The coronavirus

Spiritual_Chaos

https://twitter.com/mikememoli/status/1241827202435596289?s=20

Thoughts_Arrive

pjl44 said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

pjl44 said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Anyone else pissed off at China?

Yes. The WHO, too. I think there's plenty of capacity to deal with the problem best you can and also be aggravated about the situation. Don't let people gaslight you into thinking that's only being discussed in right wing circles.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/china-trolling-world-and-avoiding-blame/608332/

look in the Trump thread, I've had two people call me a racist in there...

Unless you've said something different there than you have here, that's insane

Nope, the same thing. 

Thoughts_Arrive

mcgruff10 said:

I am pissed at China and I hope in the future they have better health codes/some sort of enforcement/rules for these wet markets.  I am pissed at the US government because they definitely dropped the ball. I'm even more pissed at the morons who are still not taking this seriously.  I'm pissed at the idiots who buy 258 rolls of toilet paper.  And finally I'm pissed off that I am not in quebec city right now.  

Ssshhh, don't criticise China here. You'll be called a racist.

Thoughts_Arrive

Spiritual_Chaos said:

As in, STOP EATING MEAT = STOP EMERGING VIRUS PANDEMICS


lowest common denominator

No need to use this disaster to push your vegan agenda.
People have been eating meat for thousands of years and there has not been something like this before.
How about Chinese people stop eating bats and pangolins and all other animals that should not be eaten.

Thoughts_Arrive

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Anyone else pissed off at China?

Stop watching Fox News

What Fox News have to do with being pissed at China cover covering this up, lying about it, threatening their own doctors for trying talk about how dangerous this is? That’s all facts, we could have been a month or 2 ahead of this if they didn’t  cover this up and ban outsider scientists from researching the virus.
What does any of that have to do with Fox News?

Thank you.
I hate Murdoch media. As if I'd watch his shit programs.

Thoughts_Arrive

Muffin The Mule said:

My friend Nik died on Friday. He was only 56. He contracted coronavirus from a work colleague who had returned from Italy. he had no underlying symptoms. We are in a state of total shock. Stay safe out there.

Sorry about your loss. Did he have a pre-existing condition? 

mickeyrat

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

As in, STOP EATING MEAT = STOP EMERGING VIRUS PANDEMICS


lowest common denominator

No need to use this disaster to push your vegan agenda.
People have been eating meat for thousands of years and there has not been something like this before.
How about Chinese people stop eating bats and pangolins and all other animals that should not be eaten.

and who is to say it jumped from consumption?

mcgruff10

Very interesting op-ed from Thailand:
https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/1883355/a-vaccine-against-outbreaks-ban-wildlife-trade

As Thailand and its neighbors scramble to contain the pandemic and panic, we urgently need to start building a response to the source of Covid-19, or risk having new outbreaks hit us even harder. There is good reason to believe that we know the source -- global wildlife trade -- and that there is a solution.

Scant attention is being paid by world leaders to the fact that Covid-19 jumped to people from wild critters on sale. Experts agree that the likely source this time was a bat, either transmitted directly to a person or through a pangolin, the world's most heavily trafficked mammal. Whichever animal it was in Wuhan, China, that passed Covid-19 to its first victims, it was either smuggled by a trafficker or supplied by captive breeders, many of whom stock their animals from traffickers.

But this virus is not just about China, bats or pangolins. Zoonotic outbreaks have hit us before, and they will hit us again if we keep over-exploiting animals.

In Africa, HIV (initially SIV) and Ebola both jumped from endangered primates to people, most likely through bush-meat trade; domesticated camels in the Middle East passed on deadly Mers; migrating water fowl infected poultry in busy Hong Kong markets, resulting in bird flu; civets offered on Chinese menus gave us Sars. All of these viruses led to sickness, deaths, and economic disruption.

China's 2003 response to Sars, another coronavirus, was to destroy 846,000 animals. That clearly was not the solution. With Covid-19, they have closed their wet markets and banned wildlife trade. Vietnam appears set to the same. What about Thailand?

How many Thailand residents realise that many of the pangolins, snakes and turtles trafficked into Wuhan and other Chinese markets transited the Kingdom? And that species trafficked from around the world also still end up in Chatuchak market, on secret menus in Bangkok and Pattaya, and for sale on social media?

The world's top virus experts agree that zoonotic outbreaks like Covid-19 will get worse as wild animal trade increases and wild animal habitats shrink. We need to re-think our relationship with the wild.

Conservationists have long been trying to convince world leaders and legislatures to prioritise laws and budgets that protect wild animals in their natural habitats, and to roll back the multi-billion dollar trade in wildlife that is driving the fastest rate of species loss in history. The usual response: "Wild animals need to take a back seat to national security and humanitarian needs," even though we have demonstrated that organised crime and insurgencies are linked to wildlife trafficking.

Perhaps one silver lining from Covid-19 is that it demonstrates that wildlife protection is integral to international security and human welfare.

Thailand has a newly improved wildlife law and is helping to draft an Asean plan to reduce wildlife trafficking across Southeast Asia. The Thailand-supported, Asean "Plan of Action" (POA) on Wildlife Trafficking is designed to protect wild animals from commercial poaching so that they are not trafficked across borders onto dodgy markets. It also features campaigns to kill the demand for rare and endangered species so that people don't get sick and cause extinction. But like Thai law, the Asean plan still allows for legal wildlife trade, and lacks high-level attention, funding and multi-agency implementation.

Thai officials and NGO partners, including our organisation, have been chomping at the bit to tighten and implement the Thai wildlife law and Asean Plan of Action. In letters to Minister of Natural Resources and Environment Varawut Silpa-archa this week, NGOs expressed their desire to see Thailand shut down wildlife markets and legal loopholes allowing some captive breeders to sell trafficked animals.

Thailand can play a leading roll in Southeast Asia to prevent zoonotic outbreaks from recurring, but it needs to lead by example by banning wildlife trade and including wildlife protection as part of its broader response to Covid-19. Thailand's lawmakers should further strengthen Thai wildlife law, increase resources for protection of wild animals and habitat, enact the Asean Plan of Action, and close down (not regulate) wildlife markets that remain on Thailand's streets and websites.

It is time to recognise that secure wildlife and wild habitats are critical investments and insurance policies for human security and economic stability.

Thoughts_Arrive

mickeyrat said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

As in, STOP EATING MEAT = STOP EMERGING VIRUS PANDEMICS


lowest common denominator

No need to use this disaster to push your vegan agenda.
People have been eating meat for thousands of years and there has not been something like this before.
How about Chinese people stop eating bats and pangolins and all other animals that should not be eaten.

and who is to say it jump from consumption?

Medical experts believe it started from the consumption of pangolins and maybe bats too, or bats infected pangolins that were then consumed by people 

Merkin Baller

mickeyrat said:

Soooooo, the wife slices her finger pretty good while making coleslaw. Currently at the ER. Well SHE is. I am in the parking lot. No visitors period. Full stop. Gave her a mask upon entrance.

Oh no, I hope she’s ok & you guys get home quickly. 

mickeyrat

Thoughts_Arrive said:

mickeyrat said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

As in, STOP EATING MEAT = STOP EMERGING VIRUS PANDEMICS


lowest common denominator

No need to use this disaster to push your vegan agenda.
People have been eating meat for thousands of years and there has not been something like this before.
How about Chinese people stop eating bats and pangolins and all other animals that should not be eaten.

and who is to say it jump from consumption?

Medical experts believe it started from the consumption of pangolins and maybe bats too, or bats infected pangolins that were then consumed by people 

ok. but its an airborne pathogen at least between humans, so while I grant that it could have jumped via consumption, isnt it more likely greater numbers of people became infected simply by being in those markets near those animals?

Thoughts_Arrive

mickeyrat said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

mickeyrat said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

As in, STOP EATING MEAT = STOP EMERGING VIRUS PANDEMICS


lowest common denominator

No need to use this disaster to push your vegan agenda.
People have been eating meat for thousands of years and there has not been something like this before.
How about Chinese people stop eating bats and pangolins and all other animals that should not be eaten.

and who is to say it jump from consumption?

Medical experts believe it started from the consumption of pangolins and maybe bats too, or bats infected pangolins that were then consumed by people 

ok. but its an airborne pathogen at least between humans, so while I grant that it could have jumped via consumption, isnt it more likely greater numbers of people became infected simply by being in those markets near those animals?

Maybe. But the source is still consumption. And then that one or two or three people that ate the pangolins spread it via the air.

myoung321

I really have to stop... no really! Sooo Stressful!!!  I need to stop... It will help if I just stop.....!!!!!!!

.

.

..
 Stop watching the Trump White House Briefings ...   

Spiritual_Chaos

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

As in, STOP EATING MEAT = STOP EMERGING VIRUS PANDEMICS


lowest common denominator

No need to use this disaster to push your vegan agenda.
People have been eating meat for thousands of years and there has not been something like this before.
How about Chinese people stop eating bats and pangolins and all other animals that should not be eaten.

Like you have the right to be an authority on what "should be eaten" and not.

And no need to use this disaster to skew truths others post because it doesn't fit into your lifestyle or limited perspective or whatever.

bbiggs

mickeyrat said:

Soooooo, the wife slices her finger pretty good while making coleslaw. Currently at the ER. Well SHE is. I am in the parking lot. No visitors period. Full stop. Gave her a mask upon entrance.

That sucks! Hope she’s ok. Terrible timing. My 6 year old gashed his head on the corner of a dresser pretty bad the other night. Luckily not deep enough for stitches, but I was immediately thinking I’d stitch that shit up myself rather than going to the ER. 

Lerxst1992

pjl44 said:

We should avoid making cruelly smug posts if someone we don't like tests positive yet also freely acknowledge that Rand Paul is a colossal asshole for not quarantining until he got his results

I absolutely do not want any harm to anyone. If harm must come, if it were towards a libertarian who stood against the initial relief package, who was publicly against stay at home orders, who cries for liberty in the face of a deadly pandemic, I’m not sure if “good” is the right word, it  isn’t, but perhaps that’s a lesson for all in this time of crisis. IIRC your views are supportive of libertarianism and I need to be respectful of that. I don’t think the govt is interested in permanently taking away our liberty, I think their priority is saving lives. But some do have frustration with excessive loyalty to beliefs in face of facts and logic that’s difficult to communicate appropriately 

below is a comment I pulled from a right leaning libertarian forum I posted here the other day . Interesting to consider -



“ It certainly seems like the Constitution is not currently in effect; with the freedom to assemble and the liberty to move about savagely curtailed, and our fundamental rights eroding to nil in the name of public safety. Hardly anyone seems to care either. Fear has swept the country, and the will of the people to resist the hamfist of state has crumpled.

So what threshold did we really cross? How many people need to be in danger before we just quit? Who gets to decide when enough is enough? The media? The trending hashtags? At what point does the constitution no longer impede our collective demands for reactionary government? Do we get a line in the sand?

Going forward, will every flu season inspire quarantines? Will every scary news story demand compliance to the powers that be? Do we just mark the constitution up with a big asterisk that says "Only when things are OK.", or do we just shred the thing altogether?

It's disheartening to see fear as the chief motivating factor for modern society at this point. We are totally vulnerable to the wills of any power capable of convincing the masses that they are in grave danger. We've supplanted self determination and personal responsibility with compliance to a shared narrative framework.

We've come full circle from the age of enlightenment to the dark ages. All it took was the threat of plague. And that's the real cost here.

Lives will be lost, grief will be suffered. But it's the liberty we choose to give away that stains our generation."

Thoughts_Arrive

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

As in, STOP EATING MEAT = STOP EMERGING VIRUS PANDEMICS


lowest common denominator

No need to use this disaster to push your vegan agenda.
People have been eating meat for thousands of years and there has not been something like this before.
How about Chinese people stop eating bats and pangolins and all other animals that should not be eaten.

Like you have the right to be an authority on what "should be eaten" and not.

And no need to use this disaster to skew truths others post because it doesn't fit into your lifestyle or limited perspective or whatever.

wtf! How am I skewing or being an authority.
Proove to me that eating beef, pork, chicken has caused a pandemic like this in the past!

Thoughts_Arrive

If I ever see someone eating a bat or pangolin I will fucking stomp on them.

Spiritual_Chaos

State epidemiologist Anders Tegnell sees hope that the curve for the number of infected with the coronavirus is being flattened.

- It will calm down properly in May. We have a weather that the virus does not like in the same way and hopefully we a lot of immune in society then, ”he says in SVT's“ Agenda ”.

He also says that a test of randomly selected Swedes should give a picture of how large the spread of infection really is.

mcgruff10

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

As in, STOP EATING MEAT = STOP EMERGING VIRUS PANDEMICS


lowest common denominator

No need to use this disaster to push your vegan agenda.
People have been eating meat for thousands of years and there has not been something like this before.
How about Chinese people stop eating bats and pangolins and all other animals that should not be eaten.

Like you have the right to be an authority on what "should be eaten" and not.

And no need to use this disaster to skew truths others post because it doesn't fit into your lifestyle or limited perspective or whatever.

pot meets kettle.