The coronavirus

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  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,536
    edited March 2020
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    What he references in the letter (reposted below) is pretty specific. He's frustrated that there isn't more direction on the exact sorts of things needed to make a decision on whether it's safe to tour. So they're playing it cautiously. I read it as there could have been a scenario where, with stronger direction or better assurances that this was being handled, the tour could have gone on. Honestly, I think his words are really tempered - not only does he not mention Trump specifically, he references the government versus this administration. It sounds like you and I would agree on a lot about China's culpability in this mess, but those things don't really factor into a domestic tour decision.



    It certainly hasn’t helped that there’s been no clear messages from our government regarding people’s safety and our ability to go to work. Having no examples of our national health department’s ability to get ahead of this, we have no reason to believe that it will be under control in the coming weeks ahead. 
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,239
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    Are they touring China? Must have missed that announcement.
    Are they touring anywhere? And why not? And where did it start? And why can’t we say anything about that? 
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,239
    cincybearcat said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    Are they touring China? Must have missed that announcement.
    Yeah no reason for any of that in the letter.

    I do agree with the sentiment that the world should have discussions with China regarding this.  And businesses should take this into consideration for future as well.  There is a cost to that low cost labor and propping up that government. 
    Yes. No reason for that in the letter. I’m just bringing up a point that no one stands up to China and it’s getting bad. 
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,474
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    What he references in the letter (reposted below) is pretty specific. He's frustrated that there isn't more direction on the exact sorts of things needed to make a decision on whether it's safe to tour. So they're playing it cautiously. I read it as there could have been a scenario where, with stronger direction or better assurances that this was being handled, the tour could have gone on. Honestly, I think his words are really tempered - not only does he not mention Trump specifically, he references the government versus this administration. It sounds like you and I would agree on a lot about China's culpability in this mess, but those things don't really factor into a domestic tour decision.



    It certainly hasn’t helped that there’s been no clear messages from our government regarding people’s safety and our ability to go to work. Having no examples of our national health department’s ability to get ahead of this, we have no reason to believe that it will be under control in the coming weeks ahead. 
    @nicknyr15

    Read and get up to speed. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,239
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    What he references in the letter (reposted below) is pretty specific. He's frustrated that there isn't more direction on the exact sorts of things needed to make a decision on whether it's safe to tour. So they're playing it cautiously. I read it as there could have been a scenario where, with stronger direction or better assurances that this was being handled, the tour could have gone on. Honestly, I think his words are really tempered - not only does he not mention Trump specifically, he references the government versus this administration. It sounds like you and I would agree on a lot about China's culpability in this mess, but those things don't really factor into a domestic tour decision.



    It certainly hasn’t helped that there’s been no clear messages from our government regarding people’s safety and our ability to go to work. Having no examples of our national health department’s ability to get ahead of this, we have no reason to believe that it will be under control in the coming weeks ahead. 
    I agree 100%. I didn’t mean it literally. All I’m saying is it’s a lot easier to blame everyone and everything, except China. How are we supposed to progress when one of the largest nations seem to not give a shit? 
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,836
    nicknyr15 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    Are they touring China? Must have missed that announcement.
    Yeah no reason for any of that in the letter.

    I do agree with the sentiment that the world should have discussions with China regarding this.  And businesses should take this into consideration for future as well.  There is a cost to that low cost labor and propping up that government. 
    Yes. No reason for that in the letter. I’m just bringing up a point that no one stands up to China and it’s getting bad. 
    Yes, they created a pandemic that has taken lives and cost people a lot of $$$$$$$$...... once things settle down in the containment/management of the issue, it would be extremely irresponsible to ignore what happened and continue to let china get away with this type of nonsense.  

    It would be the equivalent of someone hitting your car, killing your passenger but once you are ok medically and your car is back to 100% (all by you paying for it) that you just forget about the negligent driver that caused the accident and there are no penalties.  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,474
    nicknyr15 said:

    . How are we supposed to progress when one of the largest nations seem to not give a shit? 
    Don't throw stones in glass houses.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    nicknyr15 said:
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    What he references in the letter (reposted below) is pretty specific. He's frustrated that there isn't more direction on the exact sorts of things needed to make a decision on whether it's safe to tour. So they're playing it cautiously. I read it as there could have been a scenario where, with stronger direction or better assurances that this was being handled, the tour could have gone on. Honestly, I think his words are really tempered - not only does he not mention Trump specifically, he references the government versus this administration. It sounds like you and I would agree on a lot about China's culpability in this mess, but those things don't really factor into a domestic tour decision.



    It certainly hasn’t helped that there’s been no clear messages from our government regarding people’s safety and our ability to go to work. Having no examples of our national health department’s ability to get ahead of this, we have no reason to believe that it will be under control in the coming weeks ahead. 
    I agree 100%. I didn’t mean it literally. All I’m saying is it’s a lot easier to blame everyone and everything, except China. How are we supposed to progress when one of the largest nations seem to not give a shit? 

    The US gov? 

    now I am confused
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,239
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    nicknyr15 said:

    . How are we supposed to progress when one of the largest nations seem to not give a shit? 
    Don't throw stones in glass houses.
    Don’t compare the US to China. We still allow Winnie the Pooh to exist. Ok mr perfect?
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,239
    cincybearcat said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    Are they touring China? Must have missed that announcement.
    Yeah no reason for any of that in the letter.

    I do agree with the sentiment that the world should have discussions with China regarding this.  And businesses should take this into consideration for future as well.  There is a cost to that low cost labor and propping up that government. 
    Yes. No reason for that in the letter. I’m just bringing up a point that no one stands up to China and it’s getting bad. 
    Yes, they created a pandemic that has taken lives and cost people a lot of $$$$$$$$...... once things settle down in the containment/management of the issue, it would be extremely irresponsible to ignore what happened and continue to let china get away with this type of nonsense.  

    It would be the equivalent of someone hitting your car, killing your passenger but once you are ok medically and your car is back to 100% (all by you paying for it) that you just forget about the negligent driver that caused the accident and there are no penalties.  
    Thank you. Wow. Maybe I’m not that great at getting my point across but at least one person gets it 
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,536
    nicknyr15 said:
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    What he references in the letter (reposted below) is pretty specific. He's frustrated that there isn't more direction on the exact sorts of things needed to make a decision on whether it's safe to tour. So they're playing it cautiously. I read it as there could have been a scenario where, with stronger direction or better assurances that this was being handled, the tour could have gone on. Honestly, I think his words are really tempered - not only does he not mention Trump specifically, he references the government versus this administration. It sounds like you and I would agree on a lot about China's culpability in this mess, but those things don't really factor into a domestic tour decision.



    It certainly hasn’t helped that there’s been no clear messages from our government regarding people’s safety and our ability to go to work. Having no examples of our national health department’s ability to get ahead of this, we have no reason to believe that it will be under control in the coming weeks ahead. 
    I agree 100%. I didn’t mean it literally. All I’m saying is it’s a lot easier to blame everyone and everything, except China. How are we supposed to progress when one of the largest nations seem to not give a shit? 
    I brought this up in one of these threads, but no one seems to give a shit about their Uyghur slave camps or rampant IP theft either. This is just one piece of a large problem that an awful lot of people are ignoring. Given that this letter was about postponing a domestic tour, I wouldn't expect Ed to use that platform to take a swipe at China. Pearl Jam doesn't really have any business there. At least nothing compared to Nike, Apple, the NBA, etc.
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,239
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    What he references in the letter (reposted below) is pretty specific. He's frustrated that there isn't more direction on the exact sorts of things needed to make a decision on whether it's safe to tour. So they're playing it cautiously. I read it as there could have been a scenario where, with stronger direction or better assurances that this was being handled, the tour could have gone on. Honestly, I think his words are really tempered - not only does he not mention Trump specifically, he references the government versus this administration. It sounds like you and I would agree on a lot about China's culpability in this mess, but those things don't really factor into a domestic tour decision.



    It certainly hasn’t helped that there’s been no clear messages from our government regarding people’s safety and our ability to go to work. Having no examples of our national health department’s ability to get ahead of this, we have no reason to believe that it will be under control in the coming weeks ahead. 
    I agree 100%. I didn’t mean it literally. All I’m saying is it’s a lot easier to blame everyone and everything, except China. How are we supposed to progress when one of the largest nations seem to not give a shit? 
    I brought this up in one of these threads, but no one seems to give a shit about their Uyghur slave camps or rampant IP theft either. This is just one piece of a large problem that an awful lot of people are ignoring. Given that this letter was about postponing a domestic tour, I wouldn't expect Ed to use that platform to take a swipe at China. Pearl Jam doesn't really have any business there. At least nothing compared to Nike, Apple, the NBA, etc.
    I agree. I was speaking figuratively about the letter. It’s odd that no one gives a shit about what goes on there. Maybe if Trump loses, then some people can move their obsession to this subject. 
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    edited March 2020
    nicknyr15 said:
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    What he references in the letter (reposted below) is pretty specific. He's frustrated that there isn't more direction on the exact sorts of things needed to make a decision on whether it's safe to tour. So they're playing it cautiously. I read it as there could have been a scenario where, with stronger direction or better assurances that this was being handled, the tour could have gone on. Honestly, I think his words are really tempered - not only does he not mention Trump specifically, he references the government versus this administration. It sounds like you and I would agree on a lot about China's culpability in this mess, but those things don't really factor into a domestic tour decision.



    It certainly hasn’t helped that there’s been no clear messages from our government regarding people’s safety and our ability to go to work. Having no examples of our national health department’s ability to get ahead of this, we have no reason to believe that it will be under control in the coming weeks ahead. 
    I agree 100%. I didn’t mean it literally. All I’m saying is it’s a lot easier to blame everyone and everything, except China. How are we supposed to progress when one of the largest nations seem to not give a shit? 
    Then you are free to bring that up. Don't bring Eds letter into it because it's not relevant. It hurts the point you're trying to make.

    Ed and the band have no pull in China. Maybe you should direct your frustrations at the current administration who actually has influence on China. That would be a start.
    Post edited by dignin on
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,474
    edited March 2020
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    What he references in the letter (reposted below) is pretty specific. He's frustrated that there isn't more direction on the exact sorts of things needed to make a decision on whether it's safe to tour. So they're playing it cautiously. I read it as there could have been a scenario where, with stronger direction or better assurances that this was being handled, the tour could have gone on. Honestly, I think his words are really tempered - not only does he not mention Trump specifically, he references the government versus this administration. It sounds like you and I would agree on a lot about China's culpability in this mess, but those things don't really factor into a domestic tour decision.



    It certainly hasn’t helped that there’s been no clear messages from our government regarding people’s safety and our ability to go to work. Having no examples of our national health department’s ability to get ahead of this, we have no reason to believe that it will be under control in the coming weeks ahead. 
    I agree 100%. I didn’t mean it literally. All I’m saying is it’s a lot easier to blame everyone and everything, except China. How are we supposed to progress when one of the largest nations seem to not give a shit? 
    I brought this up in one of these threads, but no one seems to give a shit about their Uyghur slave camps or rampant IP theft either. This is just one piece of a large problem that an awful lot of people are ignoring. 
    Well, join the fight:

    Sweden’s lonely boxing match with Beijing

    Västerås is a microcosm of what is happening across Sweden, where officials and business leaders are waking up to the reality of dealing with the Chinese one-party state, after years spent looking for ways to tighten trade and diplomatic ties with Beijing.

    The deteriorating human rights situation in China — which has come under fire for its incarceration of its Muslim population in Xinjiang province — and Beijing’s increasingly muscular military and diplomatic stance abroad has caused some European governments, like Sweden, to rethink their willingness to engage.

    But as Stockholm found out when a Swedish NGO awarded a prize to a Chinese dissident, pushing back against Beijing means putting yourself in the line of fire of a nation with a growing arsenal of diplomatic weapons — very often, alone.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,239
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    What he references in the letter (reposted below) is pretty specific. He's frustrated that there isn't more direction on the exact sorts of things needed to make a decision on whether it's safe to tour. So they're playing it cautiously. I read it as there could have been a scenario where, with stronger direction or better assurances that this was being handled, the tour could have gone on. Honestly, I think his words are really tempered - not only does he not mention Trump specifically, he references the government versus this administration. It sounds like you and I would agree on a lot about China's culpability in this mess, but those things don't really factor into a domestic tour decision.



    It certainly hasn’t helped that there’s been no clear messages from our government regarding people’s safety and our ability to go to work. Having no examples of our national health department’s ability to get ahead of this, we have no reason to believe that it will be under control in the coming weeks ahead. 
    I agree 100%. I didn’t mean it literally. All I’m saying is it’s a lot easier to blame everyone and everything, except China. How are we supposed to progress when one of the largest nations seem to not give a shit? 
    Then you are free to bring that up. Don't bring Eds letter into it because it's not relevant. It hurts the point you're trying to make.

    Ed and the band have no pull in China. Maybe you should direct your frustrations at the current administration who actually have influence on China. That would be a start.
    Yes. I will. So sorry. Will never bring Ed’s name up again. What actually hurts my point is that you stopped reading after “Ed’s letter”. 
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    I know a lot of y'all hate on Joe Rogan, but he had a guy on that apparently is getting a lot of attention re: COVID

    http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/michael-osterholm
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,239
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    I know a lot of y'all hate on Joe Rogan, but he had a guy on that apparently is getting a lot of attention re: COVID

    http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/michael-osterholm
    A lot of people hate on everything here. Thanks, I’ll give it a listen. 
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,536
    nicknyr15 said:
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    What he references in the letter (reposted below) is pretty specific. He's frustrated that there isn't more direction on the exact sorts of things needed to make a decision on whether it's safe to tour. So they're playing it cautiously. I read it as there could have been a scenario where, with stronger direction or better assurances that this was being handled, the tour could have gone on. Honestly, I think his words are really tempered - not only does he not mention Trump specifically, he references the government versus this administration. It sounds like you and I would agree on a lot about China's culpability in this mess, but those things don't really factor into a domestic tour decision.



    It certainly hasn’t helped that there’s been no clear messages from our government regarding people’s safety and our ability to go to work. Having no examples of our national health department’s ability to get ahead of this, we have no reason to believe that it will be under control in the coming weeks ahead. 
    I agree 100%. I didn’t mean it literally. All I’m saying is it’s a lot easier to blame everyone and everything, except China. How are we supposed to progress when one of the largest nations seem to not give a shit? 
    I brought this up in one of these threads, but no one seems to give a shit about their Uyghur slave camps or rampant IP theft either. This is just one piece of a large problem that an awful lot of people are ignoring. Given that this letter was about postponing a domestic tour, I wouldn't expect Ed to use that platform to take a swipe at China. Pearl Jam doesn't really have any business there. At least nothing compared to Nike, Apple, the NBA, etc.
    I agree. I was speaking figuratively about the letter. It’s odd that no one gives a shit about what goes on there. Maybe if Trump loses, then some people can move their obsession to this subject. 
    BELIEVE ME when I say I share your frustrations. We're talking about the largest country with the largest military in the world. They are our #2 trade partner, #1 if you look just at imports. I've been pretty aggravated that this topic was barely a blip during the Democratic debates. I understand it's a difficult problem without an easy answer, but I'd like to hear the thoughts on how to handle it from someone seeking to be our President. 
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,831
    nicknyr15 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    Are they touring China? Must have missed that announcement.
    Yeah no reason for any of that in the letter.

    I do agree with the sentiment that the world should have discussions with China regarding this.  And businesses should take this into consideration for future as well.  There is a cost to that low cost labor and propping up that government. 
    Yes. No reason for that in the letter. I’m just bringing up a point that no one stands up to China and it’s getting bad. 
    I agree. The new green deal means nothing when we outsource almost all of our products to a country that doesn't care. Raising minimum wage isn't as effective when we rely on a country that uses child labor. Not having a green deal and keeping more business here would actually be far better for the environment. Tighter restrictions without involving China just means more business to China and in the end worse for the environment. So any politician that fights for a green deal and doesn't stand up to China is just playing politics, they aren't in it for the environment.
    But a tour announcement isn't really the place to start all that.
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    pjl44 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    no Mention of China in Ed’s letter? Why? They are global bullies. And they caused this. The world needs to stand up to them. 
    What he references in the letter (reposted below) is pretty specific. He's frustrated that there isn't more direction on the exact sorts of things needed to make a decision on whether it's safe to tour. So they're playing it cautiously. I read it as there could have been a scenario where, with stronger direction or better assurances that this was being handled, the tour could have gone on. Honestly, I think his words are really tempered - not only does he not mention Trump specifically, he references the government versus this administration. It sounds like you and I would agree on a lot about China's culpability in this mess, but those things don't really factor into a domestic tour decision.



    It certainly hasn’t helped that there’s been no clear messages from our government regarding people’s safety and our ability to go to work. Having no examples of our national health department’s ability to get ahead of this, we have no reason to believe that it will be under control in the coming weeks ahead. 
    I agree 100%. I didn’t mean it literally. All I’m saying is it’s a lot easier to blame everyone and everything, except China. How are we supposed to progress when one of the largest nations seem to not give a shit? 
    Then you are free to bring that up. Don't bring Eds letter into it because it's not relevant. It hurts the point you're trying to make.

    Ed and the band have no pull in China. Maybe you should direct your frustrations at the current administration who actually have influence on China. That would be a start.
    Yes. I will. So sorry. Will never bring Ed’s name up again. What actually hurts my point is that you stopped reading after “Ed’s letter”. 
    That's obviously what's happening. I read your not well thought out point.

    It's clear as day what your upset about, and my guess is you didn't give a shit about what was going on in China until you wanted to take a shot at the band because they criticized your dear leader.

    Maybe I'm wrong and you started a thread here a long time ago about all your concerns with China. If so I apologize.
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