The adjective form of clusterfuck would be clusterfuckY. For example, that was totally clusterfuckY. The "y" is the adjective suffix. Notice there is no longer the word "a" preceding the phrase, because I'm now using it as an adjective.
The English language is one big clusterfuck (predicate noun). It shouldn’t be so clusterfucky (adjective). Is that right?
anyone think that if an effective vaccine doesn't come to fruition that this just becomes part of our lives? the media stops reporting the daily infection rate and death toll, and we just accept it as another virus (like the flu) that kills us?
i don't know if we can effectively flatten the curve permanently like was done in 1919. too many people, too much global travel. if there's no vaccine, that's it.
i guess now we all know what it's like to be a 90 year old during flu season.
I have no plans to ever accept this as just another virus. I know that early on, like in March, when the reports of heart and other organ damage were beginning to be reported, I was skeptical about how widespread that would come to be. I even took shit about it here, and I'm okay with saying I was wrong. The writing now is pretty clearly written on the wall that if it doesn't kill you, it will make you weaker. I'm not about to go into my old age with some CoVid-wrecked insides. The rest of the world can do what it wants. My behaviors are changed for the long haul.
I'm kind of wondering the nature of the data. Here where I live, the first burst of Coronavirus seemed to focus on the older population. I would expect them to have things like heart disease given their age. These reports about the long term implications of Covid19. Do we know the average age demographic of the people they studied. Did they have before and after materials available to rule out they didn't have issues before Covid19?
The only article I read was a little light on the details, so I instantly became skeptical.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
anyone think that if an effective vaccine doesn't come to fruition that this just becomes part of our lives? the media stops reporting the daily infection rate and death toll, and we just accept it as another virus (like the flu) that kills us?
i don't know if we can effectively flatten the curve permanently like was done in 1919. too many people, too much global travel. if there's no vaccine, that's it.
i guess now we all know what it's like to be a 90 year old during flu season.
I have no plans to ever accept this as just another virus. I know that early on, like in March, when the reports of heart and other organ damage were beginning to be reported, I was skeptical about how widespread that would come to be. I even took shit about it here, and I'm okay with saying I was wrong. The writing now is pretty clearly written on the wall that if it doesn't kill you, it will make you weaker. I'm not about to go into my old age with some CoVid-wrecked insides. The rest of the world can do what it wants. My behaviors are changed for the long haul.
I'm kind of wondering the nature of the data. Here where I live, the first burst of Coronavirus seemed to focus on the older population. I would expect them to have things like heart disease given their age. These reports about the long term implications of Covid19. Do we know the average age demographic of the people they studied. Did they have before and after materials available to rule out they didn't have issues before Covid19?
The only article I read was a little light on the details, so I instantly became skeptical.
Don’t just look at covid-19 fatality rates. Look at people who survive — but don’t entirely recover.
During the first few months of the coronaviruspandemic, the United States became a nation of novice hermits and amateur epidemiologists. The former battened down the hatches; the latter frantically tried to assess just how much danger we were hiding from. Between sourdough seminars and Zoom meetings, Twitter PhD theses were composed and defended seeking to pin down the “infection fatality rate”: the percentage of infected people, including the undiagnosed, who died of covid-19.
But with more data, something else has become clear: We’re focusing too much on fatality rates and not enough on the people who don’t die but don’t entirely recover, either.
Anecdotal reports of these people abound. At least seven elite college athletes have developed myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle that can have severe consequences, including sudden death. An Austrian doctor who treats scuba divers reported that six patients, who had only mild covid-19 infections, seem to have significant and permanent lung damage. Social media communities sprang up of people who are still suffering, months after they were infected, with everything from chronic fatigue and “brain fog” to chest pain and recurrent fevers.
Now, data is coming in behind the anecdotes, and while it’s preliminary, it’s also “concerning,” says Clyde Yancy, chief of cardiology at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine. A recent study from Germany followed up with 100 recovered patients, two-thirds of whom were never sick enough to be hospitalized. Seventy-eight showed signs of cardiac involvement, and MRIs indicated that 60 of them had ongoing cardiac inflammation, even though it had been at least two months since their diagnosis.
If these results turned out to be representative, they would utterly change the way we think about covid-19: not as a disease that kills a tiny percentage of patients, mostly the elderly or the obese, the hypertensive or diabetic, but one that attacks the heart in most of the people who get it, even if they don’t feel very sick. And maybe their lungs, kidneys or brains, too.
It’s too early to say what the long-term prognosis of those attacks would be; with other viruses that infect the heart, most acute, symptomatic myocarditis cases eventually resolve without long-term clinical complications. Though Leslie Cooper, a cardiologist at the Mayo Clinic, estimates that 20 to 30 percent of patients who experience acute viral myocarditis end up with some sort of long-term heart disease including recurrent chest pain or shortness of breath, which can be progressive and debilitating. When I asked whether the risk of long-term disability from covid-19 could potentially end up being greater than the risk of death, Cooper said: “Yes, absolutely.”
Those patients would, on average, be much younger than the ones who are dying; the median age in the German study was 49. These are patients with many years of life to lose, either to disability or early death. And there are disturbing findings from much younger patients; a study of 186 children who had MIS-C, the (thankfully rare) inflammatory syndrome that can occur with pediatric covid-19, showed 15 had developed aneurysms of the coronary artery.
But you can’t generalize from such small studies, especially since covid-19 is rapidly becoming the most-studied disease in human history; if we regularly put patients with other viral infections through cardiac MRIs, what might their hearts look like a few months in?
We desperately need larger, more comprehensive studies, and, thankfully, they’re in the works — one of the largest and the best will follow 10,000 British patients. But these take time to set up, and as genetic epidemiologist Louise Wain, a researcher on the British study, told me ruefully, “No one warned us a year ago that we were going to have a pandemic.” She hopes to have the 1,000th patient enrolled by September, which is amazingly fast, but still not quick enough for policymakers and individuals who have to decide whether to leave our hermitages.
“All of us, me included, have tired,” says Yancy. And, in recent months, our laser focus on fatality rates has offered at least the young and healthy what seems like a beacon of hope. Without hard data, it has been easy to dismiss reports of longer-term complications as anecdote, hysteria or media hype. But at this stage, the absence of data isn’t proof that those effects aren’t real.
Of course, even if the risks are higher than we thought, we still must make trade-offs — crops must be picked and kids educated, pandemic or no. But whatever your personal cost-benefit analysis was, it should become more conservative with those potential long-term complications factored in. At the very least, says Yancy, “Wear the mask. When you think about all these ramifications, wear the mask.”
This is a response I got to a comment I posted in a WaPo article on college reopenings. Terrifying:
"What we're seeing is that in the age of globalization a national health care system is as necessary to the defense and prosperity of the country as a strong nuclear deterrent or aircraft carriers.
What our foes have learned is that we will work actively not to take proper defensive measures in the case of a biological attack. If they unleash smallpox now in a city, a significant part of the city's population will resist necessary public health measures."
This is a response I got to a comment I posted in a WaPo article on college reopenings. Terrifying:
"What we're seeing is that in the age of globalization a national health care system is as necessary to the defense and prosperity of the country as a strong nuclear deterrent or aircraft carriers.
What our foes have learned is that we will work actively not to take proper defensive measures in the case of a biological attack. If they unleash smallpox now in a city, a significant part of the city's population will resist necessary public health measures."
-- by a user named GoldingX
Interesting...but I don't think it's true.
When the enemy is visible...has a name and a face...Americans still rally. 9/11 showed it. I believe Americans would rally again in that scenario. Perhaps not, but that's what I think.
This is a response I got to a comment I posted in a WaPo article on college reopenings. Terrifying:
"What we're seeing is that in the age of globalization a national health care system is as necessary to the defense and prosperity of the country as a strong nuclear deterrent or aircraft carriers.
What our foes have learned is that we will work actively not to take proper defensive measures in the case of a biological attack. If they unleash smallpox now in a city, a significant part of the city's population will resist necessary public health measures."
-- by a user named GoldingX
Interesting...but I don't think it's true.
When the enemy is visible...has a name and a face...Americans still rally. 9/11 showed it. I believe Americans would rally again in that scenario. Perhaps not, but that's what I think.
There will be an elemnt of our country who won't believe the biological attack was unleashed by an enemy. They will think it was a Deep State hoax. Like the 9/11 Truthers.
This is a response I got to a comment I posted in a WaPo article on college reopenings. Terrifying:
"What we're seeing is that in the age of globalization a national health care system is as necessary to the defense and prosperity of the country as a strong nuclear deterrent or aircraft carriers.
What our foes have learned is that we will work actively not to take proper defensive measures in the case of a biological attack. If they unleash smallpox now in a city, a significant part of the city's population will resist necessary public health measures."
-- by a user named GoldingX
Interesting...but I don't think it's true.
When the enemy is visible...has a name and a face...Americans still rally. 9/11 showed it. I believe Americans would rally again in that scenario. Perhaps not, but that's what I think.
There will be an elemnt of our country who won't believe the biological attack was unleashed by an enemy. They will think it was a Deep State hoax. Like the 9/11 Truthers.
Probably. I'm just saying it'll be a very low number. If I were an enemy of the USA I wouldn't bank on it.
I dunno, I’ve seen a lot peoples’ critical thinking abilitiy go down the tubes in the last 6 months. Seems likely enemies are already willing to bank on it.
Right? We already have large part of our population who think corona was created and unleashed on purpose by China. That knowledge is not leading them to mask up.
We are not the same country that we were in 2001. The Twitter-verse did not exist then. Imagine the 9/11 truthers in 2001 if there were Twitter
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I was under the impression that most kids didn't get very sick from the virus, but I assumed they still got it. I guess other people assumed because kids weren't getting very sick from it, that it wasn't contagious? lol.
I was under the impression that most kids didn't get very sick from the virus, but I assumed they still got it. I guess other people assumed because kids weren't getting very sick from it, that it wasn't contagious? lol.
I assumed, since the CDC and everyone else has changed their minds on just about everything several times, that we really don't know anything. Kids weren't going to work or school or grocery shopping, so no surprise they weren't getting sick from it either. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out in a few weeks that kids can get just as sick once schools are back.
I was under the impression that most kids didn't get very sick from the virus, but I assumed they still got it. I guess other people assumed because kids weren't getting very sick from it, that it wasn't contagious? lol.
I knew they got it. I was surprised so many get tested if they apparently don't get sick from it. My guess is they get tested because an older person around them got sick and they are doing contact tracing.
I was under the impression that most kids didn't get very sick from the virus, but I assumed they still got it. I guess other people assumed because kids weren't getting very sick from it, that it wasn't contagious? lol.
I assumed, since the CDC and everyone else has changed their minds on just about everything several times, that we really don't know anything. Kids weren't going to work or school or grocery shopping, so no surprise they weren't getting sick from it either. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out in a few weeks that kids can get just as sick once schools are back.
But it's even amazing how many people were (willfully?) misinterpreting that. I thought it was pretty clear that kids can get it and carry it; just that they tend to not show very drastic symptoms. But somehow we're learning all over that kids can bring it home.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Damn, children are considered people too? Learned something new today!
So much winning! And we have more cases than anyone because we do more testing than the world comBIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINED. Plus, page 5 of that mental acuity test is really, really hard.
Comments
Don’t just look at covid-19 fatality rates. Look at people who survive — but don’t entirely recover.
During the first few months of the coronavirus pandemic, the United States became a nation of novice hermits and amateur epidemiologists. The former battened down the hatches; the latter frantically tried to assess just how much danger we were hiding from. Between sourdough seminars and Zoom meetings, Twitter PhD theses were composed and defended seeking to pin down the “infection fatality rate”: the percentage of infected people, including the undiagnosed, who died of covid-19.
In those early innings, good-faith estimates ranged as high as 3 percent and as low as 0.1 percent. As we got more information, however, the plausible estimates narrowed, and is probably in the range of 0.5 to 1.0 percent.
But with more data, something else has become clear: We’re focusing too much on fatality rates and not enough on the people who don’t die but don’t entirely recover, either.
Anecdotal reports of these people abound. At least seven elite college athletes have developed myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle that can have severe consequences, including sudden death. An Austrian doctor who treats scuba divers reported that six patients, who had only mild covid-19 infections, seem to have significant and permanent lung damage. Social media communities sprang up of people who are still suffering, months after they were infected, with everything from chronic fatigue and “brain fog” to chest pain and recurrent fevers.
Full coverage of the coronavirus pandemic
Now, data is coming in behind the anecdotes, and while it’s preliminary, it’s also “concerning,” says Clyde Yancy, chief of cardiology at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine. A recent study from Germany followed up with 100 recovered patients, two-thirds of whom were never sick enough to be hospitalized. Seventy-eight showed signs of cardiac involvement, and MRIs indicated that 60 of them had ongoing cardiac inflammation, even though it had been at least two months since their diagnosis.
If these results turned out to be representative, they would utterly change the way we think about covid-19: not as a disease that kills a tiny percentage of patients, mostly the elderly or the obese, the hypertensive or diabetic, but one that attacks the heart in most of the people who get it, even if they don’t feel very sick. And maybe their lungs, kidneys or brains, too.
It’s too early to say what the long-term prognosis of those attacks would be; with other viruses that infect the heart, most acute, symptomatic myocarditis cases eventually resolve without long-term clinical complications. Though Leslie Cooper, a cardiologist at the Mayo Clinic, estimates that 20 to 30 percent of patients who experience acute viral myocarditis end up with some sort of long-term heart disease including recurrent chest pain or shortness of breath, which can be progressive and debilitating. When I asked whether the risk of long-term disability from covid-19 could potentially end up being greater than the risk of death, Cooper said: “Yes, absolutely.”
Those patients would, on average, be much younger than the ones who are dying; the median age in the German study was 49. These are patients with many years of life to lose, either to disability or early death. And there are disturbing findings from much younger patients; a study of 186 children who had MIS-C, the (thankfully rare) inflammatory syndrome that can occur with pediatric covid-19, showed 15 had developed aneurysms of the coronary artery.
But you can’t generalize from such small studies, especially since covid-19 is rapidly becoming the most-studied disease in human history; if we regularly put patients with other viral infections through cardiac MRIs, what might their hearts look like a few months in?
We desperately need larger, more comprehensive studies, and, thankfully, they’re in the works — one of the largest and the best will follow 10,000 British patients. But these take time to set up, and as genetic epidemiologist Louise Wain, a researcher on the British study, told me ruefully, “No one warned us a year ago that we were going to have a pandemic.” She hopes to have the 1,000th patient enrolled by September, which is amazingly fast, but still not quick enough for policymakers and individuals who have to decide whether to leave our hermitages.
“All of us, me included, have tired,” says Yancy. And, in recent months, our laser focus on fatality rates has offered at least the young and healthy what seems like a beacon of hope. Without hard data, it has been easy to dismiss reports of longer-term complications as anecdote, hysteria or media hype. But at this stage, the absence of data isn’t proof that those effects aren’t real.
Of course, even if the risks are higher than we thought, we still must make trade-offs — crops must be picked and kids educated, pandemic or no. But whatever your personal cost-benefit analysis was, it should become more conservative with those potential long-term complications factored in. At the very least, says Yancy, “Wear the mask. When you think about all these ramifications, wear the mask.”
"What we're seeing is that in the age of globalization a national health care system is as necessary to the defense and prosperity of the country as a strong nuclear deterrent or aircraft carriers.
What our foes have learned is that we will work actively not to take proper defensive measures in the case of a biological attack. If they unleash smallpox now in a city, a significant part of the city's population will resist necessary public health measures."
-- by a user named GoldingX
When the enemy is visible...has a name and a face...Americans still rally. 9/11 showed it. I believe Americans would rally again in that scenario. Perhaps not, but that's what I think.
We are not the same country that we were in 2001. The Twitter-verse did not exist then. Imagine the 9/11 truthers in 2001 if there were Twitter
He might as well make a few extra bucks of the crisis after all he is responsible for all the misery that has engulfed this nation!
By Ariana Eunjung Cha
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/08/20/children-coronavirus-spread-transmission/
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I wouldn't be surprised if we find out in a few weeks that kids can get just as sick once schools are back.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/22/world/covid-19-coronavirus.html?referringSource=articleShare
I'm (Not A) Believer (In Social Distancing)
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