The false narrative that "we weren't prepared and both sides dropped the ball," is patently false. Read up on Obama's response to Ebola, the damning criticism he took because he had American victims, aid workers from the infection zone brought to Texas for treatment, two of whom died, and how he responded and then how his administration handed pandemic planning off to the Team Trump Treason Administration. Perfect? No, but a hell of a lot more prepared, thoughtful and caring than the current clown show.
For all you pro-business people out there, do businesses, and States for that matter, like manufacturers, food stores, hardware, healthcare, you name it, routinely overstock their supply rooms and warehouses? Anyone in supply chain management? What has the mantra been for decades now? "Just in time inventory/delivery," right? So, who is responsible for the 100 or 150 year flood, forest fires or other natural disasters or pandemic? FEMA or the feds, right? And which political party has demonized the role of the federal government in providing for the common good and tried to starve it to death with tax cuts? And which Administration has left hundreds, if not thousands, of Executive Branch positions unfilled? Read up on the FEMA and CDC's lack of direction and decision making because of unfilled positions and the lack of experience of those who were appointed to fill positions. Team Trump Treason and most of the folks in his administration have not a clue as to what levers are available to them, never mind pull, in times of normalcy and particularly in a crises. And they don't listen to the experts anyway.
"Heckuva job, Brownie."
If the US re-elects this idiot in chief after this is over, there is no hope for making "things better," and you better be prepared to live in a "shit hole country."
Anything/Anybody other than Team Trump Treason 2020.
Ok so no one is to blame cool so the same can be said of no one takes responsibility correct? And who do you think will take credit when this is over?
Blah blah blah. I never said trump didn’t drop the ball holy shit. Cool down dude. Not everything is a personal political attack. I’m just saying both sides acted irresponsibly. That’s a fact. Hopefully we’ll all be better prepared for the next one.
lol both sides please tell me the sides or teams you speak of? Who will take responsibility for saving the world I’m asking a question..
I wasn’t defending trump. I’m just showing how completely unprepared everyone was and how neither side took this seriously until it was too late. And of course he’ll claim he saved the world. We’re in the middle of it and all he does is talking about the terrific job he’s doing. It’s old news. His actions don’t shock or surprise me anymore.
Here is my take. Most of the Western World did not do a good job with this. But....There is only one US President right now. There is only one WHite House Administration right now. There is only one Republican controlled Senate.
It is the President's job to lead, and then people follow. The governors were left to fend for themselves and took the lead from the WHite House that this wasn't a big deal and was an impeachment hoax. The different government organizations take the lead from the administration. You can say everyone was unprepared, but there was information out there in Dec/Jan and the leader/party that is in power and asked for votes so they could be in power and in-charge failed to act soon enough. If someone that works for me fails to start a project and the client gets mad, they are calling me because it is my fault and failure to lead.
Sure, we were unprepared before Trump took office. But there were two months practically that the US failed to lead and take action.
Ok so no one is to blame cool so the same can be said of no one takes responsibility correct? And who do you think will take credit when this is over?
Hopefully China. Edit: Blame not credit.
lol knowing what you know about this whole thing you don’t believe anyone will take credit for when this crisis passes? Really you can’t think of anyone who will claim they are the reason for the crisis being over?
I misread your original post. I don't care who takes credit for ending it, I just want it to be over with for everyone.
Same here. It’s mentally draining and depressing. I’m going to be grateful for so many things after this. Something as simple as going out to dinner with my wife.
For sure. I miss not worrying about touching something without wondering who touched it before me. I pretty much see a door knob as a steaming pile of shit these days.
Ok so no one is to blame cool so the same can be said of no one takes responsibility correct? And who do you think will take credit when this is over?
Hopefully China. Edit: Blame not credit.
lol knowing what you know about this whole thing you don’t believe anyone will take credit for when this crisis passes? Really you can’t think of anyone who will claim they are the reason for the crisis being over?
I misread your original post. I don't care who takes credit for ending it, I just want it to be over with for everyone.
Same here. It’s mentally draining and depressing. I’m going to be grateful for so many things after this. Something as simple as going out to dinner with my wife.
For sure. I miss not worrying about touching something without wondering who touched it before me. I pretty much see a door knob as a steaming pile of shit these days.
It feels unsafe to go to the grocery store. Unreal. If I have a runny nose is this COVID? I coughed twice today, is this the start of something? How am I going to feel when I wake up tomorrow? This is just crazy!
Ok so no one is to blame cool so the same can be said of no one takes responsibility correct? And who do you think will take credit when this is over?
Blah blah blah. I never said trump didn’t drop the ball holy shit. Cool down dude. Not everything is a personal political attack. I’m just saying both sides acted irresponsibly. That’s a fact. Hopefully we’ll all be better prepared for the next one.
lol both sides please tell me the sides or teams you speak of? Who will take responsibility for saving the world I’m asking a question..
I wasn’t defending trump. I’m just showing how completely unprepared everyone was and how neither side took this seriously until it was too late. And of course he’ll claim he saved the world. We’re in the middle of it and all he does is talking about the terrific job he’s doing. It’s old news. His actions don’t shock or surprise me anymore.
Here is my take. Most of the Western World did not do a good job with this. But....There is only one US President right now. There is only one WHite House Administration right now. There is only one Republican controlled Senate.
It is the President's job to lead, and then people follow. The governors were left to fend for themselves and took the lead from the WHite House that this wasn't a big deal and was an impeachment hoax. The different government organizations take the lead from the administration. You can say everyone was unprepared, but there was information out there in Dec/Jan and the leader/party that is in power and asked for votes so they could be in power and in-charge failed to act soon enough. If someone that works for me fails to start a project and the client gets mad, they are calling me because it is my fault and failure to lead.
Sure, we were unprepared before Trump took office. But there were two months practically that the US failed to lead and take action.
Not trying to poke the bear, but in all fairness the only thing the Democrats were focused on was the ongoing impeachment when the initial news broke. Not saying this is their fault, just stating that they had their minds elsewhere as well. I do agree with many of your points.
Ok so no one is to blame cool so the same can be said of no one takes responsibility correct? And who do you think will take credit when this is over?
Hopefully China. Edit: Blame not credit.
lol knowing what you know about this whole thing you don’t believe anyone will take credit for when this crisis passes? Really you can’t think of anyone who will claim they are the reason for the crisis being over?
I misread your original post. I don't care who takes credit for ending it, I just want it to be over with for everyone.
Same here. It’s mentally draining and depressing. I’m going to be grateful for so many things after this. Something as simple as going out to dinner with my wife.
For sure. I miss not worrying about touching something without wondering who touched it before me. I pretty much see a door knob as a steaming pile of shit these days.
It feels unsafe to go to the grocery store. Unreal. If I have a runny nose is this COVID? I coughed twice today, is this the start of something? How am I going to feel when I wake up tomorrow? This is just crazy!
Ok so no one is to blame cool so the same can be said of no one takes responsibility correct? And who do you think will take credit when this is over?
Hopefully China. Edit: Blame not credit.
lol knowing what you know about this whole thing you don’t believe anyone will take credit for when this crisis passes? Really you can’t think of anyone who will claim they are the reason for the crisis being over?
I misread your original post. I don't care who takes credit for ending it, I just want it to be over with for everyone.
Same here. It’s mentally draining and depressing. I’m going to be grateful for so many things after this. Something as simple as going out to dinner with my wife.
For sure. I miss not worrying about touching something without wondering who touched it before me. I pretty much see a door knob as a steaming pile of shit these days.
It feels unsafe to go to the grocery store. Unreal. If I have a runny nose is this COVID? I coughed twice today, is this the start of something? How am I going to feel when I wake up tomorrow? This is just crazy!
I feel you. I had to drop off laundry yesterday. I live in NYC and laundromats are essential for all of us with no laundry rooms in our building. The laundromat I went to only has drop off service now. You can't use the machines yourself. She was only letting one person in at a time to drop off the laundry. When I was in there - two other people were waiting outside to come in. Today when I pick my laundry up I will be wearing gloves. When I get home, I will leave the laundry bag on the floor and not touch it to remove my clothes for about 2 days. Living like this is like some bizarre alternative universe. It is very scary. It will be very hard to get back to normal after this. I can't even imagine getting on a crowded subway again without having a panic attack.
There is only one side here - get beyond this with as little life lost as possible, with as much left of the world economy as possible.
In the US there is only one person in charge. The buck stops there. That same person holds the Senate so nothing is making it through without that person's party supporting it.
So tired of the deflection.
Someone slap this grandstanding idiot back to reality and tell him to lead. Stop arguing with people quoting the idiotic things you say back to you. Stop measuring the audience size of your updates on this terror filled situation against reality TV and football ratings. Grow the fuck up.
I can't believe all of the people who have anything good to say about this piece of crap. We all should be angry - it doesn't matter what you think about abortion or health care programs - this is about the continuation of American Life as we know it
Thank you, I was really starting to need a Giesecke update!
No problems. He will lead us all through this!
Isn't he the guy who favors gatherings of 50 or more people? Why is he so much more right than all the other scientists around the world who favor sheltering at home and social distancing?
Don't know what he has said regarding 50 or more people. But this is what he said when we had our first ban, of 500 people:
Johan Giesecke also criticizes the government's decision to ban public gatherings with more than 500 people.
- If you believe in that kind of measure, there should be fewer in each group.
How many then?
- 10-25, somewhere there.
and
Sweden's decision to stop public gatherings of more than 500 people is "a half-measure" and its effectiveness can be called into question. This is stated by the infection protection expert and former state epidemiologist Johan Giesecke in SVT's Aktuellt.
- If you want to do that, I think you should have a little smaller groups, he says.
The statement came in comparison with how other countries have acted, where, among other things, Finland and Denmark set the limit for a maximum of ten people.
However, Giesecke emphasizes that there is no science on which number of constraints is best. Denmark previously had a limit of a maximum of 100 people, but it was changed to ten during Tuesday.
Unless they are children, of course. If they are children then let them snot and spit and cough all over each other. Because...science?
But Johan Giesecke, professor emeritus at the Karolinska Institute, adviser to the WHO and former state epidemiologist is not particularly worried about infection in preschool and school environments.
- There are things pointing to children not being very contagious. There are no studies on this, that is hard to do. But WHO had a delegation in China a month ago, where they asked doctors and epidemiologists if they knew of cases where a child had infected an adult, none of them could recall such a case. On a scientific basis, that in itself is quite thin. But there has also been no outbreak in Chinese schools - and if children were heavily infected, they would have seen school outbreaks, says Johan Giesecke to the Teachers' Journal.
Doctors and nurses in several countries have been reported to be seriously ill, something DN, among others, has told us about. One thesis is that those exposed to large viral doses are at higher risk of serious illness. Teachers and preschool teachers also meet many sick children under normal circumstances.
- In a normal classroom, with a child who is infected, there is no great danger. What is really dangerous is to intubate people, to stab a tube in the throat of those who need to be cared for in a respirator. A lot of virus particles are produced there. But in a larger room, the particles are diluted and do not go that far. I don't consider that being in close contact or in contact for a long time either. A close contact is to sit next to someone for several hours on an airplane, says Johan Giesecke.
How worried should one be as a teacher in preschool or school? - No need to worry. Most people who work in preschool and school are young and healthy people. For them it is not a huge risk, it is as good to get infected as you are rid of it (@rgambs). It is a completely different matter for the elderly, where it is important not to spread infection to the homes of the elderly. But spreading infection among children and young healthy adults is no danger, says Johan Giesecke.
Yeah, that is a profoundly idiotic statement that will be the discredit of his entire career. When this is all over and thousands or tens of thousands of children and young healthy adults are gone from the world, I hope he gets held to task and ostracized from the world's scientific community.
So how many lethal school outbreaks have there been in China according to you? How many are happening in Sweden right now?
How many healthy adults and elderly people have been infected by community spread through school-aged children? We will never know. Children are known to be carriers and less likely to know so, due to a lower incidence of severe symptoms. You've got your Johan Giesecke, and then there's almost literally every other expert in the world...you're like a climate change denier swimming against the tide stuttering about the Sun and outlier results.
Haven't seen him urging the elders to hang around kids. But please point me to a source, and I might reconsider Johan M.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Thank you, I was really starting to need a Giesecke update!
No problems. He will lead us all through this!
Isn't he the guy who favors gatherings of 50 or more people? Why is he so much more right than all the other scientists around the world who favor sheltering at home and social distancing?
Don't know what he has said regarding 50 or more people. But this is what he said when we had our first ban, of 500 people:
Johan Giesecke also criticizes the government's decision to ban public gatherings with more than 500 people.
- If you believe in that kind of measure, there should be fewer in each group.
How many then?
- 10-25, somewhere there.
and
Sweden's decision to stop public gatherings of more than 500 people is "a half-measure" and its effectiveness can be called into question. This is stated by the infection protection expert and former state epidemiologist Johan Giesecke in SVT's Aktuellt.
- If you want to do that, I think you should have a little smaller groups, he says.
The statement came in comparison with how other countries have acted, where, among other things, Finland and Denmark set the limit for a maximum of ten people.
However, Giesecke emphasizes that there is no science on which number of constraints is best. Denmark previously had a limit of a maximum of 100 people, but it was changed to ten during Tuesday.
Unless they are children, of course. If they are children then let them snot and spit and cough all over each other. Because...science?
But Johan Giesecke, professor emeritus at the Karolinska Institute, adviser to the WHO and former state epidemiologist is not particularly worried about infection in preschool and school environments.
- There are things pointing to children not being very contagious. There are no studies on this, that is hard to do. But WHO had a delegation in China a month ago, where they asked doctors and epidemiologists if they knew of cases where a child had infected an adult, none of them could recall such a case. On a scientific basis, that in itself is quite thin. But there has also been no outbreak in Chinese schools - and if children were heavily infected, they would have seen school outbreaks, says Johan Giesecke to the Teachers' Journal.
Doctors and nurses in several countries have been reported to be seriously ill, something DN, among others, has told us about. One thesis is that those exposed to large viral doses are at higher risk of serious illness. Teachers and preschool teachers also meet many sick children under normal circumstances.
- In a normal classroom, with a child who is infected, there is no great danger. What is really dangerous is to intubate people, to stab a tube in the throat of those who need to be cared for in a respirator. A lot of virus particles are produced there. But in a larger room, the particles are diluted and do not go that far. I don't consider that being in close contact or in contact for a long time either. A close contact is to sit next to someone for several hours on an airplane, says Johan Giesecke.
How worried should one be as a teacher in preschool or school? - No need to worry. Most people who work in preschool and school are young and healthy people. For them it is not a huge risk, it is as good to get infected as you are rid of it (@rgambs). It is a completely different matter for the elderly, where it is important not to spread infection to the homes of the elderly. But spreading infection among children and young healthy adults is no danger, says Johan Giesecke.
Yeah, that is a profoundly idiotic statement that will be the discredit of his entire career. When this is all over and thousands or tens of thousands of children and young healthy adults are gone from the world, I hope he gets held to task and ostracized from the world's scientific community.
So how many lethal school outbreaks have there been in China according to you? How many are happening in Sweden right now?
How many healthy adults and elderly people have been infected by community spread through school-aged children? We will never know. Children are known to be carriers and less likely to know so, due to a lower incidence of severe symptoms. You've got your Johan Giesecke, and then there's almost literally every other expert in the world...you're like a climate change denier swimming against the tide stuttering about the Sun and outlier results.
Haven't seen him urging the elders to hang around kids. But please point me to a source, and I might reconsider Johan M.
But who takes care of the kids if the parents are at work? In many cases that would be old people.
How many people die after being infected with the novel coronavirus? Fewer than previously calculated, according to a study released Monday, but still more than die from the flu.
The research, published in the medical journal The Lancet Infectious Diseases, estimated that about 0.66% of those infected with the virus will die.
That coronavirus death rate, which is lower than earlier estimates, takes into account potentially milder cases that often go undiagnosed -- but it's still far higher than the 0.1% of people who are killed by the flu.
Ok so no one is to blame cool so the same can be said of no one takes responsibility correct? And who do you think will take credit when this is over?
Blah blah blah. I never said trump didn’t drop the ball holy shit. Cool down dude. Not everything is a personal political attack. I’m just saying both sides acted irresponsibly. That’s a fact. Hopefully we’ll all be better prepared for the next one.
lol both sides please tell me the sides or teams you speak of? Who will take responsibility for saving the world I’m asking a question..
I wasn’t defending trump. I’m just showing how completely unprepared everyone was and how neither side took this seriously until it was too late. And of course he’ll claim he saved the world. We’re in the middle of it and all he does is talking about the terrific job he’s doing. It’s old news. His actions don’t shock or surprise me anymore.
Here is my take. Most of the Western World did not do a good job with this. But....There is only one US President right now. There is only one WHite House Administration right now. There is only one Republican controlled Senate.
It is the President's job to lead, and then people follow. The governors were left to fend for themselves and took the lead from the WHite House that this wasn't a big deal and was an impeachment hoax. The different government organizations take the lead from the administration. You can say everyone was unprepared, but there was information out there in Dec/Jan and the leader/party that is in power and asked for votes so they could be in power and in-charge failed to act soon enough. If someone that works for me fails to start a project and the client gets mad, they are calling me because it is my fault and failure to lead.
Sure, we were unprepared before Trump took office. But there were two months practically that the US failed to lead and take action.
Not trying to poke the bear, but in all fairness the only thing the Democrats were focused on was the ongoing impeachment when the initial news broke. Not saying this is their fault, just stating that they had their minds elsewhere as well. I do agree with many of your points.
***This is not an endorsement for trump***
Do you think they were wrong to impeach him over the Ukraine bullshit?
Ok so no one is to blame cool so the same can be said of no one takes responsibility correct? And who do you think will take credit when this is over?
Blah blah blah. I never said trump didn’t drop the ball holy shit. Cool down dude. Not everything is a personal political attack. I’m just saying both sides acted irresponsibly. That’s a fact. Hopefully we’ll all be better prepared for the next one.
lol both sides please tell me the sides or teams you speak of? Who will take responsibility for saving the world I’m asking a question..
I wasn’t defending trump. I’m just showing how completely unprepared everyone was and how neither side took this seriously until it was too late. And of course he’ll claim he saved the world. We’re in the middle of it and all he does is talking about the terrific job he’s doing. It’s old news. His actions don’t shock or surprise me anymore.
Here is my take. Most of the Western World did not do a good job with this. But....There is only one US President right now. There is only one WHite House Administration right now. There is only one Republican controlled Senate.
It is the President's job to lead, and then people follow. The governors were left to fend for themselves and took the lead from the WHite House that this wasn't a big deal and was an impeachment hoax. The different government organizations take the lead from the administration. You can say everyone was unprepared, but there was information out there in Dec/Jan and the leader/party that is in power and asked for votes so they could be in power and in-charge failed to act soon enough. If someone that works for me fails to start a project and the client gets mad, they are calling me because it is my fault and failure to lead.
Sure, we were unprepared before Trump took office. But there were two months practically that the US failed to lead and take action.
Not trying to poke the bear, but in all fairness the only thing the Democrats were focused on was the ongoing impeachment when the initial news broke. Not saying this is their fault, just stating that they had their minds elsewhere as well. I do agree with many of your points.
***This is not an endorsement for trump***
Do you think they were wrong to impeach him over the Ukraine bullshit?
Stop, not here, let's not do this!
Corona type shit on this thread or it will really go more sideways than it already has...
Ok so no one is to blame cool so the same can be said of no one takes responsibility correct? And who do you think will take credit when this is over?
Blah blah blah. I never said trump didn’t drop the ball holy shit. Cool down dude. Not everything is a personal political attack. I’m just saying both sides acted irresponsibly. That’s a fact. Hopefully we’ll all be better prepared for the next one.
lol both sides please tell me the sides or teams you speak of? Who will take responsibility for saving the world I’m asking a question..
I wasn’t defending trump. I’m just showing how completely unprepared everyone was and how neither side took this seriously until it was too late. And of course he’ll claim he saved the world. We’re in the middle of it and all he does is talking about the terrific job he’s doing. It’s old news. His actions don’t shock or surprise me anymore.
Here is my take. Most of the Western World did not do a good job with this. But....There is only one US President right now. There is only one WHite House Administration right now. There is only one Republican controlled Senate.
It is the President's job to lead, and then people follow. The governors were left to fend for themselves and took the lead from the WHite House that this wasn't a big deal and was an impeachment hoax. The different government organizations take the lead from the administration. You can say everyone was unprepared, but there was information out there in Dec/Jan and the leader/party that is in power and asked for votes so they could be in power and in-charge failed to act soon enough. If someone that works for me fails to start a project and the client gets mad, they are calling me because it is my fault and failure to lead.
Sure, we were unprepared before Trump took office. But there were two months practically that the US failed to lead and take action.
Not trying to poke the bear, but in all fairness the only thing the Democrats were focused on was the ongoing impeachment when the initial news broke. Not saying this is their fault, just stating that they had their minds elsewhere as well. I do agree with many of your points.
***This is not an endorsement for trump***
Do you think they were wrong to impeach him over the Ukraine bullshit?
Stop, not here, let's not do this!
Corona type shit on this thread or it will really go more sideways than it already has...
You're right, that's a conversation for another thread.
My point was, the legislative branch was literally doing their job by impeaching him.
If they were to pause the proceedings to address the COVID19 crisis, we can all imagine how that would have played out.
There is only one side here - get beyond this with as little life lost as possible, with as much left of the world economy as possible.
In the US there is only one person in charge. The buck stops there. That same person holds the Senate so nothing is making it through without that person's party supporting it.
So tired of the deflection.
Someone slap this grandstanding idiot back to reality and tell him to lead. Stop arguing with people quoting the idiotic things you say back to you. Stop measuring the audience size of your updates on this terror filled situation against reality TV and football ratings. Grow the fuck up.
I can't believe all of the people who have anything good to say about this piece of crap. We all should be angry - it doesn't matter what you think about abortion or health care programs - this is about the continuation of American Life as we know it
Well said. He is in charge right now, for better or worse.
There is only one side here - get beyond this with as little life lost as possible, with as much left of the world economy as possible.
In the US there is only one person in charge. The buck stops there. That same person holds the Senate so nothing is making it through without that person's party supporting it.
So tired of the deflection.
Someone slap this grandstanding idiot back to reality and tell him to lead. Stop arguing with people quoting the idiotic things you say back to you. Stop measuring the audience size of your updates on this terror filled situation against reality TV and football ratings. Grow the fuck up.
I can't believe all of the people who have anything good to say about this piece of crap. We all should be angry - it doesn't matter what you think about abortion or health care programs - this is about the continuation of American Life as we know it
But what this shows, again, is that Trump’s acceptance of reality (when it comes to mounting deaths) only goes so far: He will continue to employ his magical reality-bending powers to mask his own previous failures to whatever degree he can.
That project rests heavily on the idea, as Conway put it, that this crisis was “unanticipated.” But that’s verifiable nonsense.
“It was only unexpected to people who chose not to pay attention — meaning Trump and a White House that has consistently downplayed and marginalized preparedness and readiness for exactly this scenario,” Jeremy Konyndyk, a senior fellow at the Center for Global Development, told me.
All of that failure is well documented. But importantly, the emerging posture — in which no error can be acknowledged in Trump’s response — threatens the country going forward.
“It’s not merely misleading — it’s actively damaging to the response," Konyndyk told me. “One of the core principles of good disaster management is you have to be able to recognize and correct mistakes.”
“If the president’s perfect decision-making is the first principle from which everything else originates, that dynamic is a huge handicap,” Konyndyk continued. “It makes it really hard to rapidly acknowledge and correct errors.”
Can we quarantine Team Trump Treason at Mar-I-Lieo and let the governors and experts lead the charge? Please?
Thank you, I was really starting to need a Giesecke update!
No problems. He will lead us all through this!
Isn't he the guy who favors gatherings of 50 or more people? Why is he so much more right than all the other scientists around the world who favor sheltering at home and social distancing?
Don't know what he has said regarding 50 or more people. But this is what he said when we had our first ban, of 500 people:
Johan Giesecke also criticizes the government's decision to ban public gatherings with more than 500 people.
- If you believe in that kind of measure, there should be fewer in each group.
How many then?
- 10-25, somewhere there.
and
Sweden's decision to stop public gatherings of more than 500 people is "a half-measure" and its effectiveness can be called into question. This is stated by the infection protection expert and former state epidemiologist Johan Giesecke in SVT's Aktuellt.
- If you want to do that, I think you should have a little smaller groups, he says.
The statement came in comparison with how other countries have acted, where, among other things, Finland and Denmark set the limit for a maximum of ten people.
However, Giesecke emphasizes that there is no science on which number of constraints is best. Denmark previously had a limit of a maximum of 100 people, but it was changed to ten during Tuesday.
Unless they are children, of course. If they are children then let them snot and spit and cough all over each other. Because...science?
But Johan Giesecke, professor emeritus at the Karolinska Institute, adviser to the WHO and former state epidemiologist is not particularly worried about infection in preschool and school environments.
- There are things pointing to children not being very contagious. There are no studies on this, that is hard to do. But WHO had a delegation in China a month ago, where they asked doctors and epidemiologists if they knew of cases where a child had infected an adult, none of them could recall such a case. On a scientific basis, that in itself is quite thin. But there has also been no outbreak in Chinese schools - and if children were heavily infected, they would have seen school outbreaks, says Johan Giesecke to the Teachers' Journal.
Doctors and nurses in several countries have been reported to be seriously ill, something DN, among others, has told us about. One thesis is that those exposed to large viral doses are at higher risk of serious illness. Teachers and preschool teachers also meet many sick children under normal circumstances.
- In a normal classroom, with a child who is infected, there is no great danger. What is really dangerous is to intubate people, to stab a tube in the throat of those who need to be cared for in a respirator. A lot of virus particles are produced there. But in a larger room, the particles are diluted and do not go that far. I don't consider that being in close contact or in contact for a long time either. A close contact is to sit next to someone for several hours on an airplane, says Johan Giesecke.
How worried should one be as a teacher in preschool or school? - No need to worry. Most people who work in preschool and school are young and healthy people. For them it is not a huge risk, it is as good to get infected as you are rid of it (@rgambs). It is a completely different matter for the elderly, where it is important not to spread infection to the homes of the elderly. But spreading infection among children and young healthy adults is no danger, says Johan Giesecke.
Yeah, that is a profoundly idiotic statement that will be the discredit of his entire career. When this is all over and thousands or tens of thousands of children and young healthy adults are gone from the world, I hope he gets held to task and ostracized from the world's scientific community.
So how many lethal school outbreaks have there been in China according to you? How many are happening in Sweden right now?
How many healthy adults and elderly people have been infected by community spread through school-aged children? We will never know. Children are known to be carriers and less likely to know so, due to a lower incidence of severe symptoms. You've got your Johan Giesecke, and then there's almost literally every other expert in the world...you're like a climate change denier swimming against the tide stuttering about the Sun and outlier results.
Haven't seen him urging the elders to hang around kids. But please point me to a source, and I might reconsider Johan M.
"Prime Minister Stefan Löfven, has urged Swedes to behave “as adults” and not to spread “panic or rumours”.
Panic, though, is exactly what many within Sweden’s scientific and medical community are starting to feel. A petition signed by more than 2,000 doctors, scientists, and professors last week – including the chairman of the Nobel Foundation, ProfCarl-Henrik Heldin – called on the government to introduce more stringent containment measures. “We’re not testing enough, we’re not tracking, we’re not isolating enough – we have let the virus loose,” said Prof Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, a virus immunology researcher at the Karolinska Institute. “They are leading us to catastrophe.”"
Thank you, I was really starting to need a Giesecke update!
No problems. He will lead us all through this!
Isn't he the guy who favors gatherings of 50 or more people? Why is he so much more right than all the other scientists around the world who favor sheltering at home and social distancing?
Don't know what he has said regarding 50 or more people. But this is what he said when we had our first ban, of 500 people:
Johan Giesecke also criticizes the government's decision to ban public gatherings with more than 500 people.
- If you believe in that kind of measure, there should be fewer in each group.
How many then?
- 10-25, somewhere there.
and
Sweden's decision to stop public gatherings of more than 500 people is "a half-measure" and its effectiveness can be called into question. This is stated by the infection protection expert and former state epidemiologist Johan Giesecke in SVT's Aktuellt.
- If you want to do that, I think you should have a little smaller groups, he says.
The statement came in comparison with how other countries have acted, where, among other things, Finland and Denmark set the limit for a maximum of ten people.
However, Giesecke emphasizes that there is no science on which number of constraints is best. Denmark previously had a limit of a maximum of 100 people, but it was changed to ten during Tuesday.
Unless they are children, of course. If they are children then let them snot and spit and cough all over each other. Because...science?
But Johan Giesecke, professor emeritus at the Karolinska Institute, adviser to the WHO and former state epidemiologist is not particularly worried about infection in preschool and school environments.
- There are things pointing to children not being very contagious. There are no studies on this, that is hard to do. But WHO had a delegation in China a month ago, where they asked doctors and epidemiologists if they knew of cases where a child had infected an adult, none of them could recall such a case. On a scientific basis, that in itself is quite thin. But there has also been no outbreak in Chinese schools - and if children were heavily infected, they would have seen school outbreaks, says Johan Giesecke to the Teachers' Journal.
Doctors and nurses in several countries have been reported to be seriously ill, something DN, among others, has told us about. One thesis is that those exposed to large viral doses are at higher risk of serious illness. Teachers and preschool teachers also meet many sick children under normal circumstances.
- In a normal classroom, with a child who is infected, there is no great danger. What is really dangerous is to intubate people, to stab a tube in the throat of those who need to be cared for in a respirator. A lot of virus particles are produced there. But in a larger room, the particles are diluted and do not go that far. I don't consider that being in close contact or in contact for a long time either. A close contact is to sit next to someone for several hours on an airplane, says Johan Giesecke.
How worried should one be as a teacher in preschool or school? - No need to worry. Most people who work in preschool and school are young and healthy people. For them it is not a huge risk, it is as good to get infected as you are rid of it (@rgambs). It is a completely different matter for the elderly, where it is important not to spread infection to the homes of the elderly. But spreading infection among children and young healthy adults is no danger, says Johan Giesecke.
Yeah, that is a profoundly idiotic statement that will be the discredit of his entire career. When this is all over and thousands or tens of thousands of children and young healthy adults are gone from the world, I hope he gets held to task and ostracized from the world's scientific community.
So how many lethal school outbreaks have there been in China according to you? How many are happening in Sweden right now?
How many healthy adults and elderly people have been infected by community spread through school-aged children? We will never know. Children are known to be carriers and less likely to know so, due to a lower incidence of severe symptoms. You've got your Johan Giesecke, and then there's almost literally every other expert in the world...you're like a climate change denier swimming against the tide stuttering about the Sun and outlier results.
Haven't seen him urging the elders to hang around kids. But please point me to a source, and I might reconsider Johan M.
"Prime Minister Stefan Löfven, has urged Swedes to behave “as adults” and not to spread “panic or rumours”.
Panic, though, is exactly what many within Sweden’s scientific and medical community are starting to feel. A petition signed by more than 2,000 doctors, scientists, and professors last week – including the chairman of the Nobel Foundation, ProfCarl-Henrik Heldin – called on the government to introduce more stringent containment measures. “We’re not testing enough, we’re not tracking, we’re not isolating enough – we have let the virus loose,” said Prof Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, a virus immunology researcher at the Karolinska Institute. “They are leading us to catastrophe.”"
Thank you, I was really starting to need a Giesecke update!
No problems. He will lead us all through this!
Isn't he the guy who favors gatherings of 50 or more people? Why is he so much more right than all the other scientists around the world who favor sheltering at home and social distancing?
Don't know what he has said regarding 50 or more people. But this is what he said when we had our first ban, of 500 people:
Johan Giesecke also criticizes the government's decision to ban public gatherings with more than 500 people.
- If you believe in that kind of measure, there should be fewer in each group.
How many then?
- 10-25, somewhere there.
and
Sweden's decision to stop public gatherings of more than 500 people is "a half-measure" and its effectiveness can be called into question. This is stated by the infection protection expert and former state epidemiologist Johan Giesecke in SVT's Aktuellt.
- If you want to do that, I think you should have a little smaller groups, he says.
The statement came in comparison with how other countries have acted, where, among other things, Finland and Denmark set the limit for a maximum of ten people.
However, Giesecke emphasizes that there is no science on which number of constraints is best. Denmark previously had a limit of a maximum of 100 people, but it was changed to ten during Tuesday.
Unless they are children, of course. If they are children then let them snot and spit and cough all over each other. Because...science?
But Johan Giesecke, professor emeritus at the Karolinska Institute, adviser to the WHO and former state epidemiologist is not particularly worried about infection in preschool and school environments.
- There are things pointing to children not being very contagious. There are no studies on this, that is hard to do. But WHO had a delegation in China a month ago, where they asked doctors and epidemiologists if they knew of cases where a child had infected an adult, none of them could recall such a case. On a scientific basis, that in itself is quite thin. But there has also been no outbreak in Chinese schools - and if children were heavily infected, they would have seen school outbreaks, says Johan Giesecke to the Teachers' Journal.
Doctors and nurses in several countries have been reported to be seriously ill, something DN, among others, has told us about. One thesis is that those exposed to large viral doses are at higher risk of serious illness. Teachers and preschool teachers also meet many sick children under normal circumstances.
- In a normal classroom, with a child who is infected, there is no great danger. What is really dangerous is to intubate people, to stab a tube in the throat of those who need to be cared for in a respirator. A lot of virus particles are produced there. But in a larger room, the particles are diluted and do not go that far. I don't consider that being in close contact or in contact for a long time either. A close contact is to sit next to someone for several hours on an airplane, says Johan Giesecke.
How worried should one be as a teacher in preschool or school? - No need to worry. Most people who work in preschool and school are young and healthy people. For them it is not a huge risk, it is as good to get infected as you are rid of it (@rgambs). It is a completely different matter for the elderly, where it is important not to spread infection to the homes of the elderly. But spreading infection among children and young healthy adults is no danger, says Johan Giesecke.
Yeah, that is a profoundly idiotic statement that will be the discredit of his entire career. When this is all over and thousands or tens of thousands of children and young healthy adults are gone from the world, I hope he gets held to task and ostracized from the world's scientific community.
So how many lethal school outbreaks have there been in China according to you? How many are happening in Sweden right now?
How many healthy adults and elderly people have been infected by community spread through school-aged children? We will never know. Children are known to be carriers and less likely to know so, due to a lower incidence of severe symptoms. You've got your Johan Giesecke, and then there's almost literally every other expert in the world...you're like a climate change denier swimming against the tide stuttering about the Sun and outlier results.
Haven't seen him urging the elders to hang around kids. But please point me to a source, and I might reconsider Johan M.
"Prime Minister Stefan Löfven, has urged Swedes to behave “as adults” and not to spread “panic or rumours”.
Panic, though, is exactly what many within Sweden’s scientific and medical community are starting to feel. A petition signed by more than 2,000 doctors, scientists, and professors last week – including the chairman of the Nobel Foundation, ProfCarl-Henrik Heldin – called on the government to introduce more stringent containment measures. “We’re not testing enough, we’re not tracking, we’re not isolating enough – we have let the virus loose,” said Prof Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, a virus immunology researcher at the Karolinska Institute. “They are leading us to catastrophe.”"
Thank you, I was really starting to need a Giesecke update!
No problems. He will lead us all through this!
Isn't he the guy who favors gatherings of 50 or more people? Why is he so much more right than all the other scientists around the world who favor sheltering at home and social distancing?
Don't know what he has said regarding 50 or more people. But this is what he said when we had our first ban, of 500 people:
Johan Giesecke also criticizes the government's decision to ban public gatherings with more than 500 people.
- If you believe in that kind of measure, there should be fewer in each group.
How many then?
- 10-25, somewhere there.
and
Sweden's decision to stop public gatherings of more than 500 people is "a half-measure" and its effectiveness can be called into question. This is stated by the infection protection expert and former state epidemiologist Johan Giesecke in SVT's Aktuellt.
- If you want to do that, I think you should have a little smaller groups, he says.
The statement came in comparison with how other countries have acted, where, among other things, Finland and Denmark set the limit for a maximum of ten people.
However, Giesecke emphasizes that there is no science on which number of constraints is best. Denmark previously had a limit of a maximum of 100 people, but it was changed to ten during Tuesday.
Unless they are children, of course. If they are children then let them snot and spit and cough all over each other. Because...science?
But Johan Giesecke, professor emeritus at the Karolinska Institute, adviser to the WHO and former state epidemiologist is not particularly worried about infection in preschool and school environments.
- There are things pointing to children not being very contagious. There are no studies on this, that is hard to do. But WHO had a delegation in China a month ago, where they asked doctors and epidemiologists if they knew of cases where a child had infected an adult, none of them could recall such a case. On a scientific basis, that in itself is quite thin. But there has also been no outbreak in Chinese schools - and if children were heavily infected, they would have seen school outbreaks, says Johan Giesecke to the Teachers' Journal.
Doctors and nurses in several countries have been reported to be seriously ill, something DN, among others, has told us about. One thesis is that those exposed to large viral doses are at higher risk of serious illness. Teachers and preschool teachers also meet many sick children under normal circumstances.
- In a normal classroom, with a child who is infected, there is no great danger. What is really dangerous is to intubate people, to stab a tube in the throat of those who need to be cared for in a respirator. A lot of virus particles are produced there. But in a larger room, the particles are diluted and do not go that far. I don't consider that being in close contact or in contact for a long time either. A close contact is to sit next to someone for several hours on an airplane, says Johan Giesecke.
How worried should one be as a teacher in preschool or school? - No need to worry. Most people who work in preschool and school are young and healthy people. For them it is not a huge risk, it is as good to get infected as you are rid of it (@rgambs). It is a completely different matter for the elderly, where it is important not to spread infection to the homes of the elderly. But spreading infection among children and young healthy adults is no danger, says Johan Giesecke.
Yeah, that is a profoundly idiotic statement that will be the discredit of his entire career. When this is all over and thousands or tens of thousands of children and young healthy adults are gone from the world, I hope he gets held to task and ostracized from the world's scientific community.
So how many lethal school outbreaks have there been in China according to you? How many are happening in Sweden right now?
How many healthy adults and elderly people have been infected by community spread through school-aged children? We will never know. Children are known to be carriers and less likely to know so, due to a lower incidence of severe symptoms. You've got your Johan Giesecke, and then there's almost literally every other expert in the world...you're like a climate change denier swimming against the tide stuttering about the Sun and outlier results.
Haven't seen him urging the elders to hang around kids. But please point me to a source, and I might reconsider Johan M.
"Prime Minister Stefan Löfven, has urged Swedes to behave “as adults” and not to spread “panic or rumours”.
Panic, though, is exactly what many within Sweden’s scientific and medical community are starting to feel. A petition signed by more than 2,000 doctors, scientists, and professors last week – including the chairman of the Nobel Foundation, ProfCarl-Henrik Heldin – called on the government to introduce more stringent containment measures. “We’re not testing enough, we’re not tracking, we’re not isolating enough – we have let the virus loose,” said Prof Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, a virus immunology researcher at the Karolinska Institute. “They are leading us to catastrophe.”"
Comments
dont speak out about dangerous working conditions you could be out in the streets, man oh man..
Won't a union get involved to help them?
For all you pro-business people out there, do businesses, and States for that matter, like manufacturers, food stores, hardware, healthcare, you name it, routinely overstock their supply rooms and warehouses? Anyone in supply chain management? What has the mantra been for decades now? "Just in time inventory/delivery," right? So, who is responsible for the 100 or 150 year flood, forest fires or other natural disasters or pandemic? FEMA or the feds, right? And which political party has demonized the role of the federal government in providing for the common good and tried to starve it to death with tax cuts? And which Administration has left hundreds, if not thousands, of Executive Branch positions unfilled? Read up on the FEMA and CDC's lack of direction and decision making because of unfilled positions and the lack of experience of those who were appointed to fill positions. Team Trump Treason and most of the folks in his administration have not a clue as to what levers are available to them, never mind pull, in times of normalcy and particularly in a crises. And they don't listen to the experts anyway.
"Heckuva job, Brownie."
If the US re-elects this idiot in chief after this is over, there is no hope for making "things better," and you better be prepared to live in a "shit hole country."
Anything/Anybody other than Team Trump Treason 2020.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Here is my take. Most of the Western World did not do a good job with this. But....There is only one US President right now. There is only one WHite House Administration right now. There is only one Republican controlled Senate.
It is the President's job to lead, and then people follow. The governors were left to fend for themselves and took the lead from the WHite House that this wasn't a big deal and was an impeachment hoax. The different government organizations take the lead from the administration. You can say everyone was unprepared, but there was information out there in Dec/Jan and the leader/party that is in power and asked for votes so they could be in power and in-charge failed to act soon enough. If someone that works for me fails to start a project and the client gets mad, they are calling me because it is my fault and failure to lead.
Sure, we were unprepared before Trump took office. But there were two months practically that the US failed to lead and take action.
"Look at the bizarre situationen we wind up in"
-- I guess tax funded healthcare really is that much superior.
But hey, take over your private companies communist-style instead.
How about buying swedish quality CUOMOOOOO
https://www.getinge.com/int/products/hospital/mechanical-ventilation/
I feel you. I had to drop off laundry yesterday. I live in NYC and laundromats are essential for all of us with no laundry rooms in our building. The laundromat I went to only has drop off service now. You can't use the machines yourself. She was only letting one person in at a time to drop off the laundry. When I was in there - two other people were waiting outside to come in. Today when I pick my laundry up I will be wearing gloves. When I get home, I will leave the laundry bag on the floor and not touch it to remove my clothes for about 2 days. Living like this is like some bizarre alternative universe. It is very scary. It will be very hard to get back to normal after this. I can't even imagine getting on a crowded subway again without having a panic attack.
In the US there is only one person in charge. The buck stops there. That same person holds the Senate so nothing is making it through without that person's party supporting it.
So tired of the deflection.
Someone slap this grandstanding idiot back to reality and tell him to lead. Stop arguing with people quoting the idiotic things you say back to you. Stop measuring the audience size of your updates on this terror filled situation against reality TV and football ratings.
Grow the fuck up.
I can't believe all of the people who have anything good to say about this piece of crap. We all should be angry - it doesn't matter what you think about abortion or health care programs - this is about the continuation of American Life as we know it
I found this interesting.
Chinese wet markets and bad meat eating bats and shit?? or was this just 20 years in the making? Yuck!!
In many cases that would be old people.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/30/health/coronavirus-lower-death-rate/index.html
Do you think they were wrong to impeach him over the Ukraine bullshit?
Corona type shit on this thread or it will really go more sideways than it already has...
You're right, that's a conversation for another thread.
My point was, the legislative branch was literally doing their job by impeaching him.
If they were to pause the proceedings to address the COVID19 crisis, we can all imagine how that would have played out.
What a shitshow.
Be well, all.
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
Fuckin A.
Trump’s acceptance of reality is selective
On a conference call with governors on Monday, Trump was pressed by Montana Gov. Steve Bullock about his state’s dire need for more testing equipment.
“I haven’t heard about testing in weeks,” Trump claimed, as a leaked audiotape of the call revealed. “I haven’t heard about testing being a problem.”
This is a ludicrous lie: Governors have been frantically demanding new testing equipment for some time. Investigative reporting has documented an extraordinary string of failures on the Trump administration’s part leading to current shortages. Those in turn spawned a “lost month” that helped allow the coronavirus to rampage out of control, with untold horrors ahead.
But what this shows, again, is that Trump’s acceptance of reality (when it comes to mounting deaths) only goes so far: He will continue to employ his magical reality-bending powers to mask his own previous failures to whatever degree he can.
That project rests heavily on the idea, as Conway put it, that this crisis was “unanticipated.” But that’s verifiable nonsense.
“It was only unexpected to people who chose not to pay attention — meaning Trump and a White House that has consistently downplayed and marginalized preparedness and readiness for exactly this scenario,” Jeremy Konyndyk, a senior fellow at the Center for Global Development, told me.
Trump vastly minimized the crisis in real time for weeks and weeks, at a time when his own health-care officials, as well as members of Congress and outside experts, were frantically doing the opposite, badly hampering the federal response.
Indeed, the Obama administration handed off a series of projected dire pandemic scenarios to the Trump administration as part of the transition, and it’s now overwhelmingly evident that none of those were taken to heart.
Trump’s pathologies threaten future damage
All of that failure is well documented. But importantly, the emerging posture — in which no error can be acknowledged in Trump’s response — threatens the country going forward.
“It’s not merely misleading — it’s actively damaging to the response," Konyndyk told me. “One of the core principles of good disaster management is you have to be able to recognize and correct mistakes.”
“If the president’s perfect decision-making is the first principle from which everything else originates, that dynamic is a huge handicap,” Konyndyk continued. “It makes it really hard to rapidly acknowledge and correct errors.”
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
"Prime Minister Stefan Löfven, has urged Swedes to behave “as adults” and not to spread “panic or rumours”.
Panic, though, is exactly what many within Sweden’s scientific and medical community are starting to feel. A petition signed by more than 2,000 doctors, scientists, and professors last week – including the chairman of the Nobel Foundation, Prof Carl-Henrik Heldin – called on the government to introduce more stringent containment measures. “We’re not testing enough, we’re not tracking, we’re not isolating enough – we have let the virus loose,” said Prof Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, a virus immunology researcher at the Karolinska Institute. “They are leading us to catastrophe.”"
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/catastrophe-sweden-coronavirus-stoicism-lockdown-europe
If you give a reasoned response, and back it up with facts; he'll call you a tough guy and say you have a bad attitude too.
Hampton 2016