The coronavirus

mace1229

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

nicknyr15 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

The FDA that is approving the home test is the same FDA that said it is unlikely to catch the virus from food delivery?
The same FDA that put bread, cereal, pasta on the food pyramid?  That pushed Milk on the country as a crucial part of our diets?

Motivated by money.  I'm sure they do many fine things and I would rather have some testing vs no testing by a governing body, but I am always suspicious of the FDA 

I honestly was shocked when they said it wasn’t necessary to wipe down groceries. People touch stuff and put them back every second. How could you recommend to not wipe down anything that comes in from a store? Terrible advice 

Doubt you really have enough authority on the subject to decide if the advice is terrible or not.

True, besides, everyone knows that plastic and children are magical and incapable of transmitting the virus. 
It's a well-known supernatural phenomenon called the Giesecke-Effect.

Show me those schools outbreaks m8.

Countries are opening up their schools now. Sweden leads the way once again. This is the 1970s law against corporal punisment of children all over again. Sweden the avant garde. Leading the pack. Ahead of the curve. ABBA.

Sweden isn't leading, but it is #10 on the most deaths/1M population due to coronavirus.  I think it was an interesting idea to see how it would play out, unfortunately people were at risk of dying.  Now - it isn't over.  Maybe other countries with a second wave or whatever will fly past Sweden in this terrible statistic.  

Regardless, I just hope this ends soon.

You ever played Mario Kart bro?

Just because Koopa is getting up to speed to lead the pack in the first curve, doesn't mean he is a better character to choose than Bowser.

We won't know the effects on countries for years to come. 

That game is rigged anyway. They always give the last place player red turtle shells.

what dreams

Meltdown99 said:

How long are some of you willing to be locked down for? As long as it takes? 

I'm a teacher. I get laid off two months every year anyway, so I'm used it. This year it's four. No biggie.

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The problem I have is with misinformation and misrepresented facts used to back an argument. The praying in their car while listening to a sermon on the radio claim appears to be the work of a boneheaded mayor’s misguided enforcement of a state policy guidance or directive. One in which the fine was rescinded. But keep beating that drum.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/religious-liberty-department-of-justice-backs-
churchgoers-fined-for-attending-drive-in-easter-service/

As for the “arrest” of the dad playing ball with his kid, from what I can tell, he was detained in the back of a police car and eventually sent on his way. “Arrest,” conjures up images of being finger printed, photographed, charged, held in the pokey unless bailed out or a court appearance is made. It also might have resulted in child protective services taking custody of the kid unless other arrangements had been made. But none of that happened. He was detained and the police department eventually issued an apology. If I have that wrong, please link me to a reputable news source that describes the “arrest,” in detail.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/man-handcuffed-for-playing-t-ball-with-daughter-in-empty-park/1pngzukppayy411amo4ykm44b7

https://www.newsweek.com/police-apologize-handcuffing-man-daughter-1496835

As for the gardening supplies, the governor issued a clarifying statement of which it was clearly stated that she didn’t ban the sale of gardening supplies so maybe the anger and criticism should be directed at Costco or Home Depot or whichever store is blocking their gardening supply aisle?

By all means, feel free to ignore.

I agree it was a boneheaded move. And when the topic is government overreach I don’t mind beating that drum. I’m not going to go out and protest, but when others say there hasn’t been over reach it’s completely reasonable to bring up the church example. One reason being it actually happened multiple times but only one church went to the media about it. If they just went away quietly I doubt it would have been descended. 

All the resources I’ve read indicate gardening supplies are banned in Michigan for stores of 50,000 square feet, so no it isn’t Home Depot’s decision. I don’t know any store smaller than that and is still open that sells them.

you are correct with that dad in the park. Detained is a better word than arrested. And that was a result of improper police action than a city law and government overreach. they were actually allowed there and the cops probably just didn’t know which parks were open or closed. 

They’re not banned. Saying they’re banned is misleading. Like saying “arrested” is misleading. Words matter.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/15/facebook-posts/covid-order-doesnt-ban-
gardening-or-sale-seeds-and/

Is Home Depot or stores over 50,000 square feet the only places to buy seeds or plants? Can homeowners garden?

mcgruff10

what dreams said:

Meltdown99 said:

How long are some of you willing to be locked down for? As long as it takes? 

I'm a teacher. I get laid off two months every year anyway, so I'm used it. This year it's four. No biggie.

You aren’t getting paid for May and June?

F Me In The Brain

what dreams said:

nicknyr15 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

The FDA that is approving the home test is the same FDA that said it is unlikely to catch the virus from food delivery?
The same FDA that put bread, cereal, pasta on the food pyramid?  That pushed Milk on the country as a crucial part of our diets?

Motivated by money.  I'm sure they do many fine things and I would rather have some testing vs no testing by a governing body, but I am always suspicious of the FDA 

I honestly was shocked when they said it wasn’t necessary to wipe down groceries. People touch stuff and put them back every second. How could you recommend to not wipe down anything that comes in from a store? Terrible advice 

I heard a non-FDA scientist speak about this as well, and his argument was all about how many factors would have to be in place. You're at the same store the exact same time as someone else with the virus. That sick person didn't wash his hands or sneezed or whatever. That sick person's droplet has to land on the exact can that you pick up. There were some other steps in between -- but basically said all those factors going into the risk make it very unlucky you'll get it from the can or box or whatever.

I haven't wiped down a single thing I've bought, not my packages, bags, nothing. I'm now wearing my mask, I have hand sanitizer that I apply in the car as soon as I get in, on either side of the grocery trip, I wash my hands as soon as I get home and I wash them again when I'm done putting the food away. I wash produce before it goes in the fridge. But I'm not washing packages. The virus will die before I touch it again once I'm home. If it doesn't, then I guess I'm just one really unlucky person. It's just not sustainable for me to be that hyper-vigilant.

I can understand that.  Since I live with a person with immune system issues I feel compelled to be hyper vigilant.  
I won't go to the store so someone touched the groceries and brings them to my door.  So I have no way of knowing what has or has not happened with them.
Everything either gets wiped down or placed into a holding area for four days before it is touched again.  (Obviously driven by need to refrigerate or freeze, those things all get wiped down.)

It is a pain in the ass but it helps me feel that I am doing what I can to protect the family while not having to only subsist on things in the fridge.

Shit is real, here.  I realize many folks don't live in areas where this stuff is heavily in play or they make the choice to take precautions based on what they feel is necessary.

Spiritual_Chaos

mace1229 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

nicknyr15 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

The FDA that is approving the home test is the same FDA that said it is unlikely to catch the virus from food delivery?
The same FDA that put bread, cereal, pasta on the food pyramid?  That pushed Milk on the country as a crucial part of our diets?

Motivated by money.  I'm sure they do many fine things and I would rather have some testing vs no testing by a governing body, but I am always suspicious of the FDA 

I honestly was shocked when they said it wasn’t necessary to wipe down groceries. People touch stuff and put them back every second. How could you recommend to not wipe down anything that comes in from a store? Terrible advice 

Doubt you really have enough authority on the subject to decide if the advice is terrible or not.

True, besides, everyone knows that plastic and children are magical and incapable of transmitting the virus. 
It's a well-known supernatural phenomenon called the Giesecke-Effect.

Show me those schools outbreaks m8.

Countries are opening up their schools now. Sweden leads the way once again. This is the 1970s law against corporal punisment of children all over again. Sweden the avant garde. Leading the pack. Ahead of the curve. ABBA.

Sweden isn't leading, but it is #10 on the most deaths/1M population due to coronavirus.  I think it was an interesting idea to see how it would play out, unfortunately people were at risk of dying.  Now - it isn't over.  Maybe other countries with a second wave or whatever will fly past Sweden in this terrible statistic.  

Regardless, I just hope this ends soon.

You ever played Mario Kart bro?

Just because Koopa is getting up to speed to lead the pack in the first curve, doesn't mean he is a better character to choose than Bowser.

We won't know the effects on countries for years to come. 

That game is rigged anyway. They always give the last place player red turtle shells.

https://youtu.be/OEfiVLnidgI

mace1229

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mace1229 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

nicknyr15 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

The FDA that is approving the home test is the same FDA that said it is unlikely to catch the virus from food delivery?
The same FDA that put bread, cereal, pasta on the food pyramid?  That pushed Milk on the country as a crucial part of our diets?

Motivated by money.  I'm sure they do many fine things and I would rather have some testing vs no testing by a governing body, but I am always suspicious of the FDA 

I honestly was shocked when they said it wasn’t necessary to wipe down groceries. People touch stuff and put them back every second. How could you recommend to not wipe down anything that comes in from a store? Terrible advice 

Doubt you really have enough authority on the subject to decide if the advice is terrible or not.

True, besides, everyone knows that plastic and children are magical and incapable of transmitting the virus. 
It's a well-known supernatural phenomenon called the Giesecke-Effect.

Show me those schools outbreaks m8.

Countries are opening up their schools now. Sweden leads the way once again. This is the 1970s law against corporal punisment of children all over again. Sweden the avant garde. Leading the pack. Ahead of the curve. ABBA.

Sweden isn't leading, but it is #10 on the most deaths/1M population due to coronavirus.  I think it was an interesting idea to see how it would play out, unfortunately people were at risk of dying.  Now - it isn't over.  Maybe other countries with a second wave or whatever will fly past Sweden in this terrible statistic.  

Regardless, I just hope this ends soon.

You ever played Mario Kart bro?

Just because Koopa is getting up to speed to lead the pack in the first curve, doesn't mean he is a better character to choose than Bowser.

We won't know the effects on countries for years to come. 

That game is rigged anyway. They always give the last place player red turtle shells.

https://youtu.be/OEfiVLnidgI

What is this madness? SNES has the best version, played that all the time. Played N64 a few times.

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The problem I have is with misinformation and misrepresented facts used to back an argument. The praying in their car while listening to a sermon on the radio claim appears to be the work of a boneheaded mayor’s misguided enforcement of a state policy guidance or directive. One in which the fine was rescinded. But keep beating that drum.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/religious-liberty-department-of-justice-backs-
churchgoers-fined-for-attending-drive-in-easter-service/

As for the “arrest” of the dad playing ball with his kid, from what I can tell, he was detained in the back of a police car and eventually sent on his way. “Arrest,” conjures up images of being finger printed, photographed, charged, held in the pokey unless bailed out or a court appearance is made. It also might have resulted in child protective services taking custody of the kid unless other arrangements had been made. But none of that happened. He was detained and the police department eventually issued an apology. If I have that wrong, please link me to a reputable news source that describes the “arrest,” in detail.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/man-handcuffed-for-playing-t-ball-with-daughter-in-empty-park/1pngzukppayy411amo4ykm44b7

https://www.newsweek.com/police-apologize-handcuffing-man-daughter-1496835

As for the gardening supplies, the governor issued a clarifying statement of which it was clearly stated that she didn’t ban the sale of gardening supplies so maybe the anger and criticism should be directed at Costco or Home Depot or whichever store is blocking their gardening supply aisle?

By all means, feel free to ignore.

I agree it was a boneheaded move. And when the topic is government overreach I don’t mind beating that drum. I’m not going to go out and protest, but when others say there hasn’t been over reach it’s completely reasonable to bring up the church example. One reason being it actually happened multiple times but only one church went to the media about it. If they just went away quietly I doubt it would have been descended. 

All the resources I’ve read indicate gardening supplies are banned in Michigan for stores of 50,000 square feet, so no it isn’t Home Depot’s decision. I don’t know any store smaller than that and is still open that sells them.

you are correct with that dad in the park. Detained is a better word than arrested. And that was a result of improper police action than a city law and government overreach. they were actually allowed there and the cops probably just didn’t know which parks were open or closed. 

They’re not banned. Saying they’re banned is misleading. Like saying “arrested” is misleading. Words matter.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/15/facebook-posts/covid-order-doesnt-ban-
gardening-or-sale-seeds-and/

Is Home Depot or stores over 50,000 square feet the only places to buy seeds or plants? Can homeowners garden?

I admitted arrest was not the correct word, although not intentional.
your link says exactly what I said. The governor has required big stores to block off isles of nonessential items. So why some items may not be specifically banned, large states are prohibited/banned/not allowed/whatever word you want from selling them. Exactly what I said. 

And yes, most people get garden supplies along many other things from large retail stores. I can’t think of a small store that sells gardening supplies and is still currently open. Although I’m sure there are some, why make people go to a separate small store when they can get the same item from a large one and be spread out?

Mike D88

Lest anyone forget this is the first post-truth president:

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1252771854844137475?s=20

dignin

We Are Living in a Failed State

The coronavirus didn’t break America. It revealed what was already broken.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/underlying-conditions/610261/

brianlux

Mike D88 said:

Lest anyone forget this is the first post-truth president:

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1252771854844137475?s=20

Mr. Trump...

brianlux

Mike D88 said:

Lest anyone forget this is the first post-truth president:

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1252771854844137475?s=20

Mr. Trump...

pjl44

oftenreading said:

pjl44 said:

oftenreading said:

pjl44 said:

oftenreading said:

pjl44 said:

oftenreading said:

pjl44 said:

Some positive news: LabCorp granted emergency use authorization for at-home tests. Will initially be made available to healthcare workers and first responders and "in the coming weeks" to consumers.

@brianlux, I regret to inform you that it is a nasal swab.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200421005452/en/LabCorp-COVID-19-At-Home-Test-Kit-Receives-FDA

 Interesting. I would like to see their validity data. It's not easy to do a nasopharyngeal swab on yourself. Done correctly, it's a painful procedure, and done incorrectly you won't get a useful sample. I would be concerned about a high rate of false negatives with this. 

I wondered about that, too. But LabCorp is legit so I imagine/think/hope they know what they're doing. 

I want to see their data. I’m not sure I’ll have time today to look for it but I’ll try. 

The directions, too. Hopefully it's not just a gif of The Joker's pencil trick.

So far it’s just all kittens and rainbows and flowers, but no data. Aren’t they obligated to publish this stuff? 

I have learned that the at home test is only a nasal swab, not nasopharyngeal, because the NP swab is “too uncomfortable”. What that change does to accuracy, they don’t say. 

I guess we just have to trust the FDA thumbs up? Maybe you have to look at it similarly to Rx vs OTC drugs. Rx comes with a PI where you can see efficacy data. That same drug goes OTC and it's just directions for use, contraindications, etc. Unless they want to tout the accuracy (like pregnancy tests), do at-home tests generally publish that data publicly?

I don’t know that that’s a good comparison, because if a medication goes off patent or becomes OTC, it’s still the same active ingredient ingested in exactly the same way, whereas this home test kit has at the least a different swabbing strategy, untrained vs trained administrator, and uncontrolled storage and shipping conditions. It needs its own data. 

I complicated my point by saying the same drug. Focusing just on other tests you can buy off shelves, is that data generally available publicly?

pjl44

F Me In The Brain said:

The FDA that is approving the home test is the same FDA that said it is unlikely to catch the virus from food delivery?
The same FDA that put bread, cereal, pasta on the food pyramid?  That pushed Milk on the country as a crucial part of our diets?

Motivated by money.  I'm sure they do many fine things and I would rather have some testing vs no testing by a governing body, but I am always suspicious of the FDA 

I share your beef with the FDA, but will say this: they tend to be way too conservative with this stuff for me, so if they're actually giving the green light I'll go with it.

pjl44

Mike D88 said:

pjl44 said:

I doubt it's a coordinated message. You probably have a mix of (imo) reasonable people upset about the crazier restrictions up to (imo) unreasonable people who think we'd be fine filling the Rose Bowl tomorrow and like shouting in the street.

It's very much a coordinated effort by a few powerful players using what counts as sophisticated methods for their audience. Which is to say their OPSEC is a joke: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/04/whos-behind-the-reopen-domain-surge/

The game is to open things up as soon as possible, whether it's safe or not. Once that genie is out of the bottle, it will be dramatically more difficult to get people to cooperate on closing down a second time. So we'll be back to business permanently at that point, and at risk people will have to die. I'm not making this up, either. The trajectory of this whole effort was made clear weeks ago, when a piece appeared in The Federalist that performed a cost-benefit analysis of reopening. The conclusion of that analysis was that we should let hundreds of thousands die to save the economy. Shortly thereafter the idea spread through American conservatives like, well, a virus. Now here they are, pushing to reopen when 1) testing capacity remains woefully inadequate, 2) no treatments have been found, 3) much about the virus and its lasting effects is still unknown, and 4) the spread has hardly run its course.

The inevitable conclusion of this reopen strategy--unleashed this early--is to make that proposition from The Federalist a reality. It's human sacrifice with extra steps.

I don't know about all that, but I was talking about the attendees

bbiggs

What a shit show this is becoming in the U.S.  Some states are about to open back up, others are extending stay at home orders through the end of May. Give me a break.  No wonder we’re MILES ahead of every country in terms of cases and deaths.  The division here is as great as I’ve ever seen it.  Fucking embarrassing to be honest. 

Ledbetterman10

mace1229 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

nicknyr15 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

The FDA that is approving the home test is the same FDA that said it is unlikely to catch the virus from food delivery?
The same FDA that put bread, cereal, pasta on the food pyramid?  That pushed Milk on the country as a crucial part of our diets?

Motivated by money.  I'm sure they do many fine things and I would rather have some testing vs no testing by a governing body, but I am always suspicious of the FDA 

I honestly was shocked when they said it wasn’t necessary to wipe down groceries. People touch stuff and put them back every second. How could you recommend to not wipe down anything that comes in from a store? Terrible advice 

Doubt you really have enough authority on the subject to decide if the advice is terrible or not.

True, besides, everyone knows that plastic and children are magical and incapable of transmitting the virus. 
It's a well-known supernatural phenomenon called the Giesecke-Effect.

Show me those schools outbreaks m8.

Countries are opening up their schools now. Sweden leads the way once again. This is the 1970s law against corporal punisment of children all over again. Sweden the avant garde. Leading the pack. Ahead of the curve. ABBA.

Sweden isn't leading, but it is #10 on the most deaths/1M population due to coronavirus.  I think it was an interesting idea to see how it would play out, unfortunately people were at risk of dying.  Now - it isn't over.  Maybe other countries with a second wave or whatever will fly past Sweden in this terrible statistic.  

Regardless, I just hope this ends soon.

You ever played Mario Kart bro?

Just because Koopa is getting up to speed to lead the pack in the first curve, doesn't mean he is a better character to choose than Bowser.

We won't know the effects on countries for years to come. 

That game is rigged anyway. They always give the last place player red turtle shells.

Or worse, a lightning bolt 

Meltdown99

mace1229

bbiggs said:

What a shit show this is becoming in the U.S.  Some states are about to open back up, others are extending stay at home orders through the end of May. Give me a break.  No wonder we’re MILES ahead of every country in terms of cases and deaths.  The division here is as great as I’ve ever seen it.  Fucking embarrassing to be honest. 

I haven’t seen stats for about a week, but last I saw I don’t think we were even top 10 per capita. I don’t think we’re number 1 or even close unless you ignore population. Which if you do wouldn’t be an accurate assessment.

Edit: just looked it up, were #6
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.statista.com/chart/amp/21176/covid-19-infection-density-in-countries-most-total-cases/

mace1229

Our governor met with Supers of schools districts today and told them to be prepared for online learning into the fall or staggered/rotating student schedules.
That just seems crazy that by mid August we still won’t be back.