The coronavirus

Spunkie

Spiritual_Chaos

tish said:

Spunkie

^ I guess the unlabeled red line is the U.S.?

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

Oh, and also most concerning, I teach in a school whose windows are BOLTED SHUT. Can't open any of them to get fresh air. Years ago, a student decided to slam a window down on another student's hand. That student lost a finger. Family sued the school, blaming the failure to control the windows. The result? Punish everybody and bolt the windows shut. 

Now that I'm hearing about the aerosols and the air conditioning, I am really nervous.

I know a number of modern buildings have windows that don't open, since that messes with the HVAC system. 

However, I've never met a school that had a properly functioning HVAC system, so that's clearly not the issue. Craziness to not allow fresh air in. 

I’m at my 3rd school in 14 years. The first 2 had windows that couldn’t be opened. They weren’t bolted, just weren’t designed to be opened.
My current school I think most classrooms don’t even have windows. My room has 1 glass door which isn’t meant to be used, but most rooms don’t even have that.

No windows at all? Who designed this - someone with prison experience? 

Most classrooms don’t have an exterior wall. Don’t know if there’s a word for it, but landlocked within the school. A hallway on one side surrounded by 3 other classrooms. If there is a window it’s a small window in the door that we are required to cover up for safety.

what dreams

PJPOWER said:

what dreams said:

Oh, and also most concerning, I teach in a school whose windows are BOLTED SHUT. Can't open any of them to get fresh air. Years ago, a student decided to slam a window down on another student's hand. That student lost a finger. Family sued the school, blaming the failure to control the windows. The result? Punish everybody and bolt the windows shut. 

Now that I'm hearing about the aerosols and the air conditioning, I am really nervous.

Does the local fire marshal approve of bolting the windows shut?  Seems like it could be an issue.

I asked about that. Apparently it's legal.

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

Oh, and also most concerning, I teach in a school whose windows are BOLTED SHUT. Can't open any of them to get fresh air. Years ago, a student decided to slam a window down on another student's hand. That student lost a finger. Family sued the school, blaming the failure to control the windows. The result? Punish everybody and bolt the windows shut. 

Now that I'm hearing about the aerosols and the air conditioning, I am really nervous.

I know a number of modern buildings have windows that don't open, since that messes with the HVAC system. 

However, I've never met a school that had a properly functioning HVAC system, so that's clearly not the issue. Craziness to not allow fresh air in. 

I’m at my 3rd school in 14 years. The first 2 had windows that couldn’t be opened. They weren’t bolted, just weren’t designed to be opened.
My current school I think most classrooms don’t even have windows. My room has 1 glass door which isn’t meant to be used, but most rooms don’t even have that.

No windows at all? Who designed this - someone with prison experience? 

Most classrooms don’t have an exterior wall. Don’t know if there’s a word for it, but landlocked within the school. A hallway on one side surrounded by 3 other classrooms. If there is a window it’s a small window in the door that we are required to cover up for safety.

Really? That's so unlike school design that I'm familiar with here. All the schools I've been involved with, including way back when I was in school, have been designed with pretty much all of the classrooms on an exterior wall, with big windows along at least one side. There is often either a central courtyard, or the centre of the building is used for the gym, meeting rooms, maybe just open space with kids' art, sports trophies (for high school), and the like. 

what dreams

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

mrussel1 said:

what dreams said:

mrussel1 said:

One more thing @bbiggs, I am an advocate for some of the modified schedules I've seen bantied about.  Like cutting class size in half and only half the children attend on a given day, and you work from home the other day.  I'd be okay with sending my daughter into school like that.  I would not be okay with 'normal school' like Trump and Devos are currently pushing.  I'm confident my state of VA won't be so reckless. 

I just watched my school board meeting where the school division task force shared four detail options and how they would work: 100%  attend 4 dyas a week; 50% attend 2 days a week; 25% attend 1 day a week; 100% online. It's such a mess. The only thing I know for certain is that regardless of which option the board votes on next week, I will have a professional development day every Monday. The school board will decide next week.

From a teaching/learning viewpoint, the hybrid models look to be the worst, in my view. The sample schedules they shared for every age group were confusing as hell. The continuity of instruction would be very difficult to maintain if a student is part of a cohort that attends only Thurs/Fri each week, for example. There would be five days before the kid comes back into the building. That's a long gap each week, with varying degrees of supervision and work completion at home in between. Your child would return to a class almost a week later where a teacher most likely would spend the time catching up all the kids who did nothing for the week in between. Not to mention -- the daily schedule would be so disjointed to get all the subjects covered into two days, that kids will have difficulty knowing where they're going week to week. You know how long it takes a middle school kid to figure out a new class schedule at the beginning of the year? Compound that by not doing it every day. 

Also, as a teacher, I don't see how I can effectively plan for/teach live students at the same time I'm planning for/monitoring online instruction. There's just not enough time in the day -- these glorious Mondays I see they have planned for us will be filled up with meetings or online extra help sessions, no real quality planning or grading time. In all this time since we disbanded in March, I still have had practically zero training in effective online learning. The pre-recorded videos we made as a department in the spring took weeks to develop for just one lesson. Each of us was responsible for creating only one over a six-week period (six person department). It took me weeks to create something meaningful and professional; thank god mine was due the fifth week. I'm not a damned videographer, and the district pointed us to some free crap software with 30 minutes of training on it. Nothing has changed since then.

I have been thinking about this a lot and following the task force in my division closely, reading the VDOE receommendations, attending online seminars with the VDOE, etc. In my view, it would be best for kids to go all in, or go all online. I have my preference -- to go back Tues-Fri with everyone -- but I will do what I'm told and make the best of it.

Long way of saying,  everybody out there just needs to accept that this coming school year is another one shot down the hole. Be thankful if you make it out healthy and alive. That's all I'm planning for. 

If we go back full out, what's the point of dropping the Monday from teh schedule?  Isn't it just BAU at that point since everyone is together?

Good question.

No, it's not back to usual on a 100% back plan. Daily schedules would have to change because of social distancing.

For example, we will have to stagger bell times to decrease numbers of students in the hall,  probably lengthening exchange times and lunch times to accommodate. It's possible start and end times will be staggered in the morning and afternoon because of social distancing on the buses. Class sizes will be reduced for social distancing as well, which means teachers will lose their planning period everyday to make up for the need to increase their course load. Monday planning would be critical. If there is ever a time we need it, it's now. We're going to have to completely rethink how we deliver instruction to minimize contact. I can tell you, respecting adequate planning time has always been a contention between teachers and administrators. If we lost it altogether, I guarantee there will be massive pushback from teachers, who are as divided as everybody else on what to do.

Logistically, it makes more sense to do the hybrid to allow for all the distancing. For teachers personally, however, being more at risk than the kids, it doesn't matter. We are still exposed to all of them, whether they are there 1, 2, or 4 days a week. Might as well just see them Tues-Fri to maximize their learning, is the way I see it. Of course, families see it differently. Their lives are more important than the teachers', so there is that to contend with.

Most concerning to me right now is that we don't even have a SCHOOL NURSE to replace the one who decided to retire in the spring. Three core departments--math, English, and science--still have multiple positions to fill in each dept because people left for "better" schools, and I predict more will take LOA or just quit as we approach. We're scheduled to open, for teachers, in three weeks -- understaffed, still no decision, and inadequate training on everything essential for these new times. 

This is kind of typical in education anyway, but the current challenge really has the potential to decimate our school systems. We have created a growing massive teacher shortage due to our culture's hateful language toward teachers and "failing schools" since the inception of No Child Left Behind. You reap what you sow, as they say.

I see, about the teacher planning.  Regarding the safety of the teachers (which I think has been a criminally ignored part of this national conversation), wouldn't the 2/3 day schedule reduce the class size, thereby allowing more distance between the students and teachers?  I'm just struggling to see how 100% capacity isn't a petri dish. 

I'm not saying it isn't more of a petri dish. I just work in a school system where the students really need to be in school as much as possible. The entire district is Title 1, not just individual schools with pockets of poverty. The district has the highest percentage of English language learners in the entire state. High numbers of undocumented families. 100% online learning will be a disaster for them, like it was last spring. The parents are not equipped in our community to "home school." A good 95% of our students report speaking Spanish in the home, largely because the parents don't speak English. How are they going to help their kids learn at home? They won't. Our students will be left at home alone, maybe babysitting younger siblings, while their parents go off to clean houses, build houses, cook and watch dishes in the restaurants that won't close, stock shelves. Some students will go to work with their parents, and not stay home at all. This is the reality in my district.

The hybrid will be way more burdensome from my instructional point of view.  Why would we throw teachers who never trained to be distance learning experts to scramble together some half-assed video lessons while also asking them to attend full time to the kids in their rooms? That is just not sustainable for a teacher over the course of a year. The instructional/technical support is just not there for it. If I were given the right tools, the right training, the adequate amount of time, sure -- bring it on.  But we're not.  I'm going to be asked to do double the work in the same amount of time. And those Mondays? There is also a new "right to furlough" clause in our contract. I predict that I will be furloughed on many of those Mondays -- which if that's the case, I will not be planning for free at home on those days. Nope.

Parents who choose to keep their kids home full time will be given access to a professional online learning platform created by people who are trained and skilled to do such, whose full time job is to work in that platform. That option will be made available for them if they don't want their kid in school full-time, or even if we go hybrid. Trust me, elected school boards will do everything they can to keep those parents happy who have the provilege to keep their kids home.

From a health perspective -- sure, let's all stay home for another year. From a learning perspective, and a human needs perspective, I want to be with my students. One of my biggest worries every single day since this thing started has been the mental, physical, and social welfare of my students. Not every district is like mine, I get that.  But without school, my students -- almost all of them -- will be lost.    

HughFreakingDillon

jerparker20 said:

Regarding kids: Some friends of my family have came down hard with COVID. Both of their small kids (3 and 7) tested positive. One had a fever for a few days, the other was fine. 

Another family I know had to go into quarantine on Monday afternoon due to to positive cases at the daycare their toddler attends. No idea if it was another toddler or staff that was positive, but the daycare is now closed for the next two weeks.

As others mentioned, this idea of a national, one-size fits all approach to sending kids back to school isn’t going to work. What do you do if kids do test positive? shut them down again? Roll with it? Let a few die?

How about close down the bars, restaurants, and other gathering places of adults, and let the schools reopen?

100%. sacrifice for the kids. absolutely. but non-parents won't go for it. 

Spunkie

what dreams

Several weeks ago, I was reminded again in an article about vaccines -- we have never, ever created a successful vaccine against a single coronavirus. That fact gave me pause. Why are we so confident that we will this time? I think this is when my mind began to shift about what we're doing.

I'm not saying we live our lives with reckless abandon. But I think I am better off mentally by adjusting to a new reality instead of hoping a vaccine is going to save us all, including my 79 year old mother in my home whose life is basically in my hands right now. It's a terrible burden, and unless you live it, you don't know. I don't really appreciate being called a callous human being because I have a healthily realistic expectation that someday she is going to die, possibly from CoVid 19. I have had countless moments over the past 5 monthsof wishing she would just pass peacefully while sleeping so she doesn't have to suffer in the end. But I have also had this thought long before CoVid existed. I almost lost her three years ago, so I have had a long time to dwell on the end of her life. 

Instead of dehumanizing people with different points of view about death and sacrifice, I think we would all be better off coming to terms with both. We can sacrifice. There will still be death. 

Merkin Baller

HughFreakingDillon said:

jerparker20 said:

Regarding kids: Some friends of my family have came down hard with COVID. Both of their small kids (3 and 7) tested positive. One had a fever for a few days, the other was fine. 

Another family I know had to go into quarantine on Monday afternoon due to to positive cases at the daycare their toddler attends. No idea if it was another toddler or staff that was positive, but the daycare is now closed for the next two weeks.

As others mentioned, this idea of a national, one-size fits all approach to sending kids back to school isn’t going to work. What do you do if kids do test positive? shut them down again? Roll with it? Let a few die?

How about close down the bars, restaurants, and other gathering places of adults, and let the schools reopen?

100%. sacrifice for the kids. absolutely. but non-parents won't go for it. 

Selfish people won't go for it.

I'm a non parent, and am fully on board with figuring out school before anything else.

PJ_Soul

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

jerparker20 said:

Regarding kids: Some friends of my family have came down hard with COVID. Both of their small kids (3 and 7) tested positive. One had a fever for a few days, the other was fine. 

Another family I know had to go into quarantine on Monday afternoon due to to positive cases at the daycare their toddler attends. No idea if it was another toddler or staff that was positive, but the daycare is now closed for the next two weeks.

As others mentioned, this idea of a national, one-size fits all approach to sending kids back to school isn’t going to work. What do you do if kids do test positive? shut them down again? Roll with it? Let a few die?

How about close down the bars, restaurants, and other gathering places of adults, and let the schools reopen?

100%. sacrifice for the kids. absolutely. but non-parents won't go for it. 

Selfish people won't go for it.

I'm a non parent, and am fully on board with figuring out school before anything else.

Same here.

mace1229

As a teacher and a parent I have some different views.
i don’t know if school is sustainable in its current form the way things are going. Our budget was drastically cut and it is anticipated to be even worse next year. Sports and electives may not be an option in a year or two.
My district taking blended learning off the table was frustrating not only for health reasons, but also financially. It would save a lot of money moving to a blended environment, and while it won’t be better for everyone it would be beneficial to some.
But instead of making cuts to sports and other items like that, they’re just making teachers pay for it. My paycheck is expected to be about $800 less per month next year. We’re not asking any parents in our community to make those sacrifices by charging for buses or a lab fee or sports fee or elective fee. And it just pisses me off because I live in a state where all that is taken for granted and the people don’t support education. Our last bill to fund education failed miserably. It was a 0.15% tax increase only applied to those who make over 100k, and I think it got less that 30% support. That’s $150 a year if you make 100k, that’s not breaking the bank. So the result is to pay me nearly $10,000 less this next year to make the difference.
So I’m caught between wanted to do what’s best for my health, my kids health, what’s best for a learning environment and an F-it attitude when teachers are treated this way in the public eye. If people want to defund education I think they should experience it, take away sports and buses for a year and see the impact, but don’t make me pay for your child. Because now I can’t plan for a future for mine.

mrussel1

Our teachers are criminally underpaid.  It's astonishing how little people are willing to invest in the people that spend 7 hours a day with your kids. 

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

Our teachers are criminally underpaid.  It's astonishing how little people are willing to invest in the people that spend 7 hours a day with your kids. 

Agreed....we should be pumping billions into education each year.  Better pay means better education.  And better resources means better educated children, less crime, etc.

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Our teachers are criminally underpaid.  It's astonishing how little people are willing to invest in the people that spend 7 hours a day with your kids. 

Agreed....we should be pumping billions into education each year.  Better pay means better education.  And better resources means better educated children, less crime, etc.

And a better future for our children and grandchildren.  Alas,  selfishness is the core value of this country. 

Bentleyspop

mrussel1 said:

Our teachers are criminally underpaid.  It's astonishing how little people are willing to invest in the people that spend 7 hours a day with your kids. 

That's  bullshit

Everyone knows that teachers are underworked and overpaid to be the govt. brainwashers of your children.






  

Gern Blansten

What is amazing to me is the out of pocket expenses that teachers incur.  And the government gives them a $250 tax deduction for it....max.

oftenreading

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Our teachers are criminally underpaid.  It's astonishing how little people are willing to invest in the people that spend 7 hours a day with your kids. 

Agreed....we should be pumping billions into education each year.  Better pay means better education.  And better resources means better educated children, less crime, etc.

And thus exactly what "defund the police" means - spend more upfront on education and other resources to support child development, from infancy on up, and you won't have to spend nearly as much on policing and incarceration in the adult years. 

cblock4life

mace1229 said:

As a teacher and a parent I have some different views.
i don’t know if school is sustainable in its current form the way things are going. Our budget was drastically cut and it is anticipated to be even worse next year. Sports and electives may not be an option in a year or two.
My district taking blended learning off the table was frustrating most were 4  only for health reasons, but also financially. It would save a lot of money moving to a blended environment, and while it won’t be better for everyone it would be beneficial to some.
But instead of making cuts to sports and other items like that, they’re just making teachers pay for it. My paycheck is expected to be about $800 less per month next year. We’re not asking any parents in our community to make those sacrifices by charging for buses or a lab fee or sports fee or elective fee. And it just pisses me off because I live in a state where all that is taken for granted and the people don’t support education. Our last bill to fund education failed miserably. It was a 0.15% tax increase only applied to those who make over 100k, and I think it got less that 30% support. That’s $150 a year if you make 100k, that’s not breaking the bank. So the result is to pay me nearly $10,000 less this next year to make the difference.
So I’m caught between wanted to do what’s best for my health, my kids health, what’s best for a learning environment and an F-it attitude when teachers are treated this way in the public eye. If people want to defund education I think they should experience it, take away sports and buses for a year and see the impact, but don’t make me pay for your child. Because now I can’t plan for a future for mine.

Hey I'm sorry about the craziness teachers and schools are going through.  A normal year in public ed is messed up anyway so I'm really glad I'm retired from that (not a teacher, business and operations admin). But you poor teachers......
Did the administrators take a cut in pay? I hope so. 
And I tried the suggestion of charging families for trans 10 years ago and the board freaked.  Our transportation costs were over 4 million.  

How about your union, they were ok with the cut?  That's a huge difference, I really feel bad for all teachers....did your union ask for hazard pay?
Well, just wanted you to know there's a lot of people out here on teachers sides.  Be careful and stay safe and healthy.