The coronavirus
Comments
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How is it "simple really" when we are all collectively in the middle of it, no expert (you are not one, sorry bud) says it's "simple really", you do not take into account where in the process countries are, the differences in countries, and you to my knowledge can not stand and look back and see the end result.mickeyrat said:rgambs said:
You keep mentioning it as the alternative to Sweden's current path, as though there is no middle ground, wherein businesses are asked to close without forceful intervention.Spiritual_Chaos said:
They are advising on social distancing for all ages.rgambs said:
I guess I need to clarify, social distancing for all ages.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Sweden is advising social distancing. I don't know where you are getting your information from.rgambs said:
Kushner, Trump, Navarro, Giuliani...all massively corrupt morons.Spiritual_Chaos said:Let's emphasize a difference here, in e.g. Sweden (which people on here are bagging on regarding the response to the virus) - the government is basing their decisions and acting on the expertise of the Public Health Authority -- the Swedish madman model of having experts lead the charge basing actions on science instead of politics and loons (Trump) unproven ideas (remember that both Denmark and Norway went against their experts advice on closing schools and borders). Whether better or not than throwing a dart at the wall in isolated instances, 97 times out a 100 bet on science. I say.
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Jared Kushner has coordinated distribution of medical supplies with Republican donors: report"When you ask about the inner circle, it is clear to me," Costa told MSNBC's "Morning Joe," "based on my reporting, that Peter Navarro, more than anyone now, whether it's on urging the president to take a position that's different than Dr. [Anthony] Fauci, or when it comes to the Defense Production Act, nudging corporations, sometimes pushing corporations to do what the White House wants, that Navarro is at the center.""Jared Kushner is there and he's really being a liaison to different donors, to different corporate allies of this administration, which has created confusion about the chain of command, about whether corporations should work through Jared, whether they should work through Vice President [Mike] Pence and the task force," he added.Navarro and other Trump advisers, including Rudy Giuliani, have been overriding medical experts on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine against the coronavirus, and Costa said the president's confidence in that unproven drug was not matched by science.
https://www.salon.com/2020/04/06/jared-kushner-has-coordinated-distribution-of-medical-supplies-with-republican-donors-report_partner/
The fact remains, social distancing to flatten the curve IS the advice of the vast majority of experts around the world. Sweden is an outlier, not because it listens to it's experts more, but because it's experts are offering very different opinions from the majority.
The "we listen to our experts, not political pressure" line is just marketing spin.
I would also point out that where many countries have closed non-essential businesses like pubs, they don't have soldiers in the streets for enforcement, like you keep implying.
I am not implying countries are having soldiers in the streets for enforcement.
You can't "advise social distancing" to little kids, they aren't capable of complying. That's why schools get closed, because the little booger goblins share chapstick and wipe their noses with their palms and cough/sneeze/vomit/fart/burp at will without attempt to isolate or contain.simpke really. l
"simple really"
Speaking like Trump the expert. Go join one of his fantastic press briefings ."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Dr. Fauci praises Iowa and Nebraska's efforts. As we were discussing earlier, a state doesn't need a "stay-at-home order" to be functionally enacting the same precautions.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/06/coronavirus-iowa-reynolds-says-she-spoke-dr-fauci-phone/2955911001/
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Jesus, man. Sorry to hear that.tempo_n_groove said:
My 83 year old cousin just succumbed to this in that way. His heart just stopped beating.bbiggs said:There are reports of the virus damaging not only the lungs, but the heart muscle as well.
We are still getting details but from what we know he was sick for a week and his heart just stopped. He did have Covid.0 -
Social democracy = freedompjl44 said:
He really is. I hope that they turn out right even though I'm skeptical. We truly are all libertarians in a pandemic!rgambs said:Who would have expected the Swede to be coming forward with the Libertarian argument lol
Good luck to you and all of Sweden!
Libertarianism = pointless to even put thought into. Whether in a pandemic or not.
join us!
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
There isn’t a stay at home order but most businesses and schools are closed; where are people going to go? New Jersey is pretty much locked down but essential businesses are still open. Oh and for the most part parks too I haven’t read of anyone getting a fine for leaving their house.pjl44 said:Dr. Fauci praises Iowa and Nebraska's efforts. As we were discussing earlier, a state doesn't need a "stay-at-home order" to be functionally enacting the same precautions.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/06/coronavirus-iowa-reynolds-says-she-spoke-dr-fauci-phone/2955911001/I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
Exactly. I think most states are operating this way with some slight variance. My post is in reaction to a poorly written story about 8 Republican governors not issuing said order without explaining that their states were taking all the same measures regardless.mcgruff10 said:
There isn’t a stay at home order but most businesses and schools are closed; where are people going to go? New Jersey is pretty much locked down but essential businesses are still open. Oh and for the most part parks too I haven’t read of anyone getting a fine for leaving their house.pjl44 said:Dr. Fauci praises Iowa and Nebraska's efforts. As we were discussing earlier, a state doesn't need a "stay-at-home order" to be functionally enacting the same precautions.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/06/coronavirus-iowa-reynolds-says-she-spoke-dr-fauci-phone/2955911001/0 -
They also don't have nearly as many people as NY, LA, New Orleans, etc. Trump has praised certain states in the middle of the country saying that everyone should be doing what they're doing, but the fact of the matter is that most of those states are rural. Not as many people or hospitals there. It makes perfect sense that the virus starts on the coasts (East, West, Gulf) and moves inland. Our cases continue to rise here in MO.mcgruff10 said:
There isn’t a stay at home order but most businesses and schools are closed; where are people going to go? New Jersey is pretty much locked down but essential businesses are still open. Oh and for the most part parks too I haven’t read of anyone getting a fine for leaving their house.pjl44 said:Dr. Fauci praises Iowa and Nebraska's efforts. As we were discussing earlier, a state doesn't need a "stay-at-home order" to be functionally enacting the same precautions.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/06/coronavirus-iowa-reynolds-says-she-spoke-dr-fauci-phone/2955911001/I LOVE MUSIC.
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com0 -
I am thankful that our mayor (and the mayor of STL) took it upon themselves to issue an order. The governor didn't do it until just a few days ago.I LOVE MUSIC.
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com0 -
Terrible news, Chris. I'm sorry for your loss.tempo_n_groove said:
My 83 year old cousin just succumbed to this in that way. His heart just stopped beating.bbiggs said:There are reports of the virus damaging not only the lungs, but the heart muscle as well.
We are still getting details but from what we know he was sick for a week and his heart just stopped. He did have Covid.
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There would be major issues we disagree on, but I generally find more areas of agreement with social democrats vs. more centrist democrats. At least as we use the terms in the US. So we'll probably remain in different corners but there's stuff we can team up on.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Social democracy = freedompjl44 said:
He really is. I hope that they turn out right even though I'm skeptical. We truly are all libertarians in a pandemic!rgambs said:Who would have expected the Swede to be coming forward with the Libertarian argument lol
Good luck to you and all of Sweden!
Libertarianism = pointless to even put thought into. Whether in a pandemic or not.
join us! 0 -
politicalploy. you saw how Abbott in Tx was falling over himself to not say stay at home...... yet, thats what is happening... except for the religious hubris being displayed everywhere...pjl44 said:
Exactly. I think most states are operating this way with some slight variance. My post is in reaction to a poorly written story about 8 Republican governors not issuing said order without explaining that their states were taking all the same measures regardless.mcgruff10 said:
There isn’t a stay at home order but most businesses and schools are closed; where are people going to go? New Jersey is pretty much locked down but essential businesses are still open. Oh and for the most part parks too I haven’t read of anyone getting a fine for leaving their house.pjl44 said:Dr. Fauci praises Iowa and Nebraska's efforts. As we were discussing earlier, a state doesn't need a "stay-at-home order" to be functionally enacting the same precautions.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/06/coronavirus-iowa-reynolds-says-she-spoke-dr-fauci-phone/2955911001/
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
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another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Totally agree. I've read that wyoming hasn't enacted any sort of stay at home order but have you been to wyoming?! With the exception of jackson hole and cheyenne there isn't much in terms of big towns. I remember driving through that state and we'd pass towns with population of 5 and 10 people. Drive 35 miles of nothing then another town of 20 people.mfc2006 said:
They also don't have nearly as many people as NY, LA, New Orleans, etc. Trump has praised certain states in the middle of the country saying that everyone should be doing what they're doing, but the fact of the matter is that most of those states are rural. Not as many people or hospitals there. It makes perfect sense that the virus starts on the coasts (East, West, Gulf) and moves inland. Our cases continue to rise here in MO.mcgruff10 said:
There isn’t a stay at home order but most businesses and schools are closed; where are people going to go? New Jersey is pretty much locked down but essential businesses are still open. Oh and for the most part parks too I haven’t read of anyone getting a fine for leaving their house.pjl44 said:Dr. Fauci praises Iowa and Nebraska's efforts. As we were discussing earlier, a state doesn't need a "stay-at-home order" to be functionally enacting the same precautions.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/06/coronavirus-iowa-reynolds-says-she-spoke-dr-fauci-phone/2955911001/I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
Yup. He used it as part of his narrative that it was "no big deal" or "wouldn't get that bad." When any idiot with half a brain could explain why the middle of country hadn't seen a rise in cases yet.mcgruff10 said:
Totally agree. I've read that wyoming hasn't enacted any sort of stay at home order but have you been to wyoming?! With the exception of jackson hole and cheyenne there isn't much in terms of big towns. I remember driving through that state and we'd pass towns with population of 5 and 10 people. Drive 35 miles of nothing then another town of 20 people.mfc2006 said:
They also don't have nearly as many people as NY, LA, New Orleans, etc. Trump has praised certain states in the middle of the country saying that everyone should be doing what they're doing, but the fact of the matter is that most of those states are rural. Not as many people or hospitals there. It makes perfect sense that the virus starts on the coasts (East, West, Gulf) and moves inland. Our cases continue to rise here in MO.mcgruff10 said:
There isn’t a stay at home order but most businesses and schools are closed; where are people going to go? New Jersey is pretty much locked down but essential businesses are still open. Oh and for the most part parks too I haven’t read of anyone getting a fine for leaving their house.pjl44 said:Dr. Fauci praises Iowa and Nebraska's efforts. As we were discussing earlier, a state doesn't need a "stay-at-home order" to be functionally enacting the same precautions.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/06/coronavirus-iowa-reynolds-says-she-spoke-dr-fauci-phone/2955911001/I LOVE MUSIC.
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com0 -
My condolences bro sorry to hear this terrible news, stay safe..tempo_n_groove said:
My 83 year old cousin just succumbed to this in that way. His heart just stopped beating.bbiggs said:There are reports of the virus damaging not only the lungs, but the heart muscle as well.
We are still getting details but from what we know he was sick for a week and his heart just stopped. He did have Covid.
jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
Sorry to hear about this.tempo_n_groove said:
My 83 year old cousin just succumbed to this in that way. His heart just stopped beating.bbiggs said:There are reports of the virus damaging not only the lungs, but the heart muscle as well.
We are still getting details but from what we know he was sick for a week and his heart just stopped. He did have Covid.0 -
https://twitter.com/essenviews/status/1247222623844458499?s=21
Man people are this stupid please everyone just listen to professionals not the Baffoon not Pence, I’m here in hospital working this hospital has over 600 Covid patients and even though it’s nerve racking to say the least I’m glad I can get some really good information I trust nurses & doctors!!jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
Fingers crossed and holding our breath, but BC seems to be flattening the curve, due to a combination of luck and good leadership from our medical health officer.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-ontario-quebec-covid-19-1.5524056Luck and timing is part of the equation — but leadership at the top could also play a role
Confirmed cases of COVID-19 in British Columbia have increased at a slow rate over the past two weeks, but have gone up dramatically in Quebec and Ontario. (Justin McElroy/CBC News)997commentsThe COVID-19 outbreak is currently more severe in Canada's two largest provinces than it is in British Columbia.
That's not opinion; it's fact.
Whether you go by confirmed cases or hospitalizations, by raw numbers or a per capita comparison, the virus has steadily grown in Ontario and Quebec.
But in B.C., hospitalizations and active cases have been flat for the last week. The disease growth curve, at least at this point, has been flattened.
So, what's the explanation?
"It's very hard to know exactly why," said B.C.'s chief medical health officer, Dr. Bonnie Henry, when asked about the difference on Monday. "Some parts of it are luck, and some parts of it are being prepared."
It's undoubtedly true that B.C. was able to learn from having a few isolated cases in January and February. It's also true the province has been lucky not to have a viral "super-spreader," as has been the case in other places.
However, there's a little bit more to it than that.
Preparation, preparation, preparation
Dr. David Fisman, an epidemiology professor at the University of Toronto, said British Columbia's institutions for disease control have long been a model for the rest of the country.
"You've got a functioning public health system, with integration of lab and epidemiology and service in British Columbia," he said. "Here in Ontario, we have had difficulties with public health leadership culture for a long time."
Fisman says B.C. was able to, as Henry put it, "take a lot of measures early" because they had the lines of communication to quickly scale up a unified response relatively early.
It meant a unified response and messaging to the public were underway before COVID-19 was on the radar for many politicians.
Whereas in Ontario, it took a little longer for everyone to get on the same page.
Ontario Premier Doug Ford "has actually stepped up as a leader," said Fisman. "[But] one has to realize Doug Ford's not a public health physician. He's not a microbiologist, and he's not an epidemiologist. So, he's very much dependent on the advice he's given."
Timing of spring break
One way that played out was over spring break.
On March 12, B.C. recommended against all non-essential travel outside of Canada, while Ford told families to "go away" and "have fun" during the week-long holiday.
"You could see this coming," said Fisman. "There was talk in the epidemiology field that we really can't have a million people return to Ontario from places with unfettered COVID transmission. It's gonna be a very bad thing for us, but we didn't use that opportunity."
At the same time, British Columbia was fortunate that the scheduled spring break for students was later than in other jurisdictions — allowing health officials to adapt.
"We learned from Quebec," said Henry.
"Their March break was two weeks earlier than ours, and people were coming back … from places like France, and coming home from March break and getting sick."
Fisman also credited B.C. for putting in an early measure to stop health-care workers from working at multiple care homes, which was a big factor in preventing community transmission.
But ultimately he believes a big part of B.C.'s fortune comes from the person who speaks to British Columbians at every news conference.
"Bonnie Henry stays at press conferences and answers the questions … and doesn't shade the truth. She's frank and honest and emotional with people," he said.
"And given that part of this response depends on being altruistic and doing the right thing to help other people who we will never meet, having a leader who can articulate how we're all in this together and make a convincing case for why you need to do your part … is very important."
Playing 'the hand we're dealt'
Henry's direct experience in overseeing Toronto's SARS and H1N1 outbreaks is the type of background that's impossible to quantify in a situation like this. Henry herself doesn't mention it at news conferences.
"Part of [curve-flattening] was the system we had in place to detect cases … and part of it was luck, and part of it was timing," she said.
But Fisman believes Henry's experience has been crucial.
"We all play the hand we're dealt. [British Columbia] has played the hand they've been dealt very, very well. And you can see it in the numbers," he said.
"Ontario has played the hand that it's dealt in a way that is not the United States … but I think Ontario is lagging."
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
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Is it just me or are a lot of countries in Europe and Canada/US hitting their apex much sooner than predicted? We need a couple of more days of data and need to get past the weekend numbers but we are not seeing the huge spikes of deaths so far as previously thought. Fingers crossed.0
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mcgruff10 said:@oftenreading did BC schools open after spring break?
Only "open" for remote education, which both of my nephews are doing (K and Gr. 7).
Also, each family was given a specific time to go to the school to pick up students' belongings.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0
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