The coronavirus

Spiritual_Chaos

mcgruff10 said:

Sweden has nearly 10 times the number of COVID-19-related deaths than its Nordic neighbors. Here's where it went wrong.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sweden-nearly-10-times-number-210442597.html

Sweden's controversial coronavirus strategy has led to nearly 10 times the number of deaths of other Nordic countries — and it serves as a counterargument to US citizens calling for their country to reopen.

Sweden has yet to order any lockdowns amid the novel coronavirus pandemic, according to AFP. The country has left schools, restaurants, and gyms open, and while the government banned gatherings over 50 people and urged residents to self-isolate, life appears to be largely unchanged.

Sweden's lack of strict lockdowns contrasts sharply with the rest of Europe, and it has yet to see a downturn in COVID-19 cases. The country — which has a population of about 10.2 million — has seen 15,322 cases and 1,765 deaths from the virus so far, making the death rate per capita at 17.3 deaths per 100,000 people.

Sweden's Nordic neighbors Norway and Finland approached the virus differently, and it could be why they're facing just a fraction of COVID-19-related deaths.

Norway went into lockdown in mid-March, closing schools, restaurants, cultural events, gyms, and tourist attractions. It also banned outside travelers. Finland, which has been stockpiling medical supplies since the Cold War, restricted border traffic, banned gatherings of 10 or more people, and closed schools as part of its coronavirus guidelines.

Norway, which has nearly 5.4 million people, has seen 7,191 cases and 182 deaths, with a death rate per capita at 3.37 deaths per 100,000 people. Finland, with a population of 5.5 million, has seen 4,014 COVID-19 cases and 141 deaths, with a death rate per capita at 2.56 deaths per 100,000 people.

For a further comparison, the United States, which has a population of 328.2 million, has seen 800,932 confirmed COVID-19 cases, and 43,006 deaths, with a death rate per capita at 13.1 deaths per 100,000 people.

Anders Tegnell, the state epidemiologist who created Sweden's relaxed coronavirus response plan, told local media that the country's fatality rates show the spread of the virus is starting to "plateau," according to Bloomberg.

Charts released by Pantheon Macroeconomics, however, contradict Tegnell. Sweden's COVID-19 cases appear to still be rising, and Norway's appear to already be on a downslide.

Bo Lundback, a professor of epidemiology at the University of Gothenburg, told Agence Frances-Press that a change needed to happen.

"The authorities and the government stupidly did not believe that the epidemic would reach Sweden at all," he said.

Some 2,300 academics signed an open letter last month calling for Sweden to reconsider its approach to the virus, according to Fox News.

Cecilia Soderberg-Naucler, a professor at the Karolinska Institute who signed the letter, told Fox News: "We must establish control over the situation — we cannot head into a situation where we get complete chaos. No one has tried this route, so why should we test it first in Sweden, without informed consent?"

Swedes so far have been refraining from travel, according to Bloomberg, and its foreign minister, Ann Linde, said in an interview with Radio Sweden that its rules "affect the whole society," according to Bloomberg.

You ever played Mario Kart bro?

Spiritual_Chaos

great weather so went out for lunch with a friend

pjl44

bbiggs said:

What a shit show this is becoming in the U.S.  Some states are about to open back up, others are extending stay at home orders through the end of May. Give me a break.  No wonder we’re MILES ahead of every country in terms of cases and deaths.  The division here is as great as I’ve ever seen it.  Fucking embarrassing to be honest. 

You can certainly question an individual state's decision, but this is how it should be. Different states/regions will find themselves in different situations for different reasons. There shouldn't be a blanket approach for the entire country. A big part of the reason we should be looking at regional trends instead of "US numbers."

Like I said yesterday, my state (MA) is in a relatively worse position than others and we have to live with the fact that we may be behind other states in loosening up. It sucks but it is what it is. 

23scidoo

^^Ιncorrigible..

bbiggs

Here's what I don't understand about the U.S.'s approach.  Just about every state bought in to the stay at home orders.  This lasted 4-5 weeks or so and many states are now starting to get antsy and want to open back up.  In the meantime, the virus cases and deaths continue to rise, so we haven't seen the peak.  What was the point in locking down to begin with if you weren't going to at least ride it out until after the peak?  Seems pretty pointless to me.  It's the wild west around here with no sense of direction.  Buckle up.

mfc2006

bbiggs said:

Here's what I don't understand about the U.S.'s approach.  Just about every state bought in to the stay at home orders.  This lasted 4-5 weeks or so and many states are now starting to get antsy and want to open back up.  In the meantime, the virus cases and deaths continue to rise, so we haven't seen the peak.  What was the point in locking down to begin with if you weren't going to at least ride it out until after the peak?  Seems pretty pointless to me.  It's the wild west around here with no sense of direction.  Buckle up.

I completely agree. 

bbiggs

pjl44 said:

bbiggs said:

What a shit show this is becoming in the U.S.  Some states are about to open back up, others are extending stay at home orders through the end of May. Give me a break.  No wonder we’re MILES ahead of every country in terms of cases and deaths.  The division here is as great as I’ve ever seen it.  Fucking embarrassing to be honest. 

You can certainly question an individual state's decision, but this is how it should be. Different states/regions will find themselves in different situations for different reasons. There shouldn't be a blanket approach for the entire country. A big part of the reason we should be looking at regional trends instead of "US numbers."

Like I said yesterday, my state (MA) is in a relatively worse position than others and we have to live with the fact that we may be behind other states in loosening up. It sucks but it is what it is. 

If states were opening up for the right reasons, I would agree with this.  That doesn't seem to be the case.  They are not re-opening based on significant declines in cases that makes it "safe" to start that process.  Many are doing so based on the desire to be liberated and free.  I agree that we don't need a blanket approach for a country as large as the U.S., but we should have guidelines that each state follows in terms of when to re-open.  Right now, it is all over the map with each state creating its own set of guidelines.  That doesn't work.  Zero effective leadership from the top.  

mace1229

SHZA said:

mace1229 said:

bbiggs said:

What a shit show this is becoming in the U.S.  Some states are about to open back up, others are extending stay at home orders through the end of May. Give me a break.  No wonder we’re MILES ahead of every country in terms of cases and deaths.  The division here is as great as I’ve ever seen it.  Fucking embarrassing to be honest. 

I haven’t seen stats for about a week, but last I saw I don’t think we were even top 10 per capita. I don’t think we’re number 1 or even close unless you ignore population. Which if you do wouldn’t be an accurate assessment.

Edit: just looked it up, were #6
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.statista.com/chart/amp/21176/covid-19-infection-density-in-countries-most-total-cases/

But that's confirmed cases. The true number of US cases is grossly understated because the testing capacity is so abysmal. With widespread testing, we'd be #1 per capita by far. 

Why do you think it’s so much worse here than everywhere else? We already have a comparable or even better death rate than most countries except Germany. So we’d have to believe our death rate is far better than what it already is if you think that. 

We’ve also tested 5-10 times as much as most European countries,, which isn’t far off from our population difference.
So whatever shortage of testing we may have we aren’t alone.
I check this site every couple of days, has live updates of just about any stat.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

dignin

bbiggs said:

pjl44 said:

bbiggs said:

What a shit show this is becoming in the U.S.  Some states are about to open back up, others are extending stay at home orders through the end of May. Give me a break.  No wonder we’re MILES ahead of every country in terms of cases and deaths.  The division here is as great as I’ve ever seen it.  Fucking embarrassing to be honest. 

You can certainly question an individual state's decision, but this is how it should be. Different states/regions will find themselves in different situations for different reasons. There shouldn't be a blanket approach for the entire country. A big part of the reason we should be looking at regional trends instead of "US numbers."

Like I said yesterday, my state (MA) is in a relatively worse position than others and we have to live with the fact that we may be behind other states in loosening up. It sucks but it is what it is. 

If states were opening up for the right reasons, I would agree with this.  That doesn't seem to be the case.  They are not re-opening based on significant declines in cases that makes it "safe" to start that process.  Many are doing so based on the desire to be liberated and free.  I agree that we don't need a blanket approach for a country as large as the U.S., but we should have guidelines that each state follows in terms of when to re-open.  Right now, it is all over the map with each state creating its own set of guidelines.  That doesn't work.  Zero effective leadership from the top.  

Maybe, I know this is crazy, but there could be some kind of leadership at the federal level to coordinate this. I know, crazy.

mace1229

bbiggs said:

mace1229 said:

bbiggs said:

What a shit show this is becoming in the U.S.  Some states are about to open back up, others are extending stay at home orders through the end of May. Give me a break.  No wonder we’re MILES ahead of every country in terms of cases and deaths.  The division here is as great as I’ve ever seen it.  Fucking embarrassing to be honest. 

I haven’t seen stats for about a week, but last I saw I don’t think we were even top 10 per capita. I don’t think we’re number 1 or even close unless you ignore population. Which if you do wouldn’t be an accurate assessment.

Edit: just looked it up, were #6
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.statista.com/chart/amp/21176/covid-19-infection-density-in-countries-most-total-cases/

Our numbers have climbed rapidly in a short period of time.  You're not factoring in timing of when other countries were first hit and we were at zero, or close to it.  Let's re-visit this stat in 2, 3 and 4 weeks from now.

I thought it was commonly thought we were hot much earlier than our data shows? Especially NY. We just didn’t test for it, but it was already spreading.
Not saying we did a great job. Just saying we’re not alone with the testing issues and close to on par with much of Europe.

mfc2006

dignin said:

bbiggs said:

pjl44 said:

bbiggs said:

What a shit show this is becoming in the U.S.  Some states are about to open back up, others are extending stay at home orders through the end of May. Give me a break.  No wonder we’re MILES ahead of every country in terms of cases and deaths.  The division here is as great as I’ve ever seen it.  Fucking embarrassing to be honest. 

You can certainly question an individual state's decision, but this is how it should be. Different states/regions will find themselves in different situations for different reasons. There shouldn't be a blanket approach for the entire country. A big part of the reason we should be looking at regional trends instead of "US numbers."

Like I said yesterday, my state (MA) is in a relatively worse position than others and we have to live with the fact that we may be behind other states in loosening up. It sucks but it is what it is. 

If states were opening up for the right reasons, I would agree with this.  That doesn't seem to be the case.  They are not re-opening based on significant declines in cases that makes it "safe" to start that process.  Many are doing so based on the desire to be liberated and free.  I agree that we don't need a blanket approach for a country as large as the U.S., but we should have guidelines that each state follows in terms of when to re-open.  Right now, it is all over the map with each state creating its own set of guidelines.  That doesn't work.  Zero effective leadership from the top.  

Maybe, I know this is crazy, but there could be some kind of leadership at the federal level to coordinate this. I know, crazy.

It certainly would be helpful. 

pjl44

bbiggs said:

pjl44 said:

bbiggs said:

What a shit show this is becoming in the U.S.  Some states are about to open back up, others are extending stay at home orders through the end of May. Give me a break.  No wonder we’re MILES ahead of every country in terms of cases and deaths.  The division here is as great as I’ve ever seen it.  Fucking embarrassing to be honest. 

You can certainly question an individual state's decision, but this is how it should be. Different states/regions will find themselves in different situations for different reasons. There shouldn't be a blanket approach for the entire country. A big part of the reason we should be looking at regional trends instead of "US numbers."

Like I said yesterday, my state (MA) is in a relatively worse position than others and we have to live with the fact that we may be behind other states in loosening up. It sucks but it is what it is. 

If states were opening up for the right reasons, I would agree with this.  That doesn't seem to be the case.  They are not re-opening based on significant declines in cases that makes it "safe" to start that process.  Many are doing so based on the desire to be liberated and free.  I agree that we don't need a blanket approach for a country as large as the U.S., but we should have guidelines that each state follows in terms of when to re-open.  Right now, it is all over the map with each state creating its own set of guidelines.  That doesn't work.  Zero effective leadership from the top.  

I definitely agree with your last sentence, which is what leads states to make their individual assessments. It's important to note that these states aren't "re-opening." Its not an on/off switch. It's select businesses and under certain conditions. 

I'm sure the capacity of their health systems plays a big part, too. I don't live in Georgia or Colorado, so I'm fine with them relying on their local knowledge. Maybe you'll be right, maybe you'll be wrong. My position is I honestly don't know.

bbiggs

dignin said:

bbiggs said:

pjl44 said:

bbiggs said:

What a shit show this is becoming in the U.S.  Some states are about to open back up, others are extending stay at home orders through the end of May. Give me a break.  No wonder we’re MILES ahead of every country in terms of cases and deaths.  The division here is as great as I’ve ever seen it.  Fucking embarrassing to be honest. 

You can certainly question an individual state's decision, but this is how it should be. Different states/regions will find themselves in different situations for different reasons. There shouldn't be a blanket approach for the entire country. A big part of the reason we should be looking at regional trends instead of "US numbers."

Like I said yesterday, my state (MA) is in a relatively worse position than others and we have to live with the fact that we may be behind other states in loosening up. It sucks but it is what it is. 

If states were opening up for the right reasons, I would agree with this.  That doesn't seem to be the case.  They are not re-opening based on significant declines in cases that makes it "safe" to start that process.  Many are doing so based on the desire to be liberated and free.  I agree that we don't need a blanket approach for a country as large as the U.S., but we should have guidelines that each state follows in terms of when to re-open.  Right now, it is all over the map with each state creating its own set of guidelines.  That doesn't work.  Zero effective leadership from the top.  

Maybe, I know this is crazy, but there could be some kind of leadership at the federal level to coordinate this. I know, crazy.

Agreed.  That's why my post said:  "Right now, it is all over the map with each state creating its own set of guidelines.  That doesn't work.  Zero effective leadership from the top."

nicknyr15

Spiritual_Chaos said:

great weather so went out for lunch with a friend

You’re just the coolest. How tone deaf is this post?

oftenreading

"New Zealand's COVID-19 'eradication' strategy appears to be paying off"

The country went into fairly extreme lockdown in early March and is just starting to contemplate reducing restrictions slightly. The whole country has only had 1,445 cases, with only 13 deaths.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/covid-new-zealand-eradicate-chris-brown-cbc-1.5540021

stuckinline

Saw this posted on Facebook. It may give some insight to the protests. SMH

If you want to stay home, stay home.
If you want to wear a mask, wear a mask.
If you want to avoid large crowds, avoid large crowds.

I am not required to descend into poverty for you.
I am not required to abstain from human contact for you.
I am not required to shop alone, without my kids, for you.

I refuse to participate in "quarantine life" until there's an unsafe, untested v@ccine released in eighteen months. I refuse to receive said v@ccine to make others feel more safe. I won't set myself--or my children--on fire to keep you warm. If you're convinced the vaccine is safe and effective, you can get it yourself.

Some of you are allowing fear and policies devoid of scientifically accurate data to destroy America and ruin your life. I can't control your self-destructive behaviors, but we all have a say in America.

We need to tell legislators that we demand options. We have a constitutional right to take risks. Life is full of bacteria and viruses--many of which spread before symptoms manifest and after they subside. We have a right to receive OR refuse v@ccines.

The data was inaccurate at best; purposely overblown to justify government overreach at worst. Stop allowing the government to destroy:
The Food Supply
Small Businesses
Medical Autonomy
Access to Healthcare
Religious Gatherings
Privacy Rights
Fellowship

When the "new normal" is filled with starvation, depression, suicide, imprisonment, governmental spying, and pure DESPERATION, the virus is going to look preferable to the world you helped facilitate."

bbiggs

We can't even get on the same page within my state.  The governor of IL and mayor of Chicago tipped their hands yesterday that it is very likely the stay at home orders will get extended through the end of May (no official announcement yet). On the same day, the mayor of Naperville (large suburb outside of Chicago) said he wants to re-open his city on May 1. 

JimmyV

We are officially closed down through 5/4, but the schools - which usually get out the third or fourth week of June - have been closed through the end of the school year.

oftenreading

stuckinline said:

Saw this posted on Facebook. It may give some insight to the protests. SMH

If you want to stay home, stay home.
If you want to wear a mask, wear a mask.
If you want to avoid large crowds, avoid large crowds.

I am not required to descend into poverty for you.
I am not required to abstain from human contact for you.
I am not required to shop alone, without my kids, for you.

I refuse to participate in "quarantine life" until there's an unsafe, untested v@ccine released in eighteen months. I refuse to receive said v@ccine to make others feel more safe. I won't set myself--or my children--on fire to keep you warm. If you're convinced the vaccine is safe and effective, you can get it yourself.

Some of you are allowing fear and policies devoid of scientifically accurate data to destroy America and ruin your life. I can't control your self-destructive behaviors, but we all have a say in America.

We need to tell legislators that we demand options. We have a constitutional right to take risks. Life is full of bacteria and viruses--many of which spread before symptoms manifest and after they subside. We have a right to receive OR refuse v@ccines.

The data was inaccurate at best; purposely overblown to justify government overreach at worst. Stop allowing the government to destroy:
The Food Supply
Small Businesses
Medical Autonomy
Access to Healthcare
Religious Gatherings
Privacy Rights
Fellowship

When the "new normal" is filled with starvation, depression, suicide, imprisonment, governmental spying, and pure DESPERATION, the virus is going to look preferable to the world you helped facilitate."

Basically, “my wishes are my important than the common good”.

This so what you get when a country puts all its focus on individual rights. State sanctioned selfishness. 

hedonist

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

Sweden has nearly 10 times the number of COVID-19-related deaths than its Nordic neighbors. Here's where it went wrong.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sweden-nearly-10-times-number-210442597.html

Sweden's controversial coronavirus strategy has led to nearly 10 times the number of deaths of other Nordic countries — and it serves as a counterargument to US citizens calling for their country to reopen.

Sweden has yet to order any lockdowns amid the novel coronavirus pandemic, according to AFP. The country has left schools, restaurants, and gyms open, and while the government banned gatherings over 50 people and urged residents to self-isolate, life appears to be largely unchanged.

Sweden's lack of strict lockdowns contrasts sharply with the rest of Europe, and it has yet to see a downturn in COVID-19 cases. The country — which has a population of about 10.2 million — has seen 15,322 cases and 1,765 deaths from the virus so far, making the death rate per capita at 17.3 deaths per 100,000 people.

Sweden's Nordic neighbors Norway and Finland approached the virus differently, and it could be why they're facing just a fraction of COVID-19-related deaths.

Norway went into lockdown in mid-March, closing schools, restaurants, cultural events, gyms, and tourist attractions. It also banned outside travelers. Finland, which has been stockpiling medical supplies since the Cold War, restricted border traffic, banned gatherings of 10 or more people, and closed schools as part of its coronavirus guidelines.

Norway, which has nearly 5.4 million people, has seen 7,191 cases and 182 deaths, with a death rate per capita at 3.37 deaths per 100,000 people. Finland, with a population of 5.5 million, has seen 4,014 COVID-19 cases and 141 deaths, with a death rate per capita at 2.56 deaths per 100,000 people.

For a further comparison, the United States, which has a population of 328.2 million, has seen 800,932 confirmed COVID-19 cases, and 43,006 deaths, with a death rate per capita at 13.1 deaths per 100,000 people.

Anders Tegnell, the state epidemiologist who created Sweden's relaxed coronavirus response plan, told local media that the country's fatality rates show the spread of the virus is starting to "plateau," according to Bloomberg.

Charts released by Pantheon Macroeconomics, however, contradict Tegnell. Sweden's COVID-19 cases appear to still be rising, and Norway's appear to already be on a downslide.

Bo Lundback, a professor of epidemiology at the University of Gothenburg, told Agence Frances-Press that a change needed to happen.

"The authorities and the government stupidly did not believe that the epidemic would reach Sweden at all," he said.

Some 2,300 academics signed an open letter last month calling for Sweden to reconsider its approach to the virus, according to Fox News.

Cecilia Soderberg-Naucler, a professor at the Karolinska Institute who signed the letter, told Fox News: "We must establish control over the situation — we cannot head into a situation where we get complete chaos. No one has tried this route, so why should we test it first in Sweden, without informed consent?"

Swedes so far have been refraining from travel, according to Bloomberg, and its foreign minister, Ann Linde, said in an interview with Radio Sweden that its rules "affect the whole society," according to Bloomberg.

You ever played Mario Kart bro?

Can you break this down into actual language for those of us not into Mario Kart, bro?