The coronavirus

PJPOWER

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Our teachers are criminally underpaid.  It's astonishing how little people are willing to invest in the people that spend 7 hours a day with your kids. 

Not in NY. They retire to a fantastic pension in their 50s and during the Great Recession at the end of the Bush years, their raises were even better than us poor slobs we’re getting in the private sector. And their benefits are state of the art excellent. 

There is something to be said about 30 years of trying to get govt spending into a bathtub. Those voters in red leaning states got what they voted for.

What's the average salary vs a private sector worker with a bachelor's or higher? That's the bar im using.  When a person chooses a major,  choosing education is a sacrifice in my view. 

It's not a sacrifice, it's just a choice.

I consider it an act for the public good,  considering most other degreed jobs pay more and have higher financial upside. 

Definitely not social workers or counselors, which I believe are equally important to society.  Teachers actually make decent $ in Texas, but social workers get the shaft.

bbiggs

F Me In The Brain said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Our teachers are criminally underpaid.  It's astonishing how little people are willing to invest in the people that spend 7 hours a day with your kids. 

Not in NY. They retire to a fantastic pension in their 50s and during the Great Recession at the end of the Bush years, their raises were even better than us poor slobs we’re getting in the private sector. And their benefits are state of the art excellent. 

There is something to be said about 30 years of trying to get govt spending into a bathtub. Those voters in red leaning states got what they voted for.

What's the average salary vs a private sector worker with a bachelor's or higher? That's the bar im using.  When a person chooses a major,  choosing education is a sacrifice in my view. 

It's not a sacrifice, it's just a choice.

I consider it an act for the public good,  considering most other degreed jobs pay more and have higher financial upside. 

I know some degrees workers who make half of what teachers make near me.  
However, they work on social type work and that is horrendously underpaid - far worse than teachers.  (Many of the teachers at our local schools make 100k+.  This is not anyone who is sacrificing.  They do a hard job and I think they earn it - just lining it up with what many other jobs can pay.)

Also, I wish I were only losing $800 a month due to impacts of the virus.  That would be sweet.
Losing way more than that.  (Way.)

If I'm not mistaken, you live in NJ.  I live in IL.  Two of the highest taxed states in the U.S.  What you describe is identical here.  It varies from district to district and also how tenured the teacher is, of course, but I have personally seen many teachers' salaries >$100K.  Many of these folks are nowhere near retirement age.  Factor in 3 months off for Summer and extremely generous pensions and it's not a bad gig.  In IL, a huge percentage of our outrageous (and still growing) real estate tax bills go to the school district and teachers' pensions.  Now, I realize every teacher is not paid at this level and salaries vary from state to state.  I'm also not suggesting that many teachers are not underpaid for what they do.  I just don't know that I can categorize the profession as a sacrifice.  The teachers I know get paid well and love what they do.  Additionally, I regularly see people with higher educations in the private sector that get paid peanuts compared to what an average teacher makes.  A Bachelor's Degree doesn't guarantee much in the way of compensation (nor a Master's Degree in some cases).  All of this said, I hope kids get back to school in a safe learning environment for all.

mrussel1

PJPOWER said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Our teachers are criminally underpaid.  It's astonishing how little people are willing to invest in the people that spend 7 hours a day with your kids. 

Not in NY. They retire to a fantastic pension in their 50s and during the Great Recession at the end of the Bush years, their raises were even better than us poor slobs we’re getting in the private sector. And their benefits are state of the art excellent. 

There is something to be said about 30 years of trying to get govt spending into a bathtub. Those voters in red leaning states got what they voted for.

What's the average salary vs a private sector worker with a bachelor's or higher? That's the bar im using.  When a person chooses a major,  choosing education is a sacrifice in my view. 

It's not a sacrifice, it's just a choice.

I consider it an act for the public good,  considering most other degreed jobs pay more and have higher financial upside. 

Definitely not social workers or counselors, which I believe are equally important to society.  Teachers actually make decent $ in Texas, but social workers get the shaft.

Important, but I won't quibble over equal/more, etc.  It's just astounding to me that we entrust teachers with so many hours per day with our children, but cheap out on the pay side.  

OnWis97

PJPOWER said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Our teachers are criminally underpaid.  It's astonishing how little people are willing to invest in the people that spend 7 hours a day with your kids. 

Not in NY. They retire to a fantastic pension in their 50s and during the Great Recession at the end of the Bush years, their raises were even better than us poor slobs we’re getting in the private sector. And their benefits are state of the art excellent. 

There is something to be said about 30 years of trying to get govt spending into a bathtub. Those voters in red leaning states got what they voted for.

What's the average salary vs a private sector worker with a bachelor's or higher? That's the bar im using.  When a person chooses a major,  choosing education is a sacrifice in my view. 

It's not a sacrifice, it's just a choice.

I consider it an act for the public good,  considering most other degreed jobs pay more and have higher financial upside. 

Definitely not social workers or counselors, which I believe are equally important to society.  Teachers actually make decent $ in Texas, but social workers get the shaft.

My wife's a social worker and it's hard, stressful work.  It's not like she doesn't make a living wage or anything, but per hour (she's probably doing 60 hrs a week) and given the angst, she's definitely not as well compensated compared to anyone else I know with a master's.  I'm guessing she makes about what teachers make, but it took her a while to get there.

They're a different kind of important than teachers...no need to rank 'em.

F Me In The Brain

bbiggs said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Our teachers are criminally underpaid.  It's astonishing how little people are willing to invest in the people that spend 7 hours a day with your kids. 

Not in NY. They retire to a fantastic pension in their 50s and during the Great Recession at the end of the Bush years, their raises were even better than us poor slobs we’re getting in the private sector. And their benefits are state of the art excellent. 

There is something to be said about 30 years of trying to get govt spending into a bathtub. Those voters in red leaning states got what they voted for.

What's the average salary vs a private sector worker with a bachelor's or higher? That's the bar im using.  When a person chooses a major,  choosing education is a sacrifice in my view. 

It's not a sacrifice, it's just a choice.

I consider it an act for the public good,  considering most other degreed jobs pay more and have higher financial upside. 

I know some degrees workers who make half of what teachers make near me.  
However, they work on social type work and that is horrendously underpaid - far worse than teachers.  (Many of the teachers at our local schools make 100k+.  This is not anyone who is sacrificing.  They do a hard job and I think they earn it - just lining it up with what many other jobs can pay.)

Also, I wish I were only losing $800 a month due to impacts of the virus.  That would be sweet.
Losing way more than that.  (Way.)

If I'm not mistaken, you live in NJ.  I live in IL.  Two of the highest taxed states in the U.S.  What you describe is identical here.  It varies from district to district and also how tenured the teacher is, of course, but I have personally seen many teachers' salaries >$100K.  Many of these folks are nowhere near retirement age.  Factor in 3 months off for Summer and extremely generous pensions and it's not a bad gig.  In IL, a huge percentage of our outrageous (and still growing) real estate tax bills go to the school district and teachers' pensions.  Now, I realize every teacher is not paid at this level and salaries vary from state to state.  I'm also not suggesting that many teachers are not underpaid for what they do.  I just don't know that I can categorize the profession as a sacrifice.  The teachers I know get paid well and love what they do.  Additionally, I regularly see people with higher educations in the private sector that get paid peanuts compared to what an average teacher makes.  A Bachelor's Degree doesn't guarantee much in the way of compensation (nor a Master's Degree in some cases).  All of this said, I hope kids get back to school in a safe learning environment for all.

Yep, agree, and in NJ

HughFreakingDillon

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

jerparker20 said:

Regarding kids: Some friends of my family have came down hard with COVID. Both of their small kids (3 and 7) tested positive. One had a fever for a few days, the other was fine. 

Another family I know had to go into quarantine on Monday afternoon due to to positive cases at the daycare their toddler attends. No idea if it was another toddler or staff that was positive, but the daycare is now closed for the next two weeks.

As others mentioned, this idea of a national, one-size fits all approach to sending kids back to school isn’t going to work. What do you do if kids do test positive? shut them down again? Roll with it? Let a few die?

How about close down the bars, restaurants, and other gathering places of adults, and let the schools reopen?

100%. sacrifice for the kids. absolutely. but non-parents won't go for it. 

Selfish people won't go for it.

I'm a non parent, and am fully on board with figuring out school before anything else.

Very true. my bad. 

HughFreakingDillon

what is the mean income of a teacher in the US? all my teacher friends in winnipeg do VERY well (at least to me, obviously it's all relative), and even better if they go back to school to up their education. 

Halifax2TheMax

HughFreakingDillon said:

what is the mean income of a teacher in the US? all my teacher friends in winnipeg do VERY well (at least to me, obviously it's all relative), and even better if they go back to school to up their education. 

Average starting salaries for teachers in the US by state.

http://www.nea.org/home/2017-2018-average-starting-teacher-salary.html

Halifax2TheMax

More teacher salary info

https://www.businessinsider.com/teacher-salary-in-every-state-2018-4

HughFreakingDillon

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what is the mean income of a teacher in the US? all my teacher friends in winnipeg do VERY well (at least to me, obviously it's all relative), and even better if they go back to school to up their education. 

Average starting salaries for teachers in the US by state.

http://www.nea.org/home/2017-2018-average-starting-teacher-salary.html

and in canada, :

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/81-604-x/2017001/t/tbld2.1-eng.htm

F Me In The Brain

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what is the mean income of a teacher in the US? all my teacher friends in winnipeg do VERY well (at least to me, obviously it's all relative), and even better if they go back to school to up their education. 

Average starting salaries for teachers in the US by state.

http://www.nea.org/home/2017-2018-average-starting-teacher-salary.html

That is not a sacrifice, at least given the states I know something about, to have a starting salary where those are shown.

I do not, in any way, take away from teachers...my point was that from what I see in our area it is not a sacrifice.  They make twice (at least) what social workers that I know make. 

If I look at VT, my sister has a Master's Degree and she makes now (after about 20 years in the field) about what a teacher does year 1.  She works in social work but like so many social workers I know she ends up caring for people outside of business hours so that she can have any sort of bank account. 

Don't want to detract from the Virus discussions.  I hope they can get things back on track and find a safe way for schooling. 

PJPOWER

mrussel1 said:

PJPOWER said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Our teachers are criminally underpaid.  It's astonishing how little people are willing to invest in the people that spend 7 hours a day with your kids. 

Not in NY. They retire to a fantastic pension in their 50s and during the Great Recession at the end of the Bush years, their raises were even better than us poor slobs we’re getting in the private sector. And their benefits are state of the art excellent. 

There is something to be said about 30 years of trying to get govt spending into a bathtub. Those voters in red leaning states got what they voted for.

What's the average salary vs a private sector worker with a bachelor's or higher? That's the bar im using.  When a person chooses a major,  choosing education is a sacrifice in my view. 

It's not a sacrifice, it's just a choice.

I consider it an act for the public good,  considering most other degreed jobs pay more and have higher financial upside. 

Definitely not social workers or counselors, which I believe are equally important to society.  Teachers actually make decent $ in Texas, but social workers get the shaft.

Important, but I won't quibble over equal/more, etc.  It's just astounding to me that we entrust teachers with so many hours per day with our children, but cheap out on the pay side.  

I was really just directing this at TX, where teachers are payed pretty well(especially in regards to the average cost of living), but social workers are payed shit.  Just a general complaint   Carry on . To stay on topic, I cannot imagine being a teacher or counselor right now.  During this pandemic chaos, realm are in need of so major incentives to keep the good ones on board.

23scidoo

Cases are getting high every day here cause of the tourism..

tempo_n_groove

Disney opened it's doors to EVERYONE now.

How's that for stopping the spread?

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

Disney opened it's doors to EVERYONE now.

How's that for stopping the spread?

This is strange.  Some articles talk about Disneyland being open but their site says the park is closed but the downtown Disney district (whatever the heck that is) is open.  Confusing.

https://disneyland.disney.go.com/

Halifax2TheMax

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Disney opened it's doors to EVERYONE now.

How's that for stopping the spread?

This is strange.  Some articles talk about Disneyland being open but their site says the park is closed but the downtown Disney district (whatever the heck that is) is open.  Confusing.

https://disneyland.disney.go.com/

Disneyland is in California while Disney World is in Florida. Disney World is opening, I believe.

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

what is the mean income of a teacher in the US? all my teacher friends in winnipeg do VERY well (at least to me, obviously it's all relative), and even better if they go back to school to up their education. 

Not many states would people consider new teachers doing very well here. I say new because most states had retirements cut in or around 2008, teachers getting ready to retire now are  much better off than teachers just starting out will have it.
Inwas born and raised California, after teaching there for 5 years, even though they are high on the list of teacher salaries, it didn’t match the cost of living. A 1600 square foot house can close $800,000 or more in LA. You can’t afford that on 60k. 

I moved to Colorado Springs 8 years ago. I took a big pay cut but the housing was affordable at the time. I didn’t realize health benefits sucked for teachers, something I hadn’t even considered because it wasn’t an issue before. Colorado was beginning a teacher shortage, and to attract new teachers they kept raising the minimum salary while giving veteran teachers a pay freeze. It got to the point where a 1st year teacher was making 40k, but you only recovered $100 raise each year for the first 6 years. Then about $200 after that. A teacher with 12 years of experience was only making about $54k. A teacher getting ready to retire was maybe maybe about 65k.

I got tired of that so I moved an hour north to Denver 1 year ago. Housing is about double, but salaries are better too, it was about a 20k raise but I’m paying more than double the mortgage of a similar house. For the first time in 13 years of teaching I wasn’t struggling financially. But I was told 2 weeks ago I’m getting about a 10k pay cut. So that was short lived. Some may say they were hit harder than that, and I know many were. But when a modest house costs about $450k and you’re making 75k, to be told to expect a 10k reduction to pay is pretty significant.

Meltdown99

Are new cannabis strains key to fighting COVID-19? These Alta. researchers think so

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/are-new-cannabis-strains-key-to-fighting-covid-19-these-alta-researchers-think-so-1.5018962?fbclid=IwAR0QmgHWaZuq1RF35VOTrZ9nDW3AWlGppNKPKlgT0u8MmmEY94ysh2jgrGo

just read that both trump and Biden are opposed to cannabis legalization.  America will never be a progressive country...

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Disney opened it's doors to EVERYONE now.

How's that for stopping the spread?

This is strange.  Some articles talk about Disneyland being open but their site says the park is closed but the downtown Disney district (whatever the heck that is) is open.  Confusing.

https://disneyland.disney.go.com/

Disneyland is in California while Disney World is in Florida. Disney World is opening, I believe.

Yes, correct.  I should have stated that.  Disney World is opening.

tempo_n_groove

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

what is the mean income of a teacher in the US? all my teacher friends in winnipeg do VERY well (at least to me, obviously it's all relative), and even better if they go back to school to up their education. 

Not many states would people consider new teachers doing very well here. I say new because most states had retirements cut in or around 2008, teachers getting ready to retire now are  much better off than teachers just starting out will have it.
Inwas born and raised California, after teaching there for 5 years, even though they are high on the list of teacher salaries, it didn’t match the cost of living. A 1600 square foot house can close $800,000 or more in LA. You can’t afford that on 60k. 

I moved to Colorado Springs 8 years ago. I took a big pay cut but the housing was affordable at the time. I didn’t realize health benefits sucked for teachers, something I hadn’t even considered because it wasn’t an issue before. Colorado was beginning a teacher shortage, and to attract new teachers they kept raising the minimum salary while giving veteran teachers a pay freeze. It got to the point where a 1st year teacher was making 40k, but you only recovered $100 raise each year for the first 6 years. Then about $200 after that. A teacher with 12 years of experience was only making about $54k. A teacher getting ready to retire was maybe maybe about 65k.

I got tired of that so I moved an hour north to Denver 1 year ago. Housing is about double, but salaries are better too, it was about a 20k raise but I’m paying more than double the mortgage of a similar house. For the first time in 13 years of teaching I wasn’t struggling financially. But I was told 2 weeks ago I’m getting about a 10k pay cut. So that was short lived. Some may say they were hit harder than that, and I know many were. But when a modest house costs about $450k and you’re making 75k, to be told to expect a 10k reduction to pay is pretty significant.

That is NY prices right there, only we get taxed even more.  If you don't have 2 incomes totaling 150k or more you aren't owning a house right now.