemic in 100 years is arguably the best use of government money I have ever witnessed

I know they are different entities, but if the vaccination rate spikes up even a few % points because people want a shot at a million bucks, it’s absolutely worth it

Weston1283

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

 I really like the 5 lottery drawings that Ohio is offering, a million each to induce vaxes. 

I, on the other hand, can't even put into words how much I hate this. 

Why?  According to Dewine, vaccines spiked 45% since he announced it.  Shots to young people spiked 90+% with the 15 full rides.  This seems like the best use of $5MM that I could think of. 

Hey I said I can't put into words. I guess I'll try for the sake of conversation though...

A MILLION DOLLARS??? For five people who don't give a fuck about their own health enough to protect it? No rewards for all of us who just got the vaccine without complaining about it of course. 

I'm of the belief that to hell with people that don't want to get the vaccine. They can catch the virus and deal with it. Or maybe they won't catch the virus, which would be even better. But if the vaccine doesn't stop the spread of the virus, why are we begging people to get the vaccine? To protect themselves? Fuck 'em. 

But even if I supported incentives (which isn't the worst idea), A MILLION FUCKING DOLLARS? A million dollars. I can't believe anybody would support this. I hope the five people that win the million are MAGA-flag waving idiots that held out on getting the vaccine because Biden wanted them to get it, were enticed by this stupid lottery that you really like, and then rub it in all our faces that they got rich doing the exact same thing millions of us already did. 

It’s not just for newly vaccinated people, though.  Anyone who was vaccinated at any point is eligible to win.

I was vaccinated when it got approved on December 16th and I was able to enter to win (since My license and permanent residence is still Ohio)

Lets say that it leads to a 10% increase in vaccinations in Ohio, taking it from 50 to 60% or whatever the number is.  The winner is 80% likely to have gotten the vaccine before this was announced, and it will end up being a “thank you for getting vaccinated” reward rather than that money going to someone who needed To be incentivized.  

It’s genius, really.

Ledbetterman10

Weston1283 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

 I really like the 5 lottery drawings that Ohio is offering, a million each to induce vaxes. 

I, on the other hand, can't even put into words how much I hate this. 

Why?  According to Dewine, vaccines spiked 45% since he announced it.  Shots to young people spiked 90+% with the 15 full rides.  This seems like the best use of $5MM that I could think of. 

Hey I said I can't put into words. I guess I'll try for the sake of conversation though...

A MILLION DOLLARS??? For five people who don't give a fuck about their own health enough to protect it? No rewards for all of us who just got the vaccine without complaining about it of course. 

I'm of the belief that to hell with people that don't want to get the vaccine. They can catch the virus and deal with it. Or maybe they won't catch the virus, which would be even better. But if the vaccine doesn't stop the spread of the virus, why are we begging people to get the vaccine? To protect themselves? Fuck 'em. 

But even if I supported incentives (which isn't the worst idea), A MILLION FUCKING DOLLARS? A million dollars. I can't believe anybody would support this. I hope the five people that win the million are MAGA-flag waving idiots that held out on getting the vaccine because Biden wanted them to get it, were enticed by this stupid lottery that you really like, and then rub it in all our faces that they got rich doing the exact same thing millions of us already did. 

It’s not just for newly vaccinated people, though.  Anyone who was vaccinated at any point is eligible to win.

I was vaccinated when it got approved on December 16th and I was able to enter to win (since My license and permanent residence is still Ohio)

Lets say that it leads to a 10% increase in vaccinations in Ohio, taking it from 50 to 60% or whatever the number is.  The winner is 80% likely to have gotten the vaccine before this was announced, and it will end up being a “thank you for getting vaccinated” reward rather than that money going to someone who needed To be incentivized.  

It’s genius, really.

Well at least people that were already vaccinated are eligible. Still don’t think anyone deserves a prize for being vaccinated though. 

lastexitlondon

Make me a winner 

HughFreakingDillon

I'll say it again for those in the back: IT'S NOT ABOUT THE COST TO GOVERNMENT. it's about the precedent and message it sends. 

I believe in natural consequences: you get vaxxed? you get a passport and can do shit. don't get vaxxed? you can't. 

lastexitlondon

Fact

mrussel1

HughFreakingDillon said:

I'll say it again for those in the back: IT'S NOT ABOUT THE COST TO GOVERNMENT. it's about the precedent and message it sends. 

I believe in natural consequences: you get vaxxed? you get a passport and can do shit. don't get vaxxed? you can't. 

I don't buy the precedent argument.  First, I don't think (or hope) that we have another once in a century pandemic in a time where we all remember this.  Second, if people get vaxed because they get a chance to win money, and don't die or have a micro chip inserted, I think they will be LESS likely to resist vaccines next time, not more likely.  

Weston1283

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I'll say it again for those in the back: IT'S NOT ABOUT THE COST TO GOVERNMENT. it's about the precedent and message it sends. 

I believe in natural consequences: you get vaxxed? you get a passport and can do shit. don't get vaxxed? you can't. 

I don't buy the precedent argument.  First, I don't think (or hope) that we have another once in a century pandemic in a time where we all remember this.  Second, if people get vaxed because they get a chance to win money, and don't die or have a micro chip inserted, I think they will be LESS likely to resist vaccines next time, not more likely.  

I don’t buy it either.  This is about getting out of a shit storm in the now.  

When the next once in a century pandemic hits in 100 years, no ones going to remember the Ohio vaccine lottery

Meltdown99

U.S. border to re-open June 22

Unilateral move by the U.S. government

https://www.allpointbulletin.com/stories/us-border-to-re-open-june-22,16610

PJNB

Meltdown99 said:

U.S. border to re-open June 22

Unilateral move by the U.S. government

https://www.allpointbulletin.com/stories/us-border-to-re-open-june-22,16610

I saw this too but how can US borders be opened before Canadian borders? They can't. BC's earliest that they will allow Canada wide recreational travel is July 1st. Hopefully it happens this summer I just can't see it that soon. 

HughFreakingDillon

it doesn't have to be a pandemic. it can be any public health issue. you start bribing people to be healthy and care for their fellow human being, you run the risk of low uptake if you don't offer it next time. 

mickeyrat

 Mike DeWine Scholarships Education Government and politics Ohio Coronavirus pandemic Coronavirus vaccine Ohio to announce 1st winners of Vax-a-Million lottery By ANDREW WELSH-HUGGINS 12 mins ago COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — The names of two lucky Ohioans, an adult and a child, will be announced Wednesday night as the first winners of the state's Vax-a-Million incentive prizes which include $1 million for those 18 and older and a full-ride college scholarship for teens.  Republican Gov. Mike DeWine announced the program May 12 to boost lagging vaccination rates. More than 2.7 million adults registered for the money prize and more than 100,000 children ages 12 to 17 entered for the scholarship, which includes tuition, room and board, and books.  Four more winners of the $1 million and a college scholarship will be announced each Wednesday for the next four weeks.  The Ohio Lottery conducted the first drawing Monday afternoon at its draw studio in Cleveland using a random number generator to pick the winners ahead of time, and then confirmed the eligibility of the ultimate winner.  Participants must register to enter by phone or via the Vax-a-Million website. Teens can register themselves, but parents or legal guardians must verify their eligibility. The names of entrants who don't win will be carried over week to week.  “I know that some may say, ‘DeWine, you’re crazy! This million-dollar drawing idea of yours is a waste of money,’” the governor said when he announced the incentive. But with the vaccine now readily available, the real waste, “is a life lost to COVID-19,” the governor said.  The concept seemed to work, at least initially. The number of people in Ohio age 16 and older who received their initial COVID-19 vaccine jumped 33% in the week after the state announced its million-dollar incentive lottery, according to an Associated Press analysis.  But the same review also found that vaccination rates are still well below figures from earlier in April and March.  More than 5.2 million people in Ohio had at least started the vaccination process as of Monday, or about 45% of the state. About 4.6 million people are done getting vaccinated, or 39% of the state. Nationally, more than 165 million Americans have started the vaccination process, or about nearly 50% of the population. More than 131 million are fully vaccinated, or nearly 40%.  Vax-a-Million is open to permanent Ohio residents who have received either the one-dose Johnson & Johnson vaccine or their first part of the two-dose Pfizer or Moderna vaccination.  DeWine’s proposal inspired similar vaccine-incentive lotteries in Colorado, Maryland, New York state and Oregon.  In Colorado, Democratic Gov. Jared Polis says the state will have a weekly lottery for five residents to win $1 million Tuesday to incentive COVID-19 vaccinations. Colorado is setting aside $5 million of federal coronavirus relief funds that would have gone toward vaccine advertising for five residents to win $1 million each.  ___  Follow AP’s coverage of the pandemic at https://apnews.com/hub/coronavirus-pandemic and https://apnews.com/UnderstandingtheOutbreak.

HughFreakingDillon

i'm glad it works, but man, it's so odd to me that people need an incentive to be kind to others and be responsible with their own health. 

Weston1283

HughFreakingDillon said:

i'm glad it works, but man, it's so odd to me that people need an incentive to be kind to others and be responsible with their own health. 

Oh, no doubt it is odd beyond odd.  But we live in a very odd world.  If it works and helps us get out of the current situation, then so be it.

Weston1283

Interesting...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/05/26/politics/biden-intelligence-community-pandemic-origins-report/index.html

mickeyrat

 In the first Ohio Vax-a-Million drawings, Abbigail Bugenske of Silverton in Hamilton County won a $1 million cash prize and Joseph Costello of Englewood in Montgomery County will be given a full-ride college scholarship, it was announced Wednesday.

oftenreading

PJNB said:

Meltdown99 said:

U.S. border to re-open June 22

Unilateral move by the U.S. government

https://www.allpointbulletin.com/stories/us-border-to-re-open-june-22,16610

I saw this too but how can US borders be opened before Canadian borders? They can't. BC's earliest that they will allow Canada wide recreational travel is July 1st. Hopefully it happens this summer I just can't see it that soon. 

Sure they can. All that the US has control over is whether they allow people into their country across the land border, so it seems that they are deciding to do so. Canada has control over whether they allow people across the land border into Canada, which so far they have declined to do except for Canadian citizens, who have a right to return across the border though are expected to quarantine upon arrival. So it seems that if this unilateral move goes ahead Canadians will be able to cross the land border into the US to vacation, shop, what have you, and then can return to Canada and be required to quarantine. Americans won't be able to cross the border into Canada except for the current exemptions, which include traveling to Alaska plus essential travel.

PJNB

oftenreading said:

PJNB said:

Meltdown99 said:

U.S. border to re-open June 22

Unilateral move by the U.S. government

https://www.allpointbulletin.com/stories/us-border-to-re-open-june-22,16610

I saw this too but how can US borders be opened before Canadian borders? They can't. BC's earliest that they will allow Canada wide recreational travel is July 1st. Hopefully it happens this summer I just can't see it that soon. 

Sure they can. All that the US has control over is whether they allow people into their country across the land border, so it seems that they are deciding to do so. Canada has control over whether they allow people across the land border into Canada, which so far they have declined to do except for Canadian citizens, who have a right to return across the border though are expected to quarantine upon arrival. So it seems that if this unilateral move goes ahead Canadians will be able to cross the land border into the US to vacation, shop, what have you, and then can return to Canada and be required to quarantine. Americans won't be able to cross the border into Canada except for the current exemptions, which include traveling to Alaska plus essential travel.

I probably should of read more carefully with them mentioning its a unilateral move. 

Spunkie

^ ^ So what you're saying... what I read was... we can go to concerts!!!!

oftenreading

tish said:

^ ^ So what you're saying... what I read was... we can go to concerts!!!!

Across the border? Sure, but then again you can right now, if you’re willing to fly. 

PJNB

oftenreading said:

tish said:

^ ^ So what you're saying... what I read was... we can go to concerts!!!!

Across the border? Sure, but then again you can right now, if you’re willing to fly. 

I am sure some, especially those with family or homes in the US, will love this news but until that 14 day quarantine upon returning back to Canada is lifted I do not expect many people will take advantage of this. It is a necessary and welcoming step however to getting the border open and hopefully Canada follows suit sometime in the summer as well. 

cincybearcat

This whole pandemic would be over in the USA if:
1) Churches required proof of vaccination to enter
2) Wal-Mart required proof of vaccination to enter
3) Proof of vaccination required to purchase a gun or ammo

Heck - any 1 of those probably gets us over the hump.  Problem solved.  Let's all go enjoy our summer

mace1229

cincybearcat said:

This whole pandemic would be over in the USA if:
1) Churches required proof of vaccination to enter
2) Wal-Mart required proof of vaccination to enter
3) Proof of vaccination required to purchase a gun or ammo

Heck - any 1 of those probably gets us over the hump.  Problem solved.  Let's all go enjoy our summer

Private small gatherings in homes has always been the biggest spreader by far. I don’t see how you can blame church or Walmart.

OnWis97

mace1229 said:

cincybearcat said:

This whole pandemic would be over in the USA if:
1) Churches required proof of vaccination to enter
2) Wal-Mart required proof of vaccination to enter
3) Proof of vaccination required to purchase a gun or ammo

Heck - any 1 of those probably gets us over the hump.  Problem solved.  Let's all go enjoy our summer

Private small gatherings in homes has always been the biggest spreader by far. I don’t see how you can blame church or Walmart.

I suspect Cincy is implying that the people spreading at those gatherings frequent those places and would vax if they had to in order to get back in.

Imagine if WalMart had a national policy.  Those small gatherings would be safer.

tempo_n_groove

OnWis97 said:

mace1229 said:

cincybearcat said:

This whole pandemic would be over in the USA if:
1) Churches required proof of vaccination to enter
2) Wal-Mart required proof of vaccination to enter
3) Proof of vaccination required to purchase a gun or ammo

Heck - any 1 of those probably gets us over the hump.  Problem solved.  Let's all go enjoy our summer

Private small gatherings in homes has always been the biggest spreader by far. I don’t see how you can blame church or Walmart.

I suspect Cincy is implying that the people spreading at those gatherings frequent those places and would vax if they had to in order to get back in.

Imagine if WalMart had a national policy.  Those small gatherings would be safer.

or that beasbeall game in Texas...

cincybearcat

OnWis97 said:

mace1229 said:

cincybearcat said:

This whole pandemic would be over in the USA if:
1) Churches required proof of vaccination to enter
2) Wal-Mart required proof of vaccination to enter
3) Proof of vaccination required to purchase a gun or ammo

Heck - any 1 of those probably gets us over the hump.  Problem solved.  Let's all go enjoy our summer

Private small gatherings in homes has always been the biggest spreader by far. I don’t see how you can blame church or Walmart.

I suspect Cincy is implying that the people spreading at those gatherings frequent those places and would vax if they had to in order to get back in.

Imagine if WalMart had a national policy.  Those small gatherings would be safer.

Yes.  The people hesitant to or flat out refuse to get the vaccine likely fall into the those 3 categories of people. 

Meltdown99

PJNB said:

Meltdown99 said:

U.S. border to re-open June 22

Unilateral move by the U.S. government

https://www.allpointbulletin.com/stories/us-border-to-re-open-june-22,16610

I saw this too but how can US borders be opened before Canadian borders? They can't. BC's earliest that they will allow Canada wide recreational travel is July 1st. Hopefully it happens this summer I just can't see it that soon. 

They can.  The Us can let Canadians in... it is not up to Canada or Trudeau what the US does with its own border.  Canada can reqiuire quarantine upon return...I will be heading to the US to get my second shot...and if I got to quarantine...then it's worth it.  Do not tell me we are all in this together, we are not...

tbergs

cincybearcat said:

OnWis97 said:

mace1229 said:

cincybearcat said:

This whole pandemic would be over in the USA if:
1) Churches required proof of vaccination to enter
2) Wal-Mart required proof of vaccination to enter
3) Proof of vaccination required to purchase a gun or ammo

Heck - any 1 of those probably gets us over the hump.  Problem solved.  Let's all go enjoy our summer

Private small gatherings in homes has always been the biggest spreader by far. I don’t see how you can blame church or Walmart.

I suspect Cincy is implying that the people spreading at those gatherings frequent those places and would vax if they had to in order to get back in.

Imagine if WalMart had a national policy.  Those small gatherings would be safer.

Yes.  The people hesitant to or flat out refuse to get the vaccine likely fall into the those 3 categories of people. 

Yeah, there's a category there for most of my relatives. My 70+ dad thinks it's all bullshit, but if he gets Covid he's probably done for because his lungs are destroyed from smoking for 60 years. No coincidence my parents live in the 2nd least vaccinated county in the state. Their rates are at 37% for full vaccination and 65+ age is only 60% vaccinated. They're just lucky they live in a rural area that sees very little cases. Most likely one of us or their grandkids will eventually give it to them.